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(The Register)   IBM's on-the-fly encryption method, dubbed "homomorphic encryption", is 75% faster than previous methods, which should make cloud databases faster while staying secure - hey, stop laughing   ( theregister.co.uk) divider line
    More: Cool, homomorphic encryption, Cryptography, homomorphic encryption library, public key, Encryption, HElib C++ library, huge performance penalties, inventor Craig Gentry  
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1004 clicks; posted to Geek » on 08 Mar 2018 at 1:35 PM (32 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2018-03-08 12:20:58 PM  
What's its Weissman™ Score?
 
2018-03-08 12:22:01 PM  
Who you callin' homomorphic boy?
 
2018-03-08 12:33:25 PM  
IBM? Fast?
 
2018-03-08 12:53:05 PM  
Oh my!
 
2018-03-08 01:06:47 PM  
I BM you BM we all BM for IBM.
 
2018-03-08 01:18:12 PM  
Sounds fabulous.
 
2018-03-08 01:23:29 PM  
or 7500% faster.
 
2018-03-08 01:25:15 PM  
In all seriousness this is pretty dang cool. Good encryption/decryption operations can be *painfully* slow. Anything to speed that up to near real-time would be perfect.
 
2018-03-08 01:25:18 PM  
This is bad news... for the blockchain.
 
2018-03-08 01:39:47 PM  
What's this about a homoerotic erection?
 
2018-03-08 01:42:27 PM  
Serious question -- How is this any different than using encrypted ZFS pools or using an encrypted LVM.  Is it basically a speedup of the checksum calculations?
 
2018-03-08 01:44:55 PM  
It's on-the-fly, you say?
 
2018-03-08 01:46:11 PM  
Homomorphic sounds like a good description of me, a gay guy with body dysmorphia.
 
2018-03-08 01:46:33 PM  
Watson is ghey?
 
2018-03-08 01:57:24 PM  
Is this the thread where old people tell us how the cloud is a fad and how much safer they are with all their data in a single location?
 
2018-03-08 01:58:58 PM  

hashtag.acronym: Serious question -- How is this any different than using encrypted ZFS pools or using an encrypted LVM.  Is it basically a speedup of the checksum calculations?


The key feature of homomorphic encryption is that it can be used to operate on encrypted data without decrypting it. The "homomorphic" part means that if you perform an operation on encrypted data then decrypt, you get the same result as if you had decrypted the encrypted data and then performed the operation.

So for example, you could take your payroll ledger and ask a 3rd party provider to update it with new tax withholding rates and amounts without the 3rd party needing to decrypt the data and see -- or risk losing to a hack -- any of your employee's details.

When you think about the number of data breaches that are due to a third party processor being careless with a customer's data, this is a really big thing. It also protects against the situation where the 3rd party is careful but an insider Bad Actor wants to steal information.

I have no idea how any of this magic works.
 
2018-03-08 02:02:45 PM  

Nadie_AZ: IBM? Fast?


You'd be astonished at how smart some of the people in IBM's research labs are. It is also one of the leading companies in quantum computing research, right up there with the likes of Google.

I know it's easy to make fun of IBM, but it might be the last bastion of the old-fashioned research division like Bell Labs once was.
 
2018-03-08 02:34:58 PM  

jaytkay: Is this the thread where old people tell us how the cloud is a fad and how much safer they are with all their data in a single location?


As opposed to being spread all over the globe, on multiple insecure systems, handled by some other company that places no value on your information other than how much they can charge you to store it and charge you to get it back, and treat information security as nothing more than a checkbox on their latest PWC audit?

Yes, thats much better.
 
2018-03-08 02:47:03 PM  

jaytkay: Is this the thread where old people tell us how the cloud is a fad and how much safer they are with all their data in a single location?


Is this the thread where wet-behind-the-ears devops driods tell us that renting harddrive space from strangers is a good idea?
 
wee
2018-03-08 02:57:03 PM  

jaytkay: Is this the thread where old people tell us how the cloud is a fad and how much safer they are with all their data in a single location?


No, it's where we mention that latency caused by the cloud can break some things in certain cases, making "the cloud" not the answer to every IT question that many younger people think it is.
 
2018-03-08 03:04:59 PM  
At job interviews, be sure to proclaim your steadfast refusal to use the cloud. All the best IT shops will recognize your wisdom.

/ Like you're not too old to be hired anyway
 
2018-03-08 03:05:43 PM  
Psssh. I've been doing XOR for a long time. It's not a big deal guys.
 
