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(Washington Post)   This is great news for your 401(k) - you can now buy an index fund comprising all the major imaginary currencies   ( washingtonpost.com) divider line
    More: Stupid  
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704 clicks; posted to Business » on 07 Mar 2018 at 6:05 PM (32 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2018-03-07 05:53:54 PM  
Index fund of major imaginary currencies. In my 401k? Ah, no.
 
2018-03-07 06:09:21 PM  
I will offer you even cheaper rates on the naughtyrev ETF. NREV is the symbol. Just send me a check and I will plow all your money in to imaginary currencies. Promise.
 
2018-03-07 06:18:46 PM  
*sigh* this isn't a hard concept

the us dollar is backed by a 20 trillion economy and like 120 trillion in wealth.

Bitcoin has nothing backing it up but cult fever

the end
 
2018-03-07 06:26:48 PM  

links136: *sigh* this isn't a hard concept

the us dollar is backed by a 20 trillion economy and like 120 trillion in wealth.

Bitcoin has nothing backing it up but cult fever

the end


But come on, man, like, if everyone stopped believing in the United States, the USD would become worthless, too.
 
2018-03-07 06:28:23 PM  

Shaggy_C: links136: *sigh* this isn't a hard concept

the us dollar is backed by a 20 trillion economy and like 120 trillion in wealth.

Bitcoin has nothing backing it up but cult fever

the end

But come on, man, like, if everyone stopped believing in the United States, the USD would become worthless, too.


If the government stopped allowing you to pay your taxes in USD, it would quickly become worthless.
 
2018-03-07 06:30:55 PM  
anditsgone.jpg
 
2018-03-07 06:31:00 PM  
I dunno. If my index fund held some of this I wouldn't mind. It is good to be diversified.
 
2018-03-07 06:38:07 PM  
Make it 1% of your portfolio.  If you lose it, no big deal.  If the prices do increase 10-fold, you get a nice 10% return on that investment.

What's the problem?
 
2018-03-07 07:03:07 PM  

AngryDragon: Make it 1% of your portfolio.  If you lose it, no big deal.  If the prices do increase 10-fold, you get a nice 10% return on that investment.

What's the problem?


Because it's almost certain that all of these will go to zero within the time horizon of a retirement account.
 
2018-03-07 07:12:22 PM  

BMFPitt: AngryDragon: Make it 1% of your portfolio.  If you lose it, no big deal.  If the prices do increase 10-fold, you get a nice 10% return on that investment.

What's the problem?

Because it's almost certain that all of these will go to zero within the time horizon of a retirement account.


Actually, with what's about to start happening in the short term, you might be in for a hell of a return investment just within the next 2 years. Get in for 2, sell, pocket the extra 19%.
 
2018-03-07 07:28:17 PM  
Such diverse. Many risk. So fundamentals.
 
2018-03-07 07:32:21 PM  

Inebriated Bolshevik Muppet: Actually, with what's about to start happening in the short term, you might be in for a hell of a return investment just within the next 2 years. Get in for 2, sell, pocket the extra 19%.


If I wanted to straight up gamble my retirement money, I'd at least go to Vegas and do it properly.
 
2018-03-07 07:34:01 PM  

BMFPitt: Inebriated Bolshevik Muppet: Actually, with what's about to start happening in the short term, you might be in for a hell of a return investment just within the next 2 years. Get in for 2, sell, pocket the extra 19%.

If I wanted to straight up gamble my retirement money, I'd at least go to Vegas and do it properly.


Just how else do you think unscrupulous people are going to pay for tariffed goods?
 
2018-03-07 07:52:31 PM  

Inebriated Bolshevik Muppet: BMFPitt: Inebriated Bolshevik Muppet: Actually, with what's about to start happening in the short term, you might be in for a hell of a return investment just within the next 2 years. Get in for 2, sell, pocket the extra 19%.

If I wanted to straight up gamble my retirement money, I'd at least go to Vegas and do it properly.

Just how else do you think unscrupulous people are going to pay for tariffed goods?


