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(Alaska Dispatch News)   What scientists know is that ancient carbon is seeping out of the thawing Arctic soil. What scientists don't know is if this is a good thing or a bad thing   ( adn.com) divider line
    More: Scary, Global warming, carbon, Methane, old carbon Arctic, climate change, Carbon dioxide, Arctic methane release, permafrost soil carbon  
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927 clicks; posted to Geek » on 02 Mar 2018 at 8:24 AM (32 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



27 Comments     (+0 »)
 
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2018-03-02 04:41:43 AM  
Actually, they don't know if it is bad thing or a neutral thing.  There is no good option.
 
2018-03-02 06:23:57 AM  

SomeAmerican: Actually, they don't know if it is bad thing or a neutral thing.  There is no good option.


Yeah, I was going to say, this is definitely not a good thing.
 
2018-03-02 07:24:45 AM  
The Breath of Cthlulu.
 
2018-03-02 08:37:32 AM  
Is it releasing potassium benzoate? (That's bad)
 
2018-03-02 08:48:48 AM  
It also stands a very good chance of releasing virii, bacteria and fungi we and our food sources may not have defenses against - natural or pharmaceutical.
 
2018-03-02 08:58:15 AM  
It's not just carbon, it's the bleeding flesh of Abhoth, Source of All Uncleanliness.  Embrace the change to your reality as Abhoth embraces you.
 
2018-03-02 09:16:04 AM  

dionysusaur: It also stands a very good chance of releasing virii, bacteria and fungi we and our food sources may not have defenses against - natural or pharmaceutical.

That goes both ways.
 
2018-03-02 09:23:49 AM  
It found an increasing prevalence of older dissolved carbon and carbon dioxide in the waters as the summer advanced

How do you figure out which methane is the older layer of dissolved methane in the water vs new formations?  I would not think the methane would just hang out with folks of its own age.
 
2018-03-02 09:25:45 AM  

Saiga410: It found an increasing prevalence of older dissolved carbon and carbon dioxide in the waters as the summer advanced

How do you figure out which methane is the older layer of dissolved methane in the water vs new formations?  I would not think the methane would just hang out with folks of its own age.


OK.  The level of C14 would drop as the summer goes on.... dummy.  No way of accurately aging it but it would show that long term captured carbon is entering into the system.
 
2018-03-02 09:40:43 AM  

dragonchild: dionysusaur: It also stands a very good chance of releasing virii, bacteria and fungi we and our food sources may not have defenses against - natural or pharmaceutical.
That goes both ways.


A bit of elaboration, please?  There seems to be a good point coded there, but I detest Ovaltine.
 
2018-03-02 09:50:44 AM  
Over thousands of years, the Arctic has stored up massive amounts of carbon as plants have died but have not fully decayed due to the region's cold temperatures. Instead, their roots and other plant parts have been preserved in the frozen soil. Layer upon layer of Arctic soil has built up, representing a kind of time capsule with the oldest layers, and the oldest carbon, generally found at the greatest depths.

As long as it doesn't get to warm, wouldn't this process start again, thereby sequestering more carbon?
 
2018-03-02 10:05:37 AM  

Ambivalence: SomeAmerican: Actually, they don't know if it is bad thing or a neutral thing.  There is no good option.

Yeah, I was going to say, this is definitely not a good thing.


I don't know about that. Paleontologically speaking; life seems to thrive in a warmer climate.
 
2018-03-02 10:26:08 AM  

Rev. Skarekroe: It's not just carbon, it's the bleeding flesh of Abhoth, Source of All Uncleanliness.  Embrace the change to your reality as Abhoth embraces you.


I was hoping for Ithaqua the Wind Walker.
And if it's black and amorphous, it may be shuggoths that escaped Antarctica's Mountains of Madness.
 
2018-03-02 10:31:31 AM  

RedVentrue: Ambivalence: SomeAmerican: Actually, they don't know if it is bad thing or a neutral thing.  There is no good option.

Yeah, I was going to say, this is definitely not a good thing.

I don't know about that. Paleontologically speaking; life seems to thrive in a warmer climate.


I promise you, we're not all going to fit in Antarctica.  Some places are supposed to be colder.
 
2018-03-02 10:32:42 AM  
Seriously folk, it is time to stop talking about climate change as if it were a thing that could be stopped. I mean, maybe it could, but it won't. Fact. It is time to start talking about how we are going to mitigate the problems that come with climate change. That means holding back the sea or moving mass populations of people. Figuring out how to feed them when farms fail due to drought, etc. Way above my pay grade or intelligence level to solve, but not above my ability to see the problem.

We won't stop climate change. Just won't. It is time to figure out what we are going to do so our children and their children survive through it.
 
2018-03-02 10:50:22 AM  

dionysusaur: A bit of elaboration, please? There seems to be a good point coded there, but I detest Ovaltine.

Pathogens evolve next to whatever they invade.  You seem to be concerned that we might uncover some ancient strain of smallpox or something, but think of the conditions that cause epidemics -- a bunch of hosts in close, unsanitary proximity.  Microorganisms that have been locked in permafrost for millions of years means they've been isolated for all that time.  If one of them is suddenly exposed to an active immune system, it wouldn't have evolved any defense against it.

There is a non-zero chance that a particular microorganism turns into a plague, but this is more science fiction than a serious concern.  The likely outcome is that your immune system murderdeathkills the poor defenseless bugs.  If anything, it may be a challenge for scientists to keep samples alive.  It really depends.
 