2018-03-08 03:06:05 PM  
We've secretly replaced the encryption normally used in this product with ROT13.  Let's see if anyone notices.
 
2018-03-08 03:11:08 PM  

squidloe: Watson is ghey?


Queer as a clockwork orange.
 
2018-03-08 03:12:53 PM  

Nadie_AZ: IBM? Fast?


No, this is IBM compared to IBM.  Because in the IBM world, there is nowhere else.

Sneakernets: In all seriousness this is pretty dang cool. Good encryption/decryption operations can be *painfully* slow. Anything to speed that up to near real-time would be perfect.


If only.  These are operations done on encrypted data without encrypting/decrypting it, which is unimaginably worse.  And also likely to be broken before anyone figures out how to do it efficiently.  Cool tech, though.  Basically *this* is the tech you want your cloud provider to be using, while they insist on peeking at all your data.
 
2018-03-08 03:19:48 PM  

Jclark666: We've secretly replaced the encryption normally used in this product with ROT13.  Let's see if anyone notices.


If you want military grade encryption you have to ROT13 twice.
 
2018-03-08 03:49:35 PM  

jaytkay: At job interviews, be sure to proclaim your steadfast refusal to use the cloud. All the best IT shops will recognize your wisdom.

/ Like you're not too old to be hired anyway


I'll steadfastly use whatever systems my employer (or prospective employer) wants, all the while steadfastly reminding them of the stupid, insecure, and broken choices they are making. Usually in writing, so I have a nice CYA for when the shiat inevitibly hits the fan and they go looking for a scapegoat. Hasnt failed me yet and I've seen several managers shown the door after incidents.

Only thing getting in the way of me being hired elsewhere is negotiating a salary commensurate with my 20+ years of industry experience, certifications, and expertise. I could have a dozen jobs tomorrow if I wanted to be lowballed by some cheap HR type that doesnt know shiat about the jobs they are hiring for and just wants to get the cheapest person they can find. You want good people that care about the job and keeping your data and applications safe and running? Pay me. You want to scrape the barrel and deal with breaches and outages? Apu in Bangladesh is your guy. You get what you pay for.
 
2018-03-08 03:54:48 PM  

czetie: hashtag.acronym: Serious question -- How is this any different than using encrypted ZFS pools or using an encrypted LVM.  Is it basically a speedup of the checksum calculations?

The key feature of homomorphic encryption is that it can be used to operate on encrypted data without decrypting it. The "homomorphic" part means that if you perform an operation on encrypted data then decrypt, you get the same result as if you had decrypted the encrypted data and then performed the operation.

So for example, you could take your payroll ledger and ask a 3rd party provider to update it with new tax withholding rates and amounts without the 3rd party needing to decrypt the data and see -- or risk losing to a hack -- any of your employee's details.

When you think about the number of data breaches that are due to a third party processor being careless with a customer's data, this is a really big thing. It also protects against the situation where the 3rd party is careful but an insider Bad Actor wants to steal information.

I have no idea how any of this magic works.


It's not that I don't get it, it's that it still seems awfully similar to ZFS's native file system encryption.  My zpools encrypt data as it's written to the drive and decrypt as necessary as programs access the data and only the combination of correct user & passkey can access it.  This just sounds like what ZFS already does, 75% only faster.

Unless this is a daemon that runs in the background and adds an additional layer of security, because that could be handy....if they FUBAR that and I start getting password prompts for every mp3 I listen to I'm gonna go postal or student on IBM.
 
2018-03-08 04:38:05 PM  

czetie: Nadie_AZ: IBM? Fast?

You'd be astonished at how smart some of the people in IBM's research labs are. It is also one of the leading companies in quantum computing research, right up there with the likes of Google.

I know it's easy to make fun of IBM, but it might be the last bastion of the old-fashioned research division like Bell Labs once was.


Remember 1989? Logo made with individual atoms.....

img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2018-03-08 04:40:54 PM  
img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2018-03-08 04:44:11 PM  

Fear the Clam: Jclark666: We've secretly replaced the encryption normally used in this product with ROT13.  Let's see if anyone notices.

If you want military grade encryption you have to ROT13 twice.


Great Caesar's ghost!
 
2018-03-08 04:47:30 PM  

Dick Gozinya: Only thing getting in the way of me being hired elsewhere is negotiating a salary commensurate with my 20+ years of industry experience, certifications, and expertise.


The attitude where you are, "steadfastly reminding them of the stupid, insecure, and broken choices they are making" is a real winner.

Everyone loves working with people like that.
 
2018-03-08 04:55:23 PM  

Walker: Who you callin' homomorphic boy?


