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(Fox 40 Sacramento)   Farmers fear immigration crackdown could devastate California agriculture, leave Keebler elf with only productive tree   ( fox40.com) divider line
    More: Obvious, Jaimie Johansson, sutter county, conservative immigration die-hards, Childhood Arrivals program, 40,000-member Calfornia Farm, United States, States work visas, farm workers  
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1200 clicks; posted to Politics » on 07 Mar 2018 at 10:20 AM (32 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2018-03-07 08:54:51 AM  
Don't complain about immigrants with your mouth full.
 
2018-03-07 09:24:03 AM  
I'm ok with an industry that has profited off of illegal business practices for years being forced to restructure their business model to comply with the law.  Some of them will be too stupid or too stubborn to figure out how to survive in the new business climate.  Their farms will fail and be bought and run by people who are smarter and more business savvy.  It's called competition, and it's OK.
 
2018-03-07 09:36:14 AM  

Lucky LaRue: I'm ok with an industry that has profited off of illegal business practices for years being forced to restructure their business model to comply with the law.


Even if that means paying double or more for the labor?
 
2018-03-07 09:40:16 AM  

FlashHarry: Lucky LaRue: I'm ok with an industry that has profited off of illegal business practices for years being forced to restructure their business model to comply with the law.

Even if that means paying double or more for the labor?


Yes, even if it means paying the California's legal minimum wage.  If you are running a business where you can't paying people a living wage, then you probably should get out of that business.
 
2018-03-07 10:02:11 AM  

Lucky LaRue: Yes, even if it means paying the California's legal minimum wage.  If you are running a business where you can't paying people a living wage, then you probably should get out of that business.


I agree with you. I just don't know if people are ready to pay $8 for a head of lettuce.

BTW, this is the same problem with rejecting globalism. Once people get used to spending $400 on a TV instead of $4,000, it's tough to get them to go back.
 
2018-03-07 10:21:51 AM  
But where are all the Americans who wanted those jobs?
 
2018-03-07 10:23:32 AM  

FlashHarry: Lucky LaRue: Yes, even if it means paying the California's legal minimum wage.  If you are running a business where you can't paying people a living wage, then you probably should get out of that business.

I agree with you. I just don't know if people are ready to pay $8 for a head of lettuce.

BTW, this is the same problem with rejecting globalism. Once people get used to spending $400 on a TV instead of $4,000, it's tough to get them to go back.


I suspect if/when this happens, it'll turn out that field labor is a rather small percentage of the final cost and businesses will suddenly find a way to pay living wages without raising prices 300%.

The downside for workers is that increasing labor costs is going to speed up the move to automation.
 
2018-03-07 10:23:58 AM  

vudukungfu: Don't complain about immigrants with your mouth full.


Why aren't the farmers that are exploiting these illegal immigrants in jail to begin with? We never would have gotten to this point.  Illegal is illegal.. and this prosecutorial discretion is not something that should exist.... if we don't have the manpower to enforce our laws... then we have way too many of them.
 
2018-03-07 10:24:05 AM  

Gyrfalcon: But where are all the Americans who wanted those jobs?


At an unemployment rate of 4.1%, there aren't actually that many American citizens out there willing to pick lettuce for minimum wage.
 
2018-03-07 10:24:07 AM  
Lettuce won't be $8.
Unless it's locally sourced organic free-range cage free lettuce.
Then maybe $5-$6.
 
2018-03-07 10:24:45 AM  

FlashHarry: Lucky LaRue: Yes, even if it means paying the California's legal minimum wage.  If you are running a business where you can't paying people a living wage, then you probably should get out of that business.

I agree with you. I just don't know if people are ready to pay $8 for a head of lettuce.

BTW, this is the same problem with rejecting globalism. Once people get used to spending $400 on a TV instead of $4,000, it's tough to get them to go back.


Will it really have that drastic of an effect? An older article thinks not: https://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate​/​2011/08/17/could-farms-survive-without​-illegal-labor/the-costs-and-benefits-​of-a-raise-for-field-workers

And even if it did, so what?
 
2018-03-07 10:25:09 AM  

Gyrfalcon: But where are all the Americans who wanted those jobs?


