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(The Drive)   USAF & USMC: let's send these not ready for prime time F-35s into harm's way. Vladimir Putin: I see your F-35s, and raise you a pair of PAK FAs/T-50s/Su-57 or whatever flavor they are this month   ( thedrive.com) divider line
    More: Stupid, Fighter aircraft, F-22 Raptor, Close air support, Syria, A-10 Thunderbolt II, Vladimir Putin, Russian Air Force, ground attack aircraft  
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8755 clicks; posted to Main » on 22 Feb 2018 at 3:25 AM (20 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2018-02-21 10:08:05 PM  
They run on coal, right?
 
2018-02-21 10:43:03 PM  
Our lawn dart is better than your lawn dart
 
2018-02-21 11:00:18 PM  
No 35s, proven F22s ready to splash a few SU57s. I hope the ground crews have a SU57/PAKWTF stencil ready.
 
2018-02-21 11:27:34 PM  

NewportBarGuy: They run on coal, right?


Bottom shelf vodka.
 
2018-02-22 12:11:10 AM  

ecmoRandomNumbers: NewportBarGuy: They run on coal, right?

Bottom shelf vodka.


I was gonna drink that!
 
2018-02-22 12:11:48 AM  
Why do they need stealth fighters against--

it has exploited the country as a proving ground and marketing showcase for new or otherwise untested advanced weapons

Ah, they don't.
 
2018-02-22 12:29:45 AM  
Let me know when then send a AvtoVAZ to the asteroid belt.
 
2018-02-22 12:38:53 AM  
We should send some JetBlue planes and a Sbarro's.
 
2018-02-22 01:35:45 AM  
FTA: "As of January 2018, Russia had received less than a dozen flyable pre-production prototypes and the design has suffered repeated setbacks."

Good lord, if Russia is sending in their PROTOTYPE stealth models into combat, they're truly scraping the bottom of the barrel trying to even up to American airpower in the region. Reeks of desperation.
 
2018-02-22 01:39:48 AM  
Whooo! Su-57s, no one's been this close before!
 
2018-02-22 02:46:08 AM  
Deploying a plane that's hard to detect in a war zone with four (?) other countries potentially flying fighters, what could possibly go wrong??
 
2018-02-22 02:51:46 AM  

Wretschko: FTA: "As of January 2018, Russia had received less than a dozen flyable pre-production prototypes and the design has suffered repeated setbacks."

Good lord, if Russia is sending in their PROTOTYPE stealth models into combat, they're truly scraping the bottom of the barrel trying to even up to American airpower in the region. Reeks of desperation.


At some point NATO is going to realize they can just walk into Russia. It's basically a cardboard castle surrounding a bunch of fat hackers riling up western dipshiats.
 
2018-02-22 03:29:22 AM  

fusillade762: ecmoRandomNumbers: NewportBarGuy: They run on coal, right?

Bottom shelf vodka.

I was gonna drink that!


As someone who drank 100 proof Monarch vodka by the gallon jug for year, I'm getting a kick!
 
2018-02-22 03:31:23 AM  

BigNumber12: Whooo! Su-57s, no one's been this close before!


img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2018-02-22 03:33:10 AM  

Scorpitron is reduced to a thin red paste: Wretschko: FTA: "As of January 2018, Russia had received less than a dozen flyable pre-production prototypes and the design has suffered repeated setbacks."

Good lord, if Russia is sending in their PROTOTYPE stealth models into combat, they're truly scraping the bottom of the barrel trying to even up to American airpower in the region. Reeks of desperation.

At some point NATO is going to realize they can just walk into Russia. It's basically a cardboard castle surrounding a bunch of fat hackers riling up western dipshiats.


If only NATO had an army to walk into Russia with. What little they have left in the way of militaries are pretty much fully committed to peacekeeping operations, rebuilding from just having done so, or building up to deploy on said peacekeeping operations. They really don't have much to spare, and it'd bankrupt some of the members to deploy what they do have.
 
2018-02-22 03:37:20 AM  
img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2018-02-22 03:49:20 AM  

Medic Zero: fusillade762: ecmoRandomNumbers: NewportBarGuy: They run on coal, right?

