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(Fox 4 KC)   Fake homeowners association files real liens on neighborhood homes after fake bills go unpaid. Bonus, 'HOA' is a company being run out of a federal prison cell   ( fox4kc.com) divider line
    More: Asinine, HOA, Problem Solvers, kansas city, Quitclaim deed, Summerfield Homeowners Association, HOA neighborhood, Summerfield neighborhood, Summerfield HOA  
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6205 clicks; posted to Main » on 09 Feb 2018 at 11:50 AM (23 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



Voting Results (Smartest)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

2018-02-09 11:56:34 AM  
22 votes:
Next step is to sue the county for authorizing blatantly illegal liens.
2018-02-09 10:04:33 AM  
20 votes:
"I very nicely said, 'What the heck are you thinking?' said Ford, who then informed Roberts what he was doing was illegal.
"I thought I had properly educated him but apparently not," Ford said.

 
i'll go out on a limb here and guess that he already knew it was illegal
2018-02-09 11:54:22 AM  
16 votes:
FTAMathews has since learned it's easy to file fake documents because the recorder of deeds in each county doesn't have the manpower to check out the legitimacy of each claim.

Sounds like suing the county will cover the cost of paying for the lawyer.
2018-02-09 12:21:14 PM  
15 votes:
this is one of the times when lawsuits are the answer. but dont sue the fake HOA. sue the departments that allowed his bogus paperwork to become 'real'. they will now have to actually vet all those applications they dont have the manpower for. they will find a way to budget that extra manpower after losing a few high dollar lawsuits for dereliction of duty AND no more fake HOAs will sneak by.

but that's too simple and plausible so of course it will never happen. good luck, homeowners!
2018-02-09 10:38:06 AM  
12 votes:

Dead for Tax Reasons: "I very nicely said, 'What the heck are you thinking?' said Ford, who then informed Roberts what he was doing was illegal.
"I thought I had properly educated him but apparently not," Ford said.
 
i'll go out on a limb here and guess that he already knew it was illegal


LOL.  Similarly:

"He told me he had the number for five years," Kaucher said. "He asked me to let the community know it's not him. That's how you know it's a scam."

I imagine most people remembered that they didn't sign an HOA contract when they purchased and didn't need to call the spoofed number to realize it was a scam.
2018-02-09 11:54:35 AM  
11 votes:
Later Lovell's attorney wrote to FOX4 that Lovell thought the neighborhood should have an HOA to pay for the upkeep of the lot containing the neighborhood's drainage basin.

FOX4 Problem Solvers found it surprising that Lovell cared since she lives in Independence -- far from the Summerfield neighborhood.


Ooh, Fox4 snuck in a little snark, I like it.  I like it a lot.
2018-02-09 12:51:53 PM  
10 votes:

jayphat: wisewerds: The Flexecutioner: this is one of the times when lawsuits are the answer. but dont sue the fake HOA. sue the departments that allowed his bogus paperwork to become 'real'. they will now have to actually vet all those applications they dont have the manpower for. they will find a way to budget that extra manpower after losing a few high dollar lawsuits for dereliction of duty AND no more fake HOAs will sneak by.

but that's too simple and plausible so of course it will never happen. good luck, homeowners!

Extraordinarily bad legal advice.

Why? Sounds perfectly reasonable. The county ADMITTED they didn't have the manpower to look at all liens, just rubber stamped them. Ya, that's a lawsuit waiting to happen.


The County recorder has the duty to record all liens presented to him or her that are in proper form.  The County recorder has no duty to evaluate the validity of what appears to be a facially valid lien.  Sue the recorder, and not only will you lose, you will be paying the county's attorneys fees.

When you purchase a piece of property, you buy title insurance.  Title insurance covers claims against the title to your property (unless the claim is specifically disclosed or excepted by the language of your policy).  This kind of claim is covered.

If this happens to you, find your title insurance (it should be in there with all the other papers you were given when you closed on the purchase of your property, and if it isn't, contact the escrow company), advise them that you are making a claim because some fraudster has filed a lien against the title to your property, and insist that they defend you against the claim--i.e., pay for the attorney to do the work necessary to clear the title of the lien.  And if they balk, contact your local real property attorney, who should be happy to help you sue the pants off your title company.  In any reasonably enlightened state--one that provides that if you have to sue your insurer to obtain the benefit of your policy, you are entitled to recover attorney's fees (which is the rule in my state)--that lawsuit should occur entirely at the title company's expense.
2018-02-09 12:07:40 PM  
10 votes:
However, neighbors are worried that there's nothing preventing it from happening again.

