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(Five Thirty-Eight)   Las Vegas Golden Knights now have the most successful franchise debut in the history of professional sports. Mark Davis interested, nods approval   ( fivethirtyeight.com) divider line
    More: Cool, expansion team, Pittsburgh Penguins, expansion teams, NHL expansion, NHL expansion team, National Hockey League, Expansion draft, Montreal Canadiens  
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757 clicks; posted to Sports » on 22 Feb 2018 at 1:50 PM (21 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2018-02-22 12:19:44 PM  
Ice hockey in the middle of the desert.  Whatever they are doing, it must be working!
 
2018-02-22 01:16:50 PM  
And yet they're 17th in attendance in the NHL.  The 17-32 Sabres are in 9th place with half the population base.
 
2018-02-22 01:42:00 PM  
FTA:

Constructed as a Frankenstein's monster of unwanted parts from the rest of the league

Yes, I'm sure the Pittsburgh Penguins had no use whatsoever for three-time Stanley Cup champion and #1 overall pick in 2003, Marc Andre Fleury.

That sentence glosses over the single biggest reason for Vegas' success; they are the first expansion team of the salary cap era, which dramatically changed the landscape for how the expansion draft was constructed.

Previous expansion drafts absolutely were unwanted spare parts thrown to the new franchise in the hope they could somehow gel and become competitive. With a few bright spots, the result was usually pretty disastrous. The reason previous expansion teams were so bad is because teams had no salary cap to consider and could simply expose the worst of their players with little to fear.

With the salary cap and the number of players teams were allowed to protect, the Vegas expansion, by design, was going to cause pain for a lot of teams.

Now having said that, the Golden Knights have clearly gelled as a team and are playing terrific hockey, so hats off to them, they deserve accolades.

I'm just saying this expansion compared to past expansions isn't really apples to apples.
 
2018-02-22 01:54:20 PM  
Rev.K:

We have a winner
 
2018-02-22 01:57:26 PM  

Rev.K: FTA:

Constructed as a Frankenstein's monster of unwanted parts from the rest of the league

Yes, I'm sure the Pittsburgh Penguins had no use whatsoever for three-time Stanley Cup champion and #1 overall pick in 2003, Marc Andre Fleury.

That sentence glosses over the single biggest reason for Vegas' success; they are the first expansion team of the salary cap era, which dramatically changed the landscape for how the expansion draft was constructed.

Previous expansion drafts absolutely were unwanted spare parts thrown to the new franchise in the hope they could somehow gel and become competitive. With a few bright spots, the result was usually pretty disastrous. The reason previous expansion teams were so bad is because teams had no salary cap to consider and could simply expose the worst of their players with little to fear.

With the salary cap and the number of players teams were allowed to protect, the Vegas expansion, by design, was going to cause pain for a lot of teams.

Now having said that, the Golden Knights have clearly gelled as a team and are playing terrific hockey, so hats off to them, they deserve accolades.

I'm just saying this expansion compared to past expansions isn't really apples to apples.


Useful info, thanks.

In any event, good on them.  There's super cheap flights out of my neck of the woods to Vegas, might fly down there and take in a game.
 
2018-02-22 01:58:56 PM  

stir22: Ice hockey in the middle of the desert.  Whatever they are doing, it must be working!


Picture of their training regimen:
img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2018-02-22 02:10:59 PM  
The Las Vegas Raiders are not a new franchise.
 
2018-02-22 02:13:25 PM  
Umm, what now?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clevela​n​d_Browns#Founding_and_success_in_the_A​AFC_(1944%E2%80%931949)

The Browns won the championship in their first five seasons as a franchise, across the AAFC and the NFL.

They started 73-7-3, prior to losing the 1951 title game.

It's hard to top a .898 win percentage and five titles.
 
2018-02-22 02:20:40 PM  
Remember in June, when everyone was all "Vegas is going to suck... maybe they'll be competitive in a few years." LOL. I will be very interested to see how Seattle fares in a few years.
 
