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(Inquisitr)   Neil deGrasse Tyson, First Galatic Emperor of Earth, believes that asteroid mining will help prevent future wars and conflicts over access to terrestrial resources, once space becomes 'our' backyard   ( inquisitr.com) divider line
    More: Interesting, Asteroid, asteroid mining, Asteroid mining, Michio Kaku, Neil deGrasse Tyson, Goldman Sachs, Space exploration, states Goldman Sachs  
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547 clicks; posted to Geek » on 22 Apr 2018 at 2:08 PM (16 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2018-04-22 12:20:08 PM  
Prevent wars? That will START wars!
 
2018-04-22 12:43:50 PM  
He hates Pluto.
 
2018-04-22 12:44:53 PM  
I think he's absolutely right. The next wars will be over access to extra-terrestrial resources.
 
2018-04-22 12:51:04 PM  
I'll let him know he's been crowned "Galatic Emperor."  He'll be impressed.
 
2018-04-22 12:54:52 PM  
He must think he's some kind of badass over there.
 
2018-04-22 12:59:03 PM  
Emperor Norton I of San Francisco once decreed that a bridge be built between Oakland and San Francisco. No one took him seriously at the time

/There's a bridge there now
//Just sayin'
 
2018-04-22 02:02:48 PM  
Not in MY backyard!
 
2018-04-22 02:14:25 PM  

bughunter: I'll let him know he's been crowned "Galatic Emperor."  He'll be impressed.


img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2018-04-22 02:15:19 PM  
Sounds like he wants to be a belter.

\Don't let him get the protomolecule...
 
2018-04-22 02:15:31 PM  
The first company to create successful asteroid mining technology will also be the first company to strategically place armed craft throughout the belt to deter competitors.
 
2018-04-22 02:19:13 PM  

GardenWeasel: Prevent wars? That will START wars!


Doubtful.  There are lots of the damn things floating around the Solar System.  Fighting over any particular one is absurdly wasteful when you can just go locate another one.  And they ought to each provide years of materials.

Yes, there will always be territorial asshats, but space is farking huge.  Asteroids don't all clump in a tight band like scifi shows and artists depict.  In general, you can barely discern any of an asteroid's closest neighbors from it, even in the asteroid belt.  Deciding "I'm gonna own all the asteroids" would entail a simply absurd amount of men and material to canvas that much space, much of which has jack-all in it.  Your price per cubic kilometer would be huge, much more than what you would gain from the asteroids over any but the most massive time-scales.  Trundling out and snagging one under your nose would be laughable easy unless you are willing to bankrupt a small planet to guard everything like a hawk.
 
2018-04-22 02:19:18 PM  
While I think it's right and inevitable that some asteroid mining will be done, there's more than technical issues to work out.   Our planetary economy is built on relative scarcity of various resources. How we integrate a new and inexhaustible resource supply into that without catastrophic economic disruption is the question. We're at each other's throats over steel and aluminum production now, for example. Now suddenly dump a hundred year's worth of nickel-iron production into the mix, and the bottom drops out of the market. What happens next? If steel becomes dirt-cheap, cheaper than plastic, what new markets for it will open up, and what markets will fail?  What does that do to the employment levels? Can harvesting an asteroid's resources spark wars here?   Look at diamond cartels for one possible reaction. This is the untidy part we don't usually want to think about in asteroid mining discussions, but it has to be figured out.
 
2018-04-22 02:24:37 PM  
Well, that's the Nessus Mining Station project.
What about the Sky Hydroponics Lab and the Orbital Power Transmitters?
 
2018-04-22 02:24:44 PM  

Esroc: The first company to create successful asteroid mining technology will also be the first company to strategically place armed craft throughout the belt to deter competitors.


