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(Reuters)   German software company admits to paying bribes to land state contracts. What a bunch of SAPs   ( reuters.com) divider line
    More: Dumbass, South Africa, Jacob Zuma, software maker SAP, SAP board member, president Jacob Zuma, Thabo Mbeki, SAP contract, public sector deals  
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545 clicks; posted to Business » on 08 Mar 2018 at 10:50 AM (32 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



19 Comments     (+0 »)
 
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2018-03-08 09:27:22 AM  
You know, this isn't surprising at all and I suspect it happens with much smaller companies as well (and by "suspect" I've mean that I've seen it first hand and am literally experiencing right now but can't prove definitively).

Oh and SAP - yes, buy that.  You will need [number of people in the company / 3]  SAP contractors to set up and maintain the system.  And if you have to interface anything to it, pray to the software gods that said contractors are not total shiatbags and you have actual competent, "big picture" IT people and/or PMs in charge and not white-board/documentation heroes.
 
2018-03-08 09:42:32 AM  

UberDave: You know, this isn't surprising at all and I suspect it happens with much smaller companies as well (and by "suspect" I've mean that I've seen it first hand and am literally experiencing right now but can't prove definitively).

Oh and SAP - yes, buy that.  You will need [number of people in the company / 3]  SAP contractors to set up and maintain the system.  And if you have to interface anything to it, pray to the software gods that said contractors are not total shiatbags and you have actual competent, "big picture" IT people and/or PMs in charge and not white-board/documentation heroes.


They're like Oracle, but with less charm.  Probably evenly matched on business scruples, though.
 
2018-03-08 10:17:41 AM  
Oh that reminds me... I should fill out my time sheet.
 
2018-03-08 10:34:46 AM  
Their front ends are from the 80s. It would make sense they operate their contract acquisitions just like it's Wall Street.
 
2018-03-08 10:38:33 AM  

Diogenes: UberDave: You know, this isn't surprising at all and I suspect it happens with much smaller companies as well (and by "suspect" I've mean that I've seen it first hand and am literally experiencing right now but can't prove definitively).

Oh and SAP - yes, buy that.  You will need [number of people in the company / 3]  SAP contractors to set up and maintain the system.  And if you have to interface anything to it, pray to the software gods that said contractors are not total shiatbags and you have actual competent, "big picture" IT people and/or PMs in charge and not white-board/documentation heroes.

They're like Oracle, but with less charm.  Probably evenly matched on business scruples, though.


I recall that many years ago a company I was working for was looking at SAP software to control manufacturing.  IIRC, we didn't end up going with SAP because you had to change how you conduct your business (work flows, etc.) to conform to the software instead of SAP changing the software to conform to how you conduct your business.
 
2018-03-08 10:54:50 AM  

Diogenes: UberDave: You know, this isn't surprising at all and I suspect it happens with much smaller companies as well (and by "suspect" I've mean that I've seen it first hand and am literally experiencing right now but can't prove definitively).

Oh and SAP - yes, buy that.  You will need [number of people in the company / 3]  SAP contractors to set up and maintain the system.  And if you have to interface anything to it, pray to the software gods that said contractors are not total shiatbags and you have actual competent, "big picture" IT people and/or PMs in charge and not white-board/documentation heroes.

They're like Oracle, but with less charm.  Probably evenly matched on business scruples, though.


So you are saying thwy combine German charm with French efficiency?
 
2018-03-08 11:18:12 AM  

dittybopper: Diogenes: UberDave: You know, this isn't surprising at all and I suspect it happens with much smaller companies as well (and by "suspect" I've mean that I've seen it first hand and am literally experiencing right now but can't prove definitively).

Oh and SAP - yes, buy that.  You will need [number of people in the company / 3]  SAP contractors to set up and maintain the system.  And if you have to interface anything to it, pray to the software gods that said contractors are not total shiatbags and you have actual competent, "big picture" IT people and/or PMs in charge and not white-board/documentation heroes.

They're like Oracle, but with less charm.  Probably evenly matched on business scruples, though.

I recall that many years ago a company I was working for was looking at SAP software to control manufacturing.  IIRC, we didn't end up going with SAP because you had to change how you conduct your business (work flows, etc.) to conform to the software instead of SAP changing the software to conform to how you conduct your business.


Been  there, done that.   What a boondoggle.
 
2018-03-08 11:30:24 AM  

dittybopper: Diogenes: UberDave: You know, this isn't surprising at all and I suspect it happens with much smaller companies as well (and by "suspect" I've mean that I've seen it first hand and am literally experiencing right now but can't prove definitively).

Oh and SAP - yes, buy that.  You will need [number of people in the company / 3]  SAP contractors to set up and maintain the system.  And if you have to interface anything to it, pray to the software gods that said contractors are not total shiatbags and you have actual competent, "big picture" IT people and/or PMs in charge and not white-board/documentation heroes.

They're like Oracle, but with less charm.  Probably evenly matched on business scruples, though.

I recall that many years ago a company I was working for was looking at SAP software to control manufacturing.  IIRC, we didn't end up going with SAP because you had to change how you conduct your business (work flows, etc.) to conform to the software instead of SAP changing the software to conform to how you conduct your business.


I'm not going to defend SAP, because they are awful. But...

