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(Altoona Mirror)   Not content with gerrymandering, PA senator tries the old "limited constitutional convention" ploy. How about just representing the people for a change? Is that too hard?   ( altoonamirror.com) divider line
    More: Asinine, United States Constitution, Constitution, limited constitutional convention, Mount Airy Casino Resort, United States Senate, Pennsylvania, Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, Altoona, Pennsylvania  
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3900 clicks; posted to Politics » on 09 Feb 2018 at 9:20 AM (22 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2018-02-09 07:26:01 AM  
So what do articles 2-5 of the PA constitution say?  It would have been nice of TFA to explain.
 
2018-02-09 07:52:04 AM  
ARTICLE II.  THE LEGISLATURE

ARTICLE III.  LEGISLATION

A.  PROCEDURE
B.  EDUCATION
C.  NATIONAL GUARD
D.  OTHER LEGISLATION SPECIFICALLY AUTHORIZED
E.  RESTRICTIONS ON LEGISLATIVE POWER

ARTICLE IV.  THE EXECUTIVE

ARTICLE V.  THE JUDICIARY

So, basically the articles that setup the three branches of the state government and would give him the opportunity to fundamentally alter the basic tenets of it. Yea, that's not concerning, at all.
 
2018-02-09 07:58:09 AM  
If your ideas suck and your policies do genuine damage to people and society, and you sort-of know it, cheating and gaming the system is the only way to stay in charge.
 
2018-02-09 08:00:56 AM  
From Ballotpedia:

Article II: The Legislature
Article II of the Pennsylvania Constitution is entitled "The Legislature" and consists of 17 sections.

Article III: Legislation
Article III of the Pennsylvania Constitution is entitled "Legislation" and consists of 32 sections.

Article IV: The Executive
Article IV of the Pennsylvania Constitution is entitled "The Executive" and consists of 19 sections.

Article V: The Judiciary
Article V of the Pennsylvania Constitution is entitled "The Judiciary."


So basically... the whole f*cking thing.
 
2018-02-09 08:03:46 AM  
So, PA Farkers (Pennsylvania-based Farkers, not...well, you get the picture), are you going to let them do this?
 
2018-02-09 08:19:06 AM  
Oh yeah, there's no way this will backfire.
 
2018-02-09 08:36:18 AM  
I've noticed that usually when the good guys lose over and over again on something, they eventually take the hint and either go home, go somewhere else, or compromise incrementally--like adults tend to do.  When the bad guys lose over and over again, they seek to either cheat, be mean, or trash the whole thing and start over--like a frustrated child tends to do.
 
2018-02-09 08:51:31 AM  

PainInTheASP: So, PA Farkers (Pennsylvania-based Farkers, not...well, you get the picture), are you going to let them do this?


In Philadelphia, all they care about is the recent Superb Owl victory.

In Pittsburgh, all they care about is a Stanley Cup threepeat and that the unmatched six Superb Owl win record still stands (thanks Philly!).

In Happy Valley, they are either out-of-staters or soon to graduate and be out-of-staters because there are no jobs in PA.

The rest of the state is mostly retarded or Amish.

Where was I going with this?
 
2018-02-09 09:13:01 AM  

Anastacya: ARTICLE II.  THE LEGISLATURE

ARTICLE III.  LEGISLATION

A.  PROCEDURE
B.  EDUCATION
C.  NATIONAL GUARD
D.  OTHER LEGISLATION SPECIFICALLY AUTHORIZED
E.  RESTRICTIONS ON LEGISLATIVE POWER

ARTICLE IV.  THE EXECUTIVE

ARTICLE V.  THE JUDICIARY

So, basically the articles that setup the three branches of the state government and would give him the opportunity to fundamentally alter the basic tenets of it. Yea, that's not concerning, at all.


Okay.

So the first draft looks like this.

Article II - Legislative districts and borders shall be permanently set to the borders at a specific time in history that just happens to give a permanent gerrymander for the Republicans.

Article III - Legislation sponsored or co-sponsored by the speaker of house (or whatever the highest ranking legislator is called) requires a simple majority to pass.  Any other legislation needs a super-majority.

Article IV - The legislative branch has veto approval over any executive decisions and appointments made by the Governor.

Article V - Any legislation passed by a majority of the legislators and signed by the governor is not subject to review by the Supreme Court.

