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(Politico)   Icahn has reality denial?   ( politico.com) divider line
    More: Followup, Icahn, Donald Trump, investor Carl Icahn, International trade, Icahn Associates Corp., People from Queens, American billionaires, Ivana Trump  
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4924 clicks; posted to Politics » on 08 Mar 2018 at 10:35 AM (18 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2018-03-08 07:52:25 AM  
This is just amateur behavior on Icahn's part, proving why he was unsuited to a government job.

Everyone knows the proper Republican response to accusations like this is BENGHAZI 0BUMMER BUT HER EMAILS.
 
2018-03-08 07:56:57 AM  
There is no one I'd love to see in prison more... Well, OK, a few more. But, it would be amazing. Alas, he'll never, ever pay for his assorted crimes.
 
2018-03-08 08:06:14 AM  
Back off guys.  He said he didn't do anything wrong, and he's rich, so leave him alone.
 
2018-03-08 08:12:04 AM  
It was just a series of perfectly timed, meticulously planned coincidences, that's all.
 
2018-03-08 08:47:24 AM  
Categorically?
 
2018-03-08 09:08:21 AM  
"If anything, the President got his idea on tariff's FROM me, not the other way around. And IF he happens to drop stock prices enough, maybe I'll get back into that game..." is an interesting defense...and it seems to be cropping up a lot when folks look at how many folks dumped shares prior to Donnie's words tanking stocks. Curious, but hardly a crime so long as they ALL keep their stories straight. And they can make a tidy profit.
 
2018-03-08 09:10:40 AM  

Farking Clown Shoes: This is just amateur behavior on Icahn's part, proving why he was unsuited to a government job.


Hey, he's super-wealthy and that means he is super smart.  That's why we *know* he did nothing wrong here and this is just an amazing coincidence that made/saved him millions and millions of dollars...which, btw, he worked very hard to earn.
 
2018-03-08 09:36:26 AM  
This article and thread are a violation of this First Amendment rights and I demand they go away immediately.
 
2018-03-08 09:54:40 AM  

GooberMcFly: Back off guys.  He said he didn't do anything wrong, and he's rich, so leave him alone.


As long as it's a total denial, then it's good enough for Trump.  And if it's good enough for Trump, then it should be good enough for the rest of us.
 
2018-03-08 10:14:08 AM  
Why are rich people selling if this tariff is such a great idea? He's taking a pass on getting richer while America gets greater.
 
2018-03-08 10:18:51 AM  
i.imgflip.comView Full Size

 
2018-03-08 10:38:00 AM  
Icanh't even
 
2018-03-08 10:40:55 AM  
A pity. This is Icahn's first shady move.
 
2018-03-08 10:42:53 AM  

ToastmasterGeneral: GooberMcFly: Back off guys.  He said he didn't do anything wrong, and he's rich, so leave him alone.

As long as it's a total denial, then it's good enough for Trump.  And if it's good enough for Trump, then it should be good enough for the rest of us.


Unlikely.  SEC careers are made in screwing guys like him to the floor. It may take years, like with Rajit Gupta, but they WILL get him.
 
2018-03-08 10:46:29 AM  
This:
"We reduced our position in Manitowoc for legitimate investment reasons having nothing to do with that announcement,"
And this:
"Any suggestion that we had prior knowledge of the Trump administration's announcement of new tariffs on steel imports is categorically untrue."

Are interesting. The first one would of course have nothing to do with the announcement, because the announcement came later. It could have something to do with inside word, though.
The second one is more interesting. Mostly, it denies the suggestion. But it also says that it denies knowledge of the announcement...not the content of the announcement.
I think there's a subtle difference.
 
2018-03-08 10:49:04 AM  

UberDave: Farking Clown Shoes: This is just amateur behavior on Icahn's part, proving why he was unsuited to a government job.

Hey, he's super-wealthy and that means he is super smart.  That's why we *know* he did nothing wrong here and this is just an amazing coincidence that made/saved him millions and millions of dollars...which, btw, he worked very hard to earn.


