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(The Times of India)   Anyone up for a friendly Mediterranean diet thread on a Sunday? Bonus: it now helps to combat liver cirrhosis, so it's got that going for it, which is nice   ( economictimes.indiatimes.com) divider line
    More: Spiffy, Beer, liver cirrhosis, Bacteria, Brewing, Yoghurt, Nutrition, Kefir, microbial diversity  
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3359 clicks; posted to Main » on 15 Apr 2018 at 11:51 AM (34 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2018-04-15 09:28:26 AM  
Never Mediterranean who wasn't friendly
 
2018-04-15 09:59:26 AM  
img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2018-04-15 10:39:25 AM  
Yeah it's a good diet but only half of it (at most) is the food. Remember, the Greek word δίαιτα (diet) means 'way of living', not 'way of eating'.

(FWIW, my grandfather lived on Crete his whole life, ate this way, lots of physical labour and fresh air, and still died of total hepatic failure. You can't out-eat alcoholism.)
 
2018-04-15 11:45:47 AM  
I'm making this for dinner.  I'm such a trend setter.
 
2018-04-15 11:52:47 AM  
Nobody ever talks about genetics
 
2018-04-15 12:00:05 PM  
If anyone's interested in some actual resources about following a mediterranean diet, I recommend this organization:

https://oldwayspt.org/traditional-die​t​s/mediterranean-diet
 
2018-04-15 12:02:14 PM  
1 English cucumber, diced
3 Roma tomatoes, diced
1/2 red onion, diced
1 avocado, diced (sliced on top at the end)
Cilantro, chopped
1/2 squeezed lemon
Salt & pepper
Italian seasoning
1 tablespoon olive oil
Mix in a bowl
Top your plate with feta cheese
 
2018-04-15 12:04:51 PM  
img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2018-04-15 12:07:28 PM  
img.fark.netView Full Size


A nice gyro salad for lunch and I'm pretty much good to go for the rest of the day.
 
2018-04-15 12:07:58 PM  
I fight cirrhosis by being a pothead instead of an alcoholic.

/you're welcome?
 
2018-04-15 12:10:47 PM  
Time to go to the Mediterranean buffet

http://dimassi.com/
 
2018-04-15 12:11:13 PM  
If it fights liver damage, the difference in health between the French (Northern) and the Italian and Proveçal (Southern) are readily explained.

The liver is the French organ par excellence. All French people blame their liver for their suffering and a truly massive proportion do in fact manage to damage and mistreat their livers. But the Italians are not only more frugal and moderate in all things (being prudent narcissists and practical epicureans), they have mastered the art of drinking and eating even more than the French if such is possible. Fresh ingredients, lots of fruit and vegetables, lots of pasta but relatively little meat--everything associated with the Mediterranean diet is very Italian but not necessarily French. The French diet is rapidly approaching the Anglo-American or German diet.

The French eat and drink sensibly compared to the Northern bingers and "fuel-consumers", but less sensibly than Greeks, Italians and possibly even Spaniards.

Makes perfect sense. On the plus side, the French have cous-cous. The Arab-North African influence is strong and whole-some in French cuisine. I always say that cous-cous are the national dish of France, and I mean this is a good way although I think it is funny also.
 
2018-04-15 12:17:18 PM  

fragMasterFlash: [img.fark.net image 307x230]

A nice gyro salad for lunch and I'm pretty much good to go for the rest of the day.


Now, I am hungry.
 
2018-04-15 12:18:20 PM  
I just made a big pot of barley, kale, and bean soup for my lunch this week, so I'm getting a kick. Dinner is Greek flavored meatballs in a veggie bowl with tzatziki.
 
2018-04-15 12:18:58 PM  
My doctor told me to go on this, but I have no idea where to even begin.  I want to get healthy, are there any good sources for how to do it cheap when you are a terrible cook with very little time to prepare meals?
 
2018-04-15 12:19:50 PM  

winedrinkingman: My doctor told me to go on this, but I have no idea where to even begin.  I want to get healthy, are there any good sources for how to do it cheap when you are a terrible cook with very little time to prepare meals?


