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(BBC-US)   God busy auditing the accounts from the Bookkeeper of Auschwitz   ( bbc.com) divider line
    More: News, Nazi Germany, Nazi SS guard, Auschwitz, German media report, Nazi war criminal, Lower Saxony, German broadcaster DW, appropriate medical supervision  
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8734 clicks; posted to Main » on 13 Mar 2018 at 12:20 AM (31 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2018-03-12 11:27:42 PM  
God can fark off for letting this guy have 96 years.
 
2018-03-12 11:36:28 PM  
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2018-03-13 12:14:00 AM  
I believe in both God and an afterlife, but I cannot reconcile the idea of Hell with my personal theology.   But I can accept the idea that when you go on to the next realm you gain a near perfect understanding of how your action in this life affected others and feel  them from  from their perspective with perfect clarity. To someone like a death camp participant that might feel like hell indeed
 
2018-03-13 12:21:59 AM  
Gröning: Life is hell.
 
2018-03-13 12:25:20 AM  
He lived to see Nazis having a nice resurgence in the US. That must be a comfort to him and his fellow conservatives.
 
2018-03-13 12:26:51 AM  
The meaning of pain. The way that I want you to die.
 
2018-03-13 12:30:01 AM  

davidphogan: God can fark off for letting this guy have 96 years.


Perhaps He was just letting him sweat out his life knowing the hereafter might be a bit unpleasant.
 
2018-03-13 12:30:06 AM  

Magorn: I believe in both God and an afterlife, but I cannot reconcile the idea of Hell with my personal theology.


It's a lot worse when you start to agree with Elder Zosima's thoughts on hell.
 
2018-03-13 12:31:26 AM  
At least he made us all smile with the Simpsons.

So he did some good with this life
 
2018-03-13 12:31:44 AM  
Did he cook the books?

/aisle seat, please
 
2018-03-13 12:32:08 AM  

davidphogan: God can fark off for letting this guy have 96 years.


The old bastard has had his reward. If that's any comfort.
 
2018-03-13 12:38:13 AM  

whither_apophis: Did he cook the books?

/aisle seat, please


You'll have to ask him when you meet him after making that comment haha. Good one
 
2018-03-13 12:39:36 AM  
How could a person not off themselves for such a role?
 
2018-03-13 12:45:26 AM  
He spent the last 30 years of his life fighting Holocaust deniers, I'm not sure if that balances anything out, but it should probably be at least mentioned here.

The fact that they put a sick 90 year old man through a show trial because they were out of monsters is more than a little disgusting in my mind.
 
2018-03-13 12:46:09 AM  

jaytkay: He lived to see Nazis having a nice resurgence in the US. That must be a comfort to him and his fellow conservatives.


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2018-03-13 12:53:38 AM  

7th Son of a 7th Son: The meaning of pain. The way that I want you to die.


Angel of accounting?
 
2018-03-13 12:55:25 AM  
Have they run out of old men to hassle?
 
2018-03-13 12:56:01 AM  

parrellel: He spent the last 30 years of his life fighting Holocaust deniers, I'm not sure if that balances anything out, but it should probably be at least mentioned here.

The fact that they put a sick 90 year old man through a show trial because they were out of monsters is more than a little disgusting in my mind.


The Farker was in the SS!  (They don't get much more "Monster" than that.)  How "disgusting" in your mind that he was an active participant in the deaths of at least 200,000 or more?  (There were approximately 1.1 Million killed at Auschwitz, but it is my understanding he was only there for the last year or so, so I'm just applying some statistics and math.)

What seems to be throwing so many is his nickname "the bookkeeper" as if that was his assignment or job at the death camp.  Much like the biker gang guy who is 6'4" and 260 lbs is known as "Tiny" the nickname really did not capture what the true nature of his job was.  He was responsible for overseeing the victims arriving, stealing all their possessions away from them and then processing them into the camp, where he knew they were going to die.  The reason for the "Bookkeeper" nickname was that he was the guy who kept the records of what was stolen (confiscated) from the inmates as the local SS group was supposed to split their loot with the upper branches along with the Nazi party bigwigs.  So, he had a personal stake in running his part of the show.

