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(NBC News)   So much for vaping being the "safe" alternative to cigarettes   ( nbcnews.com) divider line
    More: Obvious, Nicotine, higher levels, potentially harmful chemicals, significantly higher levels, cancer-causing chemicals, high school students, Tobacco, delivers cancer-causing chemicals  
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4124 clicks; posted to Geek » on 08 Mar 2018 at 1:20 PM (39 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2018-03-08 12:40:26 PM  
Who exactly is saying that vaping is "safe" subby? Show me one study that concludes that vaping is the same as breathing clean air.
 
2018-03-08 12:46:24 PM  

croesius: Who exactly is saying that vaping is "safe" subby? Show me one study that concludes that vaping is the same as breathing clean air.


If we want to go back to the 60s/70s/80s I can show you tobacco industry studies that show that smoking is the same as breathing clean air. Hell, they probably show that it was safer than breathing clean air.
 
2018-03-08 12:54:25 PM  

Gubbo: croesius: Who exactly is saying that vaping is "safe" subby? Show me one study that concludes that vaping is the same as breathing clean air.

If we want to go back to the 60s/70s/80s I can show you tobacco industry studies that show that smoking is the same as breathing clean air. Hell, they probably show that it was safer than breathing clean air.


Which never made sense to.  Sure, you might have been ignorant to what precisely is in smoke.  But at the end of the day you're still inhaling soot.
 
2018-03-08 12:55:45 PM  

Diogenes: Gubbo: croesius: Who exactly is saying that vaping is "safe" subby? Show me one study that concludes that vaping is the same as breathing clean air.

If we want to go back to the 60s/70s/80s I can show you tobacco industry studies that show that smoking is the same as breathing clean air. Hell, they probably show that it was safer than breathing clean air.

Which never made sense to.  Sure, you might have been ignorant to what precisely is in smoke.  But at the end of the day you're still inhaling soot.


I guess if you just didn't think about it, and people told you it was all fine, you tended to think it was all fine.

/what if the modern equivalent of that is something like wi-fi
//would still keep my 4 pack a day wi-fi habit
 
2018-03-08 12:59:08 PM  
img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2018-03-08 01:02:44 PM  

croesius: Who exactly is saying that vaping is "safe" subby? Show me one study that concludes that vaping is the same as breathing clean air.


I don't think anyone said it's safe but it's safer than cigarettes. So you kill yourself slower and you look like a douchebag.
 
2018-03-08 01:07:16 PM  
I vape.  There is no tobacco in my juice.  Maybe it's different in the US, but I don't see why they say vaping is partaking of tobacco.

I realize vaping is not 100% safe.  But I'm willing to take the risk with the understanding that it is a hell of a lot more safe than smoking cigarettes, which I did for over 25 years.
 
2018-03-08 01:21:44 PM  

GooberMcFly: I vape.  There is no tobacco in my juice.  Maybe it's different in the US, but I don't see why they say vaping is partaking of tobacco.

I realize vaping is not 100% safe.  But I'm willing to take the risk with the understanding that it is a hell of a lot more safe than smoking cigarettes, which I did for over 25 years.


I've been vaping for nearly 8 years.  Funny thing, my health is perfectly fine. I mean, aside from be a fat fark, but other than that my health has been fine, lungs are clear, no significant problems that aren't related to the ravages of moving through middle age.
 
2018-03-08 01:22:49 PM  

croesius: Who exactly is saying that vaping is "safe" subby? Show me one study that concludes that vaping is the same as breathing clean air.


Where do you find this "clean air"?
 
2018-03-08 01:26:40 PM  

croesius: Who exactly is saying that vaping is "safe" subby? Show me one study that concludes that vaping is the same as breathing clean air.


Not subby, but I've been in a few online discussions where I asserted that nicotine is highly addictive and creates additional risk for heart disease all by itself, regardless of delivery mechanism, and was effectively shouted down by vapers in denial
 
2018-03-08 01:30:24 PM  
*sigh*


nevermind.
 
2018-03-08 01:31:45 PM  

snowjack: croesius: Who exactly is saying that vaping is "safe" subby? Show me one study that concludes that vaping is the same as breathing clean air.