There's a strong selection of Discworld quotes that apply here...

She was already learning that if you ignore the rules people will, half the time, quietly rewrite them so that they don't apply to you. - Equal Rites

or

And, while it was regarded as pretty good evidence of criminality to be living in a slum, for some reason owning a whole street of them merely got you invited to the very best social occasions. - Feet of Clay

or

"All right," said Susan. "I'm not stupid. You're saying humans need...fantasies to make life bearable."
REALLY? AS IF IT WAS SOME KIND OF PINK PILL? NO. HUMANS NEED FANTASY TO BE HUMAN. TO BE THE PLACE WHERE THE FALLING ANGEL MEETS THE RISING APE.
"Tooth fairies? Hogfathers? Little-"
YES. AS PRACTICE. YOU HAVE TO START OUT LEARNING TO BELIEVE THELITTLE LIES.
"So we can believe the big ones?"
YES. JUSTICE. MERCY. DUTY. THAT SORT OF THING.
"They're not the same at all!"
YOU THINK SO? THEN TAKE THE UNIVERSE AND GRIND IT DOWN TO THE FINEST POWDER AND SIEVE IT THROUGH THE FINEST SIEVE AND THENSHOW ME ONE ATOM OF JUSTICE, ONE MOLECULE OF MERCY. AND YET-Death waved a hand. AND YET YOU ACT AS IF THERE IS SOME IDEAL ORDER IN THE WORLD, AS IF THERE IS SOME...SOME RIGHTNESS IN THE UNIVERSE BY WHICH IT MAY BE JUDGED.
"Yes, but people have got to believe that, or what's the point-"
MY POINT EXACTLY. - Susan and Death, The Hogfather
 
2018-03-08 10:51:29 AM  
No, he's just a liar.
 
2018-03-08 10:57:39 AM  
Ichan for prison.
 
2018-03-08 11:00:59 AM  

Gyrfalcon: ToastmasterGeneral: GooberMcFly: Back off guys.  He said he didn't do anything wrong, and he's rich, so leave him alone.

As long as it's a total denial, then it's good enough for Trump.  And if it's good enough for Trump, then it should be good enough for the rest of us.

Unlikely.  SEC careers are made in screwing guys like him to the floor. It may take years, like with Rajit Gupta, but they WILL get him.


Yeah, two years after he dies of natural causes at a ripe old age.
 
2018-03-08 11:01:15 AM  
Remember back when Bernie Bros were insisting we shouldn't vote for Hillary because she would give Ichan some sort of appointment in her administration?

I wonder where those talking points came from?
 
MFK
2018-03-08 11:01:19 AM  

Gyrfalcon: ToastmasterGeneral: GooberMcFly: Back off guys.  He said he didn't do anything wrong, and he's rich, so leave him alone.

As long as it's a total denial, then it's good enough for Trump.  And if it's good enough for Trump, then it should be good enough for the rest of us.

Unlikely.  SEC careers are made in screwing guys like him to the floor. It may take years, like with Rajit Gupta, but they WILL get him.


Narrator: But they didn't.
 
2018-03-08 11:01:35 AM  
Good luck getting him on a felony.  At most, he'll fight a few years, pay a fine and take a misdee, which in this administration means you're a failure.

Unless, of course, thanks to all of the co-operating walking wires in the White House, for other investigations, some communication pops up and drops into a prosecutor's lap.
 
2018-03-08 11:02:55 AM  
Why even bother to take the time to deny it? It just thrusts it back into the spotlight.

Feeling a little guilty about something Icahn?
 
2018-03-08 11:03:08 AM  
I would suggest anyone who gets a phone call from Trump, ignore it and then block the number. There's way too much heat on all the Trumps and you don't want to get caught up in that shiatstorm.
 
2018-03-08 11:08:07 AM  
weddingsinger:
There's a strong selection of Discworld quotes that apply here...

Bless you, my son.
 
2018-03-08 11:13:05 AM  

weddingsinger: UberDave: Farking Clown Shoes: This is just amateur behavior on Icahn's part, proving why he was unsuited to a government job.

