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(The Verge)   VW's Tesla fighter the Vizzion will arrive by 2022 and have a range of 400 miles. Fahrvergnügen   ( theverge.com) divider line
    More: Interesting, VW, Automobile, I.D. Vizzion, Steering, Volkswagen Jetta, steering wheel, VW curves, car  
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1370 clicks; posted to Business » on 06 Mar 2018 at 9:10 PM (39 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



36 Comments     (+0 »)
 
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2018-03-06 05:53:26 PM  
Is that really 400 miles or "we doctored the tests" 400 miles?
 
2018-03-06 06:33:03 PM  

Boudyro: Is that really 400 miles or "we doctored the tests" 400 miles?


If the latter, the real range will be 400 microns.
 
2018-03-06 06:45:07 PM  
You'll still have to put 18 gallons of gas in it every 400 miles, but that's probably just for "lubrication" or something.
 
2018-03-06 06:52:05 PM  
Grew up with a Beetle & Thing in the oil crunch of the '70s. Fun and servicable stuff. Would love to have a 914, but anything past the Quantum was on par with Renault Fuego in terms of reliability and longevity.

VW now is bag of nopes, Going to brand snob here... and able to work on cars. My personal experience is any after '85 VW will be (mechanically) under built to a price point Instead of building the best car they are capable of with their tremendous resources. It'll turn into an ash wagon after six years. VW/Audi are masters at engineering obsolescence. Don't believe? Check the resale on VW's. Try forking over $300 (1990 dollars) for a Golf wiper motor that smoked itself. Window regulators that crap out after the 5th year.etc. The seats and interior was great. Everything else turned to rubbage
 
2018-03-06 07:10:30 PM  

Boudyro: Is that really 400 miles or "we doctored the tests" 400 miles?


img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2018-03-06 07:28:12 PM  

FlashHarry: Boudyro: Is that really 400 miles or "we doctored the tests" 400 miles?

[img.fark.net image 515x292]


Jeremy may be a dick, but he's a witty dick.
 
2018-03-06 09:18:16 PM  
Frankly there aren't any European cars I'd want to own. I keep my cars too long to deal with having it blow up at 100,000 miles. Even Honda has been disappointing me lately.
 
2018-03-06 09:19:43 PM  

Shatners Agent: Grew up with a Beetle & Thing in the oil crunch of the '70s. Fun and servicable stuff. Would love to have a 914, but anything past the Quantum was on par with Renault Fuego in terms of reliability and longevity.

VW now is bag of nopes, Going to brand snob here... and able to work on cars. My personal experience is any after '85 VW will be (mechanically) under built to a price point Instead of building the best car they are capable of with their tremendous resources. It'll turn into an ash wagon after six years. VW/Audi are masters at engineering obsolescence. Don't believe? Check the resale on VW's. Try forking over $300 (1990 dollars) for a Golf wiper motor that smoked itself. Window regulators that crap out after the 5th year.etc. The seats and interior was great. Everything else turned to rubbage


Click and Clack used to say that water-cooled VWs had the "rattletrap syndrome" where they'd basically fall apart yet kept running.
 
2018-03-06 09:23:36 PM  
Whoah, comparing a car to be released in four years with one you can buy right now? Surely Tesla is sitting on their hands and doing absolutely nothing to improve their product!
 
2018-03-06 09:24:33 PM  
I am the only one who no longer cares for giant rims with rubber bands for tires?
 
2018-03-06 09:27:59 PM  

Boudyro: Is that really 400 miles or "we doctored the tests" 400 miles?


It really will be 400 kilometers miles, believe me you.

//coughs into hand and looks away.
 
2018-03-06 09:37:07 PM  
Volkswagen and complicated electronics. A winning combination!!
/I own two VWs
//I knew what I was getting into.
 
2018-03-06 09:51:27 PM  

Boudyro: Is that really 400 miles or "we doctored the tests" 400 miles?


Cruise control, flat surface, new tires.

So say 275-300 Miles real world.
 
2018-03-06 09:52:44 PM  

Shatners Agent: FlashHarry: Boudyro: Is that really 400 miles or "we doctored the tests" 400 miles?

[img.fark.net image 515x292]

Jeremy may be a dick, but he's a witty dick.


I love his story about the VW vehicle trying to pass noise inspection in the UK. They knew it would fail so they got it up to speed and approached the tester, cut the engine and coasted by.
 