It may be the first to fail at that.  The Asteroid Belt is several times the volume of the Earth's entire orbit.  To effectively cover that much space to a density needed to assure control would pretty much use up the resources you are extracting - or at least a hefty percentage of them.  And if you think you are just going to space them every couple thousand kilometers, realize that means you will detect the bad guy on Monday, get in range to fire on him on Thursday, and the missile will get to him two Fridays later - assuming he decides to sit in one place with a big neon sign blinking over his ship.
 
2018-04-22 02:27:13 PM  
Trillionaire? Folks, by the time this becomes an issue capitalism itself will be old hat. Why continue to keep score when you've won the Great Game of Capitalism?

A few thousand humans will live on earth or in LEO in untold luxury and idleness, having delegated to robot servants capable of doing any task humans can do the job of conquering the galaxy, mostly to satisfy the Inheritors' egos, as they will no longer have any competition for the wealth of the solar system.

No dreams of their own, perfectly predictable fuel and maintenance needs, no more thought of their unalienable rights than they have of having babies...when the class war ends, with total capitalist victory, robots will make far better New Socialist Men than humans ever could.

Bring those resources back to earth? To do what, make toys for an ungrateful human proletariat long since surplus to requirements? When the jobs horses could do better than machines disappeared, so did almost all the horses. When robots can do anything human proles can do, so will the proles.

An age in which robots mine asteroids to gather the wherewithal to conquer the galaxy will offer their human predecessors eternal rest from all their hard work, in a mass grave they once called Earth.

Don't say you weren't warned.
 
2018-04-22 02:28:03 PM  
I wonder if leading public-sphere intellectuals of the time thought that about the New World...
 
2018-04-22 02:30:01 PM  
Yeah, that always goes well.
vignette.wikia.nocookie.netView Full Size
 
2018-04-22 02:30:23 PM  
Do you want Aliens?

img.fark.netView Full Size


Cuz this is how you get Aliens.
 
2018-04-22 02:30:52 PM  
If there's money to be made in this (assuming no drastic reduction in launch/recovery costs) it'll be in LEO slot leasing, because it will look like a Walmart parking lot on Saturday.
 
2018-04-22 02:34:27 PM  

Esroc: The first company to create successful asteroid mining technology will also be the first company to strategically place armed craft throughout the belt to deter competitors.


Build Downbelow Station.
 
2018-04-22 02:36:52 PM  

Any Pie Left: What happens next? If steel becomes dirt-cheap, cheaper than plastic, what new markets for it will open up, and what markets will fail?  What does that do to the employment levels? Can harvesting an asteroid's resources spark wars here?   Look at diamond cartels for one possible reaction. This is the untidy part we don't usually want to think about in asteroid mining discussions, but it has to be figured out.


Oh there is a worse one.  Energy.  Traveling far to harvest one resource is trading one resource for another.  In this case, you get back minerals but you need a source of the rocket fuel you need to get there and back.
Sci-fi shows regularly skip over this, with starships having practically unlimited fuel unless the plot demands it, but in real life-ships need fuel.  Then there is the matter of getting the resources back into the atmosphere in bulk quantities, unless you also intend to establish an orbital forge (more energy and another easy target for rivals) and only ship back finished items instead of trying to lower tons of waste weight.
What about regulation?  On the planetary high seas, there's enough regulatory evasion going on as it is:  see "flag of convenience" for what cargo ship owners will do to ensure that they can treat their employees however they please, duck taxes and regulations, etc.  Imagine that in space.  Will there be a deep space government run rescue service?
 
2018-04-22 02:40:24 PM  

Ishidan: Any Pie Left: What happens next? If steel becomes dirt-cheap, cheaper than plastic, what new markets for it will open up, and what markets will fail?  What does that do to the employment levels? Can harvesting an asteroid's resources spark wars here?   Look at diamond cartels for one possible reaction. This is the untidy part we don't usually want to think about in asteroid mining discussions, but it has to be figured out.