Not subby, but I've been in a few online discussions where I asserted that nicotine is highly addictive and creates additional risk for heart disease all by itself, regardless of delivery mechanism, and was effectively shouted down by vapers in denial


There's always that group of assholes. It's the same as the people who think smoking weed cures everything, or that the diet they're on cures everything, etc.
 
2018-03-08 01:34:14 PM  
Every one of these "studies" says it's the flavoring that is bad for you.
I dont vape cotton candy, pizza, raspberry, chipotle, mint juice.
Just plain low level nicotine juice.
I smoked for 40 years. I have vaped for 5.
Both my general MD and a recent cardiology work up showed that my lung function looked like someone who had quit for 5 years.
I never said it was 100% safe but it is 1000% better than smoking 40 cigs a day.
 
2018-03-08 01:36:19 PM  
Even this study shows it is safer.  Not safe but safer.  Which has been the general marketing push.
 
2018-03-08 01:36:28 PM  

snowjack: croesius: Who exactly is saying that vaping is "safe" subby? Show me one study that concludes that vaping is the same as breathing clean air.

Not subby, but I've been in a few online discussions where I asserted that nicotine is highly addictive and creates additional risk for heart disease all by itself, regardless of delivery mechanism, and was effectively shouted down by vapers in denial


Word.  I've tried to make that point here to a vaping evangelist.  Nicotine is nicotine.
 
2018-03-08 01:37:54 PM  
May not be "safe", but it's "safer" than smoking.
 
2018-03-08 01:38:14 PM  
I don't vape and I don't smoke, but I would like to know what the elevated levels were and if they fall into a dangerous category.

If the levels are non-toxic, is it something to worry about?  Or is this more eating popcorn will destroy your lungs type stuff.
 
2018-03-08 01:39:04 PM  
tl;dr
lh6.googleusercontent.comView Full Size
 
2018-03-08 01:43:30 PM  

lowlandr: Every one of these "studies" says it's the flavoring that is bad for you.
I dont vape cotton candy, pizza, raspberry, chipotle, mint juice.
Just plain low level nicotine juice.
I smoked for 40 years. I have vaped for 5.
Both my general MD and a recent cardiology work up showed that my lung function looked like someone who had quit for 5 years.
I never said it was 100% safe but it is 1000% better than smoking 40 cigs a day.


Your first statement is incorrect. Vaping nicotine at high voltage creates a number of carcinogens, including formaldehyde.

Your last statement is absolutely correct. If you're a smoker, switching to vaping is a healthier alternative.
 
2018-03-08 01:44:10 PM  

GooberMcFly: I vape.  There is no tobacco in my juice.  Maybe it's different in the US, but I don't see why they say vaping is partaking of tobacco.

I realize vaping is not 100% safe.  But I'm willing to take the risk with the understanding that it is a hell of a lot more safe than smoking cigarettes, which I did for over 25 years.


If it has nicotine in it, it came from tobacco.
 
2018-03-08 01:46:11 PM  

meanmutton: lowlandr: Every one of these "studies" says it's the flavoring that is bad for you.
I dont vape cotton candy, pizza, raspberry, chipotle, mint juice.
Just plain low level nicotine juice.
I smoked for 40 years. I have vaped for 5.
Both my general MD and a recent cardiology work up showed that my lung function looked like someone who had quit for 5 years.
I never said it was 100% safe but it is 1000% better than smoking 40 cigs a day.

Your first statement is incorrect. Vaping nicotine at high voltage creates a number of carcinogens, including formaldehyde.

Your last statement is absolutely correct. If you're a smoker, switching to vaping is a healthier alternative.


Even the actual tobacco studies show the flavoring to be really dangerous and more-so than the tobacco.
 
2018-03-08 01:46:36 PM  
At least it only affects teens.
 
2018-03-08 01:49:49 PM  

blastoh: [img.fark.net image 215x234]


Vape fumes in the bathroom at work pies me. Smells like a damned clown farted.
 
2018-03-08 01:51:29 PM  

snowjack: croesius: Who exactly is saying that vaping is "safe" subby? Show me one study that concludes that vaping is the same as breathing clean air.

Not subby, but I've been in a few online discussions where I asserted that nicotine is highly addictive and creates additional risk for heart disease all by itself, regardless of delivery mechanism, and was effectively shouted down by vapers in denial


Hell, I'm a half a pack a day smoker (down from a pack and half), and while I do enjoy the act of smoking am aware that nicotine is one of the most addictive substances known to man.
My biggest issue with smoking is being addicted to nicotine actually.
 
