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(Buzzfeed)   20 women claim leaders within the Mormon church told them to stay with their abusers. Hero tag is for the women coming forward   ( buzzfeed.com) divider line
    More: Hero, Domestic violence, BuzzFeed News, Abuse, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, Child abuse, Psychological abuse, LDS church, local church leaders  
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3237 clicks; posted to Main » on 13 Feb 2018 at 7:38 PM (21 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



45 Comments     (+0 »)
 
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2018-02-13 04:50:24 PM  
"As a prosecutor I have seen bishops many times come in and speak on behalf on defendants," she said. "I have never seen one talk in support of victims. Never in 26 years."
 
2018-02-13 04:59:57 PM  
"Obvious" tag needed a break, huh?
 
2018-02-13 05:44:26 PM  

mama2tnt: "Obvious" tag needed a break, huh?


Obvious tag is still chained in Rob Porter's basement.
 
2018-02-13 06:35:29 PM  
Sounds like a big deal, until you realize it's just one husband.

/Good on them
//Nail those f*ckers to a wall
 
2018-02-13 07:38:37 PM  
Oh the stuff my family and the church have done in the name of following Gods teachings. Active spouse beating your wife and kids? All good. Inactive spouse taking pain pills after back surgery for a few months? Nope that one had to go.

I can't be around it.
 
2018-02-13 07:41:43 PM  
Only 20?
 
2018-02-13 07:43:09 PM  

MaudlinMutantMollusk: Only 20?


20 today. Let's check back next week.
 
2018-02-13 07:44:06 PM  
Just because Mormons tend to be less egregious, backwards assholes than Evangelicals doesn't mean they aren't still backwards assholes.
 
2018-02-13 07:44:44 PM  

hobnail: "As a prosecutor I have seen bishops many times come in and speak on behalf on defendants," she said. "I have never seen one talk in support of victims. Never in 26 years."


Saddened but not surprised.

/Former Mormer
//If that's regarded as clever in some way, then I just made it up and it's TM Lochsteppe Enterprises LLC.
///Else goto meh.
 
2018-02-13 07:46:00 PM  
this is messed up, but what I *really* want to know is why the mods deleted the figure skating thread
 
2018-02-13 07:46:28 PM  
It's not the followers of the church,  it is the church! Or something stupid like that.
 
2018-02-13 07:47:10 PM  

PhilCollinsBeatBox: this is messed up, but what I *really* want to know is why the mods deleted the figure skating thread


 The Rosie thread too
 
2018-02-13 07:50:47 PM  
I'm not sure I understand why anyone would be surprised by this.

Marriage (according to many religions) is supposed to be a life-long commitment.  Beyond that, most religions are all about forgiveness and redemption.  Of course they'd believe/preach/encourage people to stay together, following the teachings of $savior and stop abusing people.  Divorce doesn't make sense to them.  Why would it?  The abuser is a fundamentally good person, created in the image of God.  They just need to do better.
 
2018-02-13 07:51:20 PM  
"it is difficult to speak to specific circumstances without complete information from all involved, but the position of the Church is clear: There is zero tolerance for abuse of any kind."

Which is why none of the abusers were excommunicated? That sounds more like non-zero tolerance, or just... tolerance.
 
2018-02-13 07:55:15 PM  
It can't be just Mormons. Most fundamentalist or orthodox religions are very patriarchal. Women are treated like cattle and baby machines. That's it. Whether it be Catholics, orthodox Christians, Hasidic Jews, or devout Muslims, etc. this is a common thread among them all. And it is sickening.
 
2018-02-13 07:56:45 PM  
img.fark.netView Full Size

"Abuse of women and children is
common in insular conservative
communities"
 
2018-02-13 07:57:37 PM  

PhilCollinsBeatBox: this is messed up, but what I *really* want to know is why the mods deleted the figure skating thread
---


There was a Mormon figure skating thread?
 
2018-02-13 07:58:50 PM  
I keep saying it, religion should be outlawed.  We'd have a much more peaceful society.  These scumbags wouldn't have anything to hide behind.
 
2018-02-13 08:01:30 PM  
Young gay Mormon men are forbidden from romantically loving each other for the rest of their lives, but a hetero Mormon man gets a pass on repeatedly beating his wife??

