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(The Firearm Blog)   So...remember that guy who cut his AR-15 in half on YouTube? Yeah, it looks like he may have done that illegally   ( thefirearmblog.com) divider line
    More: Followup, Firearm, gun, people, chop saw, gun owners, gun laws, tactic Gun Owners, non gun owners  
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10859 clicks; posted to Main » on 25 Feb 2018 at 12:42 AM (21 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2018-02-24 10:11:52 PM  
So destroying an AR-15 requires a precise multiple step procedure and record keeping, while BUYING an AR-15 is easy?
 
2018-02-24 10:39:46 PM  
Well, that's 20 years in prison!
God bless America!
 
2018-02-24 11:00:10 PM  
img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2018-02-24 11:07:36 PM  
LOCK HIM UP!
 
2018-02-24 11:19:27 PM  

netringer: So destroying an AR-15 requires a precise multiple step procedure and record keeping, while BUYING an AR-15 is easy?


No, there are prescribed multiple steps for destroying a NFA "machine gun" unless you melt the lower receiver which is one step. Since the first cut from the chop saw cut both the barrel and the gas tube, TFA is full of it when it claims that he made it into a semi-auto short barreled rifle with that cut.  No direct gas pressure from the tube onto the bolt carrier won't allow the weapon to unlock and thus it cannot complete the cycle by cocking, feeding and locking the bolt again.  The bolt could be manually unlocked by pulling on the charging handle which will bring the bolt carrier back as if normally would through direct gas impingement on the bolt carrier group even without an intact gas tube.  But since the guy went on to use his chop saw on the receiver (both upper and lower) and he's not a FFL and the weapon isn't a NFA weapon (assuming it's not one of the few early AR-15's with a M16 lower receiver and a semi-auto AR-15 trigger group, that can be converted to full auto simply by removing the original trigger group and dropping a M16 trigger group into it) he doesn't have to notify ATF when he destroys it.
 
2018-02-25 12:04:40 AM  
Some people are unusually upset that this guy chose to destroy his rifle because it was the same make and model as the one used in the school shooting, more so than they are upset at the actual school shooting. Curious.
 
2018-02-25 12:10:00 AM  
Does the relevant law not require mens rea? His intention was to destroy the gun, not manufacture an illegal variant.
 
2018-02-25 12:14:36 AM  
So THAT we'll prosecute? Nice.
 
2018-02-25 12:33:50 AM  
Motto of site: "Firearms, Not Politics."

I'd hate to be their comment thread moderator.
 
2018-02-25 12:43:44 AM  

MikeyFuccon: Motto of site: "Firearms, Not Politics."

I'd hate to be their comment thread moderator.


I read them occasionally.  They don't do a very good job of it.

There's another article on there about some HK 416 lower receivers being destroyed (for an unknown, but necessary reason).  Virtually every comment attached to that is whiny 2nd Amendment-fellating bullshiat.
 
2018-02-25 12:45:30 AM  
img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2018-02-25 12:46:42 AM  
Meh.
 
2018-02-25 12:46:51 AM  
This thread is irrelevant.  Someone called this out in one of the Boobiess of the original thread.
 
2018-02-25 12:47:35 AM  
NEWSFLASH  No one will ever even consider prosecuting this man for this supposed crime.
 
2018-02-25 12:49:07 AM  
Paging Nell Carter to the beige courtesy phone
A break is needed
 
2018-02-25 12:51:45 AM  
His intentions were clear: destruction and ultimately rendering the weapon permanently inoperable.

The blowback (sorry) from making this a political issue would be far more damaging than that he did to the arm itself.  People upset about the underlying message this particular owner was asserting bring these issues to the table out of petty vindication.

I'd go so far as to say his actions are protected free speech
 
2018-02-25 12:52:18 AM  
Really, this appears to be nothing other than shiat-stirring illogical garbage. That gun is done.
 
2018-02-25 12:52:42 AM  

Sid_6.7: Does the relevant law not require mens rea? His intention was to destroy the gun, not manufacture an illegal variant.


This country hasn't cared about mens rea for 30 years.  In the case of NFA toys like SBRs or suppressors, they don't really care about mens rea.  If you have the thing, and you aren't supposed to have the thing, then there's no excusing it.

With that said, yes, he absolutely and technically did commit a federal felony by first creating a short-barred rifle and it could easily be argued (by an asshole) that we then attempted to dispose of the evidence when he did finally cut up the lower receiver.  The ATF would be complete farking morons - even more than they usually are when they're criminalizing possession of shoelaces - to actually bother to prosecute this.  I can't even imagine how bad the optics would be for the ATF to try and actually hit this guy with a 10-yr/$10k criminal charge when he's clearly detailed why he's doing it and the video'd gone viral.