2018-03-08 01:52:02 PM  
Last time I stopped (notice I didn't say quit) smoking was with the aid of a vape. The problem I had in my case was that I was replacing something addictive that tasted nasty with something addictive that tasted awesome.

So I'm trying again. I bought 30 ml of juice that's not awesome. I think what they did to make this stuff was wait until it rained, then gathered all the butts from those outdoor kitty litter ashtrays along with a few fished out of urinals and set them on some window sills to dry. Finally they ground them up and combined that with spittoon juice from the VFW, and ran that through a Starbucks percolator.

3 mg, and when the jar is done so am I.
 
2018-03-08 01:59:48 PM  
Whatever. My wife started vaping in jan to quit a 40 year cig habit. It used to sound like an emphysema ward on my back porch at 7am. The last 60 days have been extremely quiet. If the shiat in the vape juice is killing her too I'd be willing to bet my house it's killing her one hell of a lot slower.
 
2018-03-08 02:00:24 PM  
I use an e-cig and juice flavored like tobacco.

I would think this is common sense.

And I'm high.
 
2018-03-08 02:00:59 PM  

Shakin_Haitian: snowjack: croesius: Who exactly is saying that vaping is "safe" subby? Show me one study that concludes that vaping is the same as breathing clean air.

Not subby, but I've been in a few online discussions where I asserted that nicotine is highly addictive and creates additional risk for heart disease all by itself, regardless of delivery mechanism, and was effectively shouted down by vapers in denial

There's always that group of assholes. It's the same as the people who think smoking weed cures everything, or that the diet they're on cures everything, etc.


They're almost as bad as listening to paleo diet cultists and vegans argue.
 
2018-03-08 02:07:54 PM  

LouisZepher: blastoh: [img.fark.net image 215x234]

Vape fumes in the bathroom at work pies me. Smells like a damned clown farted.


hmmm...

The other day I thought they had changed the air freshener in the bathrooms from cinnamon, which i have always considered the worst odor to cover up your odor. But then I walked in to the smell of ass tainted bubble gum...I really thought that that must be the new air freshener, which is so much worse...must have been a vaper in there...

Only thing worse than the spicy sh*t smell is bubbly gum sh*t smell!
It was so horrible!
 
2018-03-08 02:08:47 PM  
As has been pointed out already, it's safER, but certainly not safe. No physician is ever going to recommend that you inhale anything other than oxygen, maybe some steam, or perhaps some albuterol for asthma.
 
2018-03-08 02:10:45 PM  

meanmutton: Your first statement is incorrect. Vaping nicotine at high voltage creates a number of carcinogens, including formaldehyde.


Only if you heat it to the point of burning, which no one does because it tastes like shiat and the vapor is too damn hot.
 
2018-03-08 02:14:14 PM  

lowlandr: Every one of these "studies" says it's the flavoring that is bad for you.
I dont vape cotton candy, pizza, raspberry, chipotle, mint juice.
Just plain low level nicotine juice.
I smoked for 40 years. I have vaped for 5.
Both my general MD and a recent cardiology work up showed that my lung function looked like someone who had quit for 5 years.
I never said it was 100% safe but it is 1000% better than smoking 40 cigs a day.


i'm actually glad smokes are so expensive in Manitoba now, that would cost about $1000 a month just for smokes here, instead i may make it up to 2-3 smokes in a day so I can save money.
 
2018-03-08 02:15:53 PM  

envirovore: Hell, I'm a half a pack a day smoker (down from a pack and half), and while I do enjoy the act of smoking am aware that nicotine is one of the most addictive substances known to man.
My biggest issue with smoking is being addicted to nicotine actually.


It is not nearly as addictive as most people think.  It is when it is co-administered with other tobacco alkaloids -- specifically, anatabine, anabsine, and nornicotine -- that it becomes supremely addictive.  These alkaloids function as MAOIs (simply, antidepressants) that reinforce nicotine's addictiveness, as the brain can't distinguish between the nicotine and its attendant alkaloids, and it's the alkaloids doing a lot of the heavy lifting when it comes to forming an addiction.