Showerthought: If BTC becomes the reserve currency, and something like ETH/XMR become the medium of exchange, you could consider BTC as a fixed percentage stake in the underground economy. If the underground economy is, say, 10% of the world's GDP - smaller percentage of GDP in large industrialized countries, larger percentage of GDP in the backwater nations of the planet, but let's just go with 10% - then 1 BTC is 1/21,000,000th of that, or 1/210,000,000th of Gross World Production. Assuming a gross world product of $100T, 1 BTC would be worth about $5000. That's actually not too far off (i.e., within an order of magnitude) from where it ended up.
 
2018-03-07 08:04:56 PM  
Believing in Bitcoin is one thing, but betting on the whole lot of them?  That's quite a lot of stupid for a portfolio.
 
2018-03-07 08:05:29 PM  

Twilight Farkle: Inebriated Bolshevik Muppet: BMFPitt: Inebriated Bolshevik Muppet: Actually, with what's about to start happening in the short term, you might be in for a hell of a return investment just within the next 2 years. Get in for 2, sell, pocket the extra 19%.

If I wanted to straight up gamble my retirement money, I'd at least go to Vegas and do it properly.

Just how else do you think unscrupulous people are going to pay for tariffed goods?

Showerthought: If BTC becomes the reserve currency, and something like ETH/XMR become the medium of exchange, you could consider BTC as a fixed percentage stake in the underground economy. If the underground economy is, say, 10% of the world's GDP - smaller percentage of GDP in large industrialized countries, larger percentage of GDP in the backwater nations of the planet, but let's just go with 10% - then 1 BTC is 1/21,000,000th of that, or 1/210,000,000th of Gross World Production. Assuming a gross world product of $100T, 1 BTC would be worth about $5000. That's actually not too far off (i.e., within an order of magnitude) from where it ended up.


It gets a little tricky because BTC has a cap of 21,000,000, but hasn't reached that yet. We're just under 17,000,000 BTC having been unlocked. And it's GOING to double at least once before it hits the cap.
 
2018-03-07 08:09:34 PM  
There is such thing as being TOO diversified.  One crypto taking off would be ruined by the rest.
 
2018-03-07 08:10:01 PM  

Marcus Aurelius: Believing in Bitcoin is one thing, but betting on the whole lot of them?  That's quite a lot of stupid for a portfolio.


it's rare you write something intelligent but this is spot-on.
 
2018-03-07 08:16:36 PM  

Inebriated Bolshevik Muppet: Twilight Farkle: Inebriated Bolshevik Muppet: BMFPitt: Inebriated Bolshevik Muppet: Actually, with what's about to start happening in the short term, you might be in for a hell of a return investment just within the next 2 years. Get in for 2, sell, pocket the extra 19%.

If I wanted to straight up gamble my retirement money, I'd at least go to Vegas and do it properly.

Just how else do you think unscrupulous people are going to pay for tariffed goods?

Showerthought: If BTC becomes the reserve currency, and something like ETH/XMR become the medium of exchange, you could consider BTC as a fixed percentage stake in the underground economy. If the underground economy is, say, 10% of the world's GDP - smaller percentage of GDP in large industrialized countries, larger percentage of GDP in the backwater nations of the planet, but let's just go with 10% - then 1 BTC is 1/21,000,000th of that, or 1/210,000,000th of Gross World Production. Assuming a gross world product of $100T, 1 BTC would be worth about $5000. That's actually not too far off (i.e., within an order of magnitude) from where it ended up.

It gets a little tricky because BTC has a cap of 21,000,000, but hasn't reached that yet. We're just under 17,000,000 BTC having been unlocked. And it's GOING to double at least once before it hits the cap.


That and while currently BTC currently has a market cap of about $170B, the total market cap for all currencies currently sits at around $400B.
 
2018-03-07 08:21:16 PM  

Twilight Farkle: Inebriated Bolshevik Muppet: BMFPitt: Inebriated Bolshevik Muppet: Actually, with what's about to start happening in the short term, you might be in for a hell of a return investment just within the next 2 years. Get in for 2, sell, pocket the extra 19%.

If I wanted to straight up gamble my retirement money, I'd at least go to Vegas and do it properly.

Just how else do you think unscrupulous people are going to pay for tariffed goods?