Horseshiat. Get the guy convicted, give him an additional 10 years and retract his rights to the internet.
2018-02-09 01:01:24 PM  
8 votes:

SpectroBoy: FTA: Mathews has since learned it's easy to file fake documents because the recorder of deeds in each county doesn't have the manpower to check out the legitimacy of each claim.

Sounds like suing the county will cover the cost of paying for the lawyer.


County didn;t do anything wrong, plus "sovereign immunity".  What needs to happen is that the law needs to change, so that, when filing a lien, the Lien holder must "serve" the property owner with a notice of lien, and there needs to be a simple form the property owner can fill out to dispute the claim and demand a small claims-style hearing before the lien is reocrded.   Most scammer won't dare show at such a hearing and it would de-weaponize liens in the hands of folks like the Sovereign Citizens
2018-02-09 10:55:50 AM  
8 votes:
Is it too soon to talk about HOA control?
2018-02-09 12:01:23 PM  
7 votes:

edmo: Is it too soon to talk about HOA control?


Control? Nuke it from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.
2018-02-09 12:08:28 PM  
6 votes:

Diogenes: Dead for Tax Reasons: "I very nicely said, 'What the heck are you thinking?' said Ford, who then informed Roberts what he was doing was illegal.
"I thought I had properly educated him but apparently not," Ford said.

i'll go out on a limb here and guess that he already knew it was illegal

LOL.  Similarly:

"He told me he had the number for five years," Kaucher said. "He asked me to let the community know it's not him. That's how you know it's a scam."

I imagine most people remembered that they didn't sign an HOA contract when they purchased and didn't need to call the spoofed number to realize it was a scam.


You don't need to sign a contract.  As long as you buy a home in a subdivision that is subject to a properly formed HOA, with a properly recorded HOA agreement, you become part of the HOA, whether you like it or not.

If you are buying real property, look carefully at your title report.
2018-02-09 01:26:34 PM  
5 votes:
FTFA: Mathews has since learned it's easy to file fake documents because the recorder of deeds in each county doesn't have the manpower to check out the legitimacy of each claim.
"They are just stamping it, stamping it and it's filed and done," said Mathews who has sponsored legislation to make filing fake documents a felony. "Hopefully this bill will provide some real teeth for law enforcement to go after the people who are doing this."

Kinda seems like something that should have been against the law already.
2018-02-09 01:16:17 PM  
5 votes:
Amazing the degree to which the legal system depends on simple "trust" that people won't abuse the process.

Perhaps lawyers and courts need to modernize their procedures to incorporate things like encryption-based identity cards, etc.
2018-02-09 12:50:59 PM  
5 votes:
All HOAs are scams....how is this different?
2018-02-09 12:39:09 PM  
5 votes:

wisewerds: The Flexecutioner: this is one of the times when lawsuits are the answer. but dont sue the fake HOA. sue the departments that allowed his bogus paperwork to become 'real'. they will now have to actually vet all those applications they dont have the manpower for. they will find a way to budget that extra manpower after losing a few high dollar lawsuits for dereliction of duty AND no more fake HOAs will sneak by.

but that's too simple and plausible so of course it will never happen. good luck, homeowners!

Extraordinarily bad legal advice.


Why? Sounds perfectly reasonable. The county ADMITTED they didn't have the manpower to look at all liens, just rubber stamped them. Ya, that's a lawsuit waiting to happen.
2018-02-09 12:19:05 PM  
5 votes:

FleshMonkey: Threadjack

Sometimes websites like this seem to hijack my browser and redirect it to some stupid offer.

Is it the website or some malware on my phone?

Any farkers know?


Website.  Download an add-blocker.
2018-02-09 12:16:18 PM  
5 votes:
This probably was not targeted at the individual owners, but instead at investors and banks that do not have an individual presence at properties in the neighborhood.  Most of the time they will just blindly pay the assessments/liens instead of investigate the situation.

It can be a surprisingly lucrative, albeit illegal, scam.
2018-02-09 12:07:51 PM  
5 votes:
Threadjack

Sometimes websites like this seem to hijack my browser and redirect it to some stupid offer.

