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(New York Daily News)   Just how ignorant does one have to be to think it's possible to overload a child's immune system with vaccines?   ( nydailynews.com) divider line
    More: Fail, Immune system, Vaccination, safe childhood immunization, Vaccine, American Medical Association, U.S. childhood vaccination, immune systems, numerous vaccines  
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4826 clicks; posted to Main » on 08 Mar 2018 at 3:21 AM (18 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2018-03-07 10:30:06 PM  
Very.
 
2018-03-07 10:35:59 PM  
Don't get vaccinated or your kid will get a debilitating disease?
 
2018-03-07 10:39:41 PM  
Only if you get them ALL in one f*cking day.

Otherwise, your kid will be just fine and won't die of diseases that killed kids 100 years ago. I'm a firm believer in obligatory quarantines if you're not going to vaccinate your kid. If you're not going to vaccinate, it has to be kept away from the herd. You be crazy and be a rugged individual, but you do it at home. And if you need to go out, you get a Silkwood scrubdown and a hazmat suit before you're allowed to go to Whole Foods and get your gluten-free gummi bears.
 
2018-03-07 10:41:12 PM  
pmcdeadline2.files.wordpress.comView Full Size
 
2018-03-07 10:49:18 PM  

ecmoRandomNumbers: Only if you get them ALL in one f*cking day.

Otherwise, your kid will be just fine and won't die of diseases that killed kids 100 years ago. I'm a firm believer in obligatory quarantines if you're not going to vaccinate your kid. If you're not going to vaccinate, it has to be kept away from the herd. You be crazy and be a rugged individual, but you do it at home. And if you need to go out, you get a Silkwood scrubdown and a hazmat suit before you're allowed to go to Whole Foods and get your gluten-free gummi bears.


Exactly what I was going to say. There is a reason they're not given all at once - and it has nothing to do with 'overloading'.
 
2018-03-08 03:24:37 AM  
GOP voter...
 
2018-03-08 03:31:32 AM  
Former Army Medic prepping for a divorce mediation where the opposing party is an antivaxer. With three hours of sleep, it's going to be interesting to see how this plays out.
 
2018-03-08 03:38:30 AM  
At every moment, your body is under assault from various germs, you've evolved to shrug most of them off with any problem.
 
2018-03-08 03:51:44 AM  

LarrySouth: GOP voter...


I've a friend who's one of the libbiest libs to ever have libbed.  She once explained to me why she spaced her kids' vaccinations more than might otherwise be recommended.  I pointed out that her gut feeling does not in any way supersede the medical knowledge and experience of tens of thousands of medical professionals worldwide and that, while her actions may not have been harmful to her kids immunities, it in no way was based on any scientific literature.  I got the old, "Well, it just seems to me that...".

Ugh.
 
2018-03-08 03:52:01 AM  
One way you could overwhelm an immune system in a child is if you did something like, I don't know, give them raw water, uncleaned and underprepared foods as part of a dietary regime that does not satisfy their needs for growth and maintenance.

Sure, humans are hardy and resilient, but they're a lot like building a house. You fsck up the foundation at the beginning, there'll be a point where you can't compensate for that and it becomes a very big issue.
 
2018-03-08 03:57:25 AM  

Tex570: Former Army Medic prepping for a divorce mediation where the opposing party is an antivaxer. With three hours of sleep, it's going to be interesting to see how this plays out.


Good luck and send an update.
 
2018-03-08 03:57:56 AM  
My lil sis is a Doctor, and I'll never forget what happened when she had my niece and my aunt asked her if she was going to vaccinate. Suffice to say, she was not asked that again by any other relative who saw the smackdown. Vaccinate or stay out of public, it should be that simple.
 
2018-03-08 04:11:14 AM  
As ignorant as the study authors, Subby? FTS:
Biological data suggest that increased vaccine antigen exposure could increase the risk for infections not targeted by vaccines.

This was a good study and addressed a legitimate complaint - that the accelerated vaccination schedules were implemented without sufficient safety studies, at the urging of insurance companies, particularly in light of the hypothesis above. This is the first such safety study*, and, fortunately, they found no increase in risk.