2018-02-22 02:28:46 PM  

This text is now purple: Umm, what now?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clevelan​d_Browns#Founding_and_success_in_the_A​AFC_(1944%E2%80%931949)

The Browns won the championship in their first five seasons as a franchise, across the AAFC and the NFL.

They started 73-7-3, prior to losing the 1951 title game.

It's hard to top a .898 win percentage and five titles.


Hardly a fair comparison. The Browns were part of a brand new league playing only other expansion teams. They were incredibly impressive and Brown built his team better than everyone else did, but they didn't join a league with established teams.
 
2018-02-22 02:34:59 PM  
When you put a brick wall in front of the net, it makes it difficult for the opponent to score a goal.

Hearts for Flower.
 
2018-02-22 02:43:06 PM  

dustygrimp: This text is now purple: Umm, what now?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clevelan​d_Browns#Founding_and_success_in_the_A​AFC_(1944%E2%80%931949)

The Browns won the championship in their first five seasons as a franchise, across the AAFC and the NFL.

They started 73-7-3, prior to losing the 1951 title game.

It's hard to top a .898 win percentage and five titles.

Hardly a fair comparison. The Browns were part of a brand new league playing only other expansion teams. They were incredibly impressive and Brown built his team better than everyone else did, but they didn't join a league with established teams.


And they had a truly ground-breaking coach, in a sport where game-day coaching is a big deal.  Unlike hockey.
 
2018-02-22 02:59:13 PM  

Rev.K: FTA:

Constructed as a Frankenstein's monster of unwanted parts from the rest of the league

Yes, I'm sure the Pittsburgh Penguins had no use whatsoever for three-time Stanley Cup champion and #1 overall pick in 2003, Marc Andre Fleury.

That sentence glosses over the single biggest reason for Vegas' success; they are the first expansion team of the salary cap era, which dramatically changed the landscape for how the expansion draft was constructed.

Previous expansion drafts absolutely were unwanted spare parts thrown to the new franchise in the hope they could somehow gel and become competitive. With a few bright spots, the result was usually pretty disastrous. The reason previous expansion teams were so bad is because teams had no salary cap to consider and could simply expose the worst of their players with little to fear.

With the salary cap and the number of players teams were allowed to protect, the Vegas expansion, by design, was going to cause pain for a lot of teams.

Now having said that, the Golden Knights have clearly gelled as a team and are playing terrific hockey, so hats off to them, they deserve accolades.

I'm just saying this expansion compared to past expansions isn't really apples to apples.


This so much.
I'll always miss Fleury :(
 
2018-02-22 03:00:33 PM  

boozehat: When you put a brick wall in front of the net, it makes it difficult for the opponent to score a goal.

Hearts for Flower.


So when is Fleury gonna Fleury?
 
2018-02-22 03:04:05 PM  
Yeah, but they still have to live in Las Vegas.
 
2018-02-22 03:06:49 PM  

OtherLittleGuy: boozehat: When you put a brick wall in front of the net, it makes it difficult for the opponent to score a goal.

Hearts for Flower.

So when is Fleury gonna Fleury?


April.
 
2018-02-22 03:15:52 PM  

Mikey1969: Yeah, but they still have to live in Las Vegas.


img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2018-02-22 03:37:55 PM  
What did you expect from the land of odd$
 
2018-02-22 04:01:58 PM  
img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2018-02-22 04:19:38 PM  

dustygrimp: This text is now purple: Umm, what now?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clevelan​d_Browns#Founding_and_success_in_the_A​AFC_(1944%E2%80%931949)

The Browns won the championship in their first five seasons as a franchise, across the AAFC and the NFL.

They started 73-7-3, prior to losing the 1951 title game.

It's hard to top a .898 win percentage and five titles.

Hardly a fair comparison. The Browns were part of a brand new league playing only other expansion teams. They were incredibly impressive and Brown built his team better than everyone else did, but they didn't join a league with established teams.


They joined the NFL as an expansion team.
 