2018-03-06 09:57:44 PM  
YAWN, another Tesla killer concept car. Faster - some time in the future. Better range - ditto ditto ditto ditto
 
2018-03-06 10:01:59 PM  
With that glass roof, the thing's gonna be an oven anywhere South of Oslo.
 
2018-03-06 10:12:00 PM  
Doubt the production model will look the same or have all the whizzbang features.

Still, nice eye candy, IMO.  I'd like a smaller version though.  Tesla doesn't make anything smaller either.  But small is better when city driving.

I figure I can keep Not Driving and living Downtown until self-driving cars become a thing.

/ never want to drive again
 
2018-03-06 10:57:21 PM  
Fahrvergnügen

Gesundheit.
 
2018-03-06 10:59:16 PM  
At what point is the extended range making the car unnecessarily expensive? I mean, how often are people driving 300+ miles in a single sitting? In the summer I'll do day trips to the beach which is 300 miles roundtrip, but there are charging stations down there - the Bolt provides more than enough range to get me down there and recharge enough miles while I'm in the water so I can get home.
 
2018-03-06 11:13:24 PM  

thornhill: At what point is the extended range making the car unnecessarily expensive? I mean, how often are people driving 300+ miles in a single sitting? In the summer I'll do day trips to the beach which is 300 miles roundtrip, but there are charging stations down there - the Bolt provides more than enough range to get me down there and recharge enough miles while I'm in the water so I can get home.


Try driving in the Southwest. Everything's 100+ miles from anything else. A trip to Phoenix would be 200 miles for me with absolutely nowhere I'd want to stop in between. I could easily have to drive 100 miles just going place to place in Phoenix while I was there. Could be a nuisance if I had to do a turn around trip.
 
2018-03-06 11:44:43 PM  
Call me when someone can actually buy one.
 
2018-03-06 11:51:34 PM  

GeekUSA: thornhill: At what point is the extended range making the car unnecessarily expensive? I mean, how often are people driving 300+ miles in a single sitting? In the summer I'll do day trips to the beach which is 300 miles roundtrip, but there are charging stations down there - the Bolt provides more than enough range to get me down there and recharge enough miles while I'm in the water so I can get home.

Try driving in the Southwest. Everything's 100+ miles from anything else. A trip to Phoenix would be 200 miles for me with absolutely nowhere I'd want to stop in between. I could easily have to drive 100 miles just going place to place in Phoenix while I was there. Could be a nuisance if I had to do a turn around trip.


I'm on the other end of the state. I have to drive to Phoenix on Thursday. It's over 4 hours through Show Low, Payson, then into Fountain Hills, Mesa, then Phoenix. There's no damn way to do that in an electric. And it's not like I can drive the 3 hours to Albuquerque because I have to go to the state Education Dept.
 
2018-03-07 05:48:39 AM  

ecmoRandomNumbers: You'll still have to put 18 gallons of gas in it every 400 miles, but that's probably just for "lubrication" or something.


Reminds me of how F1 cars worked in 2016-2017.

They were limited to 100KG of fuel for the intire race (KG, because fuel expands depending on how hot it is. The weight is always the same however).

Those F1 cars needed lots of "lubrication", turns out the engines were able to use lubrication oil as fuel! That's been clamped down on for the 2018 season though.
 
2018-03-07 08:43:09 AM  

thornhill: At what point is the extended range making the car unnecessarily expensive? I mean, how often are people driving 300+ miles in a single sitting? In the summer I'll do day trips to the beach which is 300 miles roundtrip, but there are charging stations down there - the Bolt provides more than enough range to get me down there and recharge enough miles while I'm in the water so I can get home.


Within 5 years we will have the ability to charge an EV for 200+ miles in about 10-15 minutes.

It's going to be interesting to see how the physical network of chargers gets built, though. I personally hope there reaches a point that some petrol stations begin investing in DC fast chargers the same way as they've invested in fuel pumps. It's always said the fuel stations make pennies off the fuel sold but their profit is from drinks, snacks, and conveniences. I'd love to see the same way for electric vehicles: Stop to pay 10¢ per kWh for fast-charging your EV and then you get to buy Coke and Twizzlers while you wait a few minutes to zap the battery and continue your drive.
 
2018-03-07 08:59:16 AM  
It's got a well-muffled diesel in there to charge the battery as you go. They had a bunch on the shelf, just think of them as bonus parts.
 