And I think I just threw up a bit.
 
2018-02-09 09:22:17 AM  

Petit_Merdeux: PainInTheASP: So, PA Farkers (Pennsylvania-based Farkers, not...well, you get the picture), are you going to let them do this?

In Philadelphia, all they care about is the recent Superb Owl victory.

In Pittsburgh, all they care about is a Stanley Cup threepeat and that the unmatched six Superb Owl win record still stands (thanks Philly!).

In Happy Valley, they are either out-of-staters or soon to graduate and be out-of-staters because there are no jobs in PA.

The rest of the state is mostly retarded or Amish.

Where was I going with this?


That's very astute rundown of PA
 
2018-02-09 09:26:34 AM  

PainInTheASP: So, PA Farkers (Pennsylvania-based Farkers, not...well, you get the picture), are you going to let them do this?


Most Republicans are either soul-less (the leadership) or stupid (the grass roots).
So, yes, they will get away with it.
 
2018-02-09 09:27:54 AM  
Why are Republicans so god awfully scared of free and fair elections?
 
2018-02-09 09:29:15 AM  
So, what's the angle here? Is the existing government in Pennsylvania perfect and in no need of reform? Or, do we just dislike the idea because a Republican is proposing it?
 
2018-02-09 09:31:31 AM  
Is he going to propose legal weed and codification of additional rights?
Or taking some people's rights away?
 
2018-02-09 09:31:44 AM  

Shaggy_C: So, what's the angle here? Is the existing government in Pennsylvania perfect and in no need of reform? Or, do we just dislike the idea because a Republican is proposing it?


LOL. Okay.
 
2018-02-09 09:31:56 AM  

Shaggy_C: So, what's the angle here? Is the existing government in Pennsylvania perfect and in no need of reform? Or, do we just dislike the idea because a Republican is proposing it?


As always, timing and context are important...shortly after their hideously gerrymandered redistricting got smacked down by the Supreme Court, they just happen to call a constitutional convention for the first time in 50 years.  Yup, nothing suspicious about that.
 
2018-02-09 09:31:57 AM  

The Homer Tax: Why are Republicans so god awfully scared of free and fair elections?


The "Elite", or the rank-and-file?

the rank-and-file: stigginit.

the Elite: because they have nothing else if they lose this job.
 
2018-02-09 09:32:12 AM  

Shaggy_C: So, what's the angle here? Is the existing government in Pennsylvania perfect and in no need of reform? Or, do we just dislike the idea because a Republican is proposing it?


img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2018-02-09 09:32:41 AM  

PainInTheASP: So, PA Farkers (Pennsylvania-based Farkers, not...well, you get the picture), are you going to let them do this?


Well,  this'll be a fun thing to get into at work.  My current project is criminal justice, but this is may indicate a need for me to switch gears.

Wonder if our legislative director is in at our office today...
 
2018-02-09 09:32:47 AM  

PainInTheASP: So, PA Farkers (Pennsylvania-based Farkers, not...well, you get the picture), are you going to let them do this?


Probably.  It's gonna be spun as complex nuts and bolts type stuff that we will only get reportage on after it has been fully negotiated.

Imma try, but dont expect any miracles here.  PA is basically a microcosm of the entire country.  OK at the edges... Weird as fark in the middle.
 
2018-02-09 09:33:37 AM  

The Homer Tax: Why are Republicans so god awfully scared of free and fair elections?


Because demographics are shifting out of their favor, and it terrifies them...the gravy train is running out of track.
 
2018-02-09 09:33:57 AM  
Ah, but subby, the whole point of gerrymandering is NOT to represent the people. The point is to let the politicians chose their constituents, not the other way 'round.
 
2018-02-09 09:35:00 AM  

The Homer Tax: Why are Republicans so god awfully scared of free and fair elections?


According to the actual co-sponsorship memorandum they aren't scared of free elections at all - they're pushing all of this via ballot referendum in the 2019 primary:

The charge of the constitutional convention would be limited to certain articles and subject matter. The convention cannot propose any changes to Article I, Declaration of Rights or any Article or Section not referenced in the legislation. Specifically, the convention may make recommendations with regard to the following:
Sections 3, 4, 8, 16 of Article II which pertain to terms, size or compensation of the General Assembly,
Article III, Sections 13, 22, 24 and Subarticle A relating to amendments of legislation, no-bid contracts, and spending without an enacted budget,
Article IV as it pertains to the office of Lt. Governor may also be a subject of proposed changes, and
Sections 10, 17, and 18 of Article V pertaining to the judiciary.