Oh there is a worse one.  Energy.  Traveling far to harvest one resource is trading one resource for another.  In this case, you get back minerals but you need a source of the rocket fuel you need to get there and back.
Sci-fi shows regularly skip over this, with starships having practically unlimited fuel unless the plot demands it, but in real life-ships need fuel.  Then there is the matter of getting the resources back into the atmosphere in bulk quantities, unless you also intend to establish an orbital forge (more energy and another easy target for rivals) and only ship back finished items instead of trying to lower tons of waste weight.
What about regulation?  On the planetary high seas, there's enough regulatory evasion going on as it is:  see "flag of convenience" for what cargo ship owners will do to ensure that they can treat their employees however they please, duck taxes and regulations, etc.  Imagine that in space.  Will there be a deep space government run rescue service?


Quit harshing our pseudoscience buzz, man!
 
2018-04-22 02:40:48 PM  

phalamir: Doubtful. There are lots of the damn things floating around the Solar System. Fighting over any particular one is absurdly wasteful when you can just go locate another one. And they ought to each provide years of materials.


It wouldn't be that hard to protect/defend the location where those materials would be delivered. Just look for incoming objects to earth.  The earth's Lagrange points will be the place to setup camp.
 
2018-04-22 02:41:21 PM  

BalugaJoe: Esroc: The first company to create successful asteroid mining technology will also be the first company to strategically place armed craft throughout the belt to deter competitors.

Build Downbelow Station.


You mean Pell Station .
 
2018-04-22 02:43:59 PM  
vignette.wikia.nocookie.netView Full Size


He stole that idea from McKay.
 
2018-04-22 02:46:16 PM  

BalugaJoe: He hates Pluto.


He hate Pluto 2:  Electric Boogaloo
 
2018-04-22 02:46:48 PM  
I'm sure all those single men in China and India will sign right up to mine for women.
 
2018-04-22 02:55:28 PM  
The problem with all these astronomical (pun intended) valuations for these asteroids is that they are all based on current market values for these rare earth metals.

But if anyone actually does succeed in harvesting and returning to earth the precious metals from one of these things, those valuations will instantly change.  Current market values are based on their relative scarcity - once a massive new supply of these metals is introduced to the market, the value of that commodity will plummet.

Not saying it isn't still worth doing.  I just think the valuations put on these things are inherently worthless.
 
2018-04-22 02:59:27 PM  
Why should we trust scientists to predict matters of state?

In the 1990s, a bunch of us network geeks were predicting that the Internet would bring a future of enlightenment and anonymity. Instead, the nutjobs found each other while Google and Facebook watched. (i.e. We didn't know what we were talking about.)

Ask an economist, and you'll learn that trillions of dollars of platinum won't be worth that much when you dump it all on the market.

Mining space isn't a bad idea, but don't put too much faith in people who predict the future.
 
2018-04-22 03:05:40 PM  
Two words:

Space pirates.
 
2018-04-22 03:12:09 PM  

phalamir: GardenWeasel: Prevent wars? That will START wars!

Doubtful.  There are lots of the damn things floating around the Solar System.  Fighting over any particular one is absurdly wasteful when you can just go locate another one.  And they ought to each provide years of materials.

Yes, there will always be territorial asshats, but space is farking huge.  Asteroids don't all clump in a tight band like scifi shows and artists depict.  In general, you can barely discern any of an asteroid's closest neighbors from it, even in the asteroid belt.  Deciding "I'm gonna own all the asteroids" would entail a simply absurd amount of men and material to canvas that much space, much of which has jack-all in it.  Your price per cubic kilometer would be huge, much more than what you would gain from the asteroids over any but the most massive time-scales.  Trundling out and snagging one under your nose would be laughable easy unless you are willing to bankrupt a small planet to guard everything like a hawk.


You wouldn't guard the belt itself, you'd set up a guard much closer to earth and intercept anyone with a trajectory that takes them out to the belt.
 
2018-04-22 03:13:51 PM  
I don't see any mention of the most precious resource we can mine from asteroids, which (by the time we have the technology) will be clean water ice.
 
