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(KSTU FOX 13)   Utah mom upset after school tells 6th graders they can't refuse when asked to dance. "My daughter keeps coming to me and saying, 'I can't say no to a boy'. That's the message kids are getting"   ( fox13now.com) divider line
    More: Asinine, Teacher, Richard, Kanesville Elementary, Education, Weber School District, bad message, sixth-grade daughter, Lesson plan  
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5188 clicks; posted to Main » on 09 Feb 2018 at 9:05 AM (23 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2018-02-09 10:27:28 AM  

flondrix: Delay: This is from years ago. My 6th grade made learning dances part of PE. This was roughly the time when it was widely understood that cooties were a game and not real.
No one asked anybody to dance. Boys formed one line, girls formed another. The teachers paired everybody up starting from the front of each line. It was rather easy for both girls and boys to adjust their positions in line and be assigned a tolerable dance buddy. Delayed thanks Denise.

There probably is some phys ed merit to teaching dancing.  There is an old Irish proverb, "Never give a sword to a man who can't dance."


That proverb may work for women too. Both my daughter and wife are accomplished at both fencing and dancing.
 
2018-02-09 10:27:55 AM  
You're telling me a state where the majority of people at least nominally belong to a weird, farked-up, patriarchal church have weird, farked-up, patriarchal bullshiat going on in their lives?
 
2018-02-09 10:29:40 AM  
The only time that girls shouldn't be allowed to refuse a partner is at a purity ball.
 
2018-02-09 10:30:27 AM  
She can't say no, because of the implication

It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia - The 'Implication'
Youtube -yUafzOXHPE
 
2018-02-09 10:30:33 AM  

ajgeek: On the one hand: this rule is intended to give kids who normally have no chance whatsoever to actually have a chance and maybe, MAYBE others will realize that the kid isn't such a freak after all.

On the other hand: A no-refusal rule now == rape? Because that's the road this article wants us to head down.

/I took a lot of rejection as a kid.


The trouble is, yeah, a no-refusal rule is good for the kids who always get rejected...  But it is worse for the psychopaths who are actually likely to end up being rapists when they realize they get power trips by making people do things they don't want to do, and using social pressure is a great tool to do it.

The kid who gets rejected needs (and deserves) individual attention from the adults in their life. So does the psychopath kid.  So does the girl who feels pressured to submit.  A one-size-fits-all rule isn't going to cut it.  Adults charged with guiding children need to do that.
 
2018-02-09 10:33:52 AM  
Article fails for lack of specifics.  First, is the dance during school hours or is it voluntary to attend or not attend?  Second, what exactly is the penalty for saying "no"?  If it's a voluntary activity and the only penalty is "well then you can't participate in the dance, cause those are the rules" then OK fine.  If there is any school-sanctioned discipline associated with it then that's bullshiat.  Also a good opportunity for 6th graders to learn how to question the authority of teachers.
 
2018-02-09 10:36:12 AM  
"Please be respectful, be polite," Findlay said. "We want to promote kindness, and so we want you to say yes when someone asks you to dance."

Another option would be to teach them how to respectfully decline.  That would be a way to promote kindness, and a good skill to have also.
 
2018-02-09 10:36:38 AM  

JNowe: "Please be respectful, be polite," Findlay said. "We want to promote kindness, and so we want you to say yes when someone asks you to dance."

Another option would be to teach them how to respectfully decline.  That would be a way to promote kindness, and a good skill to have also.


Oh, and teach them to take a rejection respectfully as well.
 
2018-02-09 10:40:21 AM  

amb: I remember in dance classes back in jr high. You picked a partner for the entire duration, but the teachers made you switch partners a lot. You ended up dancing with everyone. in hindsight not as traumatic as it seemed to a young lad.

Square dancing was for the 7th graders. Ballroom for tge 8th grade.


Ahh, the anti-jazz no-negro music curriculum.
 
2018-02-09 10:43:41 AM  

cefm: Also a good opportunity for 6th graders to learn how to question the authority of teachers.


Yes, to any young people reading this - question authority, that's something you can totally do. Not that like I think hoards of young people read fark but maybe.
 
2018-02-09 10:48:53 AM  

gyorg: Snarfangel: "Boys can't ask anyone to dance. If a girl wants to dance, she has to ask, and face possible rejection."

There, was that so hard?

These are called Sadie Hawkins dances.


In my school we had Sadie Botkins dances.

img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2018-02-09 10:50:07 AM  

feralbaby: Delay: This is from years ago. My 6th grade made learning dances part of PE. This was roughly the time when it was widely understood that cooties were a game and not real.
No one asked anybody to dance. Boys formed one line, girls formed another. The teachers paired everybody up starting from the front of each line. It was rather easy for both girls and boys to adjust their positions in line and be assigned a tolerable dance buddy. Delayed thanks Denise.

And that's where CIS gendered programming begins, right there. And everyone thinks there's no cultural brainwashing.
 It starts with elementary phys ed DO-SEE-DO-ING, PEOPLE.


