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(Climate Central)   [Glacier] National Park   ( reports.climatecentral.org) divider line
    More: Sad, National Park Service, climate change, Glacier National Park, glaciers, Retreat of glaciers since 1850, Glacier County, Montana  
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3178 clicks; posted to Geek » on 03 Mar 2018 at 4:24 PM (19 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



44 Comments     (+0 »)
 
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2018-03-03 02:39:19 PM  
Current administration:  Not a national park anymore. Sad.  Let's drill for oil there.
 
2018-03-03 03:06:34 PM  
Dying Days of Ice is the name of my Frozen remake.
 
2018-03-03 03:21:54 PM  
img.fark.netView Full Size

Athabasca [Glacier] in Canada.
 
2018-03-03 04:28:53 PM  
In hindsight, "permafrost" was a sadly ambitious name.
 
2018-03-03 04:29:15 PM  
Visited the park in early 90's as a teen to walk on remaining glacier.
 
2018-03-03 04:38:08 PM  

KungFuJunkie: Visited the park in early 90's as a teen to walk on remaining glacier.


We went on an Alaska cruise which visits a lot of the coastal glaciers. They aren't just retreating. They've turned tail and are fleeing the field of battle.
 
2018-03-03 04:49:04 PM  
Large Puddle National Park
 
2018-03-03 04:50:01 PM  
The glaciers are false flag antifa deep state agents.
 
2018-03-03 05:03:36 PM  
Glacier NP's 150 glaciers were already melting when Americans first cataloged them in the late 1800s...and had been slowly melting for 10,000 to 20,000 years, along with most of the rest of the northern hemisphere's glaciers. So let's not panic over their 'sudden disappearance', because it hasn't been sudden.

Moreover, about 95% of North American glaciers have been in on-and-off retreat since the end of the Little Ice Age around 1750. Some faster than others, and some have hung on or even grown a bit where circumstances are right. Glacier Bay in Alaska has been studied and measured since 1795, and it was retreating even before that.

That's no reason not to ameliorate human contributions to global warming, though. But let's not pretend that's the full story.
 
2018-03-03 05:04:01 PM  
Sad, but known. Still one of the most beautiful places I've ever been. Three, week long backpacking trips (Nyack-Coal Creek, Boulder Pass, Grinnell).

Need to go back, but sooooo many places that I haven't yet seen.
 
2018-03-03 05:46:22 PM  
thanks, Al Gore
 
2018-03-03 05:49:48 PM  

E_Henry_Thripshaws_Disease: thanks, Al Gore


I was under the impression that the Chinese invented global warming.

Am I misinfromed?
 
2018-03-03 05:57:48 PM  
This is the way it is with glaciers. They can be in a state of semi-balance but ultimately either expand or shrink. There are many moraines from isostatic glaciers that ultimately retreated, usually leaving vast glacial lakes whose sudden draining left huge river channels.

Without the agricultural revolution we would likely be seeing glacial advance today rather than full retreat and I would hardly suggest that would be any better for many extant species. Having everything stripped to the bedrock by mile-high ice generally is not good for biodiversity, until the interglacial comes and results in species radiation among the survivors pushed south.

I really don't mourn the glaciers except as a loss of critical water supplies in various places around the world. And even that has been ongoing for thousands of years-- the primary rivers of the Indus civilization were glacier fed and except for the Indus itself are basically dead, and have been for a long time.

We have severely impacted the planet's climate but let us not assume that without us the world would be a perfect unchanging paradise. We primarily mourn the loss of the familiar without considering how dynamic natural systems are even without our intrusion. Nothing is eternal and shifts are tumultuous with the pace of evolution being described as "punctuated equilibrium" where for long periods there is relative stability punctuated by incredible rapid changes.

It shall be so for as long as multicellular life is possible until the sun's output makes it impractical.
 
2018-03-03 06:40:23 PM  

E_Henry_Thripshaws_Disease: thanks, Al Gore


img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2018-03-03 06:41:21 PM  

E_Henry_Thripshaws_Disease: thanks, Al Gore


img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2018-03-03 07:04:14 PM  

BolloxReader: This is the way it is with glaciers. They can be in a state of semi-balance but ultimately either expand or shrink. There are many moraines from isostatic glaciers that ultimately retreated, usually leaving vast glacial lakes whose sudden draining left huge river channels.


Get a BRAIN moraines!

/Go USA!
 
2018-03-03 07:05:44 PM  

Spice Must Flow: E_Henry_Thripshaws_Disease: thanks, Al Gore

[img.fark.net image 850x604]


It's super funny when derpers try to accuse anyone else of Russian collusion.
 