Hey, he's super-wealthy and that means he is super smart.  That's why we *know* he did nothing wrong here and this is just an amazing coincidence that made/saved him millions and millions of dollars...which, btw, he worked very hard to earn.

There's a strong selection of Discworld quotes that apply here...

She was already learning that if you ignore the rules people will, half the time, quietly rewrite them so that they don't apply to you. - Equal Rites

or

And, while it was regarded as pretty good evidence of criminality to be living in a slum, for some reason owning a whole street of them merely got you invited to the very best social occasions. - Feet of Clay

or

"All right," said Susan. "I'm not stupid. You're saying humans need...fantasies to make life bearable."
REALLY? AS IF IT WAS SOME KIND OF PINK PILL? NO. HUMANS NEED FANTASY TO BE HUMAN. TO BE THE PLACE WHERE THE FALLING ANGEL MEETS THE RISING APE.
"Tooth fairies? Hogfathers? Little-"
YES. AS PRACTICE. YOU HAVE TO START OUT LEARNING TO BELIEVE THELITTLE LIES.
"So we can believe the big ones?"
YES. JUSTICE. MERCY. DUTY. THAT SORT OF THING.
"They're not the same at all!"
YOU THINK SO? THEN TAKE THE UNIVERSE AND GRIND IT DOWN TO THE FINEST POWDER AND SIEVE IT THROUGH THE FINEST SIEVE AND THENSHOW ME ONE ATOM OF JUSTICE, ONE MOLECULE OF MERCY. AND YET-Death waved a hand. AND YET YOU ACT AS IF THERE IS SOME IDEAL ORDER IN THE WORLD, AS IF THERE IS SOME...SOME RIGHTNESS IN THE UNIVERSE BY WHICH IT MAY BE JUDGED.
"Yes, but people have got to believe that, or what's the point-"
MY POINT EXACTLY. - Susan and Death, The Hogfather


Terry Pratchett is so amazingly quotable, but if I had to pick one quote as his love letter to humanity, it's that last one between Susan and Death.
 
2018-03-08 11:15:39 AM  
I am surprised that Trump hasn't liquidated a bunch of his businesses and jumped into the stock market.   Congress has proven you can make a mint on the insider knowledge.  Just think of his crazy tweets and using that to play the market.

I forgot, he aint that smart.

Sorry
 
2018-03-08 11:15:55 AM  

Gyrfalcon: ToastmasterGeneral: GooberMcFly: Back off guys.  He said he didn't do anything wrong, and he's rich, so leave him alone.

As long as it's a total denial, then it's good enough for Trump.  And if it's good enough for Trump, then it should be good enough for the rest of us.

Unlikely.  SEC careers are made in screwing guys like him to the floor. It may take years, like with Rajit Gupta, but they WILL get him.


Ha.  I agree with you.  I was more going on how Trump always says, "he totally denied it," as if that should mean something.  Oh, the guy accused strenuously denied it?  Then he MUST be innocent, because nobody guilty ever denies anything.
 
2018-03-08 11:23:21 AM  

MFK: Gyrfalcon: ToastmasterGeneral: GooberMcFly: Back off guys.  He said he didn't do anything wrong, and he's rich, so leave him alone.

As long as it's a total denial, then it's good enough for Trump.  And if it's good enough for Trump, then it should be good enough for the rest of us.

Unlikely.  SEC careers are made in screwing guys like him to the floor. It may take years, like with Rajit Gupta, but they WILL get him.

Narrator: But they didn't.


Gupta is in prison now.
 
2018-03-08 11:27:19 AM  

Archie Goodwin: It was just a series of perfectly timed, meticulously planned coincidences, that's all.


He's just following Whiterose's orders. She's got a schedule to keep. Tick tock.
 
2018-03-08 11:27:44 AM  

tobcc: I am surprised that Trump hasn't liquidated a bunch of his businesses and jumped into the stock market.   Congress has proven you can make a mint on the insider knowledge.  Just think of his crazy tweets and using that to play the market.