All recommendations would require a majority vote of the 163 delegates. Proposed changes in the form of ballot questions would be placed on the ballot for approval or rejection by the voters at the 2019 primary.
 
2018-02-09 09:35:07 AM  

Shaggy_C: So, what's the angle here? Is the existing government in Pennsylvania perfect and in no need of reform? Or, do we just dislike the idea because a Republican is proposing it?


So, what's your angle here? Did this discussion of how the PA GOP is shiatting the bed now that the courts have slapped down their gerrymander need sidetracking? Or, do you just like asking questions that sound disingenuous if looked at closely?
 
2018-02-09 09:35:50 AM  
Many, if only there were several dangerous and eagerly violent groups of people in this country who claimed to have a constitutional right to do something about a tyrannical government that sets itself above the wishes of the people and the rule of law. I can't, for the life of me, figure out why groups like that aren't all over this. 🤔
 
2018-02-09 09:36:48 AM  

PainInTheASP: So, PA Farkers (Pennsylvania-based Farkers, not...well, you get the picture), are you going to let them do this?


Not really sure, but no matter what the democrats do, any plan drawn up by the democratic court or the democratic governor ever having the power of law is extremely problematic... I find the the issue of violating the separation of powers and maintaining proper checks and balances more important than dealing with the obvious gerrymandering that has been in existence since 2011.

Neither of my solutions are appealing to the democrats because they do not offer immediate relief.

1.) Pass a constitutional amendment in PA to put the district maps in the hand of a non-partisan group, or have a mathematician come up with an algorithm that will be used every time and attempt to take politics out of the equation.

2.) Have the courts and senate kick back and forth new district maps until the court is okay with them and then see if the Governor will sign them.

From an unaffiliated position, I've always thought the districts were gerrymandered like shiat, but they have been in place for 3 elections now.  It seems to me as if this is an attempt by the democrats to seize power and fix their problem in the courts rather than at the ballot box.  And people in PA are not blind to this fact... if any lines are redrawn prior to the 2020 census, the democrats will pay for it at the ballot box.

Every 10 years, people have a chance to fix this shiat by rising up and putting the shysters that did this out of business no matter how hard it is.  Gerrymandering might make that more difficult, but it never makes it impossible.   The ideal situation for 2020 would be to have a governor of one party and a legislature of the other party without a veto proof majority and have them negotiate the maps.

or.. a non-partisan group draw them up... but thats akin to trying to find unicorns.
 
2018-02-09 09:36:49 AM  
Sigh, the courts are going to redraw the maps at the 11th hour arn't they. They are big fans of going by counties and bisecting them if needed.

Plus side is, going to be allot of Republican losses in the house.
 
2018-02-09 09:37:25 AM  
For those who want to check out the bills being proposed:

Pa. House Bill 1967

Pa. Senate Bill 867
 
2018-02-09 09:37:39 AM  

TwoHead: So, what's your angle here? Did this discussion of how the PA GOP is shiatting the bed now that the courts have slapped down their gerrymander need sidetracking? Or, do you just like asking questions that sound disingenuous if looked at closely?


I don't know anything about Pennsylvania politics other than that you can't buy booze anywhere other than the state-run shoppes. I am just amused that using a constitutional convention and subsequent referendum is seen as anti-democratic. Perhaps people are more concerned that such tactics may be anti-Democratic, amirite?
 
2018-02-09 09:39:21 AM  
Republicans are playing this shamelessly, as they are wont to do.

They act criminally, as a party, knowing that in the US we don't criminalize an entire party, so they can get away with it behind the "that's authoritarianism, liberal fascists!" excuse.

They are evil. And they know. And they don't care because stiggint.
 
2018-02-09 09:39:52 AM  

Shaggy_C: TwoHead: So, what's your angle here? Did this discussion of how the PA GOP is shiatting the bed now that the courts have slapped down their gerrymander need sidetracking? Or, do you just like asking questions that sound disingenuous if looked at closely?

I don't know anything about Pennsylvania politics other than that you can't buy booze anywhere other than the state-run shoppes. I am just amused that using a constitutional convention and subsequent referendum is seen as anti-democratic. Perhaps people are more concerned that such tactics may be anti-Democratic, amirite?