2018-03-07 09:25:04 AM  

mrmopar5287: thornhill: At what point is the extended range making the car unnecessarily expensive? I mean, how often are people driving 300+ miles in a single sitting? In the summer I'll do day trips to the beach which is 300 miles roundtrip, but there are charging stations down there - the Bolt provides more than enough range to get me down there and recharge enough miles while I'm in the water so I can get home.

Within 5 years we will have the ability to charge an EV for 200+ miles in about 10-15 minutes.

It's going to be interesting to see how the physical network of chargers gets built, though. I personally hope there reaches a point that some petrol stations begin investing in DC fast chargers the same way as they've invested in fuel pumps. It's always said the fuel stations make pennies off the fuel sold but their profit is from drinks, snacks, and conveniences. I'd love to see the same way for electric vehicles: Stop to pay 10¢ per kWh for fast-charging your EV and then you get to buy Coke and Twizzlers while you wait a few minutes to zap the battery and continue your drive.


If traditional gas stations don't invest in charging stations and making general improvements, they're going to get crushed by big box stores that are already putting charging stations in their parking lots. Just think about how many big box stores are located right off highway exits. And people are going to much rather sit and wait in a Whole Foods while their car recharges than some shiathole Exxon station.
 
2018-03-07 09:53:40 AM  

Thenixon: It's got a well-muffled diesel in there to charge the battery as you go. They had a bunch on the shelf, just think of them as bonus parts.


The engines are sold separately for $1 as an aftermarket accessory. That way they don't have to meet emissions if they came with the car from the factory.
 
2018-03-07 10:40:45 AM  
thornhill: If traditional gas stations don't invest in charging stations and making general improvements, they're going to get crushed by big box stores that are already putting charging stations in their parking lots. Just think about how many big box stores are located right off highway exits. And people are going to much rather sit and wait in a Whole Foods while their car recharges than some shiathole Exxon station.

Well, that's why. Why would an Exxon put in a charging station? Nobody wants to sit at a gas station for more than 10 minutes, an even a fast charger won't get you very far in that time.

You're right that every retailer in the world is installing them and that makes a ton of sense. Coffee shops should have lines of chargers outside. I don't know what the economic future of independently-owned gas stations is long term, but I don't see a ton of value in electric chargers at the moment.
 
2018-03-07 11:29:02 AM  

dukeblue219: Well, that's why. Why would an Exxon put in a charging station? Nobody wants to sit at a gas station for more than 10 minutes, an even a fast charger won't get you very far in that time.

You're right that every retailer in the world is installing them and that makes a ton of sense. Coffee shops should have lines of chargers outside. I don't know what the economic future of independently-owned gas stations is long term, but I don't see a ton of value in electric chargers at the moment.


Commuting makes up most of the miles driven by normal people, and commutes are typically less than 100 miles daily.

In addition to the places you mentioned, charging stations should be in office parks, apartment buildings,  college campuses, etc. There's no reason to put them in traditional 'gas station' type locations, they should naturally go where people are going to sit around for a while.

They have the added benefits in that they can go anywhere you have a decent connection to the electrical grid. They don't require as much digging as a traditional gas station (no tanks to bury), and they don't pose any major environmental challenges (so they can go places where gas stations aren't even allowed).

// my long term plan is to install solar panels on the roof and a charging station in the garage. Maybe I'll grab a model 3 once it's generally available (and after the 'cutting edge' problems have been worked out).
 
2018-03-07 11:31:31 AM  
Commuting stats...

img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2018-03-07 12:32:46 PM  

lordargent: Maybe I'll grab a model 3 once it's generally available


So, based on past estimates and ability to predict/hit target dates some time between September and when the sun turns into a white dwarf.

Just kidding - thanks for the commuting data.
 
2018-03-07 01:30:32 PM  
Last decent car VW produced.
And even then, the body was Italian designed and not produced by VW.

img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2018-03-07 01:50:10 PM  

Shatners Agent: Grew up with a Beetle & Thing in the oil crunch of the '70s. Fun and servicable stuff. Would love to have a 914, but anything past the Quantum was on par with Renault Fuego in terms of reliability and longevity.

