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(War is Boring)   In a fight between a Russian T-90 tank and an American M-1A2 Abrams, victory goes to the better crew. Or perhaps the one that has a bunch of friends in A-10s, but that's not the point   ( warisboring.com) divider line
    More: Interesting, T-90, Tank, M-1A2 SEP v3, Shtora, Armoured warfare, Russia, Vehicle armour, Anti-tank guided missile  
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9034 clicks; posted to Main » on 16 Apr 2018 at 5:35 PM (22 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2018-04-16 02:38:00 PM  
Better crew usually wins has been known since WWII.  Check out the Battle of Arracourt, a small US armored force defeated a much larger German tank force which included a significant number of Panthers.  Also, post-war analysis by the British and Americans showed that the most important factor in who won a tank engagement was who fired first.

Myths of American Armor. TankFest Northwest 2015
Youtube bNjp_4jY8pY
 
2018-04-16 03:50:44 PM  

Polish Hussar: Better crew usually wins has been known since WWII.  Check out the Battle of Arracourt, a small US armored force defeated a much larger German tank force which included a significant number of Panthers.  Also, post-war analysis by the British and Americans showed that the most important factor in who won a tank engagement was who fired first.

[Youtube-video https://www.youtube.com/embed/bNjp_4jY​8pY?start=1799]


Yeah, but at Arracourt the US forces had a significant number of M18 tank destroyers, and you just know those guys were all slinging gold rounds with four skill crews.
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2018-04-16 04:04:01 PM  
The T-90M also appears to feature increased creature comforts, including air-conditioning units.

T-34 designers are spinning in their graves.
 
2018-04-16 04:20:24 PM  

ZAZ: The T-90M also appears to feature increased creature comforts, including air-conditioning units.

T-34 designers are spinning in their graves.


And now for your amusement, a 6'5" Irishman attempting to egress from a T-34-85's driver's position. "Oh bugger, the tank is on fire:"

Inside the Chieftain's Hatch T-34-85: Part 2
Youtube Nem_Zc51ksg
 
2018-04-16 05:39:22 PM  
The Battle of Arracourt involved those Panzer Brigades. They were trash, just pure tank formations made up of green crews. Its no wonder they lost.
 
2018-04-16 05:41:29 PM  
Tanks for the article .
 
2018-04-16 05:41:45 PM  
"oh no sir we're completly surrounded by enemy tanks!!"

"Just back into cover here and hold on a second"

BRRRRRRRRRRT!!!!

"OK let's move along, problem solved."
 
2018-04-16 05:42:28 PM  
Maybe true in a one-on-one engagement, but a battalion-on-battalion engagement would be decisively won by the American armor, and brigade-on-brigade including artillery and infantry would be a bloodbath. Add tactical air and forget-about-it.
 
2018-04-16 05:43:57 PM  

Polish Hussar: the most important factor in who won a tank engagement was who fired first.


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2018-04-16 05:45:59 PM  
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2018-04-16 05:47:06 PM  
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Also....

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2018-04-16 05:47:33 PM  
img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2018-04-16 05:48:11 PM  

lordargent: Polish Hussar: the most important factor in who won a tank engagement was who fired first.

[img.fark.net image 850x446]


Thanks, but no tanks.
 
2018-04-16 05:50:33 PM  
Mighty nice tank ya got there. Shame if anything hap-

img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2018-04-16 05:56:52 PM  
I hope this stays theoretical.
 
2018-04-16 05:57:02 PM  

Polish Hussar: ZAZ: The T-90M also appears to feature increased creature comforts, including air-conditioning units.

T-34 designers are spinning in their graves.

And now for your amusement, a 6'5" Irishman attempting to egress from a T-34-85's driver's position. "Oh bugger, the tank is on fire:"

[Youtube Nem_Zc51ksg image 480x270][Youtube-video https://www.youtube.com/embed/Nem_Zc51​ksg]


Holy fark, that's claustraphobic.
 
2018-04-16 05:57:54 PM  
If the United States was actually serious about an effective defense we would have already built a new plant to manufacture A-10A1s, new from the tires up built with current tech to the same philosophy as the originals.
 
2018-04-16 06:00:09 PM  
US no challange RUS plasma armor coming soon with supaer turbo lazar system US finished Putin/RUS win 100%!!111!!!!
 
2018-04-16 06:01:39 PM  
I've killed hundreds of tasks using only a motorcycle

/In battlefield 4
//Loaded with C4
///I'm a dick like that.
 
2018-04-16 06:02:15 PM  
Tanks even...
 
2018-04-16 06:04:36 PM  

ZAZ: The T-90M also appears to feature increased creature comforts, including air-conditioning units.

T-34 designers are spinning in their graves.


The T-90 fights in Syria. The T-34 was designed for Ukraine.
 
2018-04-16 06:04:41 PM  
Yeah, but what about Iraqi monkey M-1's against Syrian T55's and T64's? That's the battle we want to enjoy!  Or against Persian Chieftains!
 