It should've been done 20 years ago, but that's besides the point. It's a good study, and not a fail, because this is the ammo that will quiet the only legit complaint the anti-vaxxers had.

*FTEditorial: In 2013, the Institute of Medicine (IOM), now the National Academy of Medicine, called for increased research into the safety of the entire childhood immunization schedule. Although pre- and postlicensure studies had examined the safety and efficacy of individual vaccines separately and in combination with other vaccines, these studies did not examine the safety of the overall schedule. In addition, the overall immunization schedule had evolved to include increased numbers of routine vaccinations, from 8 in 1994 to 14 in 2010.
 
2018-03-08 04:13:12 AM  

ArcadianRefugee: I've a friend who's one of the libbiest libs to ever have libbed.  She once explained to me why she spaced her kids' vaccinations more than might otherwise be recommended.  I pointed out that her gut feeling does not in any way supersede the medical knowledge and experience of tens of thousands of medical professionals worldwide and that, while her actions may not have been harmful to her kids immunities, it in no way was based on any scientific literature.  I got the old, "Well, it just seems to me that...".


Per the above, there was no scientific literature supporting your position until now.
 
2018-03-08 04:14:43 AM  

wood0366: One way you could overwhelm an immune system in a child is if you did something like, I don't know, give them raw water, uncleaned and underprepared foods as part of a dietary regime that does not satisfy their needs for growth and maintenance.

Sure, humans are hardy and resilient, but they're a lot like building a house. You fsck up the foundation at the beginning, there'll be a point where you can't compensate for that and it becomes a very big issue.


You may be interested in the "raw food diet" otherwise known as the "let's ignore the past few centuries worth of scientific and medicial knowledge and eat like people did back when death from chlorea and dysentery were commonplace" diet.
 
2018-03-08 04:18:59 AM  
Refusing to vaccinate a child against a doctor's advice should be considered child endangerment. At the very least parents should be required to sign a waiver that makes clear that they may be prosecuted if that child contracts the disease that they would have been protected from. And schools / daycare should be under no obligation to accept any child who has not received all their shots.
 
2018-03-08 04:23:11 AM  

EvilEgg: At every moment, your body is under assault from various germs, you've evolved to shrug most of them off with any problem.


Except neonates. Birth to 6 months  - even when breastfed - is a very dangerous time for babies, infection-wise.  Immune systems aren't really up to full strength until about 5 years old. So you don't really start "shrugging them off" until then. Your life as a parent will mean dealing with enormous amounts of snot, vomit, and diarrhea until your child makes it past 5 or thereabouts, and pray your offspring don't have any genetic compromise to their immune systems.
 
2018-03-08 04:38:41 AM  
I'm not an anti-vaxer and I have no children. I would like to point out that I came down with a very rare disease in kindergarten that was a reaction from my immune system shortly after I received all of my vaccinations to attend school. It's called  Henoch-Schönlein purpura, and it mostly strikes young children, boys in particular. The disease was featured in an episode of "House M.D." in the final season.
The doctors though I might have an appendix that was about to explode so they performed emergency surgery on me. They took out my appendix while they were in there, and they pulled out all of my intestines while they were in there to look for any blockage. I ended up getting Walking Pneumonia and spent more than 6 weeks in the hospital.
My Purpura symptoms didn't show up until the morning after my surgery. My main symptoms were joint pain and nausea.
To this day, I believe the disease may have been triggered by the vaccinations I received before attending kindergarten.
 
2018-03-08 04:39:30 AM  

drxym: Refusing to vaccinate a child against a doctor's advice should be considered child endangerment. At the very least parents should be required to sign a waiver that makes clear that they may be prosecuted if that child contracts the disease that they would have been protected from. And schools / daycare should be under no obligation to accept any child who has not received all their shots.


That might work, if vaccines were 100% effective. They're not. Doesn't mean people shouldn't have them, but "they would have been protected from" isn't something that any doctor can guarantee, so such waivers aren't really enforceable. Education, not coercion, is the better long-term solution. Coercion only makes people more and more determined to find doctors willing to sign exemption certificates.