Ideally your porn and your private messages. NTTAWWT
 
2018-03-08 05:01:18 PM  

jaytkay: Dick Gozinya: Only thing getting in the way of me being hired elsewhere is negotiating a salary commensurate with my 20+ years of industry experience, certifications, and expertise.

The attitude where you are, "steadfastly reminding them of the stupid, insecure, and broken choices they are making" is a real winner.

Everyone loves working with people like that.


As opposed to the smug, know-it-all that jumps on every trend without looking at anything except its "cool factor"? Yeah, I'd rather win with the guys that actually know what they are talking about and what they are doing, even if they are a bit abrasive.

The problem with employees like you is that you treat jobs like a farking social event. I'm not there to make friends or be your buddy. I'm there to work and get paid. If we get along and grab a beer at happy hour once in a while, thats fine. But dont mistake that as interest in hearing you drone on for hours about how you spent your evening gadgeting up your AppleTV and binge watching House of Cards. We're on the clock and there is shiat to be done, so STFU and get back to work. Maybe I am an asshole and maybe you dont like working with me. But when you fark something up because you didnt listen or do what you were told, guys like me are always the first ones you come running to for help. Suddenly, we're your best friends when you need help saving yourself from yourself.
 
2018-03-08 05:07:18 PM  

Jclark666: We've secretly replaced the encryption normally used in this product with ROT13 and added a backdoor that even the FBI can figure out how to use.  Let's see if anyone notices.

 
2018-03-08 05:10:27 PM  

hashtag.acronym: czetie: hashtag.acronym: Serious question -- How is this any different than using encrypted ZFS pools or using an encrypted LVM.  Is it basically a speedup of the checksum calculations?

The key feature of homomorphic encryption is that it can be used to operate on encrypted data without decrypting it. The "homomorphic" part means that if you perform an operation on encrypted data then decrypt, you get the same result as if you had decrypted the encrypted data and then performed the operation.

So for example, you could take your payroll ledger and ask a 3rd party provider to update it with new tax withholding rates and amounts without the 3rd party needing to decrypt the data and see -- or risk losing to a hack -- any of your employee's details.

When you think about the number of data breaches that are due to a third party processor being careless with a customer's data, this is a really big thing. It also protects against the situation where the 3rd party is careful but an insider Bad Actor wants to steal information.

I have no idea how any of this magic works.

It's not that I don't get it, it's that it still seems awfully similar to ZFS's native file system encryption.  My zpools encrypt data as it's written to the drive and decrypt as necessary as programs access the data and only the combination of correct user & passkey can access it.  This just sounds like what ZFS already does, 75% only faster.

Unless this is a daemon that runs in the background and adds an additional layer of security, because that could be handy....if they FUBAR that and I start getting password prompts for every mp3 I listen to I'm gonna go postal or student on IBM.


I'm an amateur, but I'm pretty sure you're way way off. Your disc encryption is just that, disc encryption. Encrypted on the disc, decrypted when you're using it (when you load the excel file, for example). The IBM stuff is the equivalent of telling excel to add 25 to cell B6 without you ever being able to see the contents of the cell. It's encrypted the entire time, not just on the disc. The math makes my brain hurt.
 
2018-03-08 05:13:15 PM  

dj495ufj3: czetie: Nadie_AZ: IBM? Fast?

You'd be astonished at how smart some of the people in IBM's research labs are. It is also one of the leading companies in quantum computing research, right up there with the likes of Google.

I know it's easy to make fun of IBM, but it might be the last bastion of the old-fashioned research division like Bell Labs once was.

Remember 1989? Logo made with individual atoms.....

[img.fark.net image 296x185]


Working on the P9,(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/POW​ER9 ) so getting a kick, etc...I've also worked for AMD and Intel, and IBM's tech is by far the most impressive. It's not cheap or easy, but your bank transactions, stock trades, etc, etc, etc may very likely be running on it. It's plenty fast. Now.....if you are talking about corporate culture..? Bingo.
 
2018-03-08 05:18:25 PM  

hashtag.acronym: czetie: hashtag.acronym: Serious question -- How is this any different than using encrypted ZFS pools or using an encrypted LVM.  Is it basically a speedup of the checksum calculations?

The key feature of homomorphic encryption is that it can be used to operate on encrypted data without decrypting it. The "homomorphic" part means that if you perform an operation on encrypted data then decrypt, you get the same result as if you had decrypted the encrypted data and then performed the operation.