Is it the website or some malware on my phone?

Any farkers know?
2018-02-09 02:53:29 PM  
4 votes:

jaytkay: Nope. The county doesn't verify liens. Just like the county does not pore over our mortgage to assure the contract is correct and legal.


While I agree that they really shouldn't be expected to "verify" that everything about the lien is correct and legal (that would unfortunately be more of an issue for the courts), it does seem like they could do more to prevent abuse than just blindly rubber-stamping whatever gets filed. There is a lot of room between those things.

For example, they could make people who want to file liens leave identifying information (like copies of their drivers' license, maybe fingerprints, etc) on file, and/or make them register with some sort of database for the privilege of filing them. Persistent abuse of the process could then easily result in them being blacklisted from filing more. Or, it could do things like check whether you are currently in federal prison for mortgage fraud. Data mining could probably prevent most legal abuse of process if enough of the information were linked together in centralized systems.
2018-02-09 01:26:15 PM  
4 votes:

madethistopost: Of course they did something wrong.  When the hell did common sense get tossed out the window?  "The law says we all have to walk off this bridge.  Well the law is the law".  The chain of people that that are so brain dead they let this just go through while collecting nice big paychecks.....no fault there at all?  No one even trying to figure out whats happening because "I don't paid for that". Shiat.


If all they are doing is "rubber stamping" the applications, what is the point of them even having a job? Just fire them and replace them with an algorithm implemented on a website.
2018-02-09 12:14:29 PM  
4 votes:
CSB
About 10 years ago I started getting calls multiple times a day, sometimes ten times or more from the same number. They would occasionally leave a voice mail but it was in Spanish so I have no idea what they were saying.

I finally got sick of it and called the number back and left them kind of a ranty message telling them they had the wrong number and to STOP FARKING CALLING ME!

The next day my phone lit up and wouldn't stop. I was getting calls from strange numbers every few minutes, all day long. The times I answered to see what the hell was going on it would always be a recording saying I was receiving a call from some inmate at some prison. I probably got 200 calls like that over 24 hours.

I assume the wrong number and prison calls were connected and probably some attempt at some sort of scam. I called t-mobile and they changed my number and waived the fee when they saw the barrage of calls and where they were coming from.

In closing, people in prison are bored and will fark with people for lulz, I guess.
/csb
2018-02-09 12:07:17 PM  
4 votes:
Dollars to donuts either this guy's a sovcit or his celly is.
2018-02-09 02:36:56 PM  
3 votes:

SpectroBoy: FTA: Mathews has since learned it's easy to file fake documents because the recorder of deeds in each county doesn't have the manpower to check out the legitimacy of each claim.

Sounds like suing the county will cover the cost of paying for the lawyer.


Nope. The county doesn't verify liens. Just like the county does not pore over our mortgage to assure the contract is correct and legal.
2018-02-09 01:28:13 PM  
3 votes:
Also, it seems like the power of an HOA to file a lien against property should be restricted. Just to remove the incentive to do it when it isn't legal and/or necessary.
2018-02-09 12:43:53 PM  
3 votes:

The Flexecutioner: this is one of the times when lawsuits are the answer. but dont sue the fake HOA. sue the departments that allowed his bogus paperwork to become 'real'. they will now have to actually vet all those applications they dont have the manpower for. they will find a way to budget that extra manpower after losing a few high dollar lawsuits for dereliction of duty AND no more fake HOAs will sneak by.

but that's too simple and plausible so of course it will never happen. good luck, homeowners!


Most clerk of courts and such are given immunity while working in their normal duties. Suing them will just waste your money when the lawsuit is thrown out and you're stuck with legal fees. You'd have to be able to prove negligence, or knowingly being an accessory to fraud. It won't fly.
2018-02-09 12:43:38 PM  
3 votes:

Diogenes: Dead for Tax Reasons: "I very nicely said, 'What the heck are you thinking?' said Ford, who then informed Roberts what he was doing was illegal.
"I thought I had properly educated him but apparently not," Ford said.
 
i'll go out on a limb here and guess that he already knew it was illegal

LOL.  Similarly:

"He told me he had the number for five years," Kaucher said. "He asked me to let the community know it's not him. That's how you know it's a scam."