As opposed to what the court is doing being anti-democratic?   We are in a lose lose situation.
 
2018-02-09 09:41:51 AM  

dwrash: From an unaffiliated position, I've always thought the districts were gerrymandered like shiat, but they have been in place for 3 elections now.  It seems to me as if this is an attempt by the democrats to seize power and fix their problem in the courts rather than at the ballot box.  And people in PA are not blind to this fact... if any lines are redrawn prior to the 2020 census, the democrats will pay for it at the ballot box.


media.giphy.comView Full Size
 
2018-02-09 09:44:15 AM  
Yes it is hard. People want things. Lots of different things. Whereas "real" people (corps and lobbyists) just want you to suck them off occasionally. You think they'd have taken the job with a shiat state senator's salary to listen to and work for regular schlubs?
 
2018-02-09 09:44:36 AM  

Shaggy_C: TwoHead: So, what's your angle here? Did this discussion of how the PA GOP is shiatting the bed now that the courts have slapped down their gerrymander need sidetracking? Or, do you just like asking questions that sound disingenuous if looked at closely?

I don't know anything about Pennsylvania politics other than that you can't buy booze anywhere other than the state-run shoppes. I am just amused that using a constitutional convention and subsequent referendum is seen as anti-democratic. Perhaps people are more concerned that such tactics may be anti-Democratic, amirite?


No. You are ignoring the context. The only question is: Are you existing in that state willfully?
 
2018-02-09 09:45:23 AM  

guestguy: dwrash: From an unaffiliated position, I've always thought the districts were gerrymandered like shiat, but they have been in place for 3 elections now.  It seems to me as if this is an attempt by the democrats to seize power and fix their problem in the courts rather than at the ballot box.  And people in PA are not blind to this fact... if any lines are redrawn prior to the 2020 census, the democrats will pay for it at the ballot box.

[media.giphy.com image 320x180]


I'm unaffiliated, and ran as an unaffiliated candidate in my local election.  PA has no 'independent' registration choice.... and i've voted to raise taxes which pissed off the Republicans and voted on a few other things that pissed off the democrats.   I want my municipality to succeed in spite of the political nonsense.
 
2018-02-09 09:45:56 AM  
Link is farked for me. Doesn't just not load, it endlessly loads while on a white screen and never goes anywhere.
 
2018-02-09 09:46:22 AM  
Just a question, are we going to have any threads on Arthur Jones running for congress?  All the ones I see submitted are redlit almost immediately.
 
2018-02-09 09:49:05 AM  
img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2018-02-09 09:52:39 AM  
Not content with gerrymandering, PA senator tries the old " limited constitutional convention" ploy.

Just wait until MA gets home!
 
2018-02-09 09:52:40 AM  

koder: I've noticed that usually when the DEMOCRATS lose over and over again on something, they eventually take the hint and either go home, go somewhere else, or compromise incrementally--like adults tend to do.  When the REPUBLICANS lose over and over again, they seek to either cheat, be mean, or trash the whole thing and start over--like a frustrated child tends to do.


Tweaked for clarity.
 
2018-02-09 09:52:41 AM  

dwrash: From an unaffiliated position, I've always thought the districts were gerrymandered like shiat, but they have been in place for 3 elections now.  It seems to me as if this is an attempt by the democrats to seize power and fix their problem in the courts rather than at the ballot box.


Perhaps you're a little unclear on what the purpose of gerrymandering is.
 
2018-02-09 09:52:56 AM  

dwrash: I'm unaffiliated, and ran as an unaffiliated candidate in my local election.  PA has no 'independent' registration choice.... and i've voted to raise taxes which pissed off the Republicans and voted on a few other things that pissed off the democrats.   I want my municipality to succeed in spite of the political nonsense.


Shut up. You're a bullshiat artist that ruins any thread you post in.

I'm unaffiliated, and ran as an unaffiliated candidate in my local election.  PA has no 'independent' registration choice.... and i've voted to raise taxes which pissed off the Republicans

That's weird, let's check in to see what dwrash thinks of tax increases...

dwrash: Given how we are to be good stewards of the money God helps us make.. and we have the power of the vote in this country..  Christians should never ever ever vote for a tax increase and rely on their communities to be the social safety net... not a secular government. At this point we should be voting for any and every politician that promotes tax cuts... seriously.



