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(Cleveland Plain Dealer)   Conductor at the Metropolitan Opera fired for a pattern of angrily waving his baton at people   ( cleveland.com) divider line
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3218 clicks; posted to Main » on 13 Mar 2018 at 5:00 AM (31 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



27 Comments     (+0 »)
 
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2018-03-13 02:45:26 AM  
Last time...  Oh, wait, nevermind.  Last time I was kicked out of the opera I wasn't that offensive.
 
2018-03-13 02:46:45 AM  
You know what's the difference between him and the Cleveland Browns?

TFAThe Met did not release the specific findings of its investigation, which it said had included interviews with 70 people.

It doesn't take interviews with 70 people to get them to leave a Browns game.

/too soon?
 
2018-03-13 05:05:26 AM  
Chris Brown said that Levine had abused him

Now you know how it feels, buddy!!
 
2018-03-13 05:35:17 AM  
Conductor discharged? They must have failed to limit his electric personality.
 
2018-03-13 05:38:16 AM  
They say that have evidence?  Good.  Take him to court.  Prosecute him.  Jail him.  Otherwise your firing him over hearsay.

That is the trend I, and a lot of other people, are getting tired of.  You shouldn't have to be a celebrity to have the right to Due Process.  By all means punish the guilty - in a court of law.  That's what it's there for.
 
2018-03-13 05:45:29 AM  

NephilimNexus: They say that have evidence?  Good.  Take him to court.  Prosecute him.  Jail him.  Otherwise your firing him over hearsay.

That is the trend I, and a lot of other people, are getting tired of.  You shouldn't have to be a celebrity to have the right to Due Process.  By all means punish the guilty - in a court of law.  That's what it's there for.


It doesn't take a court of law to form an opinion and/or fire somebody.
People are fired every single day for all sorts of reasons, and there needs not be any law broken.
And that's before even getting into the "right to work" (right to fire anyone) states, where no reason need be given.
This guy isn't a special snowflake.
 
2018-03-13 05:59:17 AM  
This one time, at band camp, that guy over there made us play a game like musical chairs, but different. He's a very bad man.
 
2018-03-13 06:00:01 AM  

NephilimNexus: They say that have evidence?  Good.  Take him to court.  Prosecute him.  Jail him.  Otherwise your firing him over hearsay.

That is the trend I, and a lot of other people, are getting tired of.  You shouldn't have to be a celebrity to have the right to Due Process.  By all means punish the guilty - in a court of law.  That's what it's there for.


You didn't really think about that before you posted it, did you?
 
2018-03-13 06:02:43 AM  

Begoggle: NephilimNexus: They say that have evidence?  Good.  Take him to court.  Prosecute him.  Jail him.  Otherwise your firing him over hearsay.

That is the trend I, and a lot of other people, are getting tired of.  You shouldn't have to be a celebrity to have the right to Due Process.  By all means punish the guilty - in a court of law.  That's what it's there for.

It doesn't take a court of law to form an opinion and/or fire somebody.
People are fired every single day for all sorts of reasons, and there needs not be any law broken.
And that's before even getting into the "right to work" (right to fire anyone) states, where no reason need be given.
This guy isn't a special snowflake.


There are tons of simple people (we call them simple-tons) who actually think that there are not supposed to be any consequences for acts one cannot be criminally convicted of.
It's an odd, childlike mindset.
 
2018-03-13 06:53:20 AM  

Begoggle: And that's before even getting into the "right to work" (right to fire anyone) states, where no reason need be given.


That's not Right to Work, that's At Will Employment. Right to Work means you can't be forced to join a union (in other words, thou shalt not join a union).
 
2018-03-13 06:53:33 AM  
Why are the weenie-wagglers always so hideous?
 
2018-03-13 07:17:45 AM  

Abacus9: Begoggle: And that's before even getting into the "right to work" (right to fire anyone) states, where no reason need be given.

That's not Right to Work, that's At Will Employment. Right to Work means you can't be forced to join a union (in other words, thou shalt not join a union).


Er yeah, you're right, that's what I meant.
 
2018-03-13 07:26:53 AM  
jimhillmedia.comView Full Size
 
2018-03-13 07:55:55 AM  
He showed it to me, and I can confirm that it bends to the left.

img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2018-03-13 08:08:02 AM  
Meat Baton is the name of my Mannheim Steamroller cover orchestra.
 
2018-03-13 08:15:53 AM  

NephilimNexus: They say that have evidence?  Good.  Take him to court.  Prosecute him.  Jail him.  Otherwise your firing him over hearsay.

That is the trend I, and a lot of other people, are getting tired of.  You shouldn't have to be a celebrity to have the right to Due Process.  By all means punish the guilty - in a court of law.  That's what it's there for.


Um, there's plenty of conduct that's not criminally prosecutable but which is unethical and potentially civily actionable, is a corporation supposed to make their other employees suffer just because a criminal complaint can't be filed? Heck statute of limitations alone makes even the criminal parts of many of these stories a moot issue but should not stop an employer from firing a powerful employee who committed wrongs against other employees and who poses a significant ongoing hostile environment to the wronged parties.
 
2018-03-13 08:32:44 AM  

Abacus9: Begoggle: And that's before even getting into the "right to work" (right to fire anyone) states, where no reason need be given.