Fark him, fark his fellow SS and fark the Nazi's in general.  Anyone that was loyal enough to be in the SS is not anyone I could develop one ounce of pity.  Too bad that he didn't find himself hanging at the end of the rope as tens of thousands of these Nazi farks deserved to do after the war was over.
 
2018-03-13 12:56:08 AM  

parrellel: He spent the last 30 years of his life fighting Holocaust deniers, I'm not sure if that balances anything out, but it should probably be at least mentioned here.

The fact that they put a sick 90 year old man through a show trial because they were out of monsters is more than a little disgusting in my mind.


I don't know anything about this guy or what evidence they had on him, but I will say that I don't think being old or in poor health or both should get anyone a pass on crimes against humanity.

If someone is accused of shoplifting? Sure, lay off the poor guy. But where do you draw the line on that? For me, the line is way before you get to working at a place like Auschwitz.

I'm not religious and I think when we die that's it, our existence is over. That means this guy, as well as all dead Nazis and other assorted hated examples of humanity are resting as peacefully as any of us will. So he's got that going for him, which is nice.
 
2018-03-13 12:59:17 AM  
The banality of evil.
 
2018-03-13 01:01:57 AM  

parrellel: He spent the last 30 years of his life fighting Holocaust deniers, I'm not sure if that balances anything out, but it should probably be at least mentioned here.

The fact that they put a sick 90 year old man through a show trial because they were out of monsters is more than a little disgusting in my mind.


Oh, but the monsters tend to respawn. Sometimes in the form of fark commentators.
 
2018-03-13 01:03:06 AM  

wildcardjack: Have they run out of old men to hassle?


There's a reason why there's no Statute of Limitation on Murder.  One Million+ people were KILLED at Auschwitz and anyone who played a role in that..........whether they were caught and convicted as young men or old men, makes not a bit of difference.
 
2018-03-13 01:06:34 AM  
It's always been hard for me to reconcile these ones, much in the way it's been hard to come to a rational conclusion about Bill Cosby. Nazis (and rape artists) are bad. Hard stop. There is always a pang of something that hits me when they're so damn old though. I know it doesn't get any worse than the holocaust, but and age shouldn't have anything to do with anything, but I'm always just kind of weirded out by it.
 
2018-03-13 01:06:46 AM  
Arbeit macht fry.
 
2018-03-13 01:09:23 AM  
Leather
 
2018-03-13 01:10:50 AM  

lawboy87: parrellel: He spent the last 30 years of his life fighting Holocaust deniers, I'm not sure if that balances anything out, but it should probably be at least mentioned here.

The fact that they put a sick 90 year old man through a show trial because they were out of monsters is more than a little disgusting in my mind.

The Farker was in the SS!  (They don't get much more "Monster" than that.)  How "disgusting" in your mind that he was an active participant in the deaths of at least 200,000 or more?  (There were approximately 1.1 Million killed at Auschwitz, but it is my understanding he was only there for the last year or so, so I'm just applying some statistics and math.)

What seems to be throwing so many is his nickname "the bookkeeper" as if that was his assignment or job at the death camp.  Much like the biker gang guy who is 6'4" and 260 lbs is known as "Tiny" the nickname really did not capture what the true nature of his job was.  He was responsible for overseeing the victims arriving, stealing all their possessions away from them and then processing them into the camp, where he knew they were going to die.  The reason for the "Bookkeeper" nickname was that he was the guy who kept the records of what was stolen (confiscated) from the inmates as the local SS group was supposed to split their loot with the upper branches along with the Nazi party bigwigs.  So, he had a personal stake in running his part of the show.

Fark him, fark his fellow SS and fark the Nazi's in general.  Anyone that was loyal enough to be in the SS is not anyone I could develop one ounce of pity.  Too bad that he didn't find himself hanging at the end of the rope as tens of thousands of these Nazi farks deserved to do after the war was over.


You are 21, love your country, and enlist in the best unit you can. Because you have training as a bank clerk you are ordered to be a bookeeper. What would be the consequences of refusing? Would refusing actually make a difference and stop what was going to happen? It's really horrible, and a really unfortunate situation to be put into. No win for anyone. Guilty, yes. But that he was the only SS to speak out against holocaust deniers for 30 years counts for something, I think.
 
2018-03-13 01:10:53 AM  

parrellel: He spent the last 30 years of his life fighting Holocaust deniers, I'm not sure if that balances anything out, but it should probably be at least mentioned here.