Absolutely nobody in the goddamn country should be pushing for this guy's prosecution.  They will.  Because he owned a gun.  But they shouldn't.

/I'm not joking.  The ATF criminalized shoelaces.  They were considered, "a tool capable of converting a semi-automatic firearm to operate in fully-automatic mode."
//they backed down
 
2018-02-25 12:55:48 AM  
No sh*t, now do you all understand why gun owners are so pedantic about the rules?

Cut the barrel first, 10 year felony.  Cut the barrel second, you're deactivating a rifle.

But with a saw both are felonies, because you didn't destroy enough of the lower that it couldn't be welded back together.
 
2018-02-25 12:56:44 AM  
First amendment much? Turn the scrap over to the ATF.
 
2018-02-25 12:57:37 AM  

Ken S.: NEWSFLASH  No one will ever even consider prosecuting this man for this supposed crime.


Well, how about we ask the ATF?  They love busting anybody just to make sure they appear relevant.  TBH, he needs to be taught not to post videos that can teach the next crazy shooter how to make the gun more concealable, which is why the law exist.

As for how smart this guy is, what he did is only useful if he knew he would likely go shooting some people.  Otherwise, the gun could've just sat securely in his home, not killing anyone.
 
2018-02-25 12:59:33 AM  
youu cAN cut th e despaaration with a knife
 
2018-02-25 01:00:42 AM  

lack of warmth: Ken S.: NEWSFLASH  No one will ever even consider prosecuting this man for this supposed crime.

Well, how about we ask the ATF?  They love busting anybody just to make sure they appear relevant.  TBH, he needs to be taught not to post videos that can teach the next crazy shooter how to make the gun more concealable, which is why the law exist.

As for how smart this guy is, what he did is only useful if he knew he would likely go shooting some people.  Otherwise, the gun could've just sat securely in his home, not killing anyone.


So you think this video teaches how to shorten a barrel? I guess if you are ok with making your concealable AR-15 a single action.
 
2018-02-25 01:02:43 AM  

FightDirector: Sid_6.7: Does the relevant law not require mens rea? His intention was to destroy the gun, not manufacture an illegal variant.

This country hasn't cared about mens rea for 30 years.  In the case of NFA toys like SBRs or suppressors, they don't really care about mens rea.  If you have the thing, and you aren't supposed to have the thing, then there's no excusing it.

With that said, yes, he absolutely and technically did commit a federal felony by first creating a short-barred rifle and it could easily be argued (by an asshole) that we then attempted to dispose of the evidence when he did finally cut up the lower receiver.  The ATF would be complete farking morons - even more than they usually are when they're criminalizing possession of shoelaces - to actually bother to prosecute this.  I can't even imagine how bad the optics would be for the ATF to try and actually hit this guy with a 10-yr/$10k criminal charge when he's clearly detailed why he's doing it and the video'd gone viral.

Absolutely nobody in the goddamn country should be pushing for this guy's prosecution.  They will.  Because he owned a gun.  But they shouldn't.

/I'm not joking.  The ATF criminalized shoelaces.  They were considered, "a tool capable of converting a semi-automatic firearm to operate in fully-automatic mode."
//they backed down


OTOH, if the BATFE did decide to become anal enough to bust the guy AND remain that anal, I'm sure they would have a field day prosecuting any number of other gun nuts and Trumpers (but I repeat myself) for any number of other crimes.  Hell, there would be a whole cottage industry of liberal folks watching videos and searching pics online for such crimes and then doxxing and reporting them to BATFE, cc: the media and social media.

/definitely not suggesting that
//also not speculating on blowback against Trump and the GOP over BATFE enforcing the laws as written while they hold office.
///at least not until safely out of the country
 
2018-02-25 01:02:54 AM  
He just doesn't understand assault rifles.

img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2018-02-25 01:03:37 AM  

netringer: So destroying an AR-15 requires a precise multiple step procedure and record keeping


But remember, guns are totally unregulated.

Given that driving rights are vastly more regulated, imagine how much more difficult it must be to junk a car!
 
2018-02-25 01:04:02 AM  

King Something: Some people are unusually upset that this guy chose to destroy his rifle because it was the same make and model as the one used in the school shooting, more so than they are upset at the actual school shooting. Curious.


What he did is pointless. Really just to make people "feel good" and to "do something." His gun was very unlikely to be involved in a crime.

We need to realize the world isn't perfect and do our best to prevent these crimes via better gun regulation and warning sign follow-up.

Or repeal the 2nd.

One accepts there will be gun murders. The other is the first step to eradicate gun murders.