That's not Right to Work, that's At Will Employment. Right to Work means you can't be forced to join a union (in other words, thou shalt not join a union).


No,more like.  Thou salt join a union if you like. But if they're assholes feel free to tell them to fark off.
 
2018-03-13 08:49:48 AM  
img.fark.netView Full Size
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2018-03-13 08:57:22 AM  
Charles Dutoit is also out. It must be hard working around all those eager young ladies.
 
2018-03-13 09:13:22 AM  

robodog: Um, there's plenty of conduct that's not criminally prosecutable but which is unethical and potentially civily actionable, is a corporation supposed to make their other employees suffer just because a criminal complaint can't be filed?


You're right, people do get fired all the time for things that aren't legitimate crimes.  That's my point.

People complain about the government taking away their rights, but in reality their emoyers have been doing it for decades and getting away with it.  Why at they not held to the same rules & standards as the government?  Why should employment require consenting to waiving your rights?

If they've got evidence then prosecute him.  They've already nailed plenty of scumbags that way.  It's this crap of firing people at the accusation stage that I have a beef with.  Should be "temporarily suspended pending trial results."  That would be more fair.
 
2018-03-13 09:46:34 AM  

NephilimNexus: robodog: Um, there's plenty of conduct that's not criminally prosecutable but which is unethical and potentially civily actionable, is a corporation supposed to make their other employees suffer just because a criminal complaint can't be filed?

You're right, people do get fired all the time for things that aren't legitimate crimes.  That's my point.

People complain about the government taking away their rights, but in reality their emoyers have been doing it for decades and getting away with it.  Why at they not held to the same rules & standards as the government?  Why should employment require consenting to waiving your rights?

If they've got evidence then prosecute him.  They've already nailed plenty of scumbags that way.  It's this crap of firing people at the accusation stage that I have a beef with.  Should be "temporarily suspended pending trial results."  That would be more fair.


Because your employer doesn't have the power to shoot or imprison you. Again, the line between what is criminal and what is acceptable to your employer is a wide gulf, and should be. The state should not be able to lock you up for poor performance, but your employer should absolutely be able to fire you for it. If your employer conducts an investigation and determines that your character and the way you interact with your peers is not to their standards then that's more than sufficient to end your employment, in fact it's WAY more than you deserve under the law in every state that I am aware of.
 
2018-03-13 10:12:28 AM  

ZAZ: Charles Dutoit is also out. It must be hard working around all those eager young ladies.


It wasn't ladies. 

Such a shame that Levine is a creep because he was THE pre-eminent American conductor, who also did guest conducting at Salzburg and Bayreuth. His Ring Cycle was amazing.
 
2018-03-13 10:23:17 AM  

robodog: If your employer conducts an investigation and determines that your character and the way you interact with your peers is not to their standards then that's more than sufficient to end your employment, in fact it's WAY more than you deserve under the law in every state that I am aware of.


An attractive female schoolteacher has sex with underage male student and is fired.  OK, fine.  No problem.  She broke the law and is now fired & on her way to jail.  I'm fine with this, and if this was the standard process by which these things were dealt with I'd be fine with that, too.

But it isn't.

Attractive female teacher takes a selfie.  School finds out and she's fired.

Teacher goes to the bar on the weekend, someone takes a picture of her drinking a beer.  She's fired.

Teacher posts something on Facebook that the snowflake parents don't like.  She's fired.

Teacher gets married.  She's fired.

Maybe you're fine with employers firing people over things that aren't the least bit illegal, but I'm not OK with it and never will be.

img.fark.netView Full Size


Don't let history repeat itself.  If there was a crime then let there be a fair trial.  No trial, no justice.
 
2018-03-13 10:28:52 AM  

NephilimNexus: robodog: If your employer conducts an investigation and determines that your character and the way you interact with your peers is not to their standards then that's more than sufficient to end your employment, in fact it's WAY more than you deserve under the law in every state that I am aware of.

An attractive female schoolteacher has sex with underage male student and is fired.  OK, fine.  No problem.  She broke the law and is now fired & on her way to jail.  I'm fine with this, and if this was the standard process by which these things were dealt with I'd be fine with that, too.

But it isn't.

Attractive female teacher takes a selfie.  School finds out and she's fired.

Teacher goes to the bar on the weekend, someone takes a picture of her drinking a beer.  She's fired.

Teacher posts something on Facebook that the snowflake parents don't like.  She's fired.

Teacher gets married.  She's fired.

Maybe you're fine with employers firing people over things that aren't the least bit illegal, but I'm not OK with it and never will be.

[img.fark.net image 150x200]

Don't let history repeat itself.  If there was a crime then let there be a fair trial.  No trial, no justice.


Well then we fundamentally disagree about the relationship between employer and employee. My views are closer to those held by the majority of Americans so I doubt you're going to see things the way you want them within your lifetime. Hell, even in Europe the process followed by the the orchestra would be sufficient to allow an employer to release an employee.
 
2018-03-13 10:40:12 AM  
Peter Martins from the NYC Ballet left this year, too.

/I wonder how many farkers like ballet
 
2018-03-13 03:10:23 PM  
So, I guess the fat lady sang...
 
2018-03-13 03:24:31 PM  
Just determined to take all the perks of being a guy.
 
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