Also, I am on a bit of a fixed income, so I have to do it cheap.
 
2018-04-15 12:19:51 PM  
Can we stop posting bullshiat articles as fact, please?

There is a yawning chasm between "could" and "does", and this article contains nothing other than "we heard that a study drew a simple correlation between fermented dairy products in diet and a lower hospitalization risk for liver cirrhosis."

We go through this bullshiat on a regular basis, and it's articles like this that start stupid diet fad trends, only to discover that the simple correlation was nowhere near the vicinity of causation, and that the one study was either not peer-reviewed, or not reproducible, or had so much variation that it was practically random, or whatever. The reason that happens is because folks like this publish articles like these to get folks like you to click on shiat like this.

Some critical thinking and basic questioning would be nice.

"Have you actually read the study in question?"

The study doesn't say what the article says. The study's conclusions:

In this study of cirrhotic patients and healthy controls from USA and Turkey, a diet rich in fermented milk, vegetables, cereals, coffee and tea, is associated with a higher microbial diversity. Microbial diversity was associated with an independently lower risk of 90‐day hospitalizations.

Read closely - that says "We determined that A is associated with B in this study. We have observed that B is associated with C." The article says "the study determines that A could help C." They have merged the associations together, without understanding, to make a claim that even the study doesn't make.

"Have you ever heard of Dr. Jasmohan Bajaj before? How about the 'microbiome'?"

See, the good doctor wants to push "microbiome analysis", in which microorganism samples taken from saliva and stool samples are used to determine the likelihood of cirrhosis hospitalization. That's important, because it means that insurance providers could figure out well in advance whether you're a huge insurance risk, and he really wants to turn a buck off that. He's published studies for the past several years all based on that, like this study in 2015. that tries to link salivary microorganisms to gut microorganisms for folks with cirrhosis. In fact, if you follow up on this guy, you'll find his name on a bunch of stuff like that, for the last half-decade or so. You'll find a number of notes on such studies, too, indicating one or more conflicts of interest or other concerns, especially related to study funding sources.
 
2018-04-15 12:21:01 PM  
The risk of death from liver cirrhosis...driven primarily by alcohol consumption, the type and quality of alcohol consumed


I understand quality being an issue (impurities), but type? This seems significant.

Do they mean hard liquor vs wine or beer? Or is this a methyl vs ethyl comparison?

/ asking for a friend
 
2018-04-15 12:21:28 PM  
Instead of the usual spaghetti sauce, I make my own using olive oil, garlic, parsley, salt, and a little of the water from the boiled spaghetti. It's very tasty and healthier than the brand name stuff.
 
2018-04-15 12:22:17 PM  
And the only reason you're seeing this on The Times of India is that the guy's educated in India and works here in the U.S.
 
2018-04-15 12:23:08 PM  
I make my kotfa with ground chicken and turkey instead of lamb or beef. HTH.
 
2018-04-15 12:24:37 PM  

rzrwiresunrise: 1 English cucumber, diced
3 Roma tomatoes, diced
1/2 red onion, diced
1 avocado, diced (sliced on top at the end)
Cilantro, chopped
1/2 squeezed lemon
Salt & pepper
Italian seasoning
1 tablespoon olive oil
Mix in a bowl
Top your plate with feta cheese


Where's the food?
 
2018-04-15 12:26:41 PM  

winedrinkingman: winedrinkingman: My doctor told me to go on this, but I have no idea where to even begin.  I want to get healthy, are there any good sources for how to do it cheap when you are a terrible cook with very little time to prepare meals?

Also, I am on a bit of a fixed income, so I have to do it cheap.


Bagged salad. Make your own salad. Something something salad. Lamb.
 
TWX [TotalFark]
2018-04-15 12:27:27 PM  

winedrinkingman: winedrinkingman: My doctor told me to go on this, but I have no idea where to even begin.  I want to get healthy, are there any good sources for how to do it cheap when you are a terrible cook with very little time to prepare meals?