2018-04-16 06:06:16 PM  

Jeff5: If the United States was actually serious about an effective defense we would have already built a new plant to manufacture A-10A1s, new from the tires up built with current tech to the same philosophy as the originals.


If it came to gloves-off fighting, we'd probably deploy a shiatload of drones carrying hellfires.
 
2018-04-16 06:06:41 PM  

dj495ufj3: I've killed hundreds of tasks using only a motorcycle

/In battlefield 4
//Loaded with C4
///I'm a dick like that.


I miss that game. 
I hate BF1. If you're going to make a game about WW1, you have to limit the availability of automatic weapons. The game is just people running around with automatic weapons. I wanted a game where everyone had a bolt action. I haven't played it since laungh.
 
2018-04-16 06:08:13 PM  

Jeff5: If the United States was actually serious about an effective defense we would have already built a new plant to manufacture A-10A1s, new from the tires up built with current tech to the same philosophy as the originals.


Yes, but instead we have interservice rivalries (with the Air Force in charge...of protecting Army tanks...) and Congress critters with their eyes on money for their districts.

So we get a zoomie plane built by whoever can biatch the most.
 
2018-04-16 06:11:08 PM  

This text is now purple: Jeff5: If the United States was actually serious about an effective defense we would have already built a new plant to manufacture A-10A1s, new from the tires up built with current tech to the same philosophy as the originals.

If it came to gloves-off fighting, we'd probably deploy a shiatload of drones carrying hellfires.


For close air support nothing beats an on station pilot with lots of ordnance and the ability to accurately deliver it. Hellfire drones would be useful against armor not yet in contact, but if it's in range of arty they could probably be as useful as spotters as anything.

If the Air Force doesn't want the new A-10s the Army can fly them.
 
2018-04-16 06:11:46 PM  
I am not surprised they'd be a match since Russia steals every decent idea the USA ever had.
I mean, it's probably an identical copy with stupid writing on the controls labels.
 
2018-04-16 06:11:53 PM  
T-90 is not amused...

img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2018-04-16 06:16:01 PM  
I should know better than to read articles trying to better myself, unless I have some basic idea of the specialties involved.  This article read like this to me:

"The 113-BigAz tank sites are thermally juvenated to propel a 440/com sic on the battlefield unless retrofitted with the 44RcomBiteMe, which has proven effective on most underwater engagements in which large monk fish were present, but unable to coagulate its fritters with the Romanian made 73BlowUpgud shells that were heretofore present in most combats, saving those held on days of White Sales."

I'm not complaining. I just feel like a total nimrod when I try to comprehend something so totally beyond me.
 
2018-04-16 06:16:09 PM  
H.R. McMasters

ring any bells?
 
2018-04-16 06:18:28 PM  
The Hills Are Alive With The Sound Of BRRRRRRT
Youtube ySuixFGIfbE
 
2018-04-16 06:20:10 PM  
Coming down to a gunfight, both tanks likely could penetrate each other

pre00.deviantart.netView Full Size
 
2018-04-16 06:21:32 PM  
Well since Russia can afford about 3 1/2 T-90's let's just say the M1 wins.
 
2018-04-16 06:27:34 PM  

albuquerquehalsey: Coming down to a gunfight, both tanks likely could penetrate each other

[pre00.deviantart.net image 850x606]


Stragest erection.jpg
 
2018-04-16 06:31:17 PM  
IEDs for the win
 
2018-04-16 06:32:08 PM  
I'm picking the M1A2 Abrams.
 In many one on one situations, the better crew wins, but most tank engagements in the modern era are massive battles involving artillery, air-support, and infantry. Russia can make all the claims they want about their aircraft and tanks and guns, but the US wins when it comes to battle tactics.
 
2018-04-16 06:32:30 PM  
"T-90S in Turkmenistan".

img.fark.netView Full Size


I see Turkmenistan is procuring their officers' caps from North Korea.
 
2018-04-16 06:33:40 PM  

albuquerquehalsey: Coming down to a gunfight, both tanks likely could penetrate each other

[pre00.deviantart.net image 850x606]

img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2018-04-16 06:36:10 PM  

albuquerquehalsey: Coming down to a gunfight, both tanks likely could penetrate each other

[pre00.deviantart.net image 850x606]


More evidence of rule #34
 
2018-04-16 06:37:31 PM  

eyeq360: I'm picking the M1A2 Abrams.
 In many one on one situations, the better crew wins, but most tank engagements in the modern era are massive battles involving artillery, air-support, and infantry. Russia can make all the claims they want about their aircraft and tanks and guns, but the US wins when it comes to battle tactics.


Yeah, modern battles are combined arms affairs.  Whoever can best coordinate everything they have is going to win.
 
2018-04-16 06:47:34 PM  
Oh, and bad news on the A-10 front, we might be losing up to a third of the fleet in the near future.
 
