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(The Daily Beast)   Mindfulness is the new science that science cannot explain. Is it real or is it all in your mind?   ( thedailybeast.com) divider line
    More: Interesting, Brain, mindfulness, meditation, volunteers practice mindfulness, mindfulness training, mindfulness stuff, mindfulness practice, mindfulness needs  
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1770 clicks; posted to Geek » on 04 Mar 2018 at 3:21 PM (19 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2018-03-04 02:25:04 PM  
Though they may go together pretty well, mindfulness isn't meditation. It's active self awareness and thought retraining. You could even liken it to self mind control.
 
2018-03-04 02:47:27 PM  
If science can't explain it, then it probably isn't science.
 
2018-03-04 03:00:57 PM  
Well, it's certainly not brain surgery
 
2018-03-04 03:18:50 PM  
No, it isn't.
 
2018-03-04 03:21:20 PM  
Been mindin' the gap since the last time it was in vogue. You can't explain that.
 
2018-03-04 03:28:34 PM  
This just in: remaining calm is good for your health.  Film at 11.
 
2018-03-04 03:44:16 PM  
Mindfulness, as explained by Lindsay
 
2018-03-04 03:44:20 PM  
Oprah Winfrey, Gwyneth Paltrow, and Russell Brand

Yes, just the sort of intellectual luminaries you should listen to... and then do anything else.
 
2018-03-04 03:47:25 PM  

King Something: If science can't explain it, then it probably isn't science.

I agree mostly but there there are plenty of phenomena which exist that science cannot explain just yet. Dark matter, Lil Pump success, etc.
 
2018-03-04 03:59:20 PM  

Aezetyr: Mindfulness, as explained by Lindsay


That's it. That's nearly the overboard it, but that's it.
 
2018-03-04 03:59:49 PM  
To each their own. There are plenty of people who have been trying to apply the scientific method to meditation with some success. I just started listening to Sam Harris's Waking Up podcast, as he has been thoughtfully addressing this very thing for quite a few years.
 
2018-03-04 04:01:16 PM  

berylman: King Something: If science can't explain it, then it probably isn't science.
I agree mostly but there there are plenty of phenomena which exist that science cannot explain just yet. Dark matter, Lil Pump success, etc.


Science CAN explain those phenomena. We just haven't been able to translate the explanations to human language yet.
 
2018-03-04 04:09:48 PM  

King Something: Science CAN explain those phenomena. We just haven't been able to translate the explanations to human language yet.


Fair enough and that's kind of what I meant.  Science as we know it is far from perfected.
 
2018-03-04 04:10:51 PM  

King Something: If science can't explain it, then it probably isn't science.


Science can explain it, but doing that requires it to use technical terms and objectively observable things which takes away the woo. That ruins it for some people who then get caught up in thinking about it rather than just experiencing it which is rather counter-productive to the whole thing. If you want to just feel yourself breathing you don't want to be thinking about breathing, or thinking about feeling yourself breathing. You want to turn off the thinking/worrying/planning bits of the brain in favor of the sensing bits of the brain.

So just take it from scientists, it's good for you to now and then shut it down and just be, and not worry about why it's good for you. Especially don't worry about why if doing so gets in the way of doing it.
 
2018-03-04 04:11:33 PM  
There is no substitute for awareness.
 
2018-03-04 04:13:05 PM  
"At the end of the eight weeks, Davidson and his team found that despite equivalent levels of stress hormones induced, the group that underwent mindfulness training had a "significantly smaller post-stress inflammatory response." "

Let me know when the next phase paper is out, covering 'sub-space'

/ CTRL-F endorphin
 
2018-03-04 04:20:13 PM  
Not news.  Good reads for "mindfulness"
img.fark.netView Full Size


img.fark.netView Full Size


img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2018-03-04 04:23:24 PM  
Agency over your life.
 
2018-03-04 04:31:58 PM  

xanthippe: Not news.  Good reads for "mindfulness"

[img.fark.net image 235x350]


Ahh... Castaneda.

Never mind that all of the "wisdom" he imparted was from a Yaqui medicine man who never existed except as a marketing tool.
 