Also, I am on a bit of a fixed income, so I have to do it cheap.


In your grocery store, stop shopping in most of the middle aisles. Shop the outer walls and the sections immediately adjacent to them. That's where the butcher is, where the produce section is, etc.

Also see if your town has what used to be called a dented-can store. Basically a discount grocer. We have one here and buy most of our frozen foods there. Bulk chicken and beef and pork, much cheaper per-pound than at the regular grocery stores.

I'm attempting to figure out how your time is structured, because you maintain that you don't have a lot of time but then you maintain that you're on a fixed income. Normally those are somewhat mutually exclusive.
 
2018-04-15 12:30:35 PM  

winedrinkingman: winedrinkingman: My doctor told me to go on this, but I have no idea where to even begin.  I want to get healthy, are there any good sources for how to do it cheap when you are a terrible cook with very little time to prepare meals?

Also, I am on a bit of a fixed income, so I have to do it cheap.


Rice-based dishes are your friend. If you can afford the spices, learn how to cook Indian food. I can make a double-batch of chana masala out of a very  large onion, two tomatoes, two cans of chickpeas, some garlic and ginger, and powdered spices. It lasts me a week. Same with dal. Dirt cheap and very hearty. Most recipes are just a vegetable gravy that you put on rice. I rarely eat meat anymore. It's not for ethical reasons, I'm just a stingy bastardo.

Can't help with Mediterranean stuff, though. It was always too sour for my taste.
 
TWX [TotalFark]
2018-04-15 12:32:00 PM  

TWX: winedrinkingman: winedrinkingman: My doctor told me to go on this, but I have no idea where to even begin.  I want to get healthy, are there any good sources for how to do it cheap when you are a terrible cook with very little time to prepare meals?

Also, I am on a bit of a fixed income, so I have to do it cheap.

In your grocery store, stop shopping in most of the middle aisles. Shop the outer walls and the sections immediately adjacent to them. That's where the butcher is, where the produce section is, etc.

Also see if your town has what used to be called a dented-can store. Basically a discount grocer. We have one here and buy most of our frozen foods there. Bulk chicken and beef and pork, much cheaper per-pound than at the regular grocery stores.

I'm attempting to figure out how your time is structured, because you maintain that you don't have a lot of time but then you maintain that you're on a fixed income. Normally those are somewhat mutually exclusive.


I should also add, in most grocery stores, the middle aisles are where the prepackaged stuff is. This is where the foods with disproportionately high quantities of sugar or high fructose corn syrup are, or where they've worked hard to manipulate the recipe so that you feel you have to have it and you keep rebuying it. It's calorie-dense but we've learned that if you get the nutrients you need, you can often reduce actual calorie intake fairly substantially.

My local grocery store has a fairly substantial build-your-own-salad bar, with stuff like olives and cherry tomatoes on it. I've never used it but it looks like a lot of the stuff touted as being on the Mediterranean diet is there.
 
2018-04-15 12:37:08 PM  

winedrinkingman: winedrinkingman: My doctor told me to go on this, but I have no idea where to even begin.  I want to get healthy, are there any good sources for how to do it cheap when you are a terrible cook with very little time to prepare meals?

Also, I am on a bit of a fixed income, so I have to do it cheap.


Not mediteranian but cheap, tasty, and ez.  Red beans and rice:

soak 1 lb red or kidney beans overnight in salted water
put a big pot on medium heat, put some oil in it
dice a jalapeno, bell pepper and an onion, toss into pot
dice a clove or 3 of garlic, toss into pot
stir, cook until soft (3-4 minutes)
drain beans, dump into pot
add water to cover
add some cajun seasoning
add some tabasco or Frank's
do not add salt yet, it makes your beans burst as they cook
bring to a boil, reduce heat, simmer 2-4 hours until beans are almost done
dump 1/2 lb rice into the pot, add water as needed
cook another 20-40 minutes, depending on the rice used
add salt, stir, and enjoy

This should give you 4-5 meals.  You can also toss chicken breasts/thighs into the pot with the beans if you want.
 