The fact that they put a sick 90 year old man through a show trial because they were out of monsters is more than a little disgusting in my mind.


His trial pales in comparison to what he put countless others through.
 
2018-03-13 01:13:12 AM  
30 Years.  Fighting Holocaust Denial. Publicly.

The government knew exactly what he'd done decades ago, and they sat on it until he was over 90.  He was on the BBC about this stuff in the 80's.  There's no reason to tar and feather the man's corpse, when everything I've ever seen suggests he was trying to prevent what he did from ever happening again.

They wanted another win against a monster in the current political climate, and he was literally just standing there shouting to the world "We were monsters."

So yeah, pretty gross.
 
2018-03-13 01:16:16 AM  
Good?

Nothing of value was lost, and the souls of the murdered might rest easier now.
 
2018-03-13 01:17:11 AM  

parrellel: 30 Years.  Fighting Holocaust Denial. Publicly.



Well, when you're proud of your work...
 
2018-03-13 01:21:53 AM  
Not that anything the Nazis did made sense. But still, how could they reason for them to think that in theory Jewish people are so evil, that they have to be more evil than them?
 
2018-03-13 01:26:33 AM  

parrellel: He spent the last 30 years of his life fighting Holocaust deniers, I'm not sure if that balances anything out, but it should probably be at least mentioned here.

The fact that they put a sick 90 year old man through a show trial because they were out of monsters is more than a little disgusting in my mind.


Thankfully what you find "sick", and who is a "monster" isn't your call. There's no statute of limitations on murder(even being an accomplice), let alone genocide. Fark all SS and Nazi, and fark all those who would minimize the assembly line mass murder they committed.
 
2018-03-13 01:27:28 AM  

skinink: Not that anything the Nazis did made sense. But still, how could they reason for them to think that in theory Jewish people are so evil, that they have to be more evil than them?


Easy. They didn't believe that what they were doing was evil. It's frightening what people can rationalize.
 
2018-03-13 01:28:45 AM  

Porous Horace: parrellel: 30 Years.  Fighting Holocaust Denial. Publicly.


Well, when you're proud of your work...


I was going to make a comment about, "Have you ever heard Dan Fouts call a Chargers game that Philip Rivers is QB for?  Nobody wants to see their record broken."  Too soon.
 
2018-03-13 01:29:07 AM  

skinink: Not that anything the Nazis did made sense. But still, how could they reason for them to think that in theory Jewish people are so evil, that they have to be more evil than them?


It's not that they thought them murderous. It's that they thought them infectious.

And Germans were hardly alone in that thinking. Perhaps apocryphal, but apparently one of the more shocking things about the Holocaust to most Europeans was that it didn't originate in France.
 
2018-03-13 01:30:45 AM  
LiberalConservative:
You are 21, love your country, and enlist in the best unit you can. Because you have training as a bank clerk you are ordered to be a bookeeper. What would be the consequences of refusing? Would refusing actually make a difference and stop what was going to happen? It's really horrible, and a really unfortunate situation to be put into. No win for anyone. Guilty, yes. But that he was the only SS to speak out against holocaust deniers for 30 years counts for something, I think.

If the way they described it in the article is what happened I tend to agree with this perspective. We're frothing about the bookkeeper? All of you farkers were/are morons at the barely post-pubescent age of 21. Besides, I don't think they had whistle-blower protection laws in Nazi Germany. Hindsight is 20/20.
 
2018-03-13 01:35:25 AM  
He was 96. Doesn't quite seem the work of a swift and vengeful God.
 
2018-03-13 01:39:26 AM  

sat1va: LiberalConservative:
You are 21, love your country, and enlist in the best unit you can. Because you have training as a bank clerk you are ordered to be a bookeeper. What would be the consequences of refusing? Would refusing actually make a difference and stop what was going to happen? It's really horrible, and a really unfortunate situation to be put into. No win for anyone. Guilty, yes. But that he was the only SS to speak out against holocaust deniers for 30 years counts for something, I think.

If the way they described it in the article is what happened I tend to agree with this perspective. We're frothing about the bookkeeper? All of you farkers were/are morons at the barely post-pubescent age of 21. Besides, I don't think they had whistle-blower protection laws in Nazi Germany. Hindsight is 20/20.