2018-03-04 04:32:18 PM  
Call in the UN Inspectors, we have weapons grade Bolonium stockpiles here
 
2018-03-04 05:00:48 PM  

cirby: xanthippe: Not news.  Good reads for "mindfulness"

[img.fark.net image 235x350]

Ahh... Castaneda.

Never mind that all of the "wisdom" he imparted was from a Yaqui medicine man who never existed except as a marketing tool.


I have lived among Yaquis and the Dine and want to think Don Juan did exist and that Castaneda was too bone-headed to absorb any of the meditative goodness.  FFS, all of the subsequent books dealt with him rehashing everything ad nauseum and Don Juan finally jumping off a cliff (figuratively) and leaving him to his own devices.

/I still hike with nothing in my hands...it makes a huge difference to energy conservation.
 
2018-03-04 05:27:47 PM  
There's plenty of science behind mindfulness. Meditation (in all its variations) seems to lower the activation of the default mode network as well as other related networks, as well as damping stress and anxiety responses.  It's no more mysterious than Cognitive Behavioral Therapy or, for that matter, how superficially most of neuroscience is understood for the time being.

Frankly, mindfulness for the most part is just meditation stripped of the mystic and religious trappings that make it less accessible to secular Westerners. There's no Buddha, there's no God, there's no Nirvana, there's no universal consciousness, there's no "breaking logic". There's just here, now, and yourself.
 
2018-03-04 05:47:10 PM  
King Something:

That's not true.

Science is usually on the spectrum and not every good at communicating with normal people.

Now, if science can't give extra asses and then blow it up.... whoo boy.
 
2018-03-04 05:52:34 PM  

xanthippe: I have lived among Yaquis and the Dine and want to think Don Juan did exist and that Castaneda was too bone-headed to absorb any of the meditative goodness.


You can "want to think" all you want, but don Juan didn't actually exist. Basically, Castaneda did some reading, talked to a couple of people, and then wrote some fiction and pretended it was native wisdom. Some of his True Believers try to pass dJ off as a "composite character," but when you read the books critically, it's mostly just careless writing.

After don Juan "died" in 1973 (right about the time people started seriously asking Castaneda if they could talk to the old Yaqui), Castaneda invented another mystical myth to sell to people and called it "Tensegrity." He tried to pretend it was based on Yaqui teachings, but it was just cobbled-together Eastern silliness.
 
2018-03-04 05:58:37 PM  
A way for medical professionals to give you nothing while still charging you money.

Sort of like Church
 
2018-03-04 06:05:09 PM  

mrlewish: A way for medical professionals to give you nothing while still charging you money.


... and the patient realized nothing was exactly what they needed, and disappeared in a puff of enlightenment.

/ I wish I could be so lucky
 
2018-03-04 06:24:34 PM  
YOSHIDA BROTHERS / KODO
Youtube 96uIHKErc6E
 
2018-03-04 06:36:03 PM  

King Something: If science can't explain it, then it probably isn't science.


Hard to imagine a better example of the unearned, unscientific grasp of science that has taken hold of an age that values Futurama and Rick and Morty above the science that spawned their 50-year-old sci-fi concepts.

1. If science can't explain it, yup, it's unexplained.

2. If you think science is some cage that rules over the universe, keeping all the funky stuff in "imagination" and "human mind" out of its strict ordering, you are woefully unprepared for the age you live in.
 
2018-03-04 06:38:24 PM  

wademh: King Something: If science can't explain it, then it probably isn't science.

Science can explain it, but doing that requires it to use technical terms and objectively observable things which takes away the woo. That ruins it for some people who then get caught up in thinking about it rather than just experiencing it which is rather counter-productive to the whole thing. If you want to just feel yourself breathing you don't want to be thinking about breathing, or thinking about feeling yourself breathing. You want to turn off the thinking/worrying/planning bits of the brain in favor of the sensing bits of the brain.

So just take it from scientists, it's good for you to now and then shut it down and just be, and not worry about why it's good for you. Especially don't worry about why if doing so gets in the way of doing it.


Dear Person Who Claims to Appreciate Science,

The last century *did* in fact occur.

You are using a tool to transmit your thoughts, and that tool is actively using a ton of energy and heat to lock logical rules into existence within a cage.  That cage has been tuned to *ignore* quantum effects.  The things that are inextricable from our objective realities.

You dumb, yo.