2018-03-02 11:32:05 AM  

dragonchild: dionysusaur: A bit of elaboration, please? There seems to be a good point coded there, but I detest Ovaltine.
Pathogens evolve next to whatever they invade.  You seem to be concerned that we might uncover some ancient strain of smallpox or something, but think of the conditions that cause epidemics -- a bunch of hosts in close, unsanitary proximity.  Microorganisms that have been locked in permafrost for millions of years means they've been isolated for all that time.  If one of them is suddenly exposed to an active immune system, it wouldn't have evolved any defense against it.

There is a non-zero chance that a particular microorganism turns into a plague, but this is more science fiction than a serious concern.  The likely outcome is that your immune system murderdeathkills the poor defenseless bugs.  If anything, it may be a challenge for scientists to keep samples alive.  It really depends.


Yes.  But that doesn't seem like a bad thing.  Just suboptimal.
 
2018-03-02 12:28:05 PM  

dionysusaur: It also stands a very good chance of releasing virii, bacteria and fungi we and our food sources may not have defenses against - natural or pharmaceutical.


And also Things. Don't forget The Things.
 
2018-03-02 01:21:52 PM  

OldJames: Is it releasing potassium benzoate? (That's bad)


But it comes with a free frogurt!
 
2018-03-02 01:58:00 PM  

big pig peaches: Over thousands of years, the Arctic has stored up massive amounts of carbon as plants have died but have not fully decayed due to the region's cold temperatures. Instead, their roots and other plant parts have been preserved in the frozen soil. Layer upon layer of Arctic soil has built up, representing a kind of time capsule with the oldest layers, and the oldest carbon, generally found at the greatest depths.

As long as it doesn't get to warm, wouldn't this process start again, thereby sequestering more carbon?


Yeah, lichen growth just soaks up atmospheric carbon.
 
2018-03-02 02:50:32 PM  

stevenrushing: Seriously folk, it is time to stop talking about climate change as if it were a thing that could be stopped. I mean, maybe it could, but it won't. Fact. It is time to start talking about how we are going to mitigate the problems that come with climate change. That means holding back the sea or moving mass populations of people. Figuring out how to feed them when farms fail due to drought, etc. Way above my pay grade or intelligence level to solve, but not above my ability to see the problem.

We won't stop climate change. Just won't. It is time to figure out what we are going to do so our children and their children survive through it.


Free market solutions will provide.

Well, at least for a certain % of the population.

As usual the lower ~ 90% will get a big ol plate of suffering and death.
 
2018-03-02 03:23:35 PM  
Wait, technically, isn't nearly all carbon the same age? I mean, sure, it's been through some changes, but technically...
 
2018-03-02 06:21:02 PM  

stevenrushing: Seriously folk, it is time to stop talking about climate change as if it were a thing that could be stopped. I mean, maybe it could, but it won't. Fact. It is time to start talking about how we are going to mitigate the problems that come with climate change. That means holding back the sea or moving mass populations of people. Figuring out how to feed them when farms fail due to drought, etc. Way above my pay grade or intelligence level to solve, but not above my ability to see the problem.

We won't stop climate change. Just won't. It is time to figure out what we are going to do so our children and their children survive through it.


I like the idea of space based climate control.  If things get too hot just produce a bit of shade, if too cool extra sun.  I'm sure we would learn a lot about climate experimenting with a system that could do this.

As for holding back the sea, no problem we have been there and done that, as for moving people, they will move themselves.  I can't see food becoming an issue, lots of northern land that can be put into use, given a bit of warming. If climate actually becomes an issue (instead of the current doomer fantasy) you will see all kinds of mitigation methods.
 
2018-03-02 07:12:39 PM  

Ambivalence: RedVentrue: Ambivalence: SomeAmerican: Actually, they don't know if it is bad thing or a neutral thing.  There is no good option.

Yeah, I was going to say, this is definitely not a good thing.

I don't know about that. Paleontologically speaking; life seems to thrive in a warmer climate.

I promise you, we're not all going to fit in Antarctica.  Some places are supposed to be colder.


We probably could, provided it was warm enough. According to my calculations, the world population divided by Antarctica's area comes to about 543 people per square kilometer. That's pretty close to the average density of Worst Korea so it should be feasible.

It would certainly be an interesting world if we all moved there to escape the heat and supercyclones.
 
2018-03-02 07:22:30 PM  

dragonchild: Microorganisms that have been locked in permafrost for millions of years means they've been isolated for all that time.  If one of them is suddenly exposed to an active immune system, it wouldn't have evolved any defense against it.


Right, that's why the microorganisms Europeans carried to the Americas were harmless to the people there...oh wait...

Pathogens don't want to cause a plague and wreak death and destruction. Tiny little bugs just want to have a square meal and raise a family like everyone else. Anything that coevolves with a host will tend to become less virulent and more symbiotic over time, because less illness in the host means it's more likely to spread. So it's precisely because something has been isolated that it's more dangerous.

What I'm saying is we're DOOMED...
 
2018-03-03 01:22:49 AM  
The Thing
1982
 
2018-03-03 08:02:12 PM  

MurphyMurphy: Free market solutions will provide.

Well, at least for a certain % of the population.

As usual the lower ~ 90% will get a big ol plate of suffering and death.


look on the bright side. once that 90% suffers and dies, 9 out of 10 people left alive will find themselves in the new lower 90%
 
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