2018-04-15 12:37:37 PM  

winedrinkingman: winedrinkingman: My doctor told me to go on this, but I have no idea where to even begin.  I want to get healthy, are there any good sources for how to do it cheap when you are a terrible cook with very little time to prepare meals?

Also, I am on a bit of a fixed income, so I have to do it cheap.


I'd start with beans, cucumbers, carrots, tomatoes and avocados (but those can be pricey. Dark greens like spinach. Broccoli, brussel sprouts and cauliflower are great for roasting. Mix and match everything to taste in olive oil, salt and pepper. Add a side of meat for more protein-and by side, I do mean side portion, like 2-4 ounces.
 
2018-04-15 12:41:03 PM  

winedrinkingman: winedrinkingman: My doctor told me to go on this, but I have no idea where to even begin.  I want to get healthy, are there any good sources for how to do it cheap when you are a terrible cook with very little time to prepare meals?

Also, I am on a bit of a fixed income, so I have to do it cheap.


dried beans. in giant bags. and cheap veggies- garlic, onions, celery, carrots in the fresh aisle, frozen peas, corn, green beans, lima beans, spinach, etc.
make sure to add some fruit in- fresh or frozen, whatever is cheapest.

buy some basic spices (anything that comes in large containers or private label is a good bet).
 
2018-04-15 12:48:15 PM  

ihateallofyou: rzrwiresunrise: 1 English cucumber, diced
3 Roma tomatoes, diced
1/2 red onion, diced
1 avocado, diced (sliced on top at the end)
Cilantro, chopped
1/2 squeezed lemon
Salt & pepper
Italian seasoning
1 tablespoon olive oil
Mix in a bowl
Top your plate with feta cheese

Where's the food?


In the seared butter-basted rib-eye.
 
2018-04-15 12:49:27 PM  

rzrwiresunrise: ihateallofyou: rzrwiresunrise: 1 English cucumber, diced
3 Roma tomatoes, diced
1/2 red onion, diced
1 avocado, diced (sliced on top at the end)
Cilantro, chopped
1/2 squeezed lemon
Salt & pepper
Italian seasoning
1 tablespoon olive oil
Mix in a bowl
Top your plate with feta cheese

Where's the food?

In the seared butter-basted rib-eye.


Ah. You left that part out. All I saw was salad dressing and garnish. Much better.
 
2018-04-15 12:51:08 PM  

ihateallofyou: rzrwiresunrise: ihateallofyou: rzrwiresunrise: 1 English cucumber, diced
3 Roma tomatoes, diced
1/2 red onion, diced
1 avocado, diced (sliced on top at the end)
Cilantro, chopped
1/2 squeezed lemon
Salt & pepper
Italian seasoning
1 tablespoon olive oil
Mix in a bowl
Top your plate with feta cheese

Where's the food?

In the seared butter-basted rib-eye.

Ah. You left that part out. All I saw was salad dressing and garnish. Much better.


The steak was a given. It's always the sides that are more complicated.
 
2018-04-15 12:52:00 PM  
Eat food. Not too much. Mostly plants.
 
2018-04-15 01:01:31 PM  
Seriously, for cheap and easy and mostly healthy I get Romaine lettuce, take a leaf or two and put tuna, cheese, maybe onion and peppers in the leaves and roll that shiat up. Add a side of rice if you want.
 
2018-04-15 01:04:36 PM  

ihateallofyou: Seriously, for cheap and easy and mostly healthy I get Romaine lettuce, take a leaf or two and put tuna, cheese, maybe onion and peppers in the leaves and roll that shiat up. Add a side of rice if you want.


That actually sounds awesome. Minus the cheese.
 
2018-04-15 01:05:10 PM  

FormlessOne: Can we stop posting bullshiat articles as fact, please?

There is a yawning chasm between "could" and "does", and this article contains nothing other than "we heard that a study drew a simple correlation between fermented dairy products in diet and a lower hospitalization risk for liver cirrhosis."