They don't want them because the scabs (illegals) have depressed wages.
 
2018-03-07 10:26:34 AM  
I'm pretty sure I've heard this one before, or at least very similar...

"Plantation owners fear emancipation could devastate Southern agriculture"
 
2018-03-07 10:26:41 AM  

FlashHarry: Lucky LaRue: Yes, even if it means paying the California's legal minimum wage.  If you are running a business where you can't paying people a living wage, then you probably should get out of that business.

I agree with you. I just don't know if people are ready to pay $8 for a head of lettuce.

BTW, this is the same problem with rejecting globalism. Once people get used to spending $400 on a TV instead of $4,000, it's tough to get them to go back.


I'm ready for it. It's a shame we all have to suffer because so many people refused to see the practical impact of their bigotry, but those people won't learn any other way. Just as they won't learn why trade wars are bad until the cost of everything they want to buy goes up and their local manufacturers start laying people off.
 
2018-03-07 10:26:52 AM  

dwrash: vudukungfu: Don't complain about immigrants with your mouth full.

Why aren't the farmers that are exploiting these illegal immigrants in jail to begin with? We never would have gotten to this point.  Illegal is illegal.. and this prosecutorial discretion is not something that should exist.... if we don't have the manpower to enforce our laws... then we have way too many of them.


You know how many cops would need to exist to write a speeding ticket for every single person who speeds, every single time?  A huge farkton number of cops.

There are tons of laws that are mostly ignored.  Some should be repealed, but some exist for some very good reasons, even if enforcement is scattershot.
 
2018-03-07 10:27:22 AM  

vudukungfu: Don't complain about immigrants with your mouth full.


Seriously, stop voting Republican you racist tools.
 
2018-03-07 10:27:34 AM  
Doesn't this article come out every harvest/planting season? When do the effects start actually appearing?
 
2018-03-07 10:27:57 AM  

GoldSpider: I'm pretty sure I've heard this one before, or at least very similar...

"Plantation owners fear emancipation could devastate Southern agriculture"


i.imgur.comView Full Size
 
2018-03-07 10:28:20 AM  

rustypouch: FlashHarry: Lucky LaRue: Yes, even if it means paying the California's legal minimum wage.  If you are running a business where you can't paying people a living wage, then you probably should get out of that business.

I agree with you. I just don't know if people are ready to pay $8 for a head of lettuce.

BTW, this is the same problem with rejecting globalism. Once people get used to spending $400 on a TV instead of $4,000, it's tough to get them to go back.

Will it really have that drastic of an effect? An older article thinks not: https://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/​2011/08/17/could-farms-survive-without​-illegal-labor/the-costs-and-benefits-​of-a-raise-for-field-workers

And even if it did, so what?


Get a load of this guy.
 
2018-03-07 10:28:22 AM  

Geotpf: At an unemployment rate of 4.1%, there aren't actually that many American citizens out there willing to pick lettuce for minimum any wage.


FTFY
 
2018-03-07 10:28:59 AM  
Difficulty: it's a ganja tree.
 
2018-03-07 10:29:30 AM  
Given that most farmers are conservatives, seeing all the "Pelosi caused this" signs on HWY-5 and "State of Jefferson" signs: f**k them all.  I hope they go bankrupt just like their god Trump.

And yes, I can easily pay $8 for a head of lettuce.
 
2018-03-07 10:30:25 AM  

dwrash: Why aren't the farmers that are exploiting these illegal immigrants in jail to begin with?


Because they are rich and white, and because Trumpanzees would rather build walls and deport Dreamers than go after the actual culprits.
 
2018-03-07 10:30:34 AM  
We should be sending our under-educated teens to pick the lettuce so they can afford their life-saving guns!
 
2018-03-07 10:30:54 AM  

Geotpf: There are tons of laws that are mostly ignored.  Some should be repealed, but some exist for some very good reasons, even if enforcement is scattershot.


In which category do you put the exploitation of migrant workers who have no legal protections?
 
2018-03-07 10:31:20 AM  
Pay workers more. Move a percentage of meat subsidies to produce. Problem solved.
 
2018-03-07 10:31:49 AM  

Lucky LaRue: FlashHarry: Lucky LaRue: I'm ok with an industry that has profited off of illegal business practices for years being forced to restructure their business model to comply with the law.