2018-02-22 04:21:56 PM  

I should be in the kitchen: Remember in June, when everyone was all "Vegas is going to suck... maybe they'll be competitive in a few years." LOL. I will be very interested to see how Seattle fares in a few years.


For the reasons Rev.K mentioned above, no reasonable people were saying this.  In fact, most talk was about their chances of being a playoff team.
 
2018-02-22 04:28:56 PM  

Mikey1969: Yeah, but they still have to live in Las Vegas.


Dude, you live in SLC, seriously STFU
 
2018-02-22 04:38:17 PM  

Polartank13: Mikey1969: Yeah, but they still have to live in Las Vegas.

Dude, you live in SLC, seriously STFU


Why? Vegas in in a wasteland of blasted desert. Hell, Phoenix has more actual reason for existing in the desert than Las Vegas. Here, I have mountains, streams and rivers that not only are naturally occurring, but have water in them, skiing, camping, wildlife, and even rain and snow. Vegas is just hot, dirty, and shiatty.
 
2018-02-22 04:52:26 PM  

Mikey1969: Yeah, but they still have to live in Las Vegas.


Vegas is a fun town to live in, every weekend there are tons of farking entertainment options. Yes it's hot in the summer for a couple months, that's what AC is for.

VegasStrong
 
2018-02-22 04:56:32 PM  

Mikey1969: Polartank13: Mikey1969: Yeah, but they still have to live in Las Vegas.

Dude, you live in SLC, seriously STFU

Why? Vegas in in a wasteland of blasted desert. Hell, Phoenix has more actual reason for existing in the desert than Las Vegas. Here, I have mountains, streams and rivers that not only are naturally occurring, but have water in them, skiing, camping, wildlife, and even rain and snow. Vegas is just hot, dirty, and shiatty.


Dude, I live 6 miles from Lake Mead, maybe 20 to the Colorado River south of the dam which is peppered with great hot springs and kayaking, half hour to Red Rock for fun climbing and hiking, 40 minutes to Lee Canyon for skiing.

You don't know what your'e talking about
 
2018-02-22 05:08:45 PM  

martissimo: Mikey1969: Polartank13: Mikey1969: Yeah, but they still have to live in Las Vegas.

Dude, you live in SLC, seriously STFU

Why? Vegas in in a wasteland of blasted desert. Hell, Phoenix has more actual reason for existing in the desert than Las Vegas. Here, I have mountains, streams and rivers that not only are naturally occurring, but have water in them, skiing, camping, wildlife, and even rain and snow. Vegas is just hot, dirty, and shiatty.

Dude, I live 6 miles from Lake Mead, maybe 20 to the Colorado River south of the dam which is peppered with great hot springs and kayaking, half hour to Red Rock for fun climbing and hiking, 40 minutes to Lee Canyon for skiing.

You don't know what your'e talking about


So you have like 7 total options? I have something like 17 ski resorts within an hours' drive. But I'm anxiously awaiting the Winter Olympics in "Lee Canyon". I'm sure those 11 runs are just dandy.
 
2018-02-22 05:13:58 PM  

Mikey1969: martissimo: Mikey1969: Polartank13: Mikey1969: Yeah, but they still have to live in Las Vegas.

Dude, you live in SLC, seriously STFU

Why? Vegas in in a wasteland of blasted desert. Hell, Phoenix has more actual reason for existing in the desert than Las Vegas. Here, I have mountains, streams and rivers that not only are naturally occurring, but have water in them, skiing, camping, wildlife, and even rain and snow. Vegas is just hot, dirty, and shiatty.

Dude, I live 6 miles from Lake Mead, maybe 20 to the Colorado River south of the dam which is peppered with great hot springs and kayaking, half hour to Red Rock for fun climbing and hiking, 40 minutes to Lee Canyon for skiing.

You don't know what your'e talking about

So you have like 7 total options? I have something like 17 ski resorts within an hours' drive. But I'm anxiously awaiting the Winter Olympics in "Lee Canyon". I'm sure those 11 runs are just dandy.