Showerthought: If BTC becomes the reserve currency, and something like ETH/XMR become the medium of exchange, you could consider BTC as a fixed percentage stake in the underground economy. If the underground economy is, say, 10% of the world's GDP - smaller percentage of GDP in large industrialized countries, larger percentage of GDP in the backwater nations of the planet, but let's just go with 10% - then 1 BTC is 1/21,000,000th of that, or 1/210,000,000th of Gross World Production. Assuming a gross world product of $100T, 1 BTC would be worth about $5000. That's actually not too far off (i.e., within an order of magnitude) from where it ended up.


AND, as well, BTC isn't going to be the reserve currency, there's already ways to trace transactions. It's going to end up being one of the quantum-proof currencies that ends up being the reserve (if that happens). If anything BTC will be the one all the governments "sanction" because they can ultimately trace it down. One of the DAG currencies will ultimately win out
 
2018-03-07 08:29:01 PM  
When's the the last time you physically saw the money sitting in your bank account?  Cryptocurrencies are the way of the future -- Subby just doesn't realize it yet.
 
2018-03-07 08:40:08 PM  
img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2018-03-07 08:40:09 PM  

HempHead: Shaggy_C: links136: *sigh* this isn't a hard concept

the us dollar is backed by a 20 trillion economy and like 120 trillion in wealth.

Bitcoin has nothing backing it up but cult fever

the end

But come on, man, like, if everyone stopped believing in the United States, the USD would become worthless, too.

If the government stopped allowing you to pay your taxes in USD, it would quickly become worthless.


I don't think so. If the government replaced "old dollars" with "new dollars", AND refused to exchange the old dollars for new, people could still circulate the old dollars unless that was illegal and punished with getting your hand chopped off or something. Which would be totally unprecedented - it's pretty unthinkable that they wouldn't exchange the old money for new.

The fact that US dollars are circulated to some extent in other countries, where they obviously cannot be used to pay taxes, is proof that being legal tender for government payments is not absolutely necessary for a currency.

What makes the US dollar more useful than bitcoin is that millions of people use it for commerce, which is related to the government accepting it, but not quite the same exact thing.
 
2018-03-07 08:45:58 PM  

AngryDragon: Make it 1% of your portfolio.  If you lose it, no big deal.  If the prices do increase 10-fold, you get a nice 10% return on that investment.

What's the problem?


It would tie up money I could be investing in Beanie Baby futures.
 
2018-03-07 08:46:41 PM  

Shaggy_C: links136: *sigh* this isn't a hard concept

the us dollar is backed by a 20 trillion economy and like 120 trillion in wealth.

Bitcoin has nothing backing it up but cult fever

the end

But come on, man, like, if everyone stopped believing in the United States, the USD would become worthless, too.


This is my absolute favorite argument, because the people who make it invariably fail to realize that the only scenario where the world loses complete confidence involves blue jumpsuits for anyone lucky enough to get a spot in a vault, and hot fiery death for everyone else.
 
2018-03-07 08:54:23 PM  

sinko swimo: Marcus Aurelius: Believing in Bitcoin is one thing, but betting on the whole lot of them?  That's quite a lot of stupid for a portfolio.

it's rare you write something intelligent but this is spot-on.


It's good to see you be right too for a change.
 
2018-03-07 08:59:27 PM  
Oh good. It'll go along with my imaginary retirement
 
2018-03-07 09:08:15 PM  

clancifer: When's the the last time you physically saw the money sitting in your bank account?  Cryptocurrencies are the way of the future -- Subby just doesn't realize it yet.


What does crypto have to do with online banking?

If the biggest point you take away from crypto currency is that it's an electronic ledger, you're in for a surprise.
 
2018-03-07 09:46:41 PM  

clancifer: When's the the last time you physically saw the money sitting in your bank account?  Cryptocurrencies are the way of the future -- Subby just doesn't realize it yet.


Too volatile and backed by nothing. That's not a currency, that's a speculative commodity.
 
2018-03-07 10:08:53 PM  
Fidelity targeting the untapped  Millenial 401k market?
 
2018-03-07 10:34:26 PM  
Gold pressed latinum?
 
2018-03-07 10:42:17 PM  

HempHead: Shaggy_C: links136: *sigh* this isn't a hard concept

the us dollar is backed by a 20 trillion economy and like 120 trillion in wealth.

Bitcoin has nothing backing it up but cult fever

the end

But come on, man, like, if everyone stopped believing in the United States, the USD would become worthless, too.