VW now is bag of nopes, Going to brand snob here... and able to work on cars. My personal experience is any after '85 VW will be (mechanically) under built to a price point Instead of building the best car they are capable of with their tremendous resources. It'll turn into an ash wagon after six years. VW/Audi are masters at engineering obsolescence. Don't believe? Check the resale on VW's. Try forking over $300 (1990 dollars) for a Golf wiper motor that smoked itself. Window regulators that crap out after the 5th year.etc. The seats and interior was great. Everything else turned to rubbage


I am extremely curious as to what vehicle you smoked the wiper motor on, and why you paid dealership prices for the replacement. The window regulators are a known issue with all VWs but I suppose you have to drive them to know that; take the door panels off at the 3 - 5 year mark and make damn sure the motor has substantial lithium grease as well as the door locks.

I have owned 8 watercooled VWs and drove them all into the ground, like 200,000 - 300,000 miles on the non-diesels, and @ 450K on the diesels. I had a Mk III Jetta that I bought new in '97 and drove it for 17 years until some asshole with a suspended license pulled out in front of me in a Suburban and I went under it and finished it off. Yeah sure it had issues, multiple recalls (my fav: the ignition switch at 100,000 miles that I replaced the week before I got the notice in the mail), but I was almost always able to replace the $8 parts myself or with a little help. Had to do a water pump, the oil intercooler gasket at 200K, the ignition switch, fixed the starter by beating on it with a hammer, a set of upper valve cover gaskets, most annoyingly the damned cheap-ass upper water outlet housing (three times), and brake pads ever 75K, tires, the usual. For the most part that car $8.00'd me to death but it was paid for.
After the wreck I found a semi-abandoned '98 Jetta and talked the guy down to $250. for it, had some electrical issues that were mostly managable for @ 2 years. I think I sank another $400 in parts into it during that time and no matter how much my in-laws biatched about it I loved being able to throw it back in their faces that that car cost me less than $50 a month and had 99% uptime, a far cry better than their car payments and their ridiculous shop prices. The only thing I truly hated was re-doing the heater core, a three day job that made me swear I would never take the dash out of another car ever again. I succeeded, but it damn near killed me. VW heater core jobs on a watercooled are a mother-farker.

You're either a resigned V-dub driver or you aren't. Nothing else feels like them. I sooooo miss my diesel Dashers!! Those farkers could run with no battery, no starter (stick only-- pushed), and no glow plugs in Florida and generally would be the only car running after an EM pulse. I once used one to pull a 3/4 ton Chevy out of the sand... in reverse. Hell, drop the 1600 cc head on the 1800 cc block and it doubled the compression and made for @ 40 MPG no matter what, and you really could dump veggie oil in the tank if you did so in moderation. I would kill to have that again, total dependability, just don't ever get in a wreck with one or it would never be the same afterwards.

My #1 loss was my 1985 Quantum Synchro Wagon: only 300 were made that year for N. Am. and it could climb trees and dig its way out of any hole. Snow? HAHAHAHA no problem. NOTHING could stop that car until the gorram Robert Bosch fuel distributor milled to 1/10,000th of an inch finally failed and then it was game over. I still tear up when I think about the day that car went to the crusher.

I would buy another VW again in a heartbeat so long as it wasn't a Mk V or higher at which point the electronics just get ridiculous. I might just have to pick one up by the end of the year if I can find a sucker willing to let their diesel go. Worst case I might have to get a Golf IV for the fun of it.

The Bentley Manual IS YOUR PERSONAL FRIEND AND LOVER. You cannot drive a VW without one.
 
2018-03-07 01:53:43 PM  

paulleah: Last decent car VW produced.
And even then, the body was Italian designed and not produced by VW.

[img.fark.net image 850x637]


El Ocho wants his rims back.
 
2018-03-07 02:29:53 PM  

dukeblue219: Well, that's why. Why would an Exxon put in a charging station? Nobody wants to sit at a gas station for more than 10 minutes, an even a fast charger won't get you very far in that time.

You're right that every retailer in the world is installing them and that makes a ton of sense. Coffee shops should have lines of chargers outside. I don't know what the economic future of independently-owned gas stations is long term, but I don't see a ton of value in electric chargers at the moment.


Did you even read my comment above? We're quickly approaching a future where a fast-charge on a car will take 10 minutes.

And the economic future of independently-owned gas stations is to continue the business model of selling gas at break-even prices and making a profit on drinks and snacks. The value in electric chargers will be to get electric vehicles to charge at your station for less than the current charge stations cost (they can be fairly expensive) and to get the customer to buy things from your store.
 
2018-03-07 05:23:21 PM  

thespindrifter: El Ocho


I don't know who El Ocho is, but I like my rims.
 
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