That's a fine religion you concocted there, Mr. Smith.

(Yeah, I know, other fundies are that way, too, as previous poster pointed out.)
 
2018-02-13 08:06:25 PM  

Fark_Guy_Rob: I'm not sure I understand why anyone would be surprised by this.

Marriage (according to many religions) is supposed to be a life-long commitment.  Beyond that, most religions are all about forgiveness and redemption.  Of course they'd believe/preach/encourage people to stay together, following the teachings of $savior and stop abusing people.  Divorce doesn't make sense to them.  Why would it?  The abuser is a fundamentally good person, created in the image of God.  They just need to do better.


So how did Porter managed to get divorced twice?
 
2018-02-13 08:07:17 PM  
Fark needs an Asshole tag for religious leaders and organizations that encourage, permit, turn a blind eye to, or in any other way facilitate or condone mental, sexual, or physical abuse.

Also, religious organizations caught doing this type of stuff should be stripped of their tax-free status.
 
2018-02-13 08:21:26 PM  
I'll assume this
encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.comView Full Size

also comes in this
img0.etsystatic.comView Full Size
 
2018-02-13 08:22:41 PM  

Tyrosine: Fark needs an Asshole tag for religious leaders and organizations that encourage, permit, turn a blind eye to, or in any other way facilitate or condone mental, sexual, or physical abuse.

Also, religious organizations caught doing this type of stuff should be stripped of their tax-free status.


They do this stuff specifically to protect their tax free status.  Churches get a tax free status, because they are believed to be a force for good.  The reality is that they are powerless to stop abuse, of any kind, or any other problem.  They deal with this by not trying to fix the problems, but by trying to cover up the problems so that it at least looks like they are a force of good, and therefore earning their keep.
 
2018-02-13 08:27:16 PM  
The Mormons like to handle things "in the church". There's an abuse scandal waiting to happen that'll make the Catholics look good in comparison.
 
2018-02-13 08:35:55 PM  

wellreadneck: I'll assume this
[encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com image 170x296]
also comes in this
[img0.etsystatic.com image 340x270]


Funny, I often bring up the lack of wife beater style underwear tops as an example of how out of it the church is.  There is no reason not to have the magic underwear in a tank top style, but they will simply not do it, because of fears it will lead to "immodesty".  One of the points about garments is that it forces members to dress a certain way, that the elderly people thinks looks more dignified.  The reality is that you are the idiot who always has the sleeves of his undershirt poking out from beneath his polo at work, and it looks tacky as hell.
 
2018-02-13 08:51:00 PM  

winedrinkingman: wellreadneck: I'll assume this
[encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com image 170x296]
also comes in this
[img0.etsystatic.com image 340x270]

Funny, I often bring up the lack of wife beater style underwear tops as an example of how out of it the church is.  There is no reason not to have the magic underwear in a tank top style, but they will simply not do it, because of fears it will lead to "immodesty".  One of the points about garments is that it forces members to dress a certain way, that the elderly people thinks looks more dignified.  The reality is that you are the idiot who always has the sleeves of his undershirt poking out from beneath his polo at work, and it looks tacky as hell.


That low neckline is bound to show a lot of chest hair.
I guess the old folks consider armpits really immodest.
 
2018-02-13 09:08:15 PM  
I did an internship at a religious community service organization (it was the only one that would take me) and I was apalled by their stance on DV.  It was written in policy - that is still in use - that staff and volunteers were supposed to encourage victims to return home so the couple could work out their conflicting communication habits.  After all, it's just punishing the victim to remove them from their family.  The very next paragraph described the elderly poor as feeble and immobile, so that's just how they rolled.  No, I never, ever encouraged anyone to return to a DV situation.  Nor did I pray with clients I was talking to on the phone, that was creepy as hell.  I got that credit though.

Ooooh and then there was the conflicting message that women who accepted help from the agency, fled from the violent partner and went back and got hurt again should've learned their lesson.
 
2018-02-13 09:16:27 PM  
A 34-year-old Colorado woman, who asked to remain anonymous, said that while attending an LDS church-run university in the early 2000s a man she was dating physically assaulted her. When she went to her bishop about the incident, the woman said she was told she "forced him to act in this way" and "needed to repent."