As far as I'm aware, schools and daycares already have quarantine policies - at least here in Oz.
 
2018-03-08 04:48:22 AM  

mr_larry: I'm not an anti-vaxer and I have no children. I would like to point out that I came down with a very rare disease in kindergarten that was a reaction from my immune system shortly after I received all of my vaccinations to attend school. It's called  Henoch-Schönlein purpura, and it mostly strikes young children, boys in particular. The disease was featured in an episode of "House M.D." in the final season.
The doctors though I might have an appendix that was about to explode so they performed emergency surgery on me. They took out my appendix while they were in there, and they pulled out all of my intestines while they were in there to look for any blockage. I ended up getting Walking Pneumonia and spent more than 6 weeks in the hospital.
My Purpura symptoms didn't show up until the morning after my surgery. My main symptoms were joint pain and nausea.
To this day, I believe the disease may have been triggered by the vaccinations I received before attending kindergarten.


The immune system is one of the strangest black boxes in human biology, and as someone with multiple sclerosis, it still amazes me that in most people, it doesn't partially go wibble like it did for both of us.
 
2018-03-08 04:51:00 AM  
Scheduling is the key.

Here is Asia, where population densities are incredibly high, refusing vaccination is basically signing a death warrant for your child.

However, the human body was never designed to handle the vaccination scheduling seen today. 5-in-1 vaccinations are common now, given with another 2 or 3 vaccinations at the same time. 2 million years ago, if you caught the 7 or 8 diseases this kind of vaccination scheduling simulates all at the same time, you died.

Today, in my opinion, this kind of vaccination load causes some kids' immune systems to go crazy. The body mounts an epic immune response to a threat it was never designed to handle (7 or 8 communicable diseases at once), never realizing they are (mostly) harmless vaccines.

The kids then get huge allergy problems for the rest of their lives as their immune system never turns off from "defend against the apocalypse".

Note the increase in egg allergies (most vaccines are egg grown and hypersentitive immune systems mistake the egg proteins for viruses). Note the increase in life-threatening allergies (asthma, etc) in population groups that receive the most front-loaded vaccination scheduling (mostly African Americans since the idea to vaccinate as much as possible every time the child is seen by a doctor because the medical system doesn't know if the black kid will be coming back for regular preventative care). Note the general explosion of serious allergy issues since the introduction of the human-disease-apocalypse-all-in-one-sh​ot vaccines.

Nothing wrong with the vaccines. The problem is stacking them up so tightly against each other. We weren't designed for that kind of immune response and some people react incredibly badly to it.
 
2018-03-08 04:59:58 AM  
Jenny McCarthy ignorant?  That's a thing, right?
 
2018-03-08 05:04:18 AM  

ArcadianRefugee: LarrySouth: GOP voter...

I've a friend who's one of the libbiest libs to ever have libbed.  She once explained to me why she spaced her kids' vaccinations more than might otherwise be recommended.  I pointed out that her gut feeling does not in any way supersede the medical knowledge and experience of tens of thousands of medical professionals worldwide and that, while her actions may not have been harmful to her kids immunities, it in no way was based on any scientific literature.  I got the old, "Well, it just seems to me that...".

Ugh.


If there's one thing I've learned about parenthood - there's no instruction book. Sure, there's lots of books *about* it, telling you what to do, and how to do it, but if your BS meter is working, you soon give up on those books, because book 'A' tells you to do this, but book 'B' tells you otherwise. Many of these books are wriiten by MDs. You eventually come to the conclusion that no-one has the answer, and that parenting books are just a way to play on your fear and part you from your cash.

If you spend a bit of time in self-reflection, you soon realise that your own instincts are going to play a big role in what you choose to do when raising your children, and critical thinking becomes very important. Talk to your GP, talk to another GP, and another GP, talk to your friends (the ones with children, obviously) and make sure you're content with the decision/s you eventually make, but don't stop examining and questioning those decisions.

If your libby friend has an instinct about her child's response to vaccines, and wants to wait a while until she proceeds, more power to her. She's on the path to completing the vaccination schedule, but *something* has given her pause - at least she's examining her choices, unlike the extreme ends of the spectrum - unthinking obedience and unthinking resistance.