2018-04-16 06:48:48 PM  
I would tend to favor the M-1 as the armor layout and quality seems higher. One should note too that the M-1 would not be the only probable opponent for the Russian. Italy, France, Germany and England field high class armor.
But before I worried too much about it on the battlefield I would want a couple of Western Armor experts to examine it. I recall the Russians showing off a tank that was going to be then next world beater. It was not really a tank, or even a prototype. The closest relatives it had were the balloon tanks used by the Allies in WWII to deceive the Germans. The 'turret' on the tank was black painted plywood.
 
2018-04-16 06:52:16 PM  
Combat Doctrine  USA =never reveals what we have only what we no longer use, Russa = we be gona get this an that and then some more of those yeah comrad.
 
2018-04-16 06:54:21 PM  

meanmutton: Polish Hussar: ZAZ: The T-90M also appears to feature increased creature comforts, including air-conditioning units.

T-34 designers are spinning in their graves.

And now for your amusement, a 6'5" Irishman attempting to egress from a T-34-85's driver's position. "Oh bugger, the tank is on fire:"

[Youtube Nem_Zc51ksg image 480x270][Youtube-video https://www.youtube.com/embed/Nem_Zc51​ksg]

Holy fark, that's claustraphobic.


I've been inside a T-55 and I'm 5'10". Good thing I'm still in good shape to get in and out through the drivers hatch. The ammo rack is next to the driver to my right. Later tanks like the T-62s and later tanks were just as tight. Imagine trying to get out of that if you're lucky to glimps that RPG headed your way. Oops too late. Pop goes the turret
 
2018-04-16 06:59:04 PM  

Dangerous_sociopath: [img.fark.net image 537x639]

Also....

[img.fark.net image 625x500]


Is that harold ramis?
 
2018-04-16 06:59:39 PM  
Someone posted a link in another one of these threads about an engagement in Iraq where some special force group called in a special weapon on a dig in bunch of vehicles etc in a ridge line. They dropped some special bomb that was really a bunch of tiny bombs that were all smart enough to pick a different target (some moving). It was the first time in a long time I took notice and was like that's insane. Insane the tech works, that some One conceived of it and that it worked that well in live fire.

America we are still really really good at killing things
 
2018-04-16 06:59:45 PM  
And the better crew is the one who's nation can afford the simulation time, training time, and field exercises that it takes to improve.  The The M-1 came out in 1979,  M1A2 is like 35 years old, the T-90 came out in 1989.
 
2018-04-16 07:05:26 PM  
Russia and America are the same thing now
 
2018-04-16 07:07:18 PM  

BigKaboom: meanmutton: Polish Hussar: ZAZ: The T-90M also appears to feature increased creature comforts, including air-conditioning units.

T-34 designers are spinning in their graves.

And now for your amusement, a 6'5" Irishman attempting to egress from a T-34-85's driver's position. "Oh bugger, the tank is on fire:"

[Youtube Nem_Zc51ksg image 480x270][Youtube-video https://www.youtube.com/embed/Nem_Zc51​ksg]

Holy fark, that's claustraphobic.

I've been inside a T-55 and I'm 5'10". Good thing I'm still in good shape to get in and out through the drivers hatch. The ammo rack is next to the driver to my right. Later tanks like the T-62s and later tanks were just as tight. Imagine trying to get out of that if you're lucky to glimps that RPG headed your way. Oops too late. Pop goes the turret


Oh, he's wedged himself inside a T-55 as well:

Inside the Chieftain's Hatch: T-55A Part 2
Youtube AD13Z8DlS4A

I can't remember where I heard this, and I have no idea if it's true, but I remember something about how the Soviet military had a 5'8" height limit for its tank crewmen.  They wanted tanks with a low silhouette, and that's one of the ways they achieved it.
 
2018-04-16 07:07:58 PM  

BigKaboom: meanmutton: Polish Hussar: ZAZ: The T-90M also appears to feature increased creature comforts, including air-conditioning units.

T-34 designers are spinning in their graves.

And now for your amusement, a 6'5" Irishman attempting to egress from a T-34-85's driver's position. "Oh bugger, the tank is on fire:"

[Youtube Nem_Zc51ksg image 480x270][Youtube-video https://www.youtube.com/embed/Nem_Zc51​ksg]

Holy fark, that's claustraphobic.

I've been inside a T-55 and I'm 5'10". Good thing I'm still in good shape to get in and out through the drivers hatch. The ammo rack is next to the driver to my right. Later tanks like the T-62s and later tanks were just as tight. Imagine trying to get out of that if you're lucky to glimps that RPG headed your way. Oops too late. Pop goes the turret


Good lord (does GIS for sexual innuendo ... hmmm ((realizes hmmm is a possible sexual innuendo and/or good technique)) uh, where was I, still in the parentheses? OK, results:)

i0.kym-cdn.comView Full Size


img.fark.netView Full Size
 
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