Those alkaloids are found in tobacco.  They are not found in E-liquid unless you specifically purchase WTA (Whole Tobacco Alkaloid) liquids, which are produced by a small handful of companies, and are intended specifically for those sensitive to the absence of these alkaloids in traditional E-liquid and can't make the switch without them.  Most people -- more than 95% by most estimates -- are not sensitive to their absence so it isn't usually needed.  For those few that can't hack regular liquid, WTA liquids usually do the trick.
 
2018-03-08 02:23:26 PM  
what about THC juice? that's still ok right?
 
2018-03-08 02:23:39 PM  

Psychopusher: envirovore: Hell, I'm a half a pack a day smoker (down from a pack and half), and while I do enjoy the act of smoking am aware that nicotine is one of the most addictive substances known to man.
My biggest issue with smoking is being addicted to nicotine actually.

It is not nearly as addictive as most people think.  It is when it is co-administered with other tobacco alkaloids -- specifically, anatabine, anabsine, and nornicotine -- that it becomes supremely addictive.  These alkaloids function as MAOIs (simply, antidepressants) that reinforce nicotine's addictiveness, as the brain can't distinguish between the nicotine and its attendant alkaloids, and it's the alkaloids doing a lot of the heavy lifting when it comes to forming an addiction.

Those alkaloids are found in tobacco.  They are not found in E-liquid unless you specifically purchase WTA (Whole Tobacco Alkaloid) liquids, which are produced by a small handful of companies, and are intended specifically for those sensitive to the absence of these alkaloids in traditional E-liquid and can't make the switch without them.  Most people -- more than 95% by most estimates -- are not sensitive to their absence so it isn't usually needed.  For those few that can't hack regular liquid, WTA liquids usually do the trick.


Well your username certainly checks out.
 
2018-03-08 02:24:58 PM  

FrancoFile: snowjack: croesius: Who exactly is saying that vaping is "safe" subby? Show me one study that concludes that vaping is the same as breathing clean air.

Not subby, but I've been in a few online discussions where I asserted that nicotine is highly addictive and creates additional risk for heart disease all by itself, regardless of delivery mechanism, and was effectively shouted down by vapers in denial

Word.  I've tried to make that point here to a vaping evangelist.  Nicotine is nicotine.


I don't smoke or vape, but I support the hell out of vaping, because I don't care if people want to do things that aren't healthy- I just want public spaces not to stink like acrid, burning dogshiat that then makes me smell like acrid burning dogshiat.  The volatile compounds in vapor also evaporate and dissipate much faster than the the soot in cigarette smoke, so any risk of secondary inhalation in far lower.

Vape away, y'all.  Have at it.

meanmutton: GooberMcFly: I vape.  There is no tobacco in my juice.  Maybe it's different in the US, but I don't see why they say vaping is partaking of tobacco.

I realize vaping is not 100% safe.  But I'm willing to take the risk with the understanding that it is a hell of a lot more safe than smoking cigarettes, which I did for over 25 years.

If it has nicotine in it, it came from tobacco.


Probably, because of the availability of tobacco, but not necessarily.  Nicotine is present in a lot of plants.  It's even in the tomatoes you eat.
 
2018-03-08 02:39:52 PM  

hashtag.acronym: Well your username certainly checks out.


Doesn't invalidate the science, though.
 
2018-03-08 02:39:58 PM  

snowjack: croesius: Who exactly is saying that vaping is "safe" subby? Show me one study that concludes that vaping is the same as breathing clean air.

Not subby, but I've been in a few online discussions where I asserted that nicotine is highly addictive and creates additional risk for heart disease all by itself, regardless of delivery mechanism, and was effectively shouted down by vapers in denial


Hell, I've seen studies that say nicotene by itself is beneficial for heart health.

But as for TFA, is it any surprise that cigarette manufacturers, who are trying to mimic the 'hit' from a real cigarette, are the ones putting carcinogenic chemicals in their vape pens and using crappy, substandard components which react poorly when used? Disposable pens are nowhere in the same league as a real vape.

/Now watch me take a 120 watt drag of smugness
//The e-liquid makes a massive difference, some wick well and others just clog the atomizer, which is probably the main problem with the pens
 
2018-03-08 02:50:17 PM  

dr_blasto: Shakin_Haitian: snowjack: croesius: Who exactly is saying that vaping is "safe" subby? Show me one study that concludes that vaping is the same as breathing clean air.