I imagine most people remembered that they didn't sign an HOA contract when they purchased and didn't need to call the spoofed number to realize it was a scam.


You should still call, because I've known real HOAs that overstep their authority, and attempt to fine and/or harass home owners with properties located next to the HOA land.  If an HOA busybody gets a stick up their arse, they can still manage to cost you thousands of dollars and several court dates even though your property is not part of the HOA.
2018-02-09 07:35:23 PM  
2 votes:

mcmnky: wisewerds: Diogenes: Dead for Tax Reasons: "I very nicely said, 'What the heck are you thinking?' said Ford, who then informed Roberts what he was doing was illegal.
"I thought I had properly educated him but apparently not," Ford said.

i'll go out on a limb here and guess that he already knew it was illegal

LOL.  Similarly:

"He told me he had the number for five years," Kaucher said. "He asked me to let the community know it's not him. That's how you know it's a scam."

I imagine most people remembered that they didn't sign an HOA contract when they purchased and didn't need to call the spoofed number to realize it was a scam.

You don't need to sign a contract.  As long as you buy a home in a subdivision that is subject to a properly formed HOA, with a properly recorded HOA agreement, you become part of the HOA, whether you like it or not.

If you are buying real property, look carefully at your title report.

Horsefeathers. You don't just become a member of an HOA.


You, my friend, don't have the faintest idea what you are talking about.  You buy a house in a subdivision that has a recorded homeowner's agreement, you become a HOA member subject to that agreement subject to the duty to make whatever payments the HOA is entitled to levy pursuant to that agreement, and subject to lien, foreclosure and loss of your property if you don't pay.  That there is the law.
2018-02-09 03:04:13 PM  
2 votes:
Sounds like a dandy way to harass a target, since they'll have to hire a lawyer at their expense to fight it. And you can do it over and over again.

I wonder if these assholes kept doing it because some of the recipients of their letters coughed up the money. The local law ought to be investigating and filing fraud charges.
2018-02-09 01:04:12 PM  
2 votes:

The Flexecutioner: this is one of the times when lawsuits are the answer. but dont sue the fake HOA. sue the departments that allowed his bogus paperwork to become 'real'. they will now have to actually vet all those applications they dont have the manpower for. they will find a way to budget that extra manpower after losing a few high dollar lawsuits for dereliction of duty AND no more fake HOAs will sneak by.

but that's too simple and plausible so of course it will never happen. good luck, homeowners!


I think that was the scariest part, these people did nothing wrong at all and have to pay for some greedy aholes crime. Hope the guy in jail has some federal mail fraud charges brought on him too.
2018-02-09 12:30:14 PM  
2 votes:

The Flexecutioner: this is one of the times when lawsuits are the answer. but dont sue the fake HOA. sue the departments that allowed his bogus paperwork to become 'real'. they will now have to actually vet all those applications they dont have the manpower for. they will find a way to budget that extra manpower after losing a few high dollar lawsuits for dereliction of duty AND no more fake HOAs will sneak by.

but that's too simple and plausible so of course it will never happen. good luck, homeowners!


Extraordinarily bad legal advice.
2018-02-10 12:26:56 AM  
1 vote:

Magorn: SpectroBoy: FTA: Mathews has since learned it's easy to file fake documents because the recorder of deeds in each county doesn't have the manpower to check out the legitimacy of each claim.

Sounds like suing the county will cover the cost of paying for the lawyer.

County didn;t do anything wrong, plus "sovereign immunity".  What needs to happen is that the law needs to change, so that, when filing a lien, the Lien holder must "serve" the property owner with a notice of lien, and there needs to be a simple form the property owner can fill out to dispute the claim and demand a small claims-style hearing before the lien is reocrded.   Most scammer won't dare show at such a hearing and it would de-weaponize liens in the hands of folks like the Sovereign Citizens


Difficulty: Proof of service is just a signature supplied by the scammer, who's already had no trouble forging other documents. Better to have the county do the mailing. And someone, somewhere, needs to incorporate some kind of email or electronic notification into deeds, because mail goes awry all the freaking time.
Ant
2018-02-09 05:29:50 PM  
1 vote:
That fact that HOAs can put liens on houses is asinine to begin with.
2018-02-09 04:09:07 PM  
1 vote:

Magorn: What needs to happen is that the law needs to change, so that, when filing a lien, the Lien holder must "serve" the property owner with a notice of lien, and there needs to be a simple form the property owner can fill out to dispute the claim and demand a small claims-style hearing before the lien is reocrded. Most scammer won't dare show at such a hearing and it would de-weaponize liens in the hands of folks like the Sovereign Citizens


Websites have better security practices than fundamentally important government services do... and website security practices SUCK
2018-02-09 03:39:16 PM  
1 vote:

FleshMonkey: Threadjack

Sometimes websites like this seem to hijack my browser and redirect it to some stupid offer.