Yeah that's true, but it's close. Brian Head ain't too far though. Vegas ain't that bad, it's a lot more than just "The Strip" and those hotels (which pay my bills at a much higher rate than carpenters get in Utah, like twice as much).

Also Red Rock really is magnificent, there are climbs there that rival Yosemite on the difficulty scale that are gorgeous
 
2018-02-22 05:40:54 PM  

martissimo: Mikey1969: martissimo: Mikey1969: Polartank13: Mikey1969: Yeah, but they still have to live in Las Vegas.

Dude, you live in SLC, seriously STFU

Why? Vegas in in a wasteland of blasted desert. Hell, Phoenix has more actual reason for existing in the desert than Las Vegas. Here, I have mountains, streams and rivers that not only are naturally occurring, but have water in them, skiing, camping, wildlife, and even rain and snow. Vegas is just hot, dirty, and shiatty.

Dude, I live 6 miles from Lake Mead, maybe 20 to the Colorado River south of the dam which is peppered with great hot springs and kayaking, half hour to Red Rock for fun climbing and hiking, 40 minutes to Lee Canyon for skiing.

You don't know what your'e talking about

So you have like 7 total options? I have something like 17 ski resorts within an hours' drive. But I'm anxiously awaiting the Winter Olympics in "Lee Canyon". I'm sure those 11 runs are just dandy.

Yeah that's true, but it's close. Brian Head ain't too far though. Vegas ain't that bad, it's a lot more than just "The Strip" and those hotels (which pay my bills at a much higher rate than carpenters get in Utah, like twice as much).

Also Red Rock really is magnificent, there are climbs there that rival Yosemite on the difficulty scale that are gorgeous


Fair enough. Vegas is a place I can handle for about 2 days, I'd love to visit things like the pinball museum, but the place drives me crazy. And God forbid I journey more than 3 blocks from the Strip. Holy crap, THAT was a fun night... Walked from Fremont to the Strip because I had time to kill... And then walked back.
 
2018-02-22 05:55:15 PM  

Rev.K: Yes, I'm sure the Pittsburgh Penguins had no use whatsoever for three-time Stanley Cup champion and #1 overall pick in 2003, Marc Andre Fleury.


They really didn't. They were hoping to move him once they knew what they had in Murray, but there weren't a lot of takers for his contract. Vegas was a great way to get rid of him. Win/win.
 
2018-02-22 06:22:48 PM  
If the Knights make the Stanley Cup final, let alone win it, just how much are Vegas bookmakers going to lose to those who made preseason bets on them to make it (back when it was sensible to put them at hundreds-to-one odds)?
 
2018-02-22 06:50:34 PM  

Rapmaster2000: And yet they're 17th in attendance in the NHL.  The 17-32 Sabres are in 9th place with half the population base.


That was probably be the case this year. Early success can start building longer term loyalty though. However, if they are consistently out of the mix over their first few years they might be doomed. I don't think Carolina would have remained truly viable without their early success. Nashville has likely gotten the injection they need to be strong for a while.
 
2018-02-22 06:59:40 PM  

BlazeTrailer: Rapmaster2000: And yet they're 17th in attendance in the NHL.  The 17-32 Sabres are in 9th place with half the population base.

That was probably be the case this year. Early success can start building longer term loyalty though. However, if they are consistently out of the mix over their first few years they might be doomed. I don't think Carolina would have remained truly viable without their early success. Nashville has likely gotten the injection they need to be strong for a while.


The stadium they play in is a nightmare for parking and costs a fortune to park at, that part is a nightmare. I work and park in a parking garage that Knights fans pay big money to get in, when I get off work it takes over an hour to get out of that garage some nights. Getting in is worse, I literally have to check their schedule to see if I need extra gas to make it home from work travelling .01 mph for an hour
 
2018-02-22 07:06:51 PM  

martissimo: BlazeTrailer: Rapmaster2000: And yet they're 17th in attendance in the NHL.  The 17-32 Sabres are in 9th place with half the population base.