Bottom shelf vodka.

I was gonna drink that!

As someone who drank 100 proof Monarch vodka by the gallon jug for year, I'm getting a kick!


That stuff is like 15 cents more expensive than Fleischmann's, which is what I drink because it's cheaper. I feel like I should support a (relatively) local brand, but I'm a cheap bastard.
 
2018-02-22 03:52:10 AM  

Medic Zero: If only NATO had an army to walk into Russia with. What little they have left in the way of militaries are pretty much fully committed to peacekeeping operations, rebuilding from just having done so, or building up to deploy on said peacekeeping operations. They really don't have much to spare, and it'd bankrupt some of the members to deploy what they do have.


And anyway only one member of NATO is keen on invading other countries, perhaps because it is desperate to find one it can beat.
 
2018-02-22 04:27:09 AM  
"He who controls the skies controls the war." - A fat guy who forgot to control the skies.
 
2018-02-22 04:27:51 AM  

orbister: Medic Zero: If only NATO had an army to walk into Russia with. What little they have left in the way of militaries are pretty much fully committed to peacekeeping operations, rebuilding from just having done so, or building up to deploy on said peacekeeping operations. They really don't have much to spare, and it'd bankrupt some of the members to deploy what they do have.

And anyway only one member of NATO is keen on invading other countries, perhaps because it is desperate to find one it can beat.


Turkey?
 
2018-02-22 04:39:58 AM  
I've played that Ace Combat game before...
 
2018-02-22 04:45:38 AM  

Scorpitron is reduced to a thin red paste: Wretschko: FTA: "As of January 2018, Russia had received less than a dozen flyable pre-production prototypes and the design has suffered repeated setbacks."

Good lord, if Russia is sending in their PROTOTYPE stealth models into combat, they're truly scraping the bottom of the barrel trying to even up to American airpower in the region. Reeks of desperation.

At some point NATO is going to realize they can just walk into Russia. It's basically a cardboard castle surrounding a bunch of fat hackers riling up western dipshiats.


One still armed with nuclear weapons.

Whose command and control systems the US rewired for them in the '90s to help "secure" them.

I'm guessing though that they have since found and removed all the backdoors we must have installed.
 
2018-02-22 04:55:52 AM  

Scorpitron is reduced to a thin red paste: Wretschko: FTA: "As of January 2018, Russia had received less than a dozen flyable pre-production prototypes and the design has suffered repeated setbacks."

Good lord, if Russia is sending in their PROTOTYPE stealth models into combat, they're truly scraping the bottom of the barrel trying to even up to American airpower in the region. Reeks of desperation.

At some point NATO is going to realize they can just walk into Russia. It's basically a cardboard castle surrounding a bunch of fat hackers riling up western dipshiats.


No Western country would want their problems. Russia has multiple VERY serious crisis going.
Chief among them is a real demographic issue.Their birth rate is low, they have a lot of sick old
people and their industries require large amounts of labor. They can't have both a large labor
force for heavy industry  and a military force that's in fighting shape. Their military is a fiasco
of epic nature. They run a VERY antiquated performance based system where whole structures of
officers can basically be fired for the performance of individual units. They use mostly conscripts
that serve for short stints or not at all if their wealthy. So they have a wonderful societal gap,
just like the good old days of 1917 where the ruling class of wealthy officers has a poorly trained
and equipped peasant army. The people that do have aren't healthy, they smoke and drink too much,
and there is a big IV drug problem and all the disease that goes with it.  Not even counting
the problem of pollution, TB, terrible health care, gangster-ism, poor education and the ever popular,
"Hold my vodak and watch this.". I would bet that a lot of their military is literally a Potemkin force.
I'm no CIA analyst, and am not at a Holiday Inn Express..That's just based on what I've read.
 
2018-02-22 04:57:37 AM  

BalugaJoe: We should send [...] a Sbarro's.


I believe that's against the Geneva Convention, it's a war crime.
 