If the government stopped allowing you to pay your taxes in USD, it would quickly become worthless.


If the government had trouble paying back its debt and needed to print huge amounts of currency from thin air in an attempt to do so,  it would quickly become worth less.
 
2018-03-07 10:48:19 PM  

itcamefromschenectady: HempHead: Shaggy_C: links136: *sigh* this isn't a hard concept

the us dollar is backed by a 20 trillion economy and like 120 trillion in wealth.

Bitcoin has nothing backing it up but cult fever

the end

But come on, man, like, if everyone stopped believing in the United States, the USD would become worthless, too.

If the government stopped allowing you to pay your taxes in USD, it would quickly become worthless.

I don't think so. If the government replaced "old dollars" with "new dollars", AND refused to exchange the old dollars for new, people could still circulate the old dollars unless that was illegal and punished with getting your hand chopped off or something. Which would be totally unprecedented - it's pretty unthinkable that they wouldn't exchange the old money for new.


That idea has been floated by the treasury department.  They would refuse to exchange the money of drug dealers, thieves, tax scofflaws and drug cartels.
 
2018-03-07 10:53:48 PM  

itcamefromschenectady: HempHead: Shaggy_C: links136: *sigh* this isn't a hard concept

the us dollar is backed by a 20 trillion economy and like 120 trillion in wealth.

Bitcoin has nothing backing it up but cult fever

the end

But come on, man, like, if everyone stopped believing in the United States, the USD would become worthless, too.

If the government stopped allowing you to pay your taxes in USD, it would quickly become worthless.

I don't think so. If the government replaced "old dollars" with "new dollars", AND refused to exchange the old dollars for new, people could still circulate the old dollars unless that was illegal and punished with getting your hand chopped off or something. Which would be totally unprecedented - it's pretty unthinkable that they wouldn't exchange the old money for new.

The fact that US dollars are circulated to some extent in other countries, where they obviously cannot be used to pay taxes, is proof that being legal tender for government payments is not absolutely necessary for a currency.

What makes the US dollar more useful than bitcoin is that millions of people use it for commerce, which is related to the government accepting it, but not quite the same exact thing.


Many countries have done exactly as you say,  exchanging Francs,  Deutschmarks,  Lira etc for Euros.  or Old Pounds and Shillings into New pounds and pence, and after a brief period of being able to exchange them, declared them not legal tender and now refuse to exchange them.  None of the old currency has any liquidity or inherent value except as a collector's item.

back to the debt issue... even when the US Dollar was backed by gold, in order to pay off spiralling national debt,  FDR made private ownership of gold illegal, then devalued the dollar vs it, repeatedly, culminating in a total devaluation of around 37% before Nixon took it off the gold standard all together.
 
2018-03-07 10:56:27 PM  

TedCruz'sCrazyDad: itcamefromschenectady: HempHead: Shaggy_C: links136: *sigh* this isn't a hard concept

the us dollar is backed by a 20 trillion economy and like 120 trillion in wealth.

Bitcoin has nothing backing it up but cult fever

the end

But come on, man, like, if everyone stopped believing in the United States, the USD would become worthless, too.

If the government stopped allowing you to pay your taxes in USD, it would quickly become worthless.

I don't think so. If the government replaced "old dollars" with "new dollars", AND refused to exchange the old dollars for new, people could still circulate the old dollars unless that was illegal and punished with getting your hand chopped off or something. Which would be totally unprecedented - it's pretty unthinkable that they wouldn't exchange the old money for new.

That idea has been floated by the treasury department.  They would refuse to exchange the money of drug dealers, thieves, tax scofflaws and drug cartels.


That's flat-out illegal and Unconstitutional. In several ways. They'd have to repeal the 14th AND rewrite The Federal Reserve Act and practically everything touching the Federal Reserve since 1913.

This wasn't Mnuchin being his idiotic self again, was it?
 
2018-03-07 11:03:37 PM  

Inebriated Bolshevik Muppet: That's flat-out illegal and Unconstitutional. In several ways. They'd have to repeal the 14th AND rewrite The Federal Reserve Act and practically everything touching the Federal Reserve since 1913.


Civil Forfeiture laughs at your 14th Amendment.