2018-03-03 08:26:17 PM  
Is anyone walking the melt line looking for First Nations artifacts?
 
2018-03-03 08:46:17 PM  
The article talks about concerns about the Park staff being overwhelmed with increased number of visitors, but doesn't the budget scale to the point where they can hire more park staff with the increased revenue from the use fees the new visitors will be paying?
 
2018-03-03 09:05:24 PM  
img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2018-03-03 09:15:18 PM  
The thought crossed my mind just now, and I realise it's neither well-formed nor clever...

Does anyone fancy dropping Mr Garrison an email, and try to get some sense from him?

Ask him if he seriously believes the things he draws?

He's clearly insane, but he's representing the POTUS with his art. And, his art would be decent if he didn't have some strange switch in his brain flipped that made him think that it's OK to take the piss out of darkies, or whatever his mental disorder is.

/Have I just volunteered myself?
 
2018-03-03 09:40:48 PM  
BolloxReader

We have severely impacted the planet's climate but let us not assume that without us the world would be a perfect unchanging paradise.

    This.
 
2018-03-03 09:49:41 PM  
i.imgur.comView Full Size
 
2018-03-03 09:51:42 PM  
The last time I tried to actually reach "conservatives" was on r/The_Donald.

Instabanned.

/F*cking snowflakes.
 
2018-03-03 10:03:21 PM  

Spice Must Flow: E_Henry_Thripshaws_Disease: thanks, Al Gore

[img.fark.net image 850x604]


i1-news.softpedia-static.comView Full Size
 
2018-03-03 10:13:19 PM  
I have a plan involving large sheets of white expanded polystyrene foam.
 
2018-03-03 10:19:38 PM  

wildcardjack: I have a plan involving large sheets of white expanded polystyrene foam.


s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.comView Full Size
 
2018-03-03 11:03:08 PM  
I say we rename it Denial NP. It will fit right in with Denali NP.
 
2018-03-03 11:11:34 PM  

wildcardjack: I have a plan involving large sheets of white expanded polystyrene foam.


You can use H2B labor to slowly push them down the valley as part of the reenactment.
 
2018-03-03 11:18:30 PM  

BolloxReader: Without the agricultural revolution we would likely be seeing glacial advance today rather than full retreat and I would hardly suggest that would be any better for many extant species. .


The rate of advance would be much, much slower than the current glacial retreat, and that makes all the difference for species trying to adapt.
 
2018-03-03 11:45:19 PM  
Very quick and dirty
img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2018-03-03 11:55:17 PM  

Stone Meadow: Glacier NP's 150 glaciers were already melting when Americans first cataloged them in the late 1800s...and had been slowly melting for 10,000 to 20,000 years, along with most of the rest of the northern hemisphere's glaciers. So let's not panic over their 'sudden disappearance', because it hasn't been sudden.

Moreover, about 95% of North American glaciers have been in on-and-off retreat since the end of the Little Ice Age around 1750. Some faster than others, and some have hung on or even grown a bit where circumstances are right. Glacier Bay in Alaska has been studied and measured since 1795, and it was retreating even before that.

That's no reason not to ameliorate human contributions to global warming, though. But let's not pretend that's the full story.


What you're saying here isn't the full story either. The issue is one of differing rates. Global average temperatures have been increasing since the end of the little ice age, which would be commensurate with the retreat in glaciers that you mention. The problem is that there has been a rapid increase in rate, especially during the 20th century. To fail to mention these vastly different rates of change is very misleading.
 
2018-03-04 12:15:23 AM  

BolloxReader: This is the way it is with glaciers. They can be in a state of semi-balance but ultimately either expand or shrink. There are many moraines from isostatic glaciers that ultimately retreated, usually leaving vast glacial lakes whose sudden draining left huge river channels.

Without the agricultural revolution we would likely be seeing glacial advance today rather than full retreat and I would hardly suggest that would be any better for many extant species. Having everything stripped to the bedrock by mile-high ice generally is not good for biodiversity, until the interglacial comes and results in species radiation among the survivors pushed south.


I dispute this idea. First, there's a radical mismatch in scales between the alternatives you're talking about. A slow change over thousands of years is much easier to adapt to instead of a relatively fast change over a few hundred. Second, you're risking a false dilemma. We are in no way limited to those two extremes.

BolloxReader: I really don't mourn the glaciers except as a loss of critical water supplies in various places around the world. And even that has been ongoing for thousands of years-- the primary rivers of the Indus civilization were glacier fed and except for the Indus itself are basically dead, and have been for a long time.