We go through this bullshiat on a regular basis, and it's articles like this that start stupid diet fad trends, only to discover that the simple correlation was nowhere near the vicinity of causation, and that the one study was either not peer-reviewed, or not reproducible, or had so much variation that it was practically random, or whatever. The reason that happens is because folks like this publish articles like these to get folks like you to click on shiat like this.

Some critical thinking and basic questioning would be nice.

"Have you actually read the study in question?"

The study doesn't say what the article says. The study's conclusions:

In this study of cirrhotic patients and healthy controls from USA and Turkey, a diet rich in fermented milk, vegetables, cereals, coffee and tea, is associated with a higher microbial diversity. Microbial diversity was associated with an independently lower risk of 90‐day hospitalizations.

Read closely - that says "We determined that A is associated with B in this study. We have observed that B is associated with C." The article says "the study determines that A could help C." They have merged the associations together, without understanding, to make a claim that even the study doesn't make.

"Have you ever heard of Dr. Jasmohan Bajaj before? How about the 'microbiome'?"

See, the good doctor wants to push "microbiome analysis", in which microorganism samples taken from saliva and stool samples are used to determine the likelihood of cirrhosis hospitalization. That's important, because it means that insurance providers could figure out well in advance whether you're a huge insurance risk, and he really wants to turn a buck of ...


Bingo.

Dear people of Earth: Nobody wants to hear about your amazing new diet and how it helps X, Z, or Y medical malady that most people will never experience in the first place. The only people willing to listen are the other asshandles that want their chance to tell YOU all about their amazing new diet.

Just eat a sensible amount of food and exercise a sensible amount. That's it. It's not that hard to stay fit. If you're overweight, blaming external factors is an exercise in staying fat. You can eat fast food every day and stay thin, if you just stop eating so goddamn much.

And yes, it really is THAT much. Multiple cheeseburgers and four pounds of french fries for lunch is not normal. That's more than a day's worth of calories. To precede that with a huge breakfast and follow it up with dinner? Disgusting amount of excess.

Just don't eat too much. In almost every case of obesity the problem isn't exercise, or what is being eaten, or any other factor - it's almost always purely the sheer amount of food being consumed that makes people obese.
 
2018-04-15 01:06:43 PM  

rzrwiresunrise: ihateallofyou: Seriously, for cheap and easy and mostly healthy I get Romaine lettuce, take a leaf or two and put tuna, cheese, maybe onion and peppers in the leaves and roll that shiat up. Add a side of rice if you want.

That actually sounds awesome. Minus the cheese.


You don't have to do cheese. I sometimes like adding some Havarti.
 
2018-04-15 01:06:57 PM  
I only eat Mediterrarean people.
 
2018-04-15 01:07:21 PM  

AquaTatanka: I fight cirrhosis by being a pothead instead of an alcoholic.

/you're welcome?


That just means you'll die of lung and mouth cancer. Weed isn't better, it's just different.
 
2018-04-15 01:07:50 PM  

FormlessOne: Can we stop posting bullshiat articles as fact, please?


img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2018-04-15 01:08:15 PM  

adj_m: I only eat Mediterrarean, people.



sry ftfm
 
2018-04-15 01:11:17 PM  

Aezetyr: That just means you'll die of lung and mouth cancer. Weed isn't better, it's just different.


The only evidence suggest that marijuana has a negative correlation with rates of cancer.

Yes, weed is actually physically better for you than alcohol. Not just different.
 
2018-04-15 01:14:46 PM  
Yeah, I'm not one for fad diets or supppsed health benefits. I just happen to really like the flavor profile of many traditional foods ranging from North Africa to the Levant and on around to Greece.

I highly recommend America's Test Kitchen Mediterranean cookbook.

It has some great recipes that are designed to be accessible for most home cooks, and they generally do a good job explaining why ingredients work and why certain process steps are used. I've found it's both a good book for immediately providing tasty recipes to try, and for providing a solid foundation on which to construct my own recipes.
 