So for example, you could take your payroll ledger and ask a 3rd party provider to update it with new tax withholding rates and amounts without the 3rd party needing to decrypt the data and see -- or risk losing to a hack -- any of your employee's details.

When you think about the number of data breaches that are due to a third party processor being careless with a customer's data, this is a really big thing. It also protects against the situation where the 3rd party is careful but an insider Bad Actor wants to steal information.

I have no idea how any of this magic works.

It's not that I don't get it, it's that it still seems awfully similar to ZFS's native file system encryption.  My zpools encrypt data as it's written to the drive and decrypt as necessary as programs access the data and only the combination of correct user & passkey can access it.  This just sounds like what ZFS already does, 75% only faster.

Unless this is a daemon that runs in the background and adds an additional layer of security, because that could be handy....if they FUBAR that and I start getting password prompts for every mp3 I listen to I'm gonna go postal or student on IBM.


There's your difference.  With this system, the data is NEVER decrypted.  It can't be spied upon while it's being processed.
 
2018-03-08 05:24:02 PM  

jaytkay: Dick Gozinya: Only thing getting in the way of me being hired elsewhere is negotiating a salary commensurate with my 20+ years of industry experience, certifications, and expertise.

The attitude where you are, "steadfastly reminding them of the stupid, insecure, and broken choices they are making" is a real winner.

Everyone loves working with people like that.


I'll take the person who is going to be critical of stupid design decisions over someone who uses fads and claims that they're being "smart" any day of the week.
 
2018-03-08 05:30:04 PM  

Dick Gozinya: jaytkay: Dick Gozinya: Only thing getting in the way of me being hired elsewhere is negotiating a salary commensurate with my 20+ years of industry experience, certifications, and expertise.

The attitude where you are, "steadfastly reminding them of the stupid, insecure, and broken choices they are making" is a real winner.

Everyone loves working with people like that.

As opposed to the smug, know-it-all that jumps on every trend without looking at anything except its "cool factor"? Yeah, I'd rather win with the guys that actually know what they are talking about and what they are doing, even if they are a bit abrasive.

The problem with employees like you is that you treat jobs like a farking social event. I'm not there to make friends or be your buddy. I'm there to work and get paid. If we get along and grab a beer at happy hour once in a while, thats fine. But dont mistake that as interest in hearing you drone on for hours about how you spent your evening gadgeting up your AppleTV and binge watching House of Cards. We're on the clock and there is shiat to be done, so STFU and get back to work. Maybe I am an asshole and maybe you dont like working with me. But when you fark something up because you didnt listen or do what you were told, guys like me are always the first ones you come running to for help. Suddenly, we're your best friends when you need help saving yourself from yourself.


Part of the problem is that new developers these days never learned how computers actually work, because they use languages that do everything for them. I interview people who can't even convert a decimal number into binary, let alone tell me what the performance differences are between lists, trees, and hash tables. One guy complained that we wouldn't let him use Google to help him solve the test problem we gave him. It's depressing as hell.
 
2018-03-08 05:34:27 PM  

Nadie_AZ: IBM? Fast?


I remember the ridicule IBM got for being slow. It wasn't slow. Back in the days (late 70s and early 80s) when my chief work was on a mainframe, I couldn't do anything between the time I submitted a dataset  of 100,000 records for sorting and getting it back.  And that was with a couple of hundred users sharing the machine with me.

I've always thought the rep came because IBM (and DEC) actually checked for errors.
 
2018-03-08 05:45:08 PM  

Dick Gozinya: jaytkay: Dick Gozinya: Only thing getting in the way of me being hired elsewhere is negotiating a salary commensurate with my 20+ years of industry experience, certifications, and expertise.

The attitude where you are, "steadfastly reminding them of the stupid, insecure, and broken choices they are making" is a real winner.

Everyone loves working with people like that.

As opposed to the smug, know-it-all that jumps on every trend without looking at anything except its "cool factor"? Yeah, I'd rather win with the guys that actually know what they are talking about and what they are doing, even if they are a bit abrasive.

The problem with employees like you is that you treat jobs like a farking social event. I'm not there to make friends or be your buddy. I'm there to work and get paid. If we get along and grab a beer at happy hour once in a while, thats fine. But dont mistake that as interest in hearing you drone on for hours about how you spent your evening gadgeting up your AppleTV and binge watching House of Cards. We're on the clock and there is shiat to be done, so STFU and get back to work. Maybe I am an asshole and maybe you dont like working with me. But when you fark something up because you didnt listen or do what you were told, guys like me are always the first ones you come running to for help. Suddenly, we're your best friends when you need help saving yourself from yourself.