Even if that means paying double or more for the labor?

Yes, even if it means paying the California's legal minimum wage.  If you are running a business where you can't paying people a living wage, then you probably should get out of that business.


I'm surprised to hear that from you.

I completely agree. Any company that relies on illegal immigrants for labor should be fined into oblivion, and the owners should all be executed. They are practicing slavery.

That's what is so interesting about the "NO ILLEGALS!" mantra you hear from conservatives. They NEED the illegals. And, in fact, they will keep hiring them. They just want to make sure that the illegal laborers they hire have NO RIGHTS, because that will make them into true slaves. They hate the idea of illegal immigrants somehow becoming legal immigrants, because that makes them too expensive.
 
2018-03-07 10:32:03 AM  
1.Farmers voted for Trump
2.Farmer's like illegals picking the crops, because they work hard, they can pay them shiat, and treat them like shiat.
3.Farmers receive subsidies and tax breaks for not doing shiat
4.Farmers are now upset that they are going to to get eaten alive by this trade war for their crops.

Why should farmers complain?

They do not pay their workers, treat them like shiat, so they hire illegals.

Farmers depend on government help to make them wealthy(see Richard Spencer the white supremacist)

Farmers like that money check they get from selling their shiat to other countries, but now they are gonna get hosed on that.

Narrator: Farmers, you got what you asked for.
 
2018-03-07 10:32:25 AM  

GoldSpider: Geotpf: There are tons of laws that are mostly ignored.  Some should be repealed, but some exist for some very good reasons, even if enforcement is scattershot.

In which category do you put the exploitation of migrant workers who have no legal protections?


I'll take Things Republican Politicians Pretend Not to Like for $500, Alex.
 
2018-03-07 10:32:28 AM  
You should have voted for Trump, California. But since you didn't, you must be punished.
 
2018-03-07 10:32:30 AM  

rosebud_the_sled: And yes, I can easily pay $8 for a head of lettuce.


"I've got mine, so fark you!"  It's not just for Republicans anymore.
 
2018-03-07 10:33:34 AM  
It only works if ALL the farms use legal workers at a wage that will attract workers, because then it stabilizes the costs upward.
Then farms can cover the higher costs as they sell crops to distributers.
But if only some raise thier wages, they will get boned when distributers buy crops at the prices set by farms that use illegal labor.
 
2018-03-07 10:33:41 AM  

GoldSpider: rosebud_the_sled: And yes, I can easily pay $8 for a head of lettuce.

"I've got mine, so fark you!"  It's not just for Republicans anymore.


Except that we tried the whole outreach, health care, retaining, etc and they instead voted Fascist.

fark em
 
2018-03-07 10:34:19 AM  

Epoch_Zero: GoldSpider: I'm pretty sure I've heard this one before, or at least very similar...

"Plantation owners fear emancipation could devastate Southern agriculture"

[i.imgur.com image 823x640]


Oh, I'm sure there was at least a Bill of Lading involved.
 
2018-03-07 10:34:48 AM  

Rand Paul's Anus is Leaking: I'll take Things Republican Politicians Pretend Not to Like for $500, Alex.


"Enforce the existing laws!!!  ....except that one!"
 
2018-03-07 10:37:59 AM  
And we just found the one thing that could mess up my retirement. I work for a wholesale produce company.
Even when the economy tanked, we still did fairly well
But, a massive increase in the cost of fruits and vegetables would mean we have to cut costs else where. Probably cutting hours, or staff.
 
2018-03-07 10:38:35 AM  

Gyrfalcon: But where are all the Americans who wanted those jobs?


Cletus won't pick blueberries for $8 a day
 
2018-03-07 10:39:58 AM  

dwrash: Gyrfalcon: But where are all the Americans who wanted those jobs?

They don't want them because the scabs (illegals) have depressed wages.


You know who pays "depressed" wages?  The business owners.  They are the ones depressing the wages.
 
2018-03-07 10:40:17 AM  

LarryDan43: You should have voted for Trump, California. But since you didn't, you must be punished.


The Central Valley agricultural community is predominately Republican.
 