Oh, oh my.   Your stance of 'tax cuts because Jesus' seems to be in direct conflict with your unaffiliated wanting to increase taxes.

That's embarrassing.
 
2018-02-09 09:53:32 AM  
This isn't nearly as egregious as the effort to impeach the state supreme court judges that voted against the Republicans.
 
2018-02-09 09:53:39 AM  

tdyak: Just a question, are we going to have any threads on Arthur Jones running for congress?  All the ones I see submitted are redlit almost immediately.


He has no chance of winning. Why give him attention?
 
2018-02-09 09:54:25 AM  

dwrash: guestguy: dwrash: From an unaffiliated position, I've always thought the districts were gerrymandered like shiat, but they have been in place for 3 elections now.  It seems to me as if this is an attempt by the democrats to seize power and fix their problem in the courts rather than at the ballot box.  And people in PA are not blind to this fact... if any lines are redrawn prior to the 2020 census, the democrats will pay for it at the ballot box.

[media.giphy.com image 320x180]

I'm unaffiliated, and ran as an unaffiliated candidate in my local election.  PA has no 'independent' registration choice.... and i've voted to raise taxes which pissed off the Republicans and voted on a few other things that pissed off the democrats.   I want my municipality to succeed in spite of the political nonsense.


Oh, I have no doubt that's how you're registered....I also have no doubt that you consistently side with Republicans on here, and are trying to spin an attempt to correct flagrant gerrymandering as a ploy to seize power by the Democrats.  You admit that the districts are bullshiat, but chastise the opposition party for doing the only thing they have power to do, which is point out to the courts that the districts are indeed bullshiat.
 
d23 [BareFark]
2018-02-09 09:55:00 AM  
AMENDMENT (something):

JUST LET THE CORPORATIONS TAKE OVER ALL THE shiat.

sponsored by the Koch brothers
 
2018-02-09 09:55:00 AM  

GoldSpider: This isn't nearly as egregious as the effort to impeach the state supreme court judges that voted against the Republicans.


Nah, they can stay, we'll just take away their power!  Totes cool!
 
2018-02-09 09:55:16 AM  

Petit_Merdeux: PainInTheASP: So, PA Farkers (Pennsylvania-based Farkers, not...well, you get the picture), are you going to let them do this?

In Philadelphia, all they care about is the recent Superb Owl victory.

In Pittsburgh, all they care about is a Stanley Cup threepeat and that the unmatched six Superb Owl win record still stands (thanks Philly!).

In Happy Valley, they are either out-of-staters or soon to graduate and be out-of-staters because there are no jobs in PA.

The rest of the state is mostly retarded or Amish.

Where was I going with this?


Put a little Wudder Ice on it.
 
2018-02-09 09:55:33 AM  

dwrash: From an unaffiliated position, I've always thought the districts were gerrymandered like shiat, but they have been in place for 3 elections now.  It seems to me as if this is an attempt by the democrats to seize power and fix their problem in the courts rather than at the ballot box.  And people in PA are not blind to this fact... if any lines are redrawn prior to the 2020 census, the democrats will pay for it at the ballot box.

Every 10 years, people have a chance to fix this shiat by rising up and putting the shysters that did this out of business no matter how hard it is.  Gerrymandering might make that more difficult, but it never makes it impossible.   The ideal situation for 2020 would be to have a governor of one party and a legislature of the other party without a veto proof majority and have them negotiate the maps


It's an attempt at having fair elections by drawing districts in a sane way instead of finding ways to artificially maximize one party's representation in a district. It's telling that that's such a threat to republicans.

As to the second paragraph, you are obviously pretending you don't know what gerrymandering is or you wouldn't have written what you did. The only way people could have any kind of effect on election outcomes in such an obviously gerrymandered state is organized, deliberate and coordinated moving., i.e. you sell your house and move to a specific, assigned neighborhood, along with a couple thousand of your closest friends, to change the political makeup of a district. Since that's not even close to realistic, they took it to the supreme court.
 
2018-02-09 09:55:39 AM  

Shaggy_C: So, what's the angle here? Is the existing government in Pennsylvania perfect and in no need of reform? Or, do we just dislike the idea because a Republican is proposing it?


Is there such a thing as a DIS-ingénue?
 
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