Can you liquidate when you're that deep in debt?
 
2018-03-08 11:29:06 AM  

Stone Meadow: Gyrfalcon: ToastmasterGeneral: GooberMcFly: Back off guys.  He said he didn't do anything wrong, and he's rich, so leave him alone.

As long as it's a total denial, then it's good enough for Trump.  And if it's good enough for Trump, then it should be good enough for the rest of us.

Unlikely.  SEC careers are made in screwing guys like him to the floor. It may take years, like with Rajit Gupta, but they WILL get him.

Yeah, two years after he dies of natural causes at a ripe old age.


Yup. Evil quite often has already won by the time it is defeated.

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots07​6​3.html
 
2018-03-08 11:29:24 AM  
t3.gstatic.comView Full Size
would be a better choice.

/I am aware that isn't Ichi
//Ichi  or Icahn now that's a tough choice
///Slashed come in threes
 
2018-03-08 11:32:27 AM  

Gyrfalcon: MFK: Gyrfalcon: ToastmasterGeneral: GooberMcFly: Back off guys.  He said he didn't do anything wrong, and he's rich, so leave him alone.

As long as it's a total denial, then it's good enough for Trump.  And if it's good enough for Trump, then it should be good enough for the rest of us.

Unlikely.  SEC careers are made in screwing guys like him to the floor. It may take years, like with Rajit Gupta, but they WILL get him.

Narrator: But they didn't.

Gupta is in prison now.


Did he go back? He served a whopping 19 months. Whooaaaaaa

This is America. Hedge funds and these private equity firms are built on insider trading. Occasionally, they'll throw some bait out there when it's just blatant, but when was the last time BlackRock's CEO or Goldman's did a 10 year prison stint?
 
2018-03-08 11:33:12 AM  

UberDave: Farking Clown Shoes: This is just amateur behavior on Icahn's part, proving why he was unsuited to a government job.

Hey, he's super-wealthy and that means he is super smart.  That's why we *know* he did nothing wrong here and this is just an amazing coincidence that made/saved him millions and millions of dollars...which, btw, he worked very hard to earn.


Wait, lets break this down...

In February, Icahn's funds sold millions of dollars of shares in The Manitowoc Co., one of the world's largest manufacturers of cranes. On March 1, the day Trump announced steel and aluminum tariffs, the Wisconsin-based company's shares dropped about 6 percent.

I read "millions" as 2-19, 20+ being "tens of millions".
6% of $1 million is $60k so we are talking about a span of $120k-1,140k.
At this point, there is no "saved", it is something he didn't lose and it would only matter if he had to sell in the first place. If at this point he bought shares again, trump announced that the tariff was off and stocks rebounded, then that is some shady sheit!

As it is, I don't see how a billionaire would risk publicity for such paltry "savings", especially if you can simply hold the stock until a mild increase again. Just trump rambling about it could have just warned the guy. While I don't trust either one, I don't see how this is a big deal, yet...
I'm a machinist, and watching this very closely because the last Republican Farkstick that thought this was a good idea tanked my job market. Loss of 20k machinist jobs in my state alone, IIRC. (someone had posted very good info on this recently, can't recall who or where)
 
2018-03-08 11:35:57 AM  
Oh Lordy I hope there are tapes!
 
2018-03-08 11:36:18 AM  
How many days does it take for Trump to think of something, before he tweets about it?

I'd say not very many, which means he came up with this in March, and since Icahn sold in Feb...
 
2018-03-08 11:36:20 AM  

GooberMcFly: Back off guys.  He said he didn't do anything wrong, and he's rich, so leave him alone.


There's a class of people for whom a denial is a refutation. Most are the biggest liars on the planet, but their denials are reported in the media as if they were the voice of God.
 
2018-03-08 11:43:11 AM  

hubiestubert: "If anything, the President got his idea on tariff's FROM me, not the other way around. And IF he happens to drop stock prices enough, maybe I'll get back into that game..." is an interesting defense...and it seems to be cropping up a lot when folks look at how many folks dumped shares prior to Donnie's words tanking stocks. Curious, but hardly a crime so long as they ALL keep their stories straight. And they can make a tidy profit.