Not subby, but I've been in a few online discussions where I asserted that nicotine is highly addictive and creates additional risk for heart disease all by itself, regardless of delivery mechanism, and was effectively shouted down by vapers in denial

There's always that group of assholes. It's the same as the people who think smoking weed cures everything, or that the diet they're on cures everything, etc.

They're almost as bad as listening to paleo diet cultists and vegans argue.


You forgot about people who do CrossFit, and won't shut up about it.
 
2018-03-08 02:52:32 PM  

Stibium: snowjack: croesius: Who exactly is saying that vaping is "safe" subby? Show me one study that concludes that vaping is the same as breathing clean air.

Not subby, but I've been in a few online discussions where I asserted that nicotine is highly addictive and creates additional risk for heart disease all by itself, regardless of delivery mechanism, and was effectively shouted down by vapers in denial

Hell, I've seen studies that say nicotene by itself is beneficial for heart health.

But as for TFA, is it any surprise that cigarette manufacturers, who are trying to mimic the 'hit' from a real cigarette, are the ones putting carcinogenic chemicals in their vape pens and using crappy, substandard components which react poorly when used? Disposable pens are nowhere in the same league as a real vape.

/Now watch me take a 120 watt drag of smugness
//The e-liquid makes a massive difference, some wick well and others just clog the atomizer, which is probably the main problem with the pens


Say what now?

It's a vasoconstrictor.  If you suffer from chronic and severe low blood pressure there are much better and safer vasoconstrictors, like caffeine, that can be and are used medically.  Caffeine is often added to IVs for preemies to counteract low blood pressure.

Nicotine also causes an increase in triglyceride levels in the blood and farks with your ability to use insulin properly.
 
2018-03-08 02:57:29 PM  

Psychopusher: envirovore: Hell, I'm a half a pack a day smoker (down from a pack and half), and while I do enjoy the act of smoking am aware that nicotine is one of the most addictive substances known to man.
My biggest issue with smoking is being addicted to nicotine actually.

It is not nearly as addictive as most people think.  It is when it is co-administered with other tobacco alkaloids -- specifically, anatabine, anabsine, and nornicotine -- that it becomes supremely addictive.  These alkaloids function as MAOIs (simply, antidepressants) that reinforce nicotine's addictiveness, as the brain can't distinguish between the nicotine and its attendant alkaloids, and it's the alkaloids doing a lot of the heavy lifting when it comes to forming an addiction.

Those alkaloids are found in tobacco.  They are not found in E-liquid unless you specifically purchase WTA (Whole Tobacco Alkaloid) liquids, which are produced by a small handful of companies, and are intended specifically for those sensitive to the absence of these alkaloids in traditional E-liquid and can't make the switch without them.  Most people -- more than 95% by most estimates -- are not sensitive to their absence so it isn't usually needed.  For those few that can't hack regular liquid, WTA liquids usually do the trick.


Huh, learned something new, thank you.
All I know is nic-fits are a biatch, to the point I hallucinate at times going through them. I've tried vaping a couple years ago to no help. Made me feel like I was always drowning and cough worse.

last time I quit smoking I did it cold turkey by locking myself in my room for 5 days to ride out the nic fits, and smoked about half an ounce of weed when I wasn't sleeping it off. If I could afford the time off and bud to do that again, I'd quit again. Have tried a couple times and make it about two days and the S.O. buys me a pack as I'm just unbearably miserable after a day and half.
/ymmv
 
2018-03-08 03:01:16 PM  

Stibium: Hell, I've seen studies that say nicotene by itself is beneficial for heart health.

But as for TFA, is it any surprise that cigarette manufacturers, who are trying to mimic the 'hit' from a real cigarette, are the ones putting carcinogenic chemicals in their vape pens and using crappy, substandard components which react poorly when used? Disposable pens are nowhere in the same league as a real vape.


This.  Those crappy Vuse and other such disposables or pre-filled things are produced with the cheapest possible materials and sold for a 1000% markup or more.  Notwithstanding that they're not very effective, either, they just aren't anywhere near an real, proper vaping device in terms of performance and efficiency, particularly when you use a liquid produced at a proper, responsible, preferably group-certified (AEMSA or the like) manufacturer that has their liquids analysed and posts those analyses for everyone to see on their website.
 