That was probably be the case this year. Early success can start building longer term loyalty though. However, if they are consistently out of the mix over their first few years they might be doomed. I don't think Carolina would have remained truly viable without their early success. Nashville has likely gotten the injection they need to be strong for a while.

The stadium they play in is a nightmare for parking and costs a fortune to park at, that part is a nightmare. I work and park in a parking garage that Knights fans pay big money to get in, when I get off work it takes over an hour to get out of that garage some nights. Getting in is worse, I literally have to check their schedule to see if I need extra gas to make it home from work travelling .01 mph for an hour


Serious question as I don't know your town:  How do you think the Raider's arrival will impact the Knights attendance?  Can Vegas support two teams?
 
2018-02-22 07:12:38 PM  
skeeterjennings:  Serious question as I don't know your town:  How do you think the Raider's arrival will impact the Knights attendance?  Can Vegas support two teams?

A LOT of Raiders fans in this town, but who knows, schedules are fairly separate, the number of Knights stickers I see on cars is growing really really fast
 
2018-02-22 07:18:44 PM  

martissimo: skeeterjennings:  Serious question as I don't know your town:  How do you think the Raider's arrival will impact the Knights attendance?  Can Vegas support two teams?

A LOT of Raiders fans in this town, but who knows, schedules are fairly separate, the number of Knights stickers I see on cars is growing really really fast


One more question: What happens if the Knights tank next season?  I seem to recall they have a lot of one-year contracts on their roster and could have a pretty different team next year.

/watched a minor-league expansion team implode from inside the front office, still kinda fascinated by the mechanics of it all...
 
2018-02-22 07:30:53 PM  

martissimo: skeeterjennings:  Serious question as I don't know your town:  How do you think the Raider's arrival will impact the Knights attendance?  Can Vegas support two teams?

A LOT of Raiders fans in this town, but who knows, schedules are fairly separate, the number of Knights stickers I see on cars is growing really really fast


There must be a couple of these still floating around.

img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2018-02-22 07:36:35 PM  

skeeterjennings: martissimo: skeeterjennings:  Serious question as I don't know your town:  How do you think the Raider's arrival will impact the Knights attendance?  Can Vegas support two teams?

A LOT of Raiders fans in this town, but who knows, schedules are fairly separate, the number of Knights stickers I see on cars is growing really really fast

One more question: What happens if the Knights tank next season?  I seem to recall they have a lot of one-year contracts on their roster and could have a pretty different team next year.

/watched a minor-league expansion team implode from inside the front office, still kinda fascinated by the mechanics of it all...


Dude, I ain't Nostradamus, the city is getting into it, but who the fark knows, they've played a half a season
 
2018-02-22 08:42:10 PM  

IlGreven: If the Knights make the Stanley Cup final, let alone win it, just how much are Vegas bookmakers going to lose to those who made preseason bets on them to make it (back when it was sensible to put them at hundreds-to-one odds)?


I seem to recall the day the franchise was announced, they were getting 1,000,000 to 1 odds of winning the Cup in their first year.   Wonder if anybody took them up on it.
 
2018-02-22 09:31:57 PM  

martissimo: BlazeTrailer: Rapmaster2000: And yet they're 17th in attendance in the NHL.  The 17-32 Sabres are in 9th place with half the population base.

That was probably be the case this year. Early success can start building longer term loyalty though. However, if they are consistently out of the mix over their first few years they might be doomed. I don't think Carolina would have remained truly viable without their early success. Nashville has likely gotten the injection they need to be strong for a while.

The stadium they play in is a nightmare for parking and costs a fortune to park at, that part is a nightmare. I work and park in a parking garage that Knights fans pay big money to get in, when I get off work it takes over an hour to get out of that garage some nights. Getting in is worse, I literally have to check their schedule to see if I need extra gas to make it home from work travelling .01 mph for an hour


We've been parking at Excalibur for games and traffic actually seems to move reasonably well. I just hate paying to park!
 