Yeah, it's the school dances that lead to gender roles in neolithic tribes and aboriginal groups.
 
2018-02-09 10:54:08 AM  

big pig peaches: What if a boy asks another boy to dance?


img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2018-02-09 10:54:09 AM  

Snarfangel: Bathroom Samurai: Why is consent so hard for people to understand?

These are the only rules a dance needs:
1) Any person can ask another person to dance.
B) It is OK to respectfully decline a request to dance.
III) A declined offer must be accepted with quiet dignity and grace.

What about an accepted offer?

A poor man was in a terrible accident and lost his eye. He could only afford a wooden eye that he was very self-conscious of.

At a dance, he couldn't find a woman to dance with. He sees from the opposite side of the dance floor a girl with a large nose. Seeing that she is also without a dance partner, he approaches her, asking "Would you dance with me?"

Filled with excitement, she blurts out "Would I? Would I?!"

Angrily, the man retorts: "BIG NOSE BIG NOSE BIG NOSE!!!"


"I just wanted a dance."
vignette.wikia.nocookie.netView Full Size
 
2018-02-09 10:58:43 AM  

Thong_of_Zardoz: Teufel Ritter: Maybe if a kid is rejected constantly, he or she could make some changes to fit in better.  Rejection is a form of social pressure to steer people toward societal norms.

At school-age, kids aren't generally rejected because of how they act (something under their control), they're rejected because of how they look (something generally not under their control). If a kid is rejected constantly, that kid will almost certainly develop crushingly low self-esteem. (And forcing people to say "yes" is certainly not the answer).


Well, I was that kid for a while.  Realized I should get a reasonable haircut instead of the stupid undercut I was rocking.  So, I gave muself a fade.  I also mowed lawns until I could by some Nikes instead of the Payless shoes I had and stopped wearing some stupid t-shirts I had.  Voila, a whole new world opened up.

The one kid at middle school who could not seem to make any friends in any group just couldn't get the message about his behavior, but I think he had some serious underlying issues.

But at least we both agree that forced consent isn't a solution.
 
2018-02-09 11:01:48 AM  

winedrinkingman: depressed boys getting rejected by everyone, and feeling even more lonely, depressed and rejected.


He becomes the most loyal hubby any wife will ever find.
 
2018-02-09 11:02:17 AM  
Stupid rule is stupid. Plus, why are elementary schools having a "dance"? Forced dancing is stupid. Can't they just have a nice party and keep the mandatory dancing out of it?
 
2018-02-09 11:02:58 AM  
Doesn't matter. They're all going to hell for dancing anyway.
 
2018-02-09 11:06:09 AM  
Also, the mother is right. That should be obvious, but some people are really farking stupid and apparently can't see that telling girls they can't refuse someone to avoid a boy being rejected is replacing one psychological "trauma" with another. fark that.

We've been telling people to raise girls to insist on consent and boys to recognize and abide by it and this shiat just throws that out the window because, quite frankly, a lot of adults don't know the first farking thing about the concept of consent and don't want to know. Which is part of the problem of sexual harassment and assault.
 
2018-02-09 11:08:16 AM  

dbialac: ajgeek: On the one hand: this rule is intended to give kids who normally have no chance whatsoever to actually have a chance and maybe, MAYBE others will realize that the kid isn't such a freak after all.

On the other hand: A no-refusal rule now == rape? Because that's the road this article wants us to head down.

/I took a lot of rejection as a kid.

I took a lot of rejection as a kid, but then realized that, yes, in fact, I was a freak, and moreover that my parents were freaks. Once I realized this, I looked for better and more socially competent role models and by taking their lead, I was able to stop being a freak. Those same people who used to think I was a freak now call me normal. Put better, instead of lashing out at society, look for role models who are normal and emulate them instead of your parents.


img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2018-02-09 11:10:37 AM  

Darth_Lukecash: ArcadianRefugee: ajgeek: On the one hand: this rule is intended to give kids who normally have no chance whatsoever to actually have a chance and maybe, MAYBE others will realize that the kid isn't such a freak after all.

On the flip side, a little rejection once in a while might prevent people from growing up and thinking they are the smartest, best-looking, most talented, most successful person with the hugest audiences and highest ratings ever and most votes ever*.

Sometimes, it's good to hear "no".

And conversely, always being rejected by your peers can destroy a person. Sometimes one yes can make a huge difference in the world.

The yes policy is for the benifit of people who are shy, low confidence and people who are snobby, pompous.

The popular people might learn the unpopular aren't so bad. And popularity is nothing.


I'm puzzled by the people suggesting that forced participation may somehow help the popular kids empathize with the socially awkward ones.

I was plenty socially awkward as a kid and this sounds like a nightmare. Can you imagine how pissed and gossipy Ms. Popularity would be after being forced to dance with the weird kid instead of her crush during her favorite song? And  she ain't gonna blame the policy,  that's for sure.
 
2018-02-09 11:13:25 AM  

SirDigbyChickenCaesar: Znuh: This is what you guys voted for. Good people on both sides. Rational thought ejected out the window.