"He said that it was a very serious situation, that I needed to repent, and told me I had to meet with him weekly to discuss what had happened," the woman said. "At the time, his response was more damaging to me than what the guy had done."


She had to meet with him weekly to discuss how she was beaten?

That sounds less like counseling or ministering and more like the bishop needed a weekly top-up on his spank bank.
 
2018-02-13 09:19:35 PM  
In response to questions about domestic violence, LDS church spokesman Eric Hawkins told BuzzFeed News by email that "it is difficult to speak to specific circumstances without complete information from all involved, but the position of the Church is clear: There is zero tolerance for abuse of any kind."

"Church leaders are given instruction on how to prevent and report abuse and how to care for those who have been abused," Hawkins added.

...

  "As a prosecutor I have seen bishops many times come in and speak on behalf on defendants," she said. "I have never seen one talk in support of victims. Never in 26 years."

Well, Mr. Hawkins.  I don't know what kind of instructions you're giving out to your church leaders, but I cannot fault you for how well, how completely, and how uniformly they're following those instruction.

Just kidding, we all know what you're telling them to do.
 
2018-02-13 09:23:59 PM  
Obvious tag busy beating his old lady.
 
2018-02-13 09:50:09 PM  

wellreadneck: winedrinkingman: wellreadneck: I'll assume this
[encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com image 170x296]
also comes in this
[img0.etsystatic.com image 340x270]

Funny, I often bring up the lack of wife beater style underwear tops as an example of how out of it the church is.  There is no reason not to have the magic underwear in a tank top style, but they will simply not do it, because of fears it will lead to "immodesty".  One of the points about garments is that it forces members to dress a certain way, that the elderly people thinks looks more dignified.  The reality is that you are the idiot who always has the sleeves of his undershirt poking out from beneath his polo at work, and it looks tacky as hell.

That low neckline is bound to show a lot of chest hair.
I guess the old folks consider armpits really immodest.


Go on...
 
2018-02-13 10:01:50 PM  

Buttknuckle: wellreadneck: winedrinkingman: wellreadneck: I'll assume this
[encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com image 170x296]
also comes in this
[img0.etsystatic.com image 340x270]

Funny, I often bring up the lack of wife beater style underwear tops as an example of how out of it the church is.  There is no reason not to have the magic underwear in a tank top style, but they will simply not do it, because of fears it will lead to "immodesty".  One of the points about garments is that it forces members to dress a certain way, that the elderly people thinks looks more dignified.  The reality is that you are the idiot who always has the sleeves of his undershirt poking out from beneath his polo at work, and it looks tacky as hell.

That low neckline is bound to show a lot of chest hair.
I guess the old folks consider armpits really immodest.

Go on...


My grandparents were Old Regular Baptists.
I saw a whole lot of really hairy legs at their church when I was young.
Their skirts didn't go all the way to the ankle.
 
2018-02-13 10:02:13 PM  
The Carebear Nazis™ treat women like property??

You got to be kidding me right?
 
2018-02-13 10:36:07 PM  
The guilt trip imposed on LDS members for breaking up their "eternal family" is hard to explain to those who've never been fully in the middle of it (was raised 6th generation Mormon). The clergy have 0 formal training and that makes them completely incapable of recognizing that their faith doesn't have all of the answers for issues like DV. "Pray more fervently. Fast. Pray together. Read the Book of Mormon together every day, etc." are not helpful for someone trapped in the viciousness of DV.

Mormons are taught to disdain "professional" clergy for turning God's word into profit (hence why all local clergy are overworked and unpaid), but I've learned that the training that many ministers go through before leading a congregation helps prepare them for volatile situations like DV, among others things.
 
2018-02-13 11:29:16 PM  

hobnail: "As a prosecutor I have seen bishops many times come in and speak on behalf on defendants," she said. "I have never seen one talk in support of victims. Never in 26 years."


I feel an attack of devil's advocacy coming on, but ...