Childrens' immune systems are not one-size-fits-all - what works statistically doesn't necessarily work for an individual. If your GP is truly sensitive to needs and response, they'll advise accordingly.
 
2018-03-08 05:10:41 AM  
I need to keep my mouth shut on this subject. It is one of those forms of superstition that exceeds my threshold of tolerance, and I am unable to be civil with the superstitious, in this particular case.
So - please vaccinate your kids. Please.
That is all.
 
2018-03-08 05:31:04 AM  

LarrySouth: GOP voter...


Not more than a one in three chance.

When you look at the numbers, anti-vaxx views are pretty evenly spread across the political spectrum, nationwide. It's about the same, whether you're left-wing, independent, or right-wing.
 
2018-03-08 05:44:58 AM  

ol' gormsby: That might work, if vaccines were 100% effective. They're not. Doesn't mean people shouldn't have them, but "they would have been protected from" isn't something that any doctor can guarantee, so such waivers aren't really enforceable. Education, not coercion, is the better long-term solution. Coercion only makes people more and more determined to find doctors willing to sign exemption certificates.


Who said they were 100% effective? The point is that by deliberately not availng of them they are putting the child in danger. A seat belt isn't 100% effective either, but any parent who didn't strap their child in is endangering that child. No difference really.
 
2018-03-08 05:46:02 AM  

Theaetetus: Per the above, there was no scientific literature supporting your position until now.


I'm really not sure why you would even say something that ridiculous, since you really don't need literature about

* her gut feeling does not in any way supersede the medical knowledge and experience of tens of thousands of medical professionals worldwide

* [her gut feeling] is in no way based on any scientific literature

Those are straight up facts; I made no other claims.

That said, I will always take "no literature, but the opinions of tens of thousands with (collectively) centuries worth of experience and training" over "no literature, but one soccer mom's gut feeling".
 
2018-03-08 05:53:56 AM  

ol' gormsby: If there's one thing I've learned about parenthood ...


Oh, like I said, I didn't say she was wrong -- I just said she wasn't right.

So long as a person doesn't cause harm (and, as I said, I didn't feel that her actions endangered them any) I don't honestly care what people do. I just pointed out that her actions were based solely on "gut" and not any actual facts.
 
2018-03-08 06:14:10 AM  
It's actually very possible.  It doesn't hurt the child, but it can make the vaccines ineffective.  If you got all your childhood shots on the same day, including all your booster shots, who knows what you'd actually end up immune to.  That's why vaccine schedules exist, and should be followed.

There is some cool tech coming up that might fix the issue though, through timed releases of the vaccinations.  You get one shot, giving you tiny capsules in your arm that open on schedule.  Takes human error & laziness out of the equation... pretty cool.
 
2018-03-08 06:43:16 AM  
Unfortunately, you can't change the minds of antivaxers. They read one article that said it was bad for children and that is all their little brains could absorb. It does not matter that this study was proved to be wrong. They just can't fit anything else. There minds are closed for business.
 
2018-03-08 06:55:17 AM  

mr_larry: I'm not an anti-vaxer and I have no children. I would like to point out that I came down with a very rare disease in kindergarten that was a reaction from my immune system shortly after I received all of my vaccinations to attend school. It's called  Henoch-Schönlein purpura, and it mostly strikes young children, boys in particular. The disease was featured in an episode of "House M.D." in the final season.
The doctors though I might have an appendix that was about to explode so they performed emergency surgery on me. They took out my appendix while they were in there, and they pulled out all of my intestines while they were in there to look for any blockage. I ended up getting Walking Pneumonia and spent more than 6 weeks in the hospital.
My Purpura symptoms didn't show up until the morning after my surgery. My main symptoms were joint pain and nausea.
To this day, I believe the disease may have been triggered by the vaccinations I received before attending kindergarten.



You said all that, and then in the last sentence you say "...I believe the disease may have been triggered by the vaccinations..."

So, just to be clear, were you actually diagnosed with something related to vaccines?  Or are you basing this off the gut feelings of a 4 year old.
 