2018-02-22 04:59:59 AM  

Mr. Shabooboo: Scorpitron is reduced to a thin red paste: Wretschko: FTA: "As of January 2018, Russia had received less than a dozen flyable pre-production prototypes and the design has suffered repeated setbacks."

Good lord, if Russia is sending in their PROTOTYPE stealth models into combat, they're truly scraping the bottom of the barrel trying to even up to American airpower in the region. Reeks of desperation.

At some point NATO is going to realize they can just walk into Russia. It's basically a cardboard castle surrounding a bunch of fat hackers riling up western dipshiats.

No Western country would want their problems. Russia has multiple VERY serious crisis going.
Chief among them is a real demographic issue.Their birth rate is low, they have a lot of sick old
people and their industries require large amounts of labor. They can't have both a large labor
force for heavy industry  and a military force that's in fighting shape. Their military is a fiasco
of epic nature. They run a VERY antiquated performance based system where whole structures of
officers can basically be fired for the performance of individual units. They use mostly conscripts
that serve for short stints or not at all if their wealthy. So they have a wonderful societal gap,
just like the good old days of 1917 where the ruling class of wealthy officers has a poorly trained
and equipped peasant army. The people that do have aren't healthy, they smoke and drink too much,
and there is a big IV drug problem and all the disease that goes with it.  Not even counting
the problem of pollution, TB, terrible health care, gangster-ism, poor education and the ever popular,
"Hold my vodak and watch this.". I would bet that a lot of their military is literally a Potemkin force.
I'm no CIA analyst, and am not at a Holiday Inn Express..That's just based on what I've read.


I would stay at a Holiday Inn Express to fact check you but with there being several high level vacancies in the government its best that I avoid that place for now.
 
2018-02-22 05:41:25 AM  
Playing International Keeping Up With The Joneses.
 
2018-02-22 05:50:42 AM  
 Maybe Trump will pay for a Falcon Heavy to do a flyby.
 
2018-02-22 05:52:24 AM  

glutto: Playing International Keeping Up With The Joneses.


Let's build a lot of crap that could blow up a lot of crap that we'll never use because we are the keepers of peace goddammit.  LOL
 
2018-02-22 06:07:20 AM  
media.giphy.comView Full Size

Oiled up and ready
 
2018-02-22 06:14:22 AM  

Wretschko: FTA: "As of January 2018, Russia had received less than a dozen flyable pre-production prototypes and the design has suffered repeated setbacks."

Good lord, if Russia is sending in their PROTOTYPE stealth models into combat, they're truly scraping the bottom of the barrel trying to even up to American airpower in the region. Reeks of desperation.


I thought sending prototype fighters into battle was the sort of thing left to movies, video games, and pulp sci-fi novels.
 
2018-02-22 06:27:38 AM  

fusillade762: Why do they need stealth fighters against--

it has exploited the country as a proving ground and marketing showcase for new or otherwise untested advanced weapons

Ah, they don't.


Maybe they will just paint the F-22s as F-35s?  Of course the US president put a stop to that.  The paint would ruin the invisibility of the F-35.
 
2018-02-22 06:29:55 AM  
img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2018-02-22 06:43:10 AM  

Silverstaff: Wretschko: FTA: "As of January 2018, Russia had received less than a dozen flyable pre-production prototypes and the design has suffered repeated setbacks."

Good lord, if Russia is sending in their PROTOTYPE stealth models into combat, they're truly scraping the bottom of the barrel trying to even up to American airpower in the region. Reeks of desperation.

I thought sending prototype fighters into battle was the sort of thing left to movies, video games, and pulp sci-fi novels.


Civil wars in other countries are a great place to try out new tech. During the Spanish Civil War, the future WWII belligerents covertly and openly tried out new tech, particularly Italy, Germany and the Soviets. In Vietnam, the Soviets used Hanoi as a primary testing site for prototype air defence technology. It's like playing a video game in Sandbox Mode to try out new tactics.
 