It's a disingenuous comparison to say he "joined the best unit he could" like he was some Wermacht/Lutfwaffe draftee who chose to be in the paratroopers. The SS was a political organization as much as a military one, he knew what they believed in and what they were doing. Regretting it later doesn't change the law.
 
2018-03-13 01:40:03 AM  

davidphogan: God can fark off for letting this guy have 96 years.


96 years of freedom no less.
 
2018-03-13 01:41:42 AM  

sat1va: LiberalConservative:
You are 21, love your country, and enlist in the best unit you can. Because you have training as a bank clerk you are ordered to be a bookeeper. What would be the consequences of refusing? Would refusing actually make a difference and stop what was going to happen? It's really horrible, and a really unfortunate situation to be put into. No win for anyone. Guilty, yes. But that he was the only SS to speak out against holocaust deniers for 30 years counts for something, I think.

If the way they described it in the article is what happened I tend to agree with this perspective. We're frothing about the bookkeeper? All of you farkers were/are morons at the barely post-pubescent age of 21. Besides, I don't think they had whistle-blower protection laws in Nazi Germany. Hindsight is 20/20.


Yep, a good point. Unfortunately, if he were more involved than bookeeping he is probably unlikely to admit to that.
 
2018-03-13 01:44:25 AM  

LiberalConservative: What would be the consequences of refusing?


He joined the SS.

Voluntarily.
 
2018-03-13 01:45:08 AM  
Eh, I don't really care really, but it seems a waste of time and money to go after a Nazi in their 90s for what is clearly simple revenge.

There is no deterrence factor here. No preventing of future crimes. No ongoing criminal behavior (indeed possibly atonement, but I don't have enough detail from tfa to go to bat for him).

What actual good could have been done with the resources applied to this guy?
 
2018-03-13 01:45:14 AM  

davidphogan: God can fark off for letting this guy have 96 years.


He lived so long because he's afraid of what's next.
 
2018-03-13 01:57:39 AM  

davidphogan: God can fark off for letting this guy have 96 years.


Guy joined up as a bank clerk and got assigned to count money at the camp.

Not seeing alot of horrible actions on his part, but hey--I hear outrage is in fashion again this year.
 
2018-03-13 02:01:14 AM  

vygramul: LiberalConservative: What would be the consequences of refusing?

He joined the SS.

Voluntarily.


That's right. And 21 year olds are perfect in their knowledge and understanding. And recruitment propaganda never lies. And the SS would of course voluntarily explain to potential recruits all the horrors of what is planned.
 
2018-03-13 02:01:18 AM  

davidphogan: God can fark off for letting this guy have 96 years.


He was a bookkeeper. Like the concentration camp survivors, he served the Nazis in order to survive.

His conviction was self-serving ideological b*ll sh#t.
 
2018-03-13 02:06:39 AM  

Magorn: I believe in both God and an afterlife, but I cannot reconcile the idea of Hell with my personal theology.   But I can accept the idea that when you go on to the next realm you gain a near perfect understanding of how your action in this life affected others and feel  them from  from their perspective with perfect clarity. To someone like a death camp participant that might feel like hell indeed


A Jew would say he gets eleven months and 28 days in Gehennom
 
2018-03-13 02:10:16 AM  

LiberalConservative: lawboy87: parrellel: He spent the last 30 years of his life fighting Holocaust deniers, I'm not sure if that balances anything out, but it should probably be at least mentioned here.

The fact that they put a sick 90 year old man through a show trial because they were out of monsters is more than a little disgusting in my mind.

The Farker was in the SS!  (They don't get much more "Monster" than that.)  How "disgusting" in your mind that he was an active participant in the deaths of at least 200,000 or more?  (There were approximately 1.1 Million killed at Auschwitz, but it is my understanding he was only there for the last year or so, so I'm just applying some statistics and math.)

What seems to be throwing so many is his nickname "the bookkeeper" as if that was his assignment or job at the death camp.  Much like the biker gang guy who is 6'4" and 260 lbs is known as "Tiny" the nickname really did not capture what the true nature of his job was.  He was responsible for overseeing the victims arriving, stealing all their possessions away from them and then processing them into the camp, where he knew they were going to die.  The reason for the "Bookkeeper" nickname was that he was the guy who kept the records of what was stolen (confiscated) from the inmates as the local SS group was supposed to split their loot with the upper branches along with the Nazi party bigwigs.  So, he had a personal stake in running his part of the show.