2018-04-22 03:15:08 PM  

Ishidan: Any Pie Left: What happens next? If steel becomes dirt-cheap, cheaper than plastic, what new markets for it will open up, and what markets will fail?  What does that do to the employment levels? Can harvesting an asteroid's resources spark wars here?   Look at diamond cartels for one possible reaction. This is the untidy part we don't usually want to think about in asteroid mining discussions, but it has to be figured out.

Oh there is a worse one.  Energy.  Traveling far to harvest one resource is trading one resource for another.  In this case, you get back minerals but you need a source of the rocket fuel you need to get there and back.
Sci-fi shows regularly skip over this, with starships having practically unlimited fuel unless the plot demands it, but in real life-ships need fuel.  Then there is the matter of getting the resources back into the atmosphere in bulk quantities, unless you also intend to establish an orbital forge (more energy and another easy target for rivals) and only ship back finished items instead of trying to lower tons of waste weight.
What about regulation?  On the planetary high seas, there's enough regulatory evasion going on as it is:  see "flag of convenience" for what cargo ship owners will do to ensure that they can treat their employees however they please, duck taxes and regulations, etc.  Imagine that in space.  Will there be a deep space government run rescue service?


Doesn't sound like it would be much different than the state of terrestrial oceans in the 17th and 18th centuries.
 
2018-04-22 03:15:23 PM  

Any Pie Left: While I think it's right and inevitable that some asteroid mining will be done, there's more than technical issues to work out.   Our planetary economy is built on relative scarcity of various resources. How we integrate a new and inexhaustible resource supply into that without catastrophic economic disruption is the question. We're at each other's throats over steel and aluminum production now, for example. Now suddenly dump a hundred year's worth of nickel-iron production into the mix, and the bottom drops out of the market. What happens next? If steel becomes dirt-cheap, cheaper than plastic, what new markets for it will open up, and what markets will fail?  What does that do to the employment levels? Can harvesting an asteroid's resources spark wars here?   Look at diamond cartels for one possible reaction. This is the untidy part we don't usually want to think about in asteroid mining discussions, but it has to be figured out.


[wankingmotion.gif]
 
2018-04-22 03:16:40 PM  

Esroc: The first company to create successful asteroid mining technology will also be the first company to strategically place armed craft throughout the belt to deter competitors.


caskly.org
 
2018-04-22 03:23:29 PM  
Bro, do you even read (or watch) the Expanse?
 
2018-04-22 03:38:52 PM  

Doc Daneeka: The problem with all these astronomical (pun intended) valuations for these asteroids is that they are all based on current market values for these rare earth metals.

But if anyone actually does succeed in harvesting and returning to earth the precious metals from one of these things, those valuations will instantly change.  Current market values are based on their relative scarcity - once a massive new supply of these metals is introduced to the market, the value of that commodity will plummet.

Not saying it isn't still worth doing.  I just think the valuations put on these things are inherently worthless.


Well, that's the difference between intrinsic and extrinsic value. Gold is a very useful semiconductor and malleable metal, but it's perceived (extrinsic) value is much higher than it should be. Same with diamonds. But we are running out of Lithium, which powers our current and foreseeable future. So what's valuable now may not be in the future.
 
2018-04-22 03:41:44 PM  

Ktonos: Sounds like he wants to be a belter.

\Don't let him get the protomolecule...


If the Guy's last name is Mao I'm going to be pretty suspicious.
 
2018-04-22 03:42:43 PM  

Any Pie Left: While I think it's right and inevitable that some asteroid mining will be done, there's more than technical issues to work out.   Our planetary economy is built on relative scarcity of various resources. How we integrate a new and inexhaustible resource supply into that without catastrophic economic disruption is the question.


Mine bitcoins, duh.
 
2018-04-22 04:18:15 PM  
Space mining, as done by the same companies who mine minerals or drill for oil on earth, cutting costs to the bone and ignoring legislation where it interferes with profit, is going to send at least one or two asteroids zooming in to earth every few years.

