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(Forbes)   Did you know that the basic design of the inductor hasn't changed since 1831? Well, this is the year, and the device, that changes all of that   ( forbes.com) divider line
    More: Cool, kinetic inductance, Magnetic field, Faraday's law of induction, Inductor, magnetic inductance, Electromagnetism, Electricity, Inductance  
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4158 clicks; posted to Geek » on 08 Mar 2018 at 12:20 PM (18 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



36 Comments     (+0 »)
 
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2018-03-08 10:26:43 AM  
Oh, that's just great!  Just when I've started to get the hang of winding toroids, this has to happen.
 
2018-03-08 11:24:47 AM  
The qwerty keyboard layout is also close to 200 years old. Controlled fire, the wheel, and beer are slightly older than that.

If it ain't broke, don't "fix" it.
 
2018-03-08 11:36:20 AM  

dittybopper: Oh, that's just great!  Just when I've started to get the hang of winding toroids, this has to happen.


Maybe you could move into buggy whip manufacturing.
 
2018-03-08 11:43:28 AM  

King Something: The qwerty keyboard layout is also close to 200 years old. Controlled fire, the wheel, and beer are slightly older than that.

If it ain't broke, don't "fix" it.


That doesn't mean you can't improve it.  Smaller inductors can mean smaller, less power-hungry electronics, which means you can either pack more of them in a given form factor (so your smell phone and tablet can do more faster), or you can make things that much smaller.
 
2018-03-08 11:44:52 AM  

grokca: dittybopper: Oh, that's just great!  Just when I've started to get the hang of winding toroids, this has to happen.

Maybe you could move into buggy whip manufacturing.


Too new.  I can go *MUCH* older:

img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2018-03-08 12:22:07 PM  

dittybopper: King Something: The qwerty keyboard layout is also close to 200 years old. Controlled fire, the wheel, and beer are slightly older than that.

If it ain't broke, don't "fix" it.

That doesn't mean you can't improve it.  Smaller inductors can mean smaller, less power-hungry electronics, which means you can either pack more of them in a given form factor (so your smell phone and tablet can do more faster), or you can make things that much smaller.


My smell phone works just fine the way it is.
 
2018-03-08 12:33:42 PM  

dittybopper: grokca: dittybopper: Oh, that's just great!  Just when I've started to get the hang of winding toroids, this has to happen.

Maybe you could move into buggy whip manufacturing.

Too new.  I can go *MUCH* older:

[img.fark.net image 850x637]


That's super new tech compared to Clovis.
 
2018-03-08 12:45:26 PM  

King Something: The qwerty keyboard layout is also close to 200 years old. Controlled fire, the wheel, and beer are slightly older than that.


The QWERTY layout sucks.
But there will never be the right time to change it.
 
2018-03-08 12:47:54 PM  

dittybopper: King Something: The qwerty keyboard layout is also close to 200 years old. Controlled fire, the wheel, and beer are slightly older than that.

If it ain't broke, don't "fix" it.

That doesn't mean you can't improve it.  Smaller inductors can mean smaller, less power-hungry electronics, which means you can either pack more of them in a given form factor (so your smell phone and tablet can do more faster), or you can make things that much smaller.


Keyboards, wheels, controlled fire, and beer have also had incremental improvements over the years.

Also the only people with smell phones are that bear's customers.
 
2018-03-08 12:49:46 PM  

brainlordmesomorph: King Something: The qwerty keyboard layout is also close to 200 years old. Controlled fire, the wheel, and beer are slightly older than that.

The QWERTY layout sucks.
But there will never be the right time to change it.


It's a damn slight better than the Dvorak layout, which requires you to use both hands when typing "brazzers" into the address bar.


/or so I've heard
 
2018-03-08 01:16:22 PM  

grokca: dittybopper: Oh, that's just great!  Just when I've started to get the hang of winding toroids, this has to happen.

Maybe you could move into buggy whip manufacturing.


This thread is approved by Eli the Iceman
 
2018-03-08 01:17:31 PM  

AquaTatanka: That's super new tech compared to Clovis.


What point are you trying to drive home?
 
2018-03-08 01:22:19 PM  

King Something: The qwerty keyboard layout is also close to 200 years old. Controlled fire, the wheel, and beer are slightly older than that.

If it ain't broke, don't "fix" it.


Ahh,  the mantra of the Amish...
 
2018-03-08 01:25:44 PM  

brainlordmesomorph: King Something: The qwerty keyboard layout is also close to 200 years old. Controlled fire, the wheel, and beer are slightly older than that.

The QWERTY layout sucks.
But there will never be the right time to change it.


I switched to Dvorak for a while, at this point probably 20 years ago for six months or so, and it was mostly annoying having to switch back to QWERTY on anything that wasn't my personal pc... and the benefits didn't really seem to materialize.

_I_ just wish there was a cheap(ish) mechanical keyboard with the two-piece split and tenting/inclination of the Kinesis Freestyle, but also with the TECK straight-row layout, that I wouldn't have to assemble myself.