2018-03-08 06:59:29 AM  

binkius: However, the human body was never designed to handle the vaccination scheduling seen today.


The human body wasn't "designed" to handle any vaccinations at all.  Scientists had to develop them, and design them to be used in the human body - ie, the other way around.

That's like saying the "the El Camino was never designed to handle the fuzzy dice on the rear view mirror seen today" uh, yeah.  Thanks for the valuable input there.  You're right, the design plans for the El Camino never involved fuzzy dice.  Fuzzy dice, instead, were designed to fit the El Camino.
 
2018-03-08 07:02:23 AM  

ol' gormsby: soon realise that your own instincts


some people have pretty bad instincts.
 
2018-03-08 07:04:03 AM  

drxym: ol' gormsby: That might work, if vaccines were 100% effective. They're not. Doesn't mean people shouldn't have them, but "they would have been protected from" isn't something that any doctor can guarantee, so such waivers aren't really enforceable. Education, not coercion, is the better long-term solution. Coercion only makes people more and more determined to find doctors willing to sign exemption certificates.

Who said they were 100% effective? The point is that by deliberately not availng of them they are putting the child in danger. A seat belt isn't 100% effective either, but any parent who didn't strap their child in is endangering that child. No difference really.


You're asking for legal recourse, or legal enforcement. So you'd better make yourself familiar with what a court will decide. What court decisions can you quote that will establish that a vaccine will have - beyond reasonable doubt, the standard expected of any criminal proceedings - prevented a death?

Hint - none. Otherwise we'd have seen it already.

You cannot prove vaccination would have prevented any death from vaccine-related diseases, and that's what anti-vaxxers pin their arguments on. You're not going to convince the rabid anti-vaxxers otherwise by arguing on their level. Your energy would be better spent on education, rather than coercion.

Coercion doesn't work - just think about alcohol prohibition, and the 'war-on-drugs'.
 
2018-03-08 07:15:22 AM  

ArcadianRefugee: LarrySouth: GOP voter...

I've a friend who's one of the libbiest libs to ever have libbed.  She once explained to me why she spaced her kids' vaccinations more than might otherwise be recommended.  I pointed out that her gut feeling does not in any way supersede the medical knowledge and experience of tens of thousands of medical professionals worldwide and that, while her actions may not have been harmful to her kids immunities, it in no way was based on any scientific literature.  I got the old, "Well, it just seems to me that...".

Ugh.


The anti-vaxxer nutter problem is definitely not exclusive to GOP or Dems.  Both groups have their crazies, particularly where this is concerned.
 
2018-03-08 07:18:02 AM  

ArcadianRefugee: ol' gormsby: If there's one thing I've learned about parenthood ...

Oh, like I said, I didn't say she was wrong -- I just said she wasn't right.

So long as a person doesn't cause harm (and, as I said, I didn't feel that her actions endangered them any) I don't honestly care what people do. I just pointed out that her actions were based solely on "gut" and not any actual facts.


Apropos of nothing, your nick keeps triggering The Band's "Acadian Driftwood" in my head. It's a great song, and one I don't mind being reminded of.
 
2018-03-08 07:46:32 AM  
If the threat of autism isn't working then the anti-vaxxers move on to another made-up reason.
 
2018-03-08 07:47:13 AM  
Technically...
img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2018-03-08 07:47:48 AM  
Kids' immune systems will not be "overloaded," as some argue

No, they don't argue.  They fret.  To argue implies that your ideas have some factual basis and some actionable goal.  "I feel like too many vaccines at once is bad" is not an argument.
 
2018-03-08 07:49:13 AM  

IamAwake: binkius: However, the human body was never designed to handle the vaccination scheduling seen today.

The human body wasn't "designed" to handle any vaccinations at all.  Scientists had to develop them, and design them to be used in the human body - ie, the other way around.

That's like saying the "the El Camino was never designed to handle the fuzzy dice on the rear view mirror seen today" uh, yeah.  Thanks for the valuable input there.  You're right, the design plans for the El Camino never involved fuzzy dice.  Fuzzy dice, instead, were designed to fit the El Camino.