"It's a cost we have to pay, while exonspacemining makes a profit"
 
2018-04-22 05:10:02 PM  
But fear not, if humans are good at one thing that thing would be finding reasons to kill each other.
 
2018-04-22 05:22:16 PM  
I can't be the only one that is tired of this guy. He is increasingly becoming insufferable.

//appreciate what he is trying to accomplish, just sick of him personally.
 
2018-04-22 05:24:03 PM  
Sure, until the colonies rebel against Earth. Do you want Gundams? Because this is how you get Gundams.
 
2018-04-22 05:29:51 PM  

BalugaJoe: He hates Pluto.


Never forget.  Never forgive.
 
2018-04-22 05:34:51 PM  

phalamir: GardenWeasel: Prevent wars? That will START wars!

Doubtful.  There are lots of the damn things floating around the Solar System.  Fighting over any particular one is absurdly wasteful when you can just go locate another one.  And they ought to each provide years of materials.

Yes, there will always be territorial asshats, but space is farking huge.  Asteroids don't all clump in a tight band like scifi shows and artists depict.  In general, you can barely discern any of an asteroid's closest neighbors from it, even in the asteroid belt.  Deciding "I'm gonna own all the asteroids" would entail a simply absurd amount of men and material to canvas that much space, much of which has jack-all in it.  Your price per cubic kilometer would be huge, much more than what you would gain from the asteroids over any but the most massive time-scales.  Trundling out and snagging one under your nose would be laughable easy unless you are willing to bankrupt a small planet to guard everything like a hawk.


So, you're saying that corporate/national interests wouldn't keep track of competing mining sites and blow the shiat out of them just to stymie their rivals? You just said that there's too much free resources in space to fight over, meaning that fighting in space will be wars of attrition to prevent the other guy from gathering said resources and benefiting. Because it's all a zero-sum game now; if someone else is prospering, you're losing.

/i.e., the problem isn't availability of resources; the problem is humanity sucks.
 
2018-04-22 05:35:49 PM  

GardenWeasel: Prevent wars? That will START wars!


Will it?  How much platinum do you really need?
 
2018-04-22 05:46:53 PM  

Ishidan: Any Pie Left: What happens next? If steel becomes dirt-cheap, cheaper than plastic, what new markets for it will open up, and what markets will fail?  What does that do to the employment levels? Can harvesting an asteroid's resources spark wars here?   Look at diamond cartels for one possible reaction. This is the untidy part we don't usually want to think about in asteroid mining discussions, but it has to be figured out.

Oh there is a worse one.  Energy.  Traveling far to harvest one resource is trading one resource for another.  In this case, you get back minerals but you need a source of the rocket fuel you need to get there and back.
Sci-fi shows regularly skip over this, with starships having practically unlimited fuel unless the plot demands it, but in real life-ships need fuel.  Then there is the matter of getting the resources back into the atmosphere in bulk quantities, unless you also intend to establish an orbital forge (more energy and another easy target for rivals) and only ship back finished items instead of trying to lower tons of waste weight.
What about regulation?  On the planetary high seas, there's enough regulatory evasion going on as it is:  see "flag of convenience" for what cargo ship owners will do to ensure that they can treat their employees however they please, duck taxes and regulations, etc.  Imagine that in space.  Will there be a deep space government run rescue service?


In real life we can also make fuel from water, a plentiful resource in space. There are also propulsion methods like solar sails which don't require fuel for propulsion, but which work off the sun. Energy won't be a phenomenally huge issue.
 
2018-04-22 06:27:19 PM  
HAHAHAHA, he thinks wars are actually the product of failures of resource distribution...
 
2018-04-22 06:31:05 PM  
Right. New wars never start upon the discovery of something valuable.
 
2018-04-22 06:32:54 PM  

phalamir: Yes, there will always be territorial asshats, but space is farking huge


"Asshats in Space" could be a band name or a movie by Mel Brooks.
 
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