But, it seems I might as well hold my breath for the gold-shiatting, rainbow-flying unicorn I could also go for, as that will likely arrive on my porch first.  : (
 
2018-03-08 01:29:46 PM  

max_pooper: dittybopper: King Something: The qwerty keyboard layout is also close to 200 years old. Controlled fire, the wheel, and beer are slightly older than that.

If it ain't broke, don't "fix" it.

That doesn't mean you can't improve it.  Smaller inductors can mean smaller, less power-hungry electronics, which means you can either pack more of them in a given form factor (so your smell phone and tablet can do more faster), or you can make things that much smaller.

My smell phone works just fine the way it is.


Username checks out.
 
2018-03-08 01:32:32 PM  
I'm feeling a bit of reluctance at the notion, just because I fear they may flux it up.
 
2018-03-08 01:38:51 PM  

King Something: The qwerty keyboard layout is also close to 200 years old. Controlled fire, the wheel, and beer are slightly older than that.

If it ain't broke, don't "fix" it.


But it is broke. As the article points out, the induction parameter is a limiting factor in miniaturization.
 
2018-03-08 01:48:42 PM  
"Previously Hidden Physics" is the name of my pet cold fusion reactor project.
 
2018-03-08 01:49:41 PM  

grokca: dittybopper: Oh, that's just great!  Just when I've started to get the hang of winding toroids, this has to happen.

Maybe you could move into buggy whip manufacturing.


csb;

Back in the late 60's the mother of one of my high school friends got into home manufacture of those little toroids. IIRC, the company sold her the supplies - wire and toroids - at their cost and paid her a nickle for every correct one she returned. They gave her back the rejects to re-do.

The company had an actual B&M location and was a supplier for one of big electronics firms. For a HHB this was actually pretty much on the up-and-up. They would sit around watching TV at night and everyone would make these little inductor rings. Sometimes 12 winds on each side, sometimes 12 winds on one and 36 or the other (step up), or vice versa (step down). And all the winds had to be neat and straight.

After two hours of TV the mom, kids, and dad would have individual bowls filled with the things. Then the mom would inspect everyone's work, reject some to re-do, and pack up the rest for the weekly delivery. The cleared about $20-$30 a night, which was actually pretty good in the late 60s.
 
2018-03-08 01:58:30 PM  
SwiftFox's Law: Every 200 years the size of inductors goes down by 50%
 
2018-03-08 02:33:13 PM  
I'm left torn on this.  I was excited by this until I read the referenced article:

"The revolutionary inductor, which works in the 10-50 GHz range, offers one-and-a-half times the inductance density of a traditional inductor, leading to a one-third reduction in area while also providing extremely high efficiency. Previously, high inductance and reduced size had been an elusive combination."

While that certainly sounds nice, but considering we have surface-mount inductors at those ranges I wonder how useful that actually proves to be (without quantifying the "extremely high efficiency" piece, too), especially if this process is 10x or more the cost at its onset, unless they get far smaller than that.  Also, while it's true that technology today still use magnetic cores, it's not like there hasn't been significant miniaturization of the inductor -- they can get them in some very, very small SMT package sizes today already.

So, I guess I'm left wondering if this technology will scale to much large inductance values (~10uH range or more) so it's useful for more than just RF/optical?  For example, could it scale to ~10uH range and be useful for a LC output filter on a power-converter, or configured for a common-mode noise rejection down to the 100kHz range?

/if so, that's awesome
 
2018-03-08 02:53:35 PM  

King Something: It's a damn slight better than the Dvorak layout, which requires you to use both hands when typing "brazzers" into the address bar.


no one wants brazzers on their smell phone anyway, you think it's gonna be like stripper perfume but the only thing you'll smell is dispair.
 
2018-03-08 03:03:25 PM  

FarkGrudge: I'm left torn on this.  I was excited by this until I read the referenced article:

"The revolutionary inductor, which works in the 10-50 GHz range, offers one-and-a-half times the inductance density of a traditional inductor, leading to a one-third reduction in area while also providing extremely high efficiency. Previously, high inductance and reduced size had been an elusive combination."

While that certainly sounds nice, but considering we have surface-mount inductors at those ranges I wonder how useful that actually proves to be (without quantifying the "extremely high efficiency" piece, too), especially if this process is 10x or more the cost at its onset, unless they get far smaller than that.  Also, while it's true that technology today still use magnetic cores, it's not like there hasn't been significant miniaturization of the inductor -- they can get them in some very, very small SMT package sizes today already.

So, I guess I'm left wondering if this technology will scale to much large inductance values (~10uH range or more) so it's useful for more than just RF/optical?  For example, could it scale to ~10uH range and be useful for a LC output filter on a power-converter, or configured for a common-mode noise rejection down to the 100kHz range?