2018-02-22 09:33:45 PM  

martissimo: Mikey1969: martissimo: Mikey1969: Polartank13: Mikey1969: Yeah, but they still have to live in Las Vegas.

Dude, you live in SLC, seriously STFU

Why? Vegas in in a wasteland of blasted desert. Hell, Phoenix has more actual reason for existing in the desert than Las Vegas. Here, I have mountains, streams and rivers that not only are naturally occurring, but have water in them, skiing, camping, wildlife, and even rain and snow. Vegas is just hot, dirty, and shiatty.

Dude, I live 6 miles from Lake Mead, maybe 20 to the Colorado River south of the dam which is peppered with great hot springs and kayaking, half hour to Red Rock for fun climbing and hiking, 40 minutes to Lee Canyon for skiing.

You don't know what your'e talking about

So you have like 7 total options? I have something like 17 ski resorts within an hours' drive. But I'm anxiously awaiting the Winter Olympics in "Lee Canyon". I'm sure those 11 runs are just dandy.

Yeah that's true, but it's close. Brian Head ain't too far though. Vegas ain't that bad, it's a lot more than just "The Strip" and those hotels (which pay my bills at a much higher rate than carpenters get in Utah, like twice as much).

Also Red Rock really is magnificent, there are climbs there that rival Yosemite on the difficulty scale that are gorgeous


Thank you. There is life beyond the neon, and I farking love this city.

/Vegasstrong
 
2018-02-22 09:33:50 PM  

Mikey1969: Polartank13: Mikey1969: Yeah, but they still have to live in Las Vegas.

Dude, you live in SLC, seriously STFU

Why? Vegas in in a wasteland of blasted desert. Hell, Phoenix has more actual reason for existing in the desert than Las Vegas. Here, I have mountains, streams and rivers that not only are naturally occurring, but have water in them, skiing, camping, wildlife, and even rain and snow. Vegas is just hot, dirty, and shiatty.


Yeah, but it's not *that* far up to the art and culture scene in Pahrump.

img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2018-02-22 09:35:17 PM  

Mole Man: martissimo: skeeterjennings:  Serious question as I don't know your town:  How do you think the Raider's arrival will impact the Knights attendance?  Can Vegas support two teams?

A LOT of Raiders fans in this town, but who knows, schedules are fairly separate, the number of Knights stickers I see on cars is growing really really fast

There must be a couple of these still floating around.

[img.fark.net image 235x265]


Hoser.
 
2018-02-22 09:45:56 PM  

IlGreven: If the Knights make the Stanley Cup final, let alone win it, just how much are Vegas bookmakers going to lose to those who made preseason bets on them to make it (back when it was sensible to put them at hundreds-to-one odds)?


Millions.
 
2018-02-22 09:47:25 PM  

jayfurr: Mikey1969: Polartank13: Mikey1969: Yeah, but they still have to live in Las Vegas.

Dude, you live in SLC, seriously STFU

Why? Vegas in in a wasteland of blasted desert. Hell, Phoenix has more actual reason for existing in the desert than Las Vegas. Here, I have mountains, streams and rivers that not only are naturally occurring, but have water in them, skiing, camping, wildlife, and even rain and snow. Vegas is just hot, dirty, and shiatty.

Yeah, but it's not *that* far up to the art and culture scene in Pahrump.

[img.fark.net image 425x528]


But you can get the best rump in Pahrump!
 
2018-02-23 01:59:19 AM  

Rev.K: FTA:

Constructed as a Frankenstein's monster of unwanted parts from the rest of the league

Yes, I'm sure the Pittsburgh Penguins had no use whatsoever for three-time Stanley Cup champion and #1 overall pick in 2003, Marc Andre Fleury.

That sentence glosses over the single biggest reason for Vegas' success; they are the first expansion team of the salary cap era, which dramatically changed the landscape for how the expansion draft was constructed.