2018-03-07 10:40:59 AM  
I don't necessarily have a problem with cracking down in this context aside from thinking it's a pointless waste of resources that could be better used elsewhere.

The bigger issue I have is that Americans don't want to do this work for minimum wage, 60 hours a week seasonally with no benefits. You can certainly get Americans to do this work, but then the same people who were about gettin' the illegals out will biatch and piss and moan when the price of a pound of grapes goes from $2.50 to $5.00.

Cracking down on illegal immigration outside of those immigrants who commit crimes is, as always, just another example of a few racist dimwits shooting all of is in the foot so they can STIGIT to minorities.
 
2018-03-07 10:41:43 AM  

Lucky LaRue: FlashHarry: Lucky LaRue: I'm ok with an industry that has profited off of illegal business practices for years being forced to restructure their business model to comply with the law.

Even if that means paying double or more for the labor?

Yes, even if it means paying the California's legal minimum wage.  If you are running a business where you can't paying people a living wage, then you probably should get out of that business.


What's hilarious is that often those workers are pulling $11-12/hr. Fruit and vegetable picking is skilled labor.

So the only thing you really have a problem with is the illegal laborers. So the question is...

Would you support immigration reform that made these people legal?
 
2018-03-07 10:42:53 AM  
Between this and the steel/aluminum tariffs, Americans better get ready to pay $5 dollars for a can of green beans.
 
2018-03-07 10:43:11 AM  
Considering the source, I doubt TFA has any truth to it - but the farmers needn't worry. Trump and his crony-capitalist buddies profit from illegal immigration, and he has no intention of slowing it significantly.
All these public cruelties against dreamers and hysteria about criminals is for the base.
They know the typical Trumpanzee creams in his pants when he sees a family of "illegals" torn apart and that it won't statistically reduce the flow of illegal labor they all exploit and get rich on.
Republican voters are the stupidest people who have lived in the history of this planet, I do believe.
Toddlers are harder to fool.
 
2018-03-07 10:43:28 AM  
i.imgur.comView Full Size
 
2018-03-07 10:43:29 AM  

Terminal Accessory: It only works if ALL the farms use legal workers at a wage that will attract workers, because then it stabilizes the costs upward.
Then farms can cover the higher costs as they sell crops to distributers.
But if only some raise thier wages, they will get boned when distributers buy crops at the prices set by farms that use illegal labor.


Then so what you are saying, is that the farmers brought this on themselves.

Personal responsibility baby.
 
2018-03-07 10:44:31 AM  
img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2018-03-07 10:47:08 AM  

Lucky LaRue: I'm ok with an industry that has profited off of illegal business practices for years being forced to restructure their business model to comply with the law.  Some of them will be too stupid or too stubborn to figure out how to survive in the new business climate.  Their farms will fail and be bought and run by people who are smarter and more business savvy.  It's called competition, and it's OK.


So...no outsourcing to Malaysia or China, who pay their workers a pittance so we can enjoy our gadgets and gizmos?  Or are you suggesting we now outsource our crop-raising so we can keep prices low too?
 
2018-03-07 10:48:20 AM  

Lucky LaRue: FlashHarry: Lucky LaRue: I'm ok with an industry that has profited off of illegal business practices for years being forced to restructure their business model to comply with the law.

Even if that means paying double or more for the labor?

Yes, even if it means paying the California's legal minimum wage.  If you are running a business where you can't paying people a living wage, then you probably should get out of that business.


I do not disagree with you, but

Trump said he was going to do this, and the farmers still voted for him by 2:1+ margins.

WTF.
 
2018-03-07 10:48:25 AM  

dwrash: Gyrfalcon: But where are all the Americans who wanted those jobs?

They don't want them because the scabs (illegals) have depressed wages.


Well if the only problem is they are illegal. Surely you would support a way for them to work here legally.
 
2018-03-07 10:48:42 AM  
There is a serious issue with the barrier to entry for running a farm. In order to compete with the few mega farm corps that are able to afford to automate their businesses, smaller farms turned to slave wages for labor.

The smaller farms will go out of business without the labor and get snatched up by the larger corps that can afford to expand. Consumers will hardly notice a change.

The real issue that needs addressing is the trust busting that needs to happen in almost every sector of our economy
 
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