Car analogies aren't useful when we're talking about human diseases and human lives.

But, the human body not being "designed" to handle vaccinations - it's kind of right. Think about it - you normally encounter different pathogens in various ways - respiratory, cut skin, ingestion via GI tract, etc, and your body has evolved to deal with them when those pathogens come that way. Introduce pathogens (even dead ones) from a different vector and you may be asking too much. A respiratory disease vaccine introduced via subcutaneous injection might not be the best way to do it.
 
2018-03-08 07:59:05 AM  
I have a close friend who is an anti-vaxer. Her daughter is 5.5 years old and in her last year of pre-school. I haven't asked her (not particularly keen on that conversation) what she plans to do now, because to go to school, we have vaccination requirements... maybe she will try to get some exemption, I don't know.

She's not in any way politically questionable. She's just scared. She herself has terrible health problems (had something like 9 operations in 3 years) and unfortunately didn't have the best experience with the healthcare system either. She's not crazy, but in this particular area, she's acting very stupid. I haven't said anything to her but I am really surprised that her paediatrician lets her get away with this.
 
2018-03-08 08:01:15 AM  
IamAwake:The human body wasn't "designed" to handle any vaccinations at all.  Scientists had to develop them, and design them to be used in the human body - ie, the other way around.

The human body was designed/evolved to fight off viral infections. Vaccinations with live/dead viruses trigger the antibody response that leads to immunization.

Basically everything alive has been designed to fight off viruses. Vaccination is getting a virus in your body.

What we weren't designed/evolved to fight off was 7 or 8 life-threatening viruses at the same time (probably because you'd be dead by number 2 or 3 if they were real, live, fully functioning viruses).

From the first vaccinations with small pox, the methodology hasn't changed much. Use a virus to trigger an immune response that leads to immunization. The first vaccinations weren't designed or made by scientists. They simply just infected you with a (related fairly benign) virus to give you immunity (to a much more dangerous virus).

Viral immunization has been in our immune system's toolbox long before medicine figured out how to mimic and target the process.
 
2018-03-08 08:05:37 AM  

ecmoRandomNumbers: Only if you get them ALL in one f*cking day.

Otherwise, your kid will be just fine and won't die of diseases that killed kids 100 years ago. I'm a firm believer in obligatory quarantines if you're not going to vaccinate your kid. If you're not going to vaccinate, it has to be kept away from the herd. You be crazy and be a rugged individual, but you do it at home. And if you need to go out, you get a Silkwood scrubdown and a hazmat suit before you're allowed to go to Whole Foods and get your gluten-free gummi bears.


There's no problem giving them all the same day either other than perhaps some soreness. At every age milestone where x, y, and z vaccines were recommended, I went once and got x, y, and z vaccines. My broke assed worthless parental units were annoyed enough at having to take me to the clinic once, they sure as shiat were not making more than one trip. That continued even into the military. I, along with hundreds of others, walked through a gauntlet of medics lined up on both sides either jamming needles into our arms or blasting them with a gun.  Vaccines don't somehow magically combine into some poisonous cocktail in the body.
 
2018-03-08 08:14:28 AM  

Leandros A: her paediatrician lets her get away with this.


Well, her paediatrician isn't the one who makes the decision.
 
2018-03-08 08:19:48 AM  

Benjimin_Dover: There's no problem giving them all the same day either other than perhaps some soreness.


You couldn't be more wrong. If you want to convince doubters, please use facts.
 
2018-03-08 08:21:30 AM  

ol' gormsby: Leandros A: her paediatrician lets her get away with this.

Well, her paediatrician isn't the one who makes the decision.


I don't know what their relationship is like, but I tried to get my dog a vaccination that was contraindicated for the dog and my vet spent time going over charts and studies with me to show me why it was better not to get that particular vaccine and how the outcomes were worse for geographical reasons and the vaccine was developed for dogs in a different area. And that was a farking veterinarian. I would expect a paediatrician to put heavy pressure on since the child can't make the decision for herself. It makes me question the paediatrician's ability to counsel his patients properly if he can't change her mind on this or didn't bother to try. But I don't know the details.
 