2018-02-22 06:47:47 AM  

dukeblue219: orbister: Medic Zero: If only NATO had an army to walk into Russia with. What little they have left in the way of militaries are pretty much fully committed to peacekeeping operations, rebuilding from just having done so, or building up to deploy on said peacekeeping operations. They really don't have much to spare, and it'd bankrupt some of the members to deploy what they do have.

And anyway only one member of NATO is keen on invading other countries, perhaps because it is desperate to find one it can beat.

Turkey?


It's been a while since Turkey invaded anyone.
 
2018-02-22 07:09:38 AM  

Flab: dukeblue219: orbister: Medic Zero: If only NATO had an army to walk into Russia with. What little they have left in the way of militaries are pretty much fully committed to peacekeeping operations, rebuilding from just having done so, or building up to deploy on said peacekeeping operations. They really don't have much to spare, and it'd bankrupt some of the members to deploy what they do have.

And anyway only one member of NATO is keen on invading other countries, perhaps because it is desperate to find one it can beat.

Turkey?

It's been a while since Turkey invaded anyone.


How dare you keep the Turkey away the Turkey fanciers.
 
2018-02-22 07:11:50 AM  

Wretschko: FTA: "As of January 2018, Russia had received less than a dozen flyable pre-production prototypes and the design has suffered repeated setbacks."

Good lord, if Russia is sending in their PROTOTYPE stealth models into combat, they're truly scraping the bottom of the barrel trying to even up to American airpower in the region. Reeks of desperation.


Unlike the American stealth fighters which have never suffered a setback.
 
2018-02-22 07:14:05 AM  

Mr. Shabooboo: Scorpitron is reduced to a thin red paste: Wretschko: FTA: "As of January 2018, Russia had received less than a dozen flyable pre-production prototypes and the design has suffered repeated setbacks."

Good lord, if Russia is sending in their PROTOTYPE stealth models into combat, they're truly scraping the bottom of the barrel trying to even up to American airpower in the region. Reeks of desperation.

At some point NATO is going to realize they can just walk into Russia. It's basically a cardboard castle surrounding a bunch of fat hackers riling up western dipshiats.

No Western country would want their problems. Russia has multiple VERY serious crisis going.
Chief among them is a real demographic issue.Their birth rate is low, they have a lot of sick old
people and their industries require large amounts of labor. They can't have both a large labor
force for heavy industry  and a military force that's in fighting shape. Their military is a fiasco
of epic nature. They run a VERY antiquated performance based system where whole structures of
officers can basically be fired for the performance of individual units. They use mostly conscripts
that serve for short stints or not at all if their wealthy. So they have a wonderful societal gap,
just like the good old days of 1917 where the ruling class of wealthy officers has a poorly trained
and equipped peasant army. The people that do have aren't healthy, they smoke and drink too much,
and there is a big IV drug problem and all the disease that goes with it.  Not even counting
the problem of pollution, TB, terrible health care, gangster-ism, poor education and the ever popular,
"Hold my vodak and watch this.". I would bet that a lot of their military is literally a Potemkin force.
I'm no CIA analyst, and am not at a Holiday Inn Express..That's just based on what I've read.


You're not off the mark:

https://www.rand.org/pubs/issue_paper​s​/IP162/index2.html
 
2018-02-22 07:20:56 AM  
I hope people realize the reason the f-35 has received so much criticism is for two reasons. One, it took so long to finish that inflation and replaced contractors caused a huge budget overrun. Two, America flies its new planes...A LOT...and we scrutinize it in every detail until it's perfect.

No one else tests their planes like we do. I'd take a pre-production f-35 over a hastly built "stealth" mig any day of the week.
 
2018-02-22 07:25:49 AM  
Turkey?

It's been a while since Turkey invaded anyone.


They suffer from "Little Miss Muffit" Syndrome - Kurds in their Way
 
2018-02-22 07:26:21 AM  
Whenever you feel like the US is farking up the F-35 program, sit back, take a deep breath, and look long and hard at the shiatshow that is the PAKFA.

I don't think any country is going to be able to economically field a 5th generation fighter until somewhere midway through the 7th generation.
 