That's not any better.

"Oh, no, I didn't sell because Trump told me he was gonna tariff the company's inputs! I sold because Itold trump to tariff the company's inputs!"
 
2018-03-08 11:43:35 AM  
"We reduced our position in Manitowoc for legitimate investment reasons having nothing to do with that announcement," Icahn said in his statement, without elaborating.

See, now, it's the elaboration that's going to make or break you, Icahn. I wouldn't have glossed over that in my statement (unless, of course, I was lying, at which point I'd gloss over it & make you come at me with a friggin' subpoena.)

Next up: Icahn is subpoenaed.
 
2018-03-08 11:44:28 AM  
This could have used the obvious tag.  I mean what else was he going to say, whether true or not.
 
2018-03-08 11:56:30 AM  
"We reduced our position in Manitowoc for legitimate investment reasons having nothing to do with that announcement," Icahn said in his statement, without elaborating.

"I had legitimate, non-illegal reasons to sell that stock.  I just can't think of what they were at the moment."
 
2018-03-08 11:57:49 AM  
Trump told all his billionaire buddies about the tariff at least the night before his first Tweet to the public. Everybody in the White House (and consequently anybody paying the least bit of attention) knows about Trump's early turn in with a Big Mac and a Big Mouth, then on the phone to the crony-sphere.

They are all colluders, insider traders and liars.

NO BILLIONAIRE CAN SERVE IN A PUBLIC OFFICE WITHOUT CONFLICTS OF INTEREST AND COLLUSION. THEY CARRY THE HABITS OF A LIFETIME OF BUSINESS INTO THE PUBLIC FORUM. THIS IS FATAL.

BAN THE OLIGARCHS FROM POLITICS IN ALL DEMOCRACIES, OR THERE IS NO DEMOCRACY.

Money and corporations have "no body to be tortured, no soul to be damned, and is therefore not a person"and has no human rights. It should not be allowed to vote, run for office, or intefer in the political life of a democracy. I am right behind the 15th century British jurist who said the bit in quotation marks. I understand that there are some advantages to the legal fiction of personhodd, but shiat is shiat and it's time to take out the shiat.


What a great President Icann would have made if he had been dumb enough to accept the Republican eat the Pod challenge.

But alas, real billionaires are way smarter than Trump. They think before they leap into the sewers.
 
2018-03-08 11:58:32 AM  

GooberMcFly: Back off guys.  He said he didn't do anything wrong, and he's rich, so leave him alone.


To quote MST3K "Ah your rich and white, I don't see a problem here.

/Mitchell!
 
2018-03-08 12:01:22 PM  

Percise1: UberDave: Farking Clown Shoes: This is just amateur behavior on Icahn's part, proving why he was unsuited to a government job.

Hey, he's super-wealthy and that means he is super smart.  That's why we *know* he did nothing wrong here and this is just an amazing coincidence that made/saved him millions and millions of dollars...which, btw, he worked very hard to earn.

Wait, lets break this down...

In February, Icahn's funds sold millions of dollars of shares in The Manitowoc Co., one of the world's largest manufacturers of cranes. On March 1, the day Trump announced steel and aluminum tariffs, the Wisconsin-based company's shares dropped about 6 percent.

I read "millions" as 2-19, 20+ being "tens of millions".
6% of $1 million is $60k so we are talking about a span of $120k-1,140k.
At this point, there is no "saved", it is something he didn't lose and it would only matter if he had to sell in the first place. If at this point he bought shares again, trump announced that the tariff was off and stocks rebounded, then that is some shady sheit!