Your idea of science can't even do modern science.  It's missing whole variables of variables.
 
2018-03-04 06:48:04 PM  
...others recommend waking up and sitting in bed and simply noticing how the body feels...

Most of us don't require a recommendation.
 
2018-03-04 06:53:44 PM  

sidcart42: wademh: King Something: If science can't explain it, then it probably isn't science.

Science can explain it, but doing that requires it to use technical terms and objectively observable things which takes away the woo. That ruins it for some people who then get caught up in thinking about it rather than just experiencing it which is rather counter-productive to the whole thing. If you want to just feel yourself breathing you don't want to be thinking about breathing, or thinking about feeling yourself breathing. You want to turn off the thinking/worrying/planning bits of the brain in favor of the sensing bits of the brain.

So just take it from scientists, it's good for you to now and then shut it down and just be, and not worry about why it's good for you. Especially don't worry about why if doing so gets in the way of doing it.

Dear Person Who Claims to Appreciate Science,

The last century *did* in fact occur.

You are using a tool to transmit your thoughts, and that tool is actively using a ton of energy and heat to lock logical rules into existence within a cage.  That cage has been tuned to *ignore* quantum effects.  The things that are inextricable from our objective realities.

You dumb, yo.

Your idea of science can't even do modern science.  It's missing whole variables of variables.


My gawd, learn to read. Please. That or go masturbate with your strawmen somewhere out of public view. Nowhere did I denigrate science and quantum effects are not involved in this discussion, probably.
 
2018-03-04 06:54:16 PM  
Is this the real life?
Is this just fantasy?
Caught in a landslide
No escape from reality...
 
2018-03-04 06:58:09 PM  

RJReves: Is this the real life?
Is this just fantasy?
Caught in a landslide
No escape from reality...


How mercurial of you.
 
2018-03-04 07:24:18 PM  
How many did you find in the article?

img.fark.netView Full Size


I spotted three but I only skimmed it.
 
2018-03-04 07:38:47 PM  
vignette.wikia.nocookie.netView Full Size

Wu

taiwaneseamericanhistory.orgView Full Size


Wu
 
2018-03-04 07:41:34 PM  
Mindfulness doesn't work for everyone. It can actually be bad for those who suffer from PTSD as it can aggravate things.
 
2018-03-04 07:44:16 PM  

King Something: If science can't explain it, then it probably isn't science.


Neural rewiring is a thing, it's just whether or not mindfulness does the same thing as meditation, LSD, etc.
 
2018-03-04 08:03:27 PM  

AdamK: King Something: If science can't explain it, then it probably isn't science.

Neural rewiring is a thing, it's just whether or not mindfulness does the same thing as meditation, LSD, etc.


That's what the fMRIs are for, to see if there are any structural changes.
 
2018-03-04 08:05:16 PM  
It used to be called "paying attention" and "concentrating".
 
2018-03-04 08:22:34 PM  
Won't let embed - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1kD​so5​ElFRg
How to be Ultra Spiritual - with JP Sears
 
2018-03-04 08:26:34 PM  

cirby: xanthippe: I have lived among Yaquis and the Dine and want to think Don Juan did exist and that Castaneda was too bone-headed to absorb any of the meditative goodness.

You can "want to think" all you want, but don Juan didn't actually exist. Basically, Castaneda did some reading, talked to a couple of people, and then wrote some fiction and pretended it was native wisdom. Some of his True Believers try to pass dJ off as a "composite character," but when you read the books critically, it's mostly just careless writing.

After don Juan "died" in 1973 (right about the time people started seriously asking Castaneda if they could talk to the old Yaqui), Castaneda invented another mystical myth to sell to people and called it "Tensegrity." He tried to pretend it was based on Yaqui teachings, but it was just cobbled-together Eastern silliness.


Who the fark are you arguing with?  Did I not state that Castaneda was full of shiat? Whatever.
img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2018-03-04 08:42:17 PM  
I don't know.  I think I'm gonna stick with mindlessness until I find out some more about this.
 
2018-03-04 08:55:14 PM  

sidcart42: King Something: If science can't explain it, then it probably isn't science.

Hard to imagine a better example of the unearned, unscientific grasp of science that has taken hold of an age that values Futurama and Rick and Morty above the science that spawned their 50-year-old sci-fi concepts.