Not to mention, when you make the laws, "...without due process of law" doesn't mean much.  As for the Federal Reserve Act, it literally enables the Fed to devalue the dollar in any way it sees fit (see my previous post on Gold), which effectively steals from everyone who's holding USD in their savings accounts.
 
2018-03-07 11:15:04 PM  

Marcus Aurelius: Believing in Bitcoin is one thing, but betting on the whole lot of them?  That's quite a lot of stupid for a portfolio.


Not necessarily; as far as I understand, BitCoin has a 'first mover' advantage but is in most respects completely outdated, technologically-speaking, not to mention short-sighted; to mine the final few BitCoins at current prices will require more power than is available on Earth by an order of magnitude. There's little guarantee it will be the cryptocurrency of choice six months from now, let alone in a decade.

So, what do you do if you are interested in the space but don't want all your eggs in one basket? Diversify. Much less chance for 10,000% returns, true, but also less chance of -100% return, as at least one of those cryptos will  be the 'winner' and will serve as the de facto medium of exchange for drug dealers, hackers, and neckbeards for the foreseeable future.
 
2018-03-07 11:20:02 PM  

Shaggy_C: Marcus Aurelius: Believing in Bitcoin is one thing, but betting on the whole lot of them?  That's quite a lot of stupid for a portfolio.

Not necessarily; as far as I understand, BitCoin has a 'first mover' advantage but is in most respects completely outdated, technologically-speaking, not to mention short-sighted; to mine the final few BitCoins at current prices will require more power than is available on Earth by an order of magnitude. There's little guarantee it will be the cryptocurrency of choice six months from now, let alone in a decade.

So, what do you do if you are interested in the space but don't want all your eggs in one basket? Diversify. Much less chance for 10,000% returns, true, but also less chance of -100% return, as at least one of those cryptos will  be the 'winner' and will serve as the de facto medium of exchange for drug dealers, hackers, and neckbeards for the foreseeable future.


It's going to be one of the DAG offerings on the horizon, they're the only ones so far that are more or less quantum proof.
 
2018-03-07 11:21:05 PM  

Mad_Radhu: [img.fark.net image 425x307]


img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2018-03-07 11:24:09 PM  
[series] comprise [group]
[group] is composed of [series]

It ain't hard.
 
2018-03-07 11:46:27 PM  
Subby, why are you so conservative?  Do new things scare you?
 
2018-03-08 12:08:09 AM  

clancifer: When's the the last time you physically saw the money sitting in your bank account?  Cryptocurrencies are the way of the future -- Subby just doesn't realize it yet.


be careful how much of your hard earned fortune you gamble. there are a lot of snake oil salesmen around crypto. and just like during the great gold rush, many of the only people making $$$ are the ones selling picks, axes and wheelbarrows.
 
2018-03-08 03:39:18 AM  

yakmans_dad: [series] comprise [group]
[group] is composed of [series]

It ain't hard.


Group comprises members.
Members compose group.
Group is composed of members.
 
2018-03-08 06:23:26 AM  
Four coins out of a couple hundred in a growing space...and they're call it an index fund?
 
2018-03-08 09:13:43 AM  

Mad_Radhu: [img.fark.net image 425x307]


img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2018-03-08 09:26:01 AM  

Monkeyfark Ridiculous: yakmans_dad: [series] comprise [group]
[group] is composed of [series]

It ain't hard.

Group comprises members.
Members compose group.
Group is composed of members.


I don't know why I try.
 
2018-03-08 09:44:01 AM  
This seems like a terrible idea
 
2018-03-08 10:07:56 AM  

Parthenogenetic: Mad_Radhu: [img.fark.net image 425x307]

[img.fark.net image 700x523]


Fark needs an "Adorable" button.
 
2018-03-08 01:35:29 PM  

Parthenogenetic: Mad_Radhu: [img.fark.net image 425x307]

[img.fark.net image 700x523]


That deserves a caption.

img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2018-03-08 04:45:51 PM  

yakmans_dad: Monkeyfark Ridiculous: yakmans_dad: [series] comprise [group]
[group] is composed of [series]

It ain't hard.

Group comprises members.
Members compose group.
Group is composed of members.

I don't know why I try.


Probably because you haven't checked a dictionary or style guide.
 
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