When she says "speaking in support of" what is she referring to? Testifying as a witness? That seems unlikely unless they were right there when the bad shiat was going down. Victim impact statement? Again, unless they were closely related to the victim (or one themselves) it wouldn't be surprising if they never gave one. If she's referring to letters of support after a defendant has been sentenced -- basically, when the defendant asks for character witnesses to write a "Please spare him, my liege" letter asking the judge for a lighter sentence -- asking a minister/priest/rabbi/bishop for one is pretty standard. I'm not sure how a bishop could "speak in support" of a victim in a similar manner, since no matter what the outcome of the trial, the victim isn't the one being sentenced.

Understand that I'm not saying these women didn't go through horrible things and their bishops let them down terribly. What I'm saying is that this prosecutor may be getting a bit disingenuous here (a prosecutor, omitting facts to make things look worse? Unthinkable, I know).
 
2018-02-13 11:53:26 PM  

RenownedCurator: hobnail: "As a prosecutor I have seen bishops many times come in and speak on behalf on defendants," she said. "I have never seen one talk in support of victims. Never in 26 years."

I feel an attack of devil's advocacy coming on, but ...

When she says "speaking in support of" what is she referring to? Testifying as a witness? That seems unlikely unless they were right there when the bad shiat was going down. Victim impact statement? Again, unless they were closely related to the victim (or one themselves) it wouldn't be surprising if they never gave one. If she's referring to letters of support after a defendant has been sentenced -- basically, when the defendant asks for character witnesses to write a "Please spare him, my liege" letter asking the judge for a lighter sentence -- asking a minister/priest/rabbi/bishop for one is pretty standard. I'm not sure how a bishop could "speak in support" of a victim in a similar manner, since no matter what the outcome of the trial, the victim isn't the one being sentenced.

Understand that I'm not saying these women didn't go through horrible things and their bishops let them down terribly. What I'm saying is that this prosecutor may be getting a bit disingenuous here (a prosecutor, omitting facts to make things look worse? Unthinkable, I know).


Character witness?
 
2018-02-14 12:22:31 AM  
Churches balk at recognizing abusive behavior, the flock would start to recognize the actions of their shepherd.

 The result is a shiat load of abuse with church leaders  instructing the abused to remain with their abusers and forgive the behavior.  It ain't just the Mormons either.
 
2018-02-14 01:03:56 AM  

Tyrosine: Fark needs an Asshole tag for religious leaders and organizations that encourage, permit, turn a blind eye to, or in any other way facilitate or condone mental, sexual, or physical abuse.

Also, religious organizations caught doing this type of stuff should be stripped of their tax-free status.


Also, religious organizations caught doing this type of stuff should be stripped of their tax-free status.

^^^ This. ^^^
I'd like to add meddling in politics to the list of reasons to strip their tax free status.
 
2018-02-14 02:02:16 AM  
So that's, like, 1 guy and his 20 wives?  And after the divorce are they still legally his cousins?
 
2018-02-14 07:23:24 AM  
Religious patriarchy demanding complete subservience of women?  You don't say.  Why, I don't know of any other religion that does this.  Except every damned last one of them.

/some exceptions might apply
//can't think of any right now, I'm sure someone will enlighten me
 
2018-02-14 08:49:23 AM  
Too bad not all the women who speak out about abuse get the hero tag on fark,
Ayaan Hirsi Ali would like a word
 
2018-02-14 12:47:46 PM  

serfdood: Religious patriarchy demanding complete subservience of women?  You don't say.  Why, I don't know of any other religion that does this.  Except every damned last one of them.

/some exceptions might apply
//can't think of any right now, I'm sure someone will enlighten me


Wicca?
 
2018-02-14 01:38:19 PM  
Well, well. Mormonism is just lighting up the news lately. Can't say I'm surprised

Since Utah has become kind of a second home, I'm kind of getting a kick...
 
2018-02-14 02:49:10 PM  
"Stay with the abuser"? Ok, ma'am, you're staying with the abuser. What can I get you, before he comes home: a 2x4, a 1 lb sledge, or a cast iron frying pan?
 
2018-02-14 09:26:21 PM  

Tyrosine: Fark needs an Asshole tag for religious leaders and organizations that encourage, permit, turn a blind eye to, or in any other way facilitate or condone mental, sexual, or physical abuse.

Also, religious organizations caught doing this type of stuff should be stripped of their tax-free status.


fixed
 
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