It's the rate of change that's the issue, and that has greatly increased in recent times. The current rate of change that threatens water supplies isn't the same as the last few thousand years - to ignore the differences severely understates current risks.


BolloxReader: We have severely impacted the planet's climate but let us not assume that without us the world would be a perfect unchanging paradise. We primarily mourn the loss of the familiar without considering how dynamic natural systems are even without our intrusion. Nothing is eternal and shifts are tumultuous with the pace of evolution being described as "punctuated equilibrium" where for long periods there is relative stability punctuated by incredible rapid changes.

It shall be so for as long as multicellular life is possible until the sun's output makes it impractical.


This is fair in an absolute sense, but again involves a severe mismatch in scale. We are not talking about changes over the course of evolutionary time, but on a much shorter scale. To contextualize the potential impacts of climate change on that scale is of very limited utility.

I mean, we could also say the actions of the Trump administration and the upcoming midterm elections don't matter as much because of the eventual heat death of the universe, but on that scale you lose some important details, no?
 
2018-03-04 01:13:16 AM  
cmiae.orgView Full Size
 
2018-03-04 01:14:09 AM  

Krieghund: BolloxReader: Without the agricultural revolution we would likely be seeing glacial advance today rather than full retreat and I would hardly suggest that would be any better for many extant species. .

The rate of advance would be much, much slower than the current glacial retreat, and that makes all the difference for species trying to adapt.


upload.wikimedia.orgView Full Size
 
2018-03-04 01:16:54 AM  
upload.wikimedia.orgView Full Size
 
2018-03-04 01:51:51 AM  

New Age Redneck: BolloxReader

We have severely impacted the planet's climate but let us not assume that without us the world would be a perfect unchanging paradise.

    This.


No sane person thinks this. The problem is we've built modern society without knowing how badly and how quickly things are going south.

We are going to see the devastating of major coastal cities within our lifetime.
 
2018-03-04 06:10:37 AM  
encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.comView Full Size
 
2018-03-04 09:13:16 AM  
Shakin_Haitian

We are going to see the devastating of major coastal cities within our lifetime.

Learn to swim.
 
2018-03-04 10:00:55 AM  

New Age Redneck: Shakin_Haitian

We are going to see the devastating of major coastal cities within our lifetime.

Learn to swim.


Do the Miami backstroke?
 
2018-03-04 11:37:55 AM  
Our descendants will be born into a festering shiatpit of our own construction.... but they won't know any better.
 
2018-03-04 11:42:06 AM  

Mad_Radhu: The article talks about concerns about the Park staff being overwhelmed with increased number of visitors, but doesn't the budget scale to the point where they can hire more park staff with the increased revenue from the use fees the new visitors will be paying?


The money taken in locally doesn't stay in the till for them to budget locally. It has to go to DC and go through the wash to be siphoned off in all different directions. Some of it presumably comes back to the park that takes it in.
 
2018-03-04 12:12:46 PM  

Damnhippyfreak: Stone Meadow: Glacier NP's 150 glaciers were already melting when Americans first cataloged them in the late 1800s...and had been slowly melting for 10,000 to 20,000 years, along with most of the rest of the northern hemisphere's glaciers. So let's not panic over their 'sudden disappearance', because it hasn't been sudden.

Moreover, about 95% of North American glaciers have been in on-and-off retreat since the end of the Little Ice Age around 1750. Some faster than others, and some have hung on or even grown a bit where circumstances are right. Glacier Bay in Alaska has been studied and measured since 1795, and it was retreating even before that.

That's no reason not to ameliorate human contributions to global warming, though. But let's not pretend that's the full story.

What you're saying here isn't the full story either. The issue is one of differing rates. Global average temperatures have been increasing since the end of the little ice age, which would be commensurate with the retreat in glaciers that you mention. The problem is that there has been a rapid increase in rate, especially during the 20th century. To fail to mention these vastly different rates of change is very misleading.


Of course my post isn't the full story. There was no intent that it be the full story. After all, my post was 3 short paragraphs of two sentences each. You're not suggesting I overestimated the readers' ability to draw the obvious inferences, are you?
 
2018-03-04 02:25:59 PM  
21,000 years ago, Toronto was buried under a glacier that was 2100 metersthick, the ones covering Chicago and Boston were 900 and 1250 metersthick respectively, and Montreal was buried under 3300 meters of ice.  By contrast, the tallest building we've ever built is about 830 meters tall.  Let that sink in.

I wonder what the earth looked like from space 6,000 years ago, or even 500 years ago.
 
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