Many times, if not most times, a business is *better off* if they change their processes to fit the software they are going to use. It's pretty likely that the "processes" any given business uses are stupid, and inefficient, while the processes that the software wants you to use are *much better*.

There are exceptions, of course. But in my experience, when a company tries to pretend that its processes are perfect and can't be changed, what it really means is one of 2 things:

1. Management likes the screwed-up processes because they can massage the numbers easily, since no-one really understands the processes
2. Somebody with some pull doesn't want to do more work than they are already doing. The existing process lets them sandbag, and the new process won't.
 
2018-03-08 11:38:23 AM  

realmolo: I'm not going to defend SAP, because they are awful. But...


In this particular case, the company went out of business 5 or 6 years after anyway.  But not because of bad business processes:  They'd been in business for about 100 years at that point.  They wen't out of business because of normalized trade relations with China allowed in really cheap versions of what they were manufacturing (lace and tricot fabrics).  When you're paying your employees $10 an hour to run a knitting machine, whereas the person in China is only making $2 an hour, it's kind of hard to convince the lingerie, swimwear, and athletic wear companies to buy your fabric when it costs twice what they can buy it for from Chinese companies.
 
2018-03-08 11:49:29 AM  

dittybopper: In this particular case, the company went out of business 5 or 6 years after anyway.  But not because of bad business processes:  They'd been in business for about 100 years at that point.  They wen't out of business because of normalized trade relations with China allowed in really cheap versions of what they were manufacturing (lace and tricot fabrics).  When you're paying your employees $10 an hour to run a knitting machine, whereas the person in China is only making $2 an hour, it's kind of hard to convince the lingerie, swimwear, and athletic wear companies to buy your fabric when it costs twice what they can buy it for from Chinese companies.


But Fight for $15!!!
 
2018-03-08 11:50:37 AM  

UberDave: You know, this isn't surprising at all and I suspect it happens with much smaller companies as well (and by "suspect" I've mean that I've seen it first hand and am literally experiencing right now but can't prove definitively).

Oh and SAP - yes, buy that.  You will need [number of people in the company / 3]  SAP contractors to set up and maintain the system.  And if you have to interface anything to it, pray to the software gods that said contractors are not total shiatbags and you have actual competent, "big picture" IT people and/or PMs in charge and not white-board/documentation heroes.


And if you pay tens of thousands of dollars to train some of your own IT staff on it, they'll all jump ship within 4 months to work for the contractor.
 
2018-03-08 11:51:18 AM  

UberDave: You know, this isn't surprising at all and I suspect it happens with much smaller companies as well (and by "suspect" I've mean that I've seen it first hand and am literally experiencing right now but can't prove definitively).

Oh and SAP - yes, buy that.  You will need [number of people in the company / 3]  SAP contractors to set up and maintain the system.  And if you have to interface anything to it, pray to the software gods that said contractors are not total shiatbags and you have actual competent, "big picture" IT people and/or PMs in charge and not white-board/documentation heroes.


Came here to say this, leaving happily.
 
2018-03-08 01:25:23 PM  
Bribing non-Danish entities used to be legal in Denmark. And Danish companies would do it.

It was made illegal, probably because the UN whined about it.

You're not getting any contracts in Africa without bribes. Wtf. give the business to Russia or China, because /you/ have to take the highroad.
 
2018-03-08 01:39:49 PM  
Scheisse!!
 
2018-03-08 01:42:36 PM  
Bribery is about the only way any sane company would move to SAP, it's absolutely terrible to use and being forced to 'script' or whatever the hell verbage is used for working their their Business Object system, is why I left my last job.
 
2018-03-08 02:15:26 PM  
Our SAP support was just sent to India, should i be worried about having to do the needful?
 
2018-03-08 03:43:27 PM  

kmfjd: Our SAP support was just sent to India, should i be worried about having to do the needful?


Google search questions about SAP screens. All you see are Indian programmers asking other Indian programmers how to get SAP to do what they want.

I'm convinced there is one guy in Pune that answers all their questions and is the only one who knows anything.
 
2018-03-08 11:19:43 PM  
SAP: German flexibility coupled with American attention to detail.


Our management bought into the hype.  Yes, they demand you change everything you do to fit their software processes.  They seem to refuse to customize anything. Even down to individual words for things.   It's like if you ran a garage and SAP comes in to organize it, and suddenly, all your wrenches now have to be called muffins, because SAP only understands the word "muffin", every interactive bit of the systems is based around muffins, and the entire enterprise will collapse if you try to re-write the software to change Muffin to "wrench".
 
2018-03-09 01:34:55 PM  

MugzyBrown: dittybopper: In this particular case, the company went out of business 5 or 6 years after anyway.  But not because of bad business processes:  They'd been in business for about 100 years at that point.  They wen't out of business because of normalized trade relations with China allowed in really cheap versions of what they were manufacturing (lace and tricot fabrics).  When you're paying your employees $10 an hour to run a knitting machine, whereas the person in China is only making $2 an hour, it's kind of hard to convince the lingerie, swimwear, and athletic wear companies to buy your fabric when it costs twice what they can buy it for from Chinese companies.

But Fight for $15!!!


Well, it's good for the manufacturers of burger flipping robots.
 
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