/Used to deer hunt with that type of rifle.
//Non scary looking guns kill just the same
 
2018-02-25 01:05:48 AM  

Sid_6.7: Does the relevant law not require mens rea? His intention was to destroy the gun, not manufacture an illegal variant.


Strict liability doesn't require mens rea.
 
2018-02-25 01:07:34 AM  

This text is now purple: netringer: So destroying an AR-15 requires a precise multiple step procedure and record keeping

But remember, guns are totally unregulated.

Given that driving rights are vastly more regulated, imagine how much more difficult it must be to junk a car!


What's with comparing driving permission with guns rights?

I'm personally much more worried about poor drivers not knowing the rules of the road than I am of gun crime.
 
2018-02-25 01:08:23 AM  
"If you are disassembling a firearm and only scrapping the frame or receiver, then you're A&D Book must first reflect the change in form prior to the final scrap disposition."

img.fark.netView Full Size


How can I possibly take the ATF seriously?
 
2018-02-25 01:08:49 AM  

bobbyjoebobby: King Something: Some people are unusually upset that this guy chose to destroy his rifle because it was the same make and model as the one used in the school shooting, more so than they are upset at the actual school shooting. Curious.

What he did is pointless. Really just to make people "feel good" and to "do something." His gun was very unlikely to be involved in a crime.

We need to realize the world isn't perfect and do our best to prevent these crimes via better gun regulation and warning sign follow-up.

Or repeal the 2nd.

One accepts there will be gun murders. The other is the first step to eradicate gun murders.

/Used to deer hunt with that type of rifle.
//Non scary looking guns kill just the same


Plus the whole myth about people getting shot by their own guns during a break in is stupid so he didn't help that, either.  And if a break in occurred and his gun wasn't used, it's probably that it could have been used in a crime after being stolen.  Or perhaps he gets dementia later in life and used it to kill those around him.

Who cares?  It's one less weapon that unnecessary in a civilized society willing to seek peace.
 
2018-02-25 01:08:59 AM  

stan unusual: netringer: So destroying an AR-15 requires a precise multiple step procedure and record keeping, while BUYING an AR-15 is easy?

No, there are prescribed multiple steps for destroying a NFA "machine gun" unless you melt the lower receiver which is one step. Since the first cut from the chop saw cut both the barrel and the gas tube, TFA is full of it when it claims that he made it into a semi-auto short barreled rifle with that cut.  No direct gas pressure from the tube onto the bolt carrier won't allow the weapon to unlock and thus it cannot complete the cycle by cocking, feeding and locking the bolt again.  The bolt could be manually unlocked by pulling on the charging handle which will bring the bolt carrier back as if normally would through direct gas impingement on the bolt carrier group even without an intact gas tube.  But since the guy went on to use his chop saw on the receiver (both upper and lower) and he's not a FFL and the weapon isn't a NFA weapon (assuming it's not one of the few early AR-15's with a M16 lower receiver and a semi-auto AR-15 trigger group, that can be converted to full auto simply by removing the original trigger group and dropping a M16 trigger group into it) he doesn't have to notify ATF when he destroys it.


If the issue were he converted it into a short-barrel rifle (and fell backward into an NFA device), it doesn't matter whether or not it started life as auto-capable (a machine gun). He could have chopped a shotgun and ended up in the same place.

Hell, it's worse with a shotgun. A sawed off or short-barrel single-shot shotgun is still illegal. It's theoretically illegal to put a shotgun shell in a PVC tube and hit it with a hammer. (Although it's theoretically legal if you do it without the tube; never let it be said laws are rational)
 
2018-02-25 01:09:31 AM  

Sid_6.7: Does the relevant law not require mens rea? His intention was to destroy the gun, not manufacture an illegal variant.


Jive mens rea and constructive intent, then get back to the class.
 
2018-02-25 01:10:00 AM  

Ken S.: lack of warmth: Ken S.: NEWSFLASH  No one will ever even consider prosecuting this man for this supposed crime.

Well, how about we ask the ATF?  They love busting anybody just to make sure they appear relevant.  TBH, he needs to be taught not to post videos that can teach the next crazy shooter how to make the gun more concealable, which is why the law exist.

As for how smart this guy is, what he did is only useful if he knew he would likely go shooting some people.  Otherwise, the gun could've just sat securely in his home, not killing anyone.

So you think this video teaches how to shorten a barrel? I guess if you are ok with making your concealable AR-15 a single action.


I know of a murder in Flint carried out using a semi-automatic .22, missing grips, taped together, and missing magazine.  The guy broke into a house with a single bullet in the chamber, beaten a man, then shot him in the head as he sat on the floor.  Yeah, there's people who are willing to carry a single shot weapon.  And considering the guy was on foot, I'm sure it mattered more that it was easier to hide it on his person.  Especially later that evening when the cops showed up, and he talked with them while still holding the weapon on his person.