Wow, that's quite a detailed angry little fantasy world you've got stewing.

Sorry they took your red stapler. That must be difficult for you.
 
2018-03-08 05:48:15 PM  

RoomFullOfMonkeys: I'll take the person who is going to be critical of stupid design decisions over someone who uses fads and claims that they're being "smart" any day of the week.


Because using AWS is a fad. Azure, too.

No REAL professional uses those toys!
 
2018-03-08 06:00:48 PM  

FlippityFlap: Working on the P9


Is anyone running IBM i on one of those yet? I would love to get my hands on that.
 
2018-03-08 06:24:25 PM  

jaytkay: Dick Gozinya: jaytkay: Dick Gozinya: Only thing getting in the way of me being hired elsewhere is negotiating a salary commensurate with my 20+ years of industry experience, certifications, and expertise.

The attitude where you are, "steadfastly reminding them of the stupid, insecure, and broken choices they are making" is a real winner.

Everyone loves working with people like that.

As opposed to the smug, know-it-all that jumps on every trend without looking at anything except its "cool factor"? Yeah, I'd rather win with the guys that actually know what they are talking about and what they are doing, even if they are a bit abrasive.

The problem with employees like you is that you treat jobs like a farking social event. I'm not there to make friends or be your buddy. I'm there to work and get paid. If we get along and grab a beer at happy hour once in a while, thats fine. But dont mistake that as interest in hearing you drone on for hours about how you spent your evening gadgeting up your AppleTV and binge watching House of Cards. We're on the clock and there is shiat to be done, so STFU and get back to work. Maybe I am an asshole and maybe you dont like working with me. But when you fark something up because you didnt listen or do what you were told, guys like me are always the first ones you come running to for help. Suddenly, we're your best friends when you need help saving yourself from yourself.

Wow, that's quite a detailed angry little fantasy world you've got stewing.

Sorry they took your red stapler. That must be difficult for you.


Not really. The basement they moved me to suits me fine. Nice and quiet down here and they even gave me a can of bug spray for the cockroaches. And unlike you, I dont have managers doing drive-bys and telling me to come in and work this weekend.
 
2018-03-08 06:25:38 PM  

ol' gormsby: FlippityFlap: Working on the P9

Is anyone running IBM i on one of those yet? I would love to get my hands on that.


The Verge - Feb 14, 2018 - Big Blue levels up server sextet with

POWER9 for IBM i, AIX, HANA, Linux
 
2018-03-08 06:34:56 PM  

jaytkay: RoomFullOfMonkeys: I'll take the person who is going to be critical of stupid design decisions over someone who uses fads and claims that they're being "smart" any day of the week.

Because using AWS is a fad. Azure, too.

No REAL professional uses those toys!


When you ignore the drawbacks of AWS and use it anyway, it's a fad. Our point is that there are lots of projects for which AWS is wholly unsuited, and if someone advocates using it in those cases then they should be called out for making a stupid decision.

Simple fact: my company would fire me if I used cloud technology for any part of our product, and for very good reasons. But I suppose that just means I'm old and out of touch, right?
 
2018-03-08 06:43:26 PM  

RoomFullOfMonkeys: Our point is that there are lots of projects for which AWS is wholly unsuited, and if someone advocates using it in those cases


You sure slapped down that argument nobody made, where they insist you must use cloud services in all cases.
 
2018-03-08 07:06:27 PM  

jaytkay: Is this the thread where old people tell us how the cloud is a fad and how much safer they are with all their data in a single location?


jaytkay: At job interviews, be sure to proclaim your steadfast refusal to use the cloud.


jaytkay: The attitude where you are, "steadfastly reminding them of the stupid, insecure, and broken
choices they are making" is a real winner.


You're the one who started with the attitude. Nobody said anything critical of the cloud until you came in  with your gripes about "old people," and when the "old people" - who have decades more experience in the field - responded, you replied with more insults. Perhaps if you don't start talking shiat for no damn reason, people won't sling it back at you.

jaytkay: You sure slapped down that argument nobody made, where they insist you must use cloud services in all cases.


You didn't explicitly make the argument, but it's hard to see how your comments shouldn't have been interpreted that way.
 
2018-03-08 07:52:58 PM  

RoomFullOfMonkeys: You didn't explicitly make the argument, but it's hard to see how your comments shouldn't have been interpreted that way.


I said nothing like that. You responded to some boogie man in your imagination.

All I did was predict that people would lash out at the mention of cloud. Not really a feat on my part, it happens every time.
 
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