2018-03-08 03:11:54 PM  

envirovore: Huh, learned something new, thank you.
All I know is nic-fits are a biatch, to the point I hallucinate at times going through them. I've tried vaping a couple years ago to no help. Made me feel like I was always drowning and cough worse.

last time I quit smoking I did it cold turkey by locking myself in my room for 5 days to ride out the nic fits, and smoked about half an ounce of weed when I wasn't sleeping it off. If I could afford the time off and bud to do that again, I'd quit again. Have tried a couple times and make it about two days and the S.O. buys me a pack as I'm just unbearably miserable after a day and half.
/ymmv


The devices and liquid you get makes a massive difference in your success rate.  Finding a flavour that works for you in a manner that you can vape all day (the "All Day Vape" quest we all went through) in a strength that agrees with you longer-term (beyond 3-6 months) is also very important.  My recommendation, if you want to try it again with a good chance of success, is to go to a dedicated vape shop with knowledgeable staff who can guide you through the confusing process of choosing a battery, tank, and liquid that's best suited to how and what you smoke.  Do NOT let them pressure you into buying some mechanical device with rebuildable sub-ohm dripping atomizers to chuck CLOUDS BRAH.  If they try that, leave immediately, because they don't know what the fark they're doing and are just trying to make a buck off you.  If they talk to you, ask questions about what and how you smoke, and steer you towards a modest device, reasonably priced, with minimal maintenance (eg. not a rebuildable device, not a mechanical device that requires you to know voltages and resistance and wire gauges and types, just a simple tank with a simple coil you swap out for a new one once a week or so) then you know you've got a decent place that gives a shiat if you succeed at quitting smoking.  Most should also have a sample bar where you can try different liquids to see what tickles your fancy.

If you have more questions or want more personalized help or whatever, EIP.  I'm always happy to help.  I've been around this block a few times.  :)
 
2018-03-08 03:17:15 PM  

croesius: Who exactly is saying that vaping is "safe" subby? Show me one study that concludes that vaping is the same as breathing clean air.


Did you see anything about dosages?  All I saw was that "may contain cancer causing ingredients".  Well slap the California warning sticker on it and call it a day.
/the dose is the poison
//anything that ignores this is stupid hype
///nearly everything is stupid hype (Sturgeon was an optimist)
 
2018-03-08 03:19:25 PM  

snowjack: croesius: Who exactly is saying that vaping is "safe" subby? Show me one study that concludes that vaping is the same as breathing clean air.

Not subby, but I've been in a few online discussions where I asserted that nicotine is highly addictive and creates additional risk for heart disease all by itself, regardless of delivery mechanism, and was effectively shouted down by vapers in denial


What's even better is to try that in a marijuana thread where I can assure you no one wants to hear that inhaling burning organic particulates is not good for you.
 
2018-03-08 03:23:43 PM  
I quite smoking 13 years ago, and if Vaping helps someone stop that, more power to 'em.  Just do it outside or in a designated area, or I will snap, rip that e-cigarette or whatever the hell its called, out of you hands, mouth, or whatever orifice you have it stuck in, set it on fire and inhale the noxious plastic fumes like it was the last breath from God.

I really liked smoking.  I miss it, and whenever I see a cloud around someone it brings back the want like I stopped yesterday, so quite doing it in building hallways, malls, the bathroom, and anywhere else smoking is not kosher, please.

Help me.
 
2018-03-08 03:24:53 PM  
My observation of people who vape are they don't look very healthy to begin with and seem to be prone to poor life choices.  I come to this conclusion based on:  physical condition, type of car driven, number of and location of tattoos.
 
2018-03-08 03:25:57 PM  
croesius: Who exactly is saying that vaping is "safe" subby? Show me one study that concludes that vaping is the same as breathing clean air.

This handy infographic prepared for me by my local Vapist, Ferd Hermstein, proprietor and owner of Bongs N' Stuff Boutique and Accoutrements LLC, should put any of your fears to rest.

joinnest.comView Full Size
 
2018-03-08 03:32:07 PM  
I'm just glad the article specified what chemicals they were detecting instead of being vague about it: acrylonitrile, acrolein, propylene oxide, acrylamide and crotonaldehyde.
 
2018-03-08 03:50:56 PM  
TFA was unclear to me.  Is vaping worse or better than smoking?  The only thing that was clear is that doing neither is best.  But what is worse?
 
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