2018-04-15 01:18:32 PM  

ihateallofyou: rzrwiresunrise: ihateallofyou: Seriously, for cheap and easy and mostly healthy I get Romaine lettuce, take a leaf or two and put tuna, cheese, maybe onion and peppers in the leaves and roll that shiat up. Add a side of rice if you want.

That actually sounds awesome. Minus the cheese.

You don't have to do cheese. I sometimes like adding some Havarti.


Ooh! See, you said cheese and I automatically thought American or cheddar. Hvarti sounds like it'd pair nicely...!
 
2018-04-15 01:23:59 PM  
Tuscan garlic chicken. Look up the recipe.
/you're welcome
 
2018-04-15 01:28:08 PM  

Wingchild: Eat food. Not too much. Mostly plants.


Came for this. Leaving happy.
 
2018-04-15 01:31:56 PM  

Leandros A: Yeah it's a good diet but only half of it (at most) is the food. Remember, the Greek word δίαιτα (diet) means 'way of living', not 'way of eating'.


This is a good point. In my family we often hold up my grandfather, who lived to 100, to be the perfect example of healthy living. He walked everywhere and ate everything in moderation. It helped that my grandmother cooked for him, but his typical lunch-time meal was a bowl of pasta, a piece of meat, vegetables and a glass of red wine (sometimes watered down with a sprite-like drink). Dessert was a piece of fruit, maybe some cheese and a few nuts (I remember walnuts, but maybe almonds or pistachios too.) Meals were often followed by an espresso for digestion.

Sweets were really only seen on special occasions.

The main take-aways from that was to eat slowly, eat fresh food (nothing processed), eat a variety of foods (mostly vegetables and fruits), and exercise regularly (even if it's just walking.)
 
2018-04-15 01:47:47 PM  
Dinner tonight is: 2 medium onions sliced very thinly, 5 cloves of garlic finely minced, 1/2 of a lemon, lime and orange thinly sliced on top of that, drizzle a bit of olive oil, salt, pepper on this-placed in a deep over proof dish with a bit of olive oil to keep that layer from sticking. Place on top of this a large slab-2 lbs., of farm raised salmon (wild caught does not work-gets really tough) which has been smeared with a mixture of 2 tablespoons of melted butter which has been mixed with, 2 teaspoons of thyme, 2 teaspoons of cardamon (ground) 1/2 teaspoon salt. Cover with heavy duty foil. Place in pre-heated 200 degree oven. Bake about 4 hours until tender.

This will be going into the oven in a half hour.

An excellent cook book "Cooking of the Eastern Mediterranean" by Paula Wolfert. It is not for beginners, the recipes take time to make, but very good.
  My Grandma showed me how to make lots of Middle Eastern dishes. We even picked, brined and stuffed grape leaves when I was a kid. Have some of her recipes-good home cooking. In the Summer, I almost always have in the fridge enough things to throw together for a Middle Eastern meal-hummus, fresh Tahini (when/if I can get it), ground lamb, pine nuts, prepped taziki, oil cured olives, drained yogurt. Easy to mix 'n match ingredients for dinner. It all sounds expensive-but, here's the thing "what you save in money, you spend in time". Use dried garbanzos (rehydrated of course) when you make the hummus, buy the pine nuts in bulk on sale, put in the freezer, same for the lamb, drained yogurt is done with a small piece of cheese cloth suspended over a bowl, taziki-as it gets low, throw in more cucumbers, it keeps forever. And so on...time to finish the salmon prep-ttfn.
 
2018-04-15 01:48:33 PM  

Leandros A: Yeah it's a good diet but only half of it (at most) is the food. Remember, the Greek word δίαιτα (diet) means 'way of living', not 'way of eating'.

(FWIW, my grandfather lived on Crete his whole life, ate this way, lots of physical labour and fresh air, and still died of total hepatic failure. You can't out-eat alcoholism.)


You can eat out an alcoholic though.
 
2018-04-15 01:49:59 PM  
Mediterranean is cool and all but let me tell you about Paleo and Crossfit
 
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