/true story
//story I got while sitting in the jury box.
 
2018-02-25 01:10:14 AM  
Nooooooooo 😮
 
2018-02-25 01:10:46 AM  
For those of you screaming about illegal sbrs please allow me to show you the wrist brace

Pistol
media.midwayusa.comView Full Size

Rifle
aeroprecisionusa.comView Full Size
 
2018-02-25 01:10:51 AM  
Much like babies and corporations, assault rifles are full fledged citizens at the time of conception and to destroy them is tantamount to abortion, or murder, or worse.

/seriously we're not far from this
 
2018-02-25 01:11:47 AM  

bobbyjoebobby: His gun was very unlikely to be involved in a crime.


Well, up until such time as he committed two felonies mutilating it.
 
2018-02-25 01:12:40 AM  

bobbyjoebobby: This text is now purple: netringer: So destroying an AR-15 requires a precise multiple step procedure and record keeping

But remember, guns are totally unregulated.

Given that driving rights are vastly more regulated, imagine how much more difficult it must be to junk a car!

What's with comparing driving permission with guns rights?

I'm personally much more worried about poor drivers not knowing the rules of the road than I am of gun crime.


I dunno. The civil prohibitionists seem to like it, so I used it.
 
2018-02-25 01:17:19 AM  

smerfnablin: For those of you screaming about illegal sbrs please allow me to show you the wrist brace

Pistol
[media.midwayusa.com image 850x637]
Rifle
[aeroprecisionusa.com image 850x535]


Last I looked, it's still cheaper to paper an SBR than buy a brace.  SBR also opens you to any upper/stock combo while a brace can draw unwanted attention.

/Papered SBR and braced pistol, I'd rather SBR per my state rules.
 
2018-02-25 01:21:31 AM  
Somebody's blog sucks.
 
2018-02-25 01:27:04 AM  
Big whup. You can buy a decent replacement AR for as little as $500
 
2018-02-25 01:30:10 AM  
Why not just fill the action and barrel full of concrete or molten lead?
 
2018-02-25 01:30:47 AM  

Thingster: Sid_6.7: Does the relevant law not require mens rea? His intention was to destroy the gun, not manufacture an illegal variant.

Jive mens rea and constructive intent, then get back to the class.


img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2018-02-25 01:36:35 AM  

Ed Grubermann: Why not just fill the action and barrel full of concrete or molten lead?


Or just get one of those aftermarket high cap magazines sold during the Clinton assault weapons ban.  They rendered my guns pretty much inoperable.
 
2018-02-25 01:50:39 AM  

MikeyFuccon: Motto of site: "Firearms, Not Politics."

I'd hate to be their comment thread moderator.


I think the mods over there have surrendered at this point. So many threads have some mouth breathing Trumpian jackass posting.
 
2018-02-25 01:50:51 AM  
It's sad to see people buying into the fear that the media loves to serve up on a silver platter. "Assault style" weapons are hardly ever used for crime. Handguns are where the concern should be.

Dealing with systemic inner city poverty is how we start to fix the gun violence problem in this country, not freely giving away our rights. Once they start chipping away at the bill of rights and see that people are ok with it, where do you think it will stop? It wont, not until we are all under their boot.
 
2018-02-25 01:56:45 AM  
And yet if you do this to a child it's perfectly legal.
 
2018-02-25 02:05:35 AM  

evilized: It's sad to see people buying into the fear that the media loves to serve up on a silver platter. "Assault style" weapons are hardly ever used for crime. Handguns are where the concern should be.

Dealing with systemic inner city poverty is how we start to fix the gun violence problem in this country, not freely giving away our rights. Once they start chipping away at the bill of rights and see that people are ok with it, where do you think it will stop? It wont, not until we are all under their boot.


So what rights would be under attack if we made it more difficult for Joe Sixpack to legally buy a semiautomatic military assault rifle? How, exactly, is it a bad thing to tell people they can use pump-action shotguns and bolt- or lever-action rifles, but not M-16s, for home defense and deer hunting?

And how do you propose "[d]ealing with systemic inner city poverty" to fix the gun violence problem? And what part of your proposal would be mutually exclusive with "let's stop handing out tools specifically designed to kill humans, like Halloween candy to any schmuck with $500 cash"?


/I'll agree with you on the part that gun violence and inner city poverty are problems that need fixing
 
2018-02-25 02:08:33 AM  

Wyalt Derp: And yet if you do this to a child it's perfectly legal.


img.fark.netView Full Size

/his name is Solomon
 
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