As it is, I don't see how a billionaire would risk publicity for such paltry "savings", especially if you can simply hold the stock until a mild increase again. Just trump rambling about it could have just warned the guy. While I don't trust either one, I don't see how this is a big deal, yet...
I'm a machinist, and watching this very closely because the last Republican Farkstick that thought this was a good idea tanked my job market. Loss of 20k machinist jobs in my state alone, IIRC. (someone had posted very good info on this recently, can't recall who or where)


Why hold onto the stock through the dip you know is coming?  If you do that, you only get back to where you were.

Much more profitable to sell the stock before the dip, then buy it back after it bottoms out.  That way you not only don't lose money when it goes down, but you make extra profit when it goes back up.
 
2018-03-08 12:08:36 PM  
The Father of the Koch Brothers was Stalin's right hand boy in the oil and gas fields of Russia and Central Asia.

Arm and Hammer was also pro-Russia.

Russia owned at least one, if not a plurality of the political parties in every country of Europe.

The UK Muscovite Party does not date to the 30's unless you are talking the 1630s or 1730s.

The guy who said that capitalists would vote on the contract for the rope to hang themselves with was talking sooth as well as being witty. Looking for treason? Just look wherever there is a lot of money and a lot of power and influence. You will find treasonable actions and opinions where ever they pay well.

Casinos? Casinos are a passing fad. Hotels and golf courses? Chump change. Natural resources are the paws and teeth of the Russian bear. Real estate is the name of the Great Game. Or Monopoly if you please.
 
2018-03-08 12:09:09 PM  
Reality denial? Hardly. He know that reality is that he can do what he wants and not get in trouble.
 
2018-03-08 12:09:28 PM  

dietbubba: GooberMcFly: Back off guys.  He said he didn't do anything wrong, and he's rich, so leave him alone.

To quote MST3K "Ah your rich and white, I don't see a problem here.

/Mitchell!


Your or you're? Meh. Same thing in this case.
 
2018-03-08 12:10:02 PM  
I wonder if it's occurred to these guys that there might be a large RICO case brewing.  Like a really farking large one.  I can imagine if I was trying to build a case against one guy for a series of white-collar and political crimes his closest allies would suddenly fall under the watch of whoever was building that case.

Doubt it but I can pipe dream.
 
2018-03-08 12:17:05 PM  

Karac: Percise1: UberDave: Farking Clown Shoes: This is just amateur behavior on Icahn's part, proving why he was unsuited to a government job.

Hey, he's super-wealthy and that means he is super smart.  That's why we *know* he did nothing wrong here and this is just an amazing coincidence that made/saved him millions and millions of dollars...which, btw, he worked very hard to earn.

Wait, lets break this down...

In February, Icahn's funds sold millions of dollars of shares in The Manitowoc Co., one of the world's largest manufacturers of cranes. On March 1, the day Trump announced steel and aluminum tariffs, the Wisconsin-based company's shares dropped about 6 percent.

I read "millions" as 2-19, 20+ being "tens of millions".
6% of $1 million is $60k so we are talking about a span of $120k-1,140k.
At this point, there is no "saved", it is something he didn't lose and it would only matter if he had to sell in the first place. If at this point he bought shares again, trump announced that the tariff was off and stocks rebounded, then that is some shady sheit!

As it is, I don't see how a billionaire would risk publicity for such paltry "savings", especially if you can simply hold the stock until a mild increase again. Just trump rambling about it could have just warned the guy. While I don't trust either one, I don't see how this is a big deal, yet...
I'm a machinist, and watching this very closely because the last Republican Farkstick that thought this was a good idea tanked my job market. Loss of 20k machinist jobs in my state alone, IIRC. (someone had posted very good info on this recently, can't recall who or where)

Why hold onto the stock through the dip you know is coming?  If you do that, you only get back to where you were.

Much more profitable to sell the stock before the dip, then buy it back after it bottoms out.  That way you not only don't lose money when it goes down, but you make extra profit when it goes back up.


The shares were valued at $31.3 million at the time of sale, saving close to $2 million dollars when the shares dropped after Trump's announcement. Insider trading is rarely prosecuted so people think they can get away with it. Martha Stewart lied to the FBI about her insider trading that kept her from losing around $40,000 and went to prison for it.
 
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