2018-02-22 07:35:14 AM  

tuxq: I hope people realize the reason the f-35 has received so much criticism is for two reasons. One, it took so long to finish that inflation and replaced contractors caused a huge budget overrun. Two, America flies its new planes...A LOT...and we scrutinize it in every detail until it's perfect.

No one else tests their planes like we do. I'd take a pre-production f-35 over a hastly built "stealth" mig any day of the week.


The price per aircraft also went up greatly when the total numbers of aircraft ordered dropped dramatically.
 
2018-02-22 07:36:01 AM  

Flab: dukeblue219: orbister: Medic Zero: If only NATO had an army to walk into Russia with. What little they have left in the way of militaries are pretty much fully committed to peacekeeping operations, rebuilding from just having done so, or building up to deploy on said peacekeeping operations. They really don't have much to spare, and it'd bankrupt some of the members to deploy what they do have.

And anyway only one member of NATO is keen on invading other countries, perhaps because it is desperate to find one it can beat.

Turkey?

It's been a while since Turkey invaded anyone.


And that's no one's business but the Turks.
 
2018-02-22 07:36:59 AM  

Flab: dukeblue219: orbister: Medic Zero: If only NATO had an army to walk into Russia with. What little they have left in the way of militaries are pretty much fully committed to peacekeeping operations, rebuilding from just having done so, or building up to deploy on said peacekeeping operations. They really don't have much to spare, and it'd bankrupt some of the members to deploy what they do have.

And anyway only one member of NATO is keen on invading other countries, perhaps because it is desperate to find one it can beat.

Turkey?

It's been a while since Turkey invaded anyone.


About that...
 
2018-02-22 07:39:52 AM  
If an F-35 gets shot down, they'll have to make more F-35s and develop upgrades.  If a Russian stealth fighter gets splashed by an F-35, they'll sell more F-35s and have to make more F-35s.

Ferengi Rule of Acquisition:  War is good for business
 
2018-02-22 08:07:11 AM  
Didn't Israel already use some in combat, albeit quietly?
 
2018-02-22 08:17:55 AM  

Scorpitron is reduced to a thin red paste: At some point NATO is going to realize they can just walk into Russia.


Just like we've been walking into Afghanistan for 15 years. A cakewalk!
 
2018-02-22 08:24:10 AM  

Scorpitron is reduced to a thin red paste: Wretschko: FTA: "As of January 2018, Russia had received less than a dozen flyable pre-production prototypes and the design has suffered repeated setbacks."

Good lord, if Russia is sending in their PROTOTYPE stealth models into combat, they're truly scraping the bottom of the barrel trying to even up to American airpower in the region. Reeks of desperation.

At some point NATO is going to realize they can just walk into Russia. It's basically a cardboard castle surrounding a bunch of fat hackers riling up western dipshiats.


To quote a guy with a mustache in the 40's "kick the door in and the whole rotten structure will come crashing down"
 
2018-02-22 08:24:21 AM  

Medic Zero: The price per aircraft also went up greatly when the total numbers of aircraft ordered dropped dramatically.


"We could save a lot of money if we made the F-35 a $2 trillion project instead of a mere $1T."
 
2018-02-22 08:26:49 AM  

Cry Hentai And Release The Tentacles of War!: Whenever you feel like the US is farking up the F-35 program, sit back, take a deep breath, and look long and hard at the shiatshow that is the PAKFA.

I don't think any country is going to be able to economically field a 5th generation fighter until somewhere midway through the 7th generation.


I think the reality is in the event of another major war between major powers, none of these current fighters will be around 2 years into the conflict, so you're better off fielding a whole bunch of stuff you can replace and otherwise investing in prototypes and boondoggles like the F-35 so that when it does come time to upgrade the fleet you've got experience in forward design.
 
2018-02-22 08:50:04 AM  

jaytkay: Scorpitron is reduced to a thin red paste: At some point NATO is going to realize they can just walk into Russia.

Just like we've been walking into Afghanistan for 15 years. A cakewalk!


It's always worked out well in the past for Russia's invaders...and no one could've predicted that Afghanistan would be a quagmire either.

One wonders just how many land wars in Asia we are going to end up with.
 
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