I enjoyed Altered Carbon and Black Mirror,  but they're not exactly "crack a beer open and end your day with" shows.
 
2018-03-04 09:16:44 PM  
Iron Maiden - All In Your Mind
Youtube gWJg4T5FMQ0
 
2018-03-04 09:41:52 PM  

xanthippe: cirby: xanthippe: I have lived among Yaquis and the Dine and want to think Don Juan did exist and that Castaneda was too bone-headed to absorb any of the meditative goodness.

You can "want to think" all you want, but don Juan didn't actually exist. Basically, Castaneda did some reading, talked to a couple of people, and then wrote some fiction and pretended it was native wisdom. Some of his True Believers try to pass dJ off as a "composite character," but when you read the books critically, it's mostly just careless writing.

After don Juan "died" in 1973 (right about the time people started seriously asking Castaneda if they could talk to the old Yaqui), Castaneda invented another mystical myth to sell to people and called it "Tensegrity." He tried to pretend it was based on Yaqui teachings, but it was just cobbled-together Eastern silliness.

Who the fark are you arguing with?  Did I not state that Castaneda was full of shiat? Whatever.
[img.fark.net image 257x196]


I'm arguing with the guy who thinks don Juan existed. That would be you.
 
2018-03-04 09:50:55 PM  

JohnnyApocalypse: Though they may go together pretty well, mindfulness isn't meditation. It's active self awareness and thought retraining. You could even liken it to self mind control.


My understanding is that mindfulness is the act of over-hearing yourself. Peter re-hearing  Jesus's prediction when the cock crowed.
 
2018-03-04 10:36:45 PM  
You're thinking meat in actual reality. Every giant feeling and beautiful emotion has taken place entirely within the couple dozen hundred cc of goo between your ears. You will never experience anything other than your own life.

You can't think your way out of problems with your own thinker, but you can tune a fish. Training up the thing you actually are is a way to be better at actually being you.

Mindfulness to me is simply paying attention to thinking. What am I thinking? Why am I thinking that? Do I have a good reason to think this way, or am I reacting to something? Does what I think fit the facts? Is my narrative an accurate description?


As Sir Pterry might have put it, it's having third thoughts to watch your second thoughts.
 
2018-03-04 11:41:42 PM  
I don't doubt that "mindfulness" is helpful. But, I'm guessing it's pretty much the same thing as learning to put your farking phone down for a few minutes, stop worrying about trivial shiat, and enjoy being alive for a moment.

As a learned and strict practitioner of the the ancient art of "siesta," I guarantee I'm getting the same benefits at a fraction of the price.
 
2018-03-04 11:48:07 PM  

Bumblefark: I don't doubt that "mindfulness" is helpful. But, I'm guessing it's pretty much the same thing as learning to put your farking phone down for a few minutes, stop worrying about trivial shiat, and enjoy being alive for a moment.

As a learned and strict practitioner of the the ancient art of "siesta," I guarantee I'm getting the same benefits at a fraction of the price.


A siesta is the opposite of mindfulness. That's being asleep. You're tuned out.

Mindfullness is more like focus on the present without the self. Kind of like those little bullet time moments Sherlock Holmes has in the movies, minus the judgement and planning.

You're just present in the present, which is very, very rare even if you practice.
 
2018-03-05 12:20:10 AM  
New names for age oldest practices aside (modern 'mindfulness' has been around in myriad forms forever under different names) it's worth acknowledging that as soon as you drift past theoretical chemistry in the physical sciences it becomes exceedingly difficult to do proper science because variable control becomes so incredibly difficult and direct observation becomes nearly impossible.  If you look hard enough you can find compelling and reasonably well collected evidence that shows being a vegan is critical to health  right beside equally well collected data showing saturated fat rich meat diets are the way to go.  Hell  the number of pharmaceutical products that are only marginally effective beyond placebo effect sizes and have unknown chemical pathways is frightening.  Take it one step further and add in social factors and frankly the scientific method is pretty inadequate.  Even with massive data sets and strongly correlated effect sizes things like management or educational best practices are damn near impossible to nail down.  What the modern non-scientist/scientismist seems to miss is that the scientific method is exceedingly good at answering some questions and wholly inadequate to answer many others.
 
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