/if so, that's awesome


TFA had a graph showing the minimum inductance with this tech being around 0.4 nH.  That's a lot smaller than a typical PCB trace inductance, so the device probably isn't usable as a discrete device on a PCB.  These things would have to be part of a chip to be useful.
 
2018-03-08 03:09:58 PM  
Up until now it's been nearly impossible to integrate inductors intro silicon based chips, requiring them to be connected externally. Being able to print them onto a silicon wafer is a huge win for miniaturization. Also this opens up the possibility of fabricating racetrack memory via lithography rather than embedding nanoscopic permalloy wires, and that would potentially be game changer.
 
2018-03-08 03:12:07 PM  
So that's improved----when will we stop allowing forbes articles?
 
2018-03-08 05:04:54 PM  

dittybopper: grokca: dittybopper: Oh, that's just great!  Just when I've started to get the hang of winding toroids, this has to happen.

Maybe you could move into buggy whip manufacturing.

Too new.  I can go *MUCH* older:

[img.fark.net image 850x637]


Knapping on the job, again? See me in my office. Now.
 
2018-03-08 05:06:36 PM  
Will the transducer still seduce me?
 
2018-03-08 06:31:21 PM  
dittybopper: King Something: The qwerty keyboard layout is also close to 200 years old. Controlled fire, the wheel, and beer are slightly older than that.

If it ain't broke, don't "fix" it.

That doesn't mean you can't improve it.  Smaller inductors can mean smaller, less power-hungry electronics, which means you can either pack more of them in a given form factor (so your smell phone and tablet can do more faster), or you can make things that much smaller.

smart><cell - - - when words collide
 
2018-03-08 08:41:24 PM  

FarkGrudge: they can get them in some very, very small SMT package sizes today already.


I'm wondering if this is intended not to replace existing SMT components, but reactive strips / stubs. Might allow better wideband performance in microwave circuits.
 
2018-03-08 09:07:01 PM  
Wasn't informed.  Get off his lawn.
img.fark.netView Full Size



/cool and mind-bending, but only seems applicable to communications frequencies
//NTTAWWT
 
2018-03-08 09:21:58 PM  
Sure enough, less than halfway into Trump's term, and here come the induction notices.
 
2018-03-08 09:33:06 PM  

King Something: brainlordmesomorph: King Something: The qwerty keyboard layout is also close to 200 years old. Controlled fire, the wheel, and beer are slightly older than that.

The QWERTY layout sucks.
But there will never be the right time to change it.

It's a damn slight better than the Dvorak layout, which requires you to use both hands when typing "brazzers" into the address bar.


/or so I've heard


I've been using Dvorak so long I can type one handed with either hand on a keyboard with normal qwerty labels.

/no I'm not making that up
 
2018-03-08 11:19:07 PM  

Temporarily Qualmless: Wasn't informed.  Get off his lawn.
[img.fark.net image 225x271]


/cool and mind-bending, but only seems applicable to communications frequencies


Naw, as you get faster and faster with your computers, you need to shrink the size of components. Already, the time it takes for light to cross a chip is too slow and introduces a delay.
Or, looked another way, you've got GHz clock speeds now... this could open up THz clock speeds.
 
2018-03-09 12:14:50 AM  
Reading that article, while interesting, induced a coma. Need some Kardashian news, stat.
 
2018-03-09 12:17:43 AM  

FarkGrudge: I'm left torn on this.  I was excited by this until I read the referenced article:

"The revolutionary inductor, which works in the 10-50 GHz range, offers one-and-a-half times the inductance density of a traditional inductor, leading to a one-third reduction in area while also providing extremely high efficiency. Previously, high inductance and reduced size had been an elusive combination."

While that certainly sounds nice, but considering we have surface-mount inductors at those ranges I wonder how useful that actually proves to be (without quantifying the "extremely high efficiency" piece, too), especially if this process is 10x or more the cost at its onset, unless they get far smaller than that.  Also, while it's true that technology today still use magnetic cores, it's not like there hasn't been significant miniaturization of the inductor -- they can get them in some very, very small SMT package sizes today already.

So, I guess I'm left wondering if this technology will scale to much large inductance values (~10uH range or more) so it's useful for more than just RF/optical?  For example, could it scale to ~10uH range and be useful for a LC output filter on a power-converter, or configured for a common-mode noise rejection down to the 100kHz range?

/if so, that's awesome


IIRC the article also stated it is much more efficient. Do the benefits of longer battery life work for you?
 
2018-03-09 01:20:39 PM  

Driver: dittybopper: King Something: The qwerty keyboard layout is also close to 200 years old. Controlled fire, the wheel, and beer are slightly older than that.

If it ain't broke, don't "fix" it.

That doesn't mean you can't improve it.  Smaller inductors can mean smaller, less power-hungry electronics, which means you can either pack more of them in a given form factor (so your smell phone and tablet can do more faster), or you can make things that much smaller.

smart><cell - - - when words collide


I see *SOMEONE* finally got it.
 
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