Is it the website or some malware on my phone?

Any farkers know?


Happened to me as well and I think it comes from an ad.  I clicked again and it didn't do that.
2018-02-09 01:40:45 PM  
1 vote:

wisewerds: jayphat: wisewerds: The Flexecutioner: this is one of the times when lawsuits are the answer. but dont sue the fake HOA. sue the departments that allowed his bogus paperwork to become 'real'. they will now have to actually vet all those applications they dont have the manpower for. they will find a way to budget that extra manpower after losing a few high dollar lawsuits for dereliction of duty AND no more fake HOAs will sneak by.

but that's too simple and plausible so of course it will never happen. good luck, homeowners!

Extraordinarily bad legal advice.

Why? Sounds perfectly reasonable. The county ADMITTED they didn't have the manpower to look at all liens, just rubber stamped them. Ya, that's a lawsuit waiting to happen.

The County recorder has the duty to record all liens presented to him or her that are in proper form.  The County recorder has no duty to evaluate the validity of what appears to be a facially valid lien.  Sue the recorder, and not only will you lose, you will be paying the county's attorneys fees.

When you purchase a piece of property, you buy title insurance.  Title insurance covers claims against the title to your property (unless the claim is specifically disclosed or excepted by the language of your policy).  This kind of claim is covered.

If this happens to you, find your title insurance (it should be in there with all the other papers you were given when you closed on the purchase of your property, and if it isn't, contact the escrow company), advise them that you are making a claim because some fraudster has filed a lien against the title to your property, and insist that they defend you against the claim--i.e., pay for the attorney to do the work necessary to clear the title of the lien.  And if they balk, contact your local real property attorney, who should be happy to help you sue the pants off your title company.  In any reasonably enlightened state--one that provides that if you have to sue your insurer to obtain the benefit of your policy, you are entitled to recover attorney's fees (which is the rule in my state)--that lawsuit should occur entirely at the title company's expense.


So what's not laid out here is how much was made.  How many people decided to pay the bill, or pay the Final Notice bill, or pay the Lien.  I'm not sure how liens work, but think they can be placed on a home and only show up when you want to sell the property, so the new home buyer would pay the lien or the purchase would fall through.

Then enough people must have paid the invoices that Al Roberts, hired this Karen Sue Lovell to file the liens.   I assume that what Al did was illegal, I'm not sure what Karen did was or not.   So Al Roberts made how much from the scam?  Karen made how much from legal fees?  The liens were dropped but how many people got scammed?

So far in the story it sounds like Al and Karen aren't getting charged.    So they repeat this in several different communities with shadow companies, then just fight the liens for as long as you want and walk away when it gets too expensive.   The layer (presumably?) filing the liens doesn't even need to know it's a scam.  Not exactly a perfect crime, but close enough if you don't have much going for you, aka already a criminal or are breaking bad aka Walter White.
2018-02-09 01:38:13 PM  
1 vote:

brantgoose: You can't trust anybody nowadays, even if they are already in prison.


HA! I live in a 1967 version of that development. After 50 years, there are quite a few rebuilt/expanded houses (all new houses in my town have to have a lot of land, aka McMansions --a lot of people like to buy a normal sized house in my development and renovate). And we do have a HOA, but it is limited strictly to the pool club.
2018-02-09 01:07:00 PM  
1 vote:
The guy behind this should have one day added to his sentence for every fake dollar he billed.
2018-02-09 12:37:23 PM  
1 vote:
You can't trust anybody nowadays, even if they are already in prison.

capitalcentury.comView Full Size

I blame President Ticky-Tacky and the contractors who build identical little houses all in a row.

2018-02-09 12:08:01 PM  
1 vote:
I think it would be cheaper to hire someone to beat the women nearly to death then to have to hire an attorney. I bet it would get the fake liens lifted quicker too.
 
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