2018-03-08 08:29:54 AM  

Leandros A: ol' gormsby: Leandros A: her paediatrician lets her get away with this.

Well, her paediatrician isn't the one who makes the decision.

I don't know what their relationship is like, but I tried to get my dog a vaccination that was contraindicated for the dog and my vet spent time going over charts and studies with me to show me why it was better not to get that particular vaccine and how the outcomes were worse for geographical reasons and the vaccine was developed for dogs in a different area. And that was a farking veterinarian. I would expect a paediatrician to put heavy pressure on since the child can't make the decision for herself. It makes me question the paediatrician's ability to counsel his patients properly if he can't change her mind on this or didn't bother to try. But I don't know the details.


Again, it's not the doctor's decision. He/she is, essentially, paid to advise - they can't make you do anything.

Hell, if a veterinarian can exercise that kind of judgement, why can't a paediatrician? shiat - "this doesn't seem right for you, given the circumstances"    Why is that wrong?
 
2018-03-08 08:34:55 AM  

ol' gormsby: it's kind of right.


No, it's 100% correct.  Absolutely nothing during human evolution planned for, or had designs for, receiving vaccination shots.  My wife has developed a couple vaccines herself; I'm not directly aware of all the details, but I'm certainly close to it.
 
2018-03-08 08:41:00 AM  

ol' gormsby: Benjimin_Dover: There's no problem giving them all the same day either other than perhaps some soreness.

You couldn't be more wrong. If you want to convince doubters, please use facts.


We're at a stage of knowing what we don't know - facts are hard to come by.  My wife is an epigeneticist (still does some vet stuff on the side) that studies how memory T cells are actually formed, and how the immune system adapts to something something morphology of the thing and stuff she loses me pretty quick because she has multiple doctorates and I don't.  It's a very new field of study, and there's very little understanding of how it actually works.

But yes, you most certainly shouldn't take them all at once.
 
2018-03-08 08:44:48 AM  

ol' gormsby: Leandros A: ol' gormsby: Leandros A: her paediatrician lets her get away with this.

Well, her paediatrician isn't the one who makes the decision.

I don't know what their relationship is like, but I tried to get my dog a vaccination that was contraindicated for the dog and my vet spent time going over charts and studies with me to show me why it was better not to get that particular vaccine and how the outcomes were worse for geographical reasons and the vaccine was developed for dogs in a different area. And that was a farking veterinarian. I would expect a paediatrician to put heavy pressure on since the child can't make the decision for herself. It makes me question the paediatrician's ability to counsel his patients properly if he can't change her mind on this or didn't bother to try. But I don't know the details.

Again, it's not the doctor's decision. He/she is, essentially, paid to advise - they can't make you do anything.

Hell, if a veterinarian can exercise that kind of judgement, why can't a paediatrician? shiat - "this doesn't seem right for you, given the circumstances"    Why is that wrong?


I get that. I'm just saying that he (I'm pretty sure it's a man) isn't good at his job if he can't even convince a parent to vaccinate her kid. I haven't delved into it in depth with her because truly I do not want to go there. I only know what she's told me unprompted because I don't ask further questions to get more details, largely because I know I would reveal my own opinion on it, and as I myself am not a doctor, I just don't want to put myself in that position.

The veterinarian was doing his job: he counseled me correcty not to get the vaccine, and wasn't going to give it to my dog anyway. He just wanted to make sure I understood why he wasn't going to do it. Obviously there's a huge difference between a doctor refusing to do something, and a doctor overriding a parent's wishes to do something, but my point was about the counselling aspect: he took the time and energy to explain in detail why that particular vaccine was developed for Spanish dogs and why it actually raises the risk for dogs here, and he had studies to back it up. I was convinced because he took the time and showed me the data and explained it. I was worried about my dog, I didn't want my dog to get sick. I had gone in with the intent of getting what I thought was best for my dog. Same as my friend with her kid. The difference seems to be that the vet convinced me because he is good at his job.

I'm saying that the paediatrician probably didn't try that hard to convince her to let him vaccinate her kid. Unless you think that there are circumstances where healthy kids shouldn't be vaccinated?
 
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