Fark him, fark his fellow SS and fark the Nazi's in general.  Anyone that was loyal enough to be in the SS is not anyone I could develop one ounce of pity.  Too bad that he didn't find himself hanging at the end of the rope as tens of thousands of these Nazi farks deserved to do after the war was over.

You are 21, love your country, and enlist in the best unit you can. Because you have training as a bank clerk you are ordered to be a bookeeper. What would be the consequences of refusing? Would refusing actually make a difference and sto ...


He could have gone for an elite regular military unit. Instead, he joined the Party and rose far and fast enough as a True Believer that he ended up in the military arm of the Nazi Party. fark him. fark anyone who makes excuses for him.
 
2018-03-13 02:15:38 AM  

vygramul: LiberalConservative: What would be the consequences of refusing?

He joined the SS.

Voluntarily.


Gröning states that his childhood was one of "discipline, obedience and authority".[4] Gröning was fascinated by military uniforms, and one of his earliest memories is of looking at photos of his grandfather, who served in an elite regiment of the Duchy of Brunswick, on his horse and playing his trumpet.

Gröning wanted to join an elite army unit and set his sights on joining the Schutzstaffel.[3]:140-141 Wi​thout his father's knowledge, he did so in 1940[4] at a hotel where the SS was recruiting. Gröning says his father was disappointed to learn this when he came home after having joined.[3]:141
Gröning describes himself as a "desk person" and was content with his role in SS salary administration, which granted him both the administrative and military aspects he wanted from a career.[3]:141

Upon his return to Germany he led a normal life, reluctant to talk about his time in Auschwitz. However, more than 40 years later, he decided to make his activities at Auschwitz public after learning about Holocaust denial. He has since openly criticised those who deny the events that he witnessed, and the ideology to which he once subscribed. The recorded accounts he provided to the BBC, however, contributed to the decision and ability to prosecute him. His record as an activist against Holocaust deniers since 1985 was not taken into consideration. Gröning has been notable as a German willing to make public statements about his experience as an SS soldier, which are self-incriminating and have exposed his life to public scrutiny.
 
2018-03-13 02:19:23 AM  

AnotherBluesStringer: parrellel: He spent the last 30 years of his life fighting Holocaust deniers, I'm not sure if that balances anything out, but it should probably be at least mentioned here.

The fact that they put a sick 90 year old man through a show trial because they were out of monsters is more than a little disgusting in my mind.

His trial pales in comparison to what he put countless others through.


What did he put others through?

anuran: He could have gone for an elite regular military unit. Instead, he joined the Party and rose far and fast enough as a True Believer that he ended up in the military arm of the Nazi Party. fark him. fark anyone who makes excuses for him.


Gröning wanted to join an elite army unit and set his sights on joining the Schutzstaffel.[3]:140-141 Wi​thout his father's knowledge, he did so in 1940[4] at a hotel where the SS was recruiting. Gröning says his father was disappointed to learn this when he came home after having joined.[3]:141
Gröning describes himself as a "desk person" and was content with his role in SS salary administration, which granted him both the administrative and military aspects he wanted from a career.[3]:141

Unless he he had Psychic powers, there was no way he knew what the SS were doing.

Auschwitz[edit]
Arrival[edit]
Gröning worked as a bookkeeper for a year until 1942, when the SS ordered that desk jobs would be reserved for injured veterans, and that fit members in administrative roles were to be subjected to more challenging duties.[3]:141 Gröning and about 22 of his colleagues travelled to Berlin where they reported to one of the SS economic offices.[3]:141 They were then given a lecture by several high-ranking officers who reminded them of the oath of loyalty they took, which they could prove by doing a difficult task.[3]:141 The task was top secret - Gröning and his comrades had to sign a declaration that they would not disclose it to family or friends, or people not in their unit.[3]:141 Once this had concluded, they were split into smaller groups and taken to various Berlin stations where they boarded a train in the direction of Katowice with orders to report to the commandant of Auschwitz, a place Gröning had not heard of before.
 
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