Previous expansion drafts absolutely were unwanted spare parts thrown to the new franchise in the hope they could somehow gel and become competitive. With a few bright spots, the result was usually pretty disastrous. The reason previous expansion teams were so bad is because teams had no salary cap to consider and could simply expose the worst of their players with little to fear.

With the salary cap and the number of players teams were allowed to protect, the Vegas expansion, by design, was going to cause pain for a lot of teams.

Now having said that, the Golden Knights have clearly gelled as a team and are playing terrific hockey, so hats off to them, they deserve accolades.

I'm just saying this expansion compared to past expansions isn't really apples to apples.


The Rev speaks the truth.

/sad Red Wings fan whose team can't seem to figure out the salary cap era
//LGRW
///slashies just because
 
2018-02-23 08:10:37 AM  

Shrink: /sad Red Wings fan whose team can't seem to figure out the salary cap era
//LGRW
///slashies just because


The Wings had it figured out. They won in '08, got to Game 7 of the Finals in '09, and were still respectable until Nick Lidstrom retired. Then they started to get bogged down by stupid, insanely longterm contracts given to players who weren't living up to them (or, in the case of Franzen, not even play for years and years while still getting paid).
 
2018-02-23 10:06:34 AM  

jayfurr: Mikey1969: Polartank13: Mikey1969: Yeah, but they still have to live in Las Vegas.

Dude, you live in SLC, seriously STFU

Why? Vegas in in a wasteland of blasted desert. Hell, Phoenix has more actual reason for existing in the desert than Las Vegas. Here, I have mountains, streams and rivers that not only are naturally occurring, but have water in them, skiing, camping, wildlife, and even rain and snow. Vegas is just hot, dirty, and shiatty.

Yeah, but it's not *that* far up to the art and culture scene in Pahrump.

[img.fark.net image 425x528]


And you might even tun into Heidi Fleiss in Pahrump... Scary brothels and celebrity spotting in the same trip.

photos.lasvegassun.comView Full Size
 
2018-02-23 12:08:39 PM  

This text is now purple: dustygrimp: This text is now purple: Umm, what now?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clevelan​d_Browns#Founding_and_success_in_the_A​AFC_(1944%E2%80%931949)

The Browns won the championship in their first five seasons as a franchise, across the AAFC and the NFL.

They started 73-7-3, prior to losing the 1951 title game.

It's hard to top a .898 win percentage and five titles.

Hardly a fair comparison. The Browns were part of a brand new league playing only other expansion teams. They were incredibly impressive and Brown built his team better than everyone else did, but they didn't join a league with established teams.

They joined the NFL as an expansion team.


No. They joined the NFL as part of a merger. The AAFC was actually a superior product to the NFL by 1950 and the organization had had 4 years to mature before starting play in the NFL. The Browns are more analogous to the Denver Nuggets winning 50 games in their first NBA Season ('76-'77). Don't get me wrong, that was a great dynasty, but to call them an expansion team in the same way that VGK is an expansion team is just disingenuous.
 
2018-02-23 10:02:53 PM  

Shrink: The Rev speaks the truth.


Goddamit. No, he does not. The Pens were desperate to be rid of Fleury. They lucked out with the expansion draft. Everything he said following is just conjecture that feels good but may or may not last.
 
2018-02-24 12:19:22 AM  

swahnhennessy: Rev.K: Yes, I'm sure the Pittsburgh Penguins had no use whatsoever for three-time Stanley Cup champion and #1 overall pick in 2003, Marc Andre Fleury.

They really didn't. They were hoping to move him once they knew what they had in Murray, but there weren't a lot of takers for his contract. Vegas was a great way to get rid of him. Win/win.


Yeah, and Florida's purge of everyone related to the previous regime made one of the best coaches in the NHL and a friggin' 30 goal scorer in Marchessault available when they shouldn't have been. Even with the new expansion rules and cap, Vegas had some good voodoo going. I'd be shocked if Seattle gets anywhere near as lucky.
 
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