I don't recall seeing this on the ballot.


img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2018-02-09 11:14:31 AM  
/csb time

When I first found about all this anti-bulling stuff our schools are doing now days I had a knee jerk reaction that it is to appease helicopter parents. Then I thought raising a generation of kids taught to respect each other may not be such a bad thing.

THEN as my kids have gone through this school I noticed something I didn't expect. The attitude that pervades the school for anti-bulling has resulted in a level of confidence and respect in the kids class I couldn't imagine from my own years.

The story in TFA can't be taken in a vacuum. Applied to my school years it would have been disastrous. Applied to my kids school I can fully see why they are doing this.

/extra csb

At my kids school playground there is a bench called the "buddy bench". If you can't find anyone to play with you sit on it and someone will come play with you. I ask my kids if they ever sit on it and they say they do. "Do other kids come play with you then?" I ask. "Always" they tell me. I can't imagine how poorly this concept would have gone over in my day. The kids don't see it as a shameful thing or something to be ridiculed. They simply see it as an invitation to play.

The base level confidence that this has instilled in the kids is unreal. Instead of making them snowflakes it has given them to tools they need to believe in themselves - it has made them tougher. They can handle situations that would have crushed me.
 
2018-02-09 11:16:07 AM  

Harry Wagstaff: Some people just don't like to dance regardless of who is asking.


Then why are they at a school dance? These are not mandatory activities.

I hated dancing so I only went to the homecoming dances in Jr. High and HS because they were the ones that had a live band.
 
2018-02-09 11:18:11 AM  

gyorg: The standard for social dance is you may deny any dance, but you must then sit out that song.  Goes for leads or follows who are asked.  Honestly, I think it's fair.  You don't have to dance with everyone, but if you want to dance with a specific someone, you should ask them, not reject people until you get what you want.  It's not about "you don't have control" but more "you have to be gracious to everyone".

For argentine tango there's a whole standard to it.  Leads will look at follows sitting around the floor.  If they make eye contact, it means they'll dance and the lead walks up and asks them.  If they avert their eyes, the lead knows it'll be rejection and never asks.  Once you agree to dance, you dance 3 songs.


Dancing sounds fun.
 
2018-02-09 11:22:39 AM  
There's a simple solution to all this:

Get the fark out of Utah.

I mean, you don't live in Provincetown if gay things bother you, right?


also:
03 GSW 12.26.96 Cheap Utah Blues
Youtube Vzf8NCZGWg0
 
2018-02-09 11:22:56 AM  
theregoesthat:
I'm puzzled by the people suggesting that forced participation may somehow help the popular kids empathize with the socially awkward ones.

I was plenty socially awkward as a kid and this sounds like a nightmare. Can you imagine how pissed and gossipy Ms. Popularity would be after being forced to dance with the weird kid instead of her crush during her favorite song? And  she ain't gonna blame the policy,  that's for sure.


This. The adults running this thing are idiots.
 
2018-02-09 11:25:47 AM  

gyorg: The standard for social dance is you may deny any dance, but you must then sit out that song.  Goes for leads or follows who are asked.  Honestly, I think it's fair.  You don't have to dance with everyone, but if you want to dance with a specific someone, you should ask them, not reject people until you get what you want.  It's not about "you don't have control" but more "you have to be gracious to everyone".

For argentine tango there's a whole standard to it.  Leads will look at follows sitting around the floor.  If they make eye contact, it means they'll dance and the lead walks up and asks them.  If they avert their eyes, the lead knows it'll be rejection and never asks.  Once you agree to dance, you dance 3 songs.


Grandma Mabel and her rules of etiquette can fark off. I have always maintained the right to refuse to dance and anyone else should be able to do the same.

No.
 
2018-02-09 11:26:04 AM  

ajgeek: On the one hand: this rule is intended to give kids who normally have no chance whatsoever to actually have a chance and maybe, MAYBE others will realize that the kid isn't such a freak after all.

On the other hand: A no-refusal rule now == rape? Because that's the road this article wants us to head down.

/I took a lot of rejection as a kid.


Yes. Kids should be required to be as polite and respectful to each other as the adults can enforce, acknowledging that kids can be pretty terrible and adults can't always prevent it.

Should Suzie be a completely awful little biatch to Jimmy when he asks her to dance?  Not hardly. Teaching kids to politely say "i'm sorry, I'm not interested" is a good lesson. A bad lesson is telling Suzie that she has to engage with Jimmy beyond treating him with respect.  That even though his parents haven't taught him about deodorant yet, that even though he still picks his nose and eats it at 13, she has to dance with him whether she likes it or not. It's not "rape," but it is forcing young people to engage in behavior significantly more intimate than the courtesy expected of human coexistence. It's also not doing Jimmy any favors; he wants to dance with Suzie and the principal will make it happen. It's perfectly fine that he's a smelly booger-eater. It might delay the beginning of some introspection concerning why girls might not like him.
 
2018-02-09 11:28:25 AM  

gyorg: The standard for social dance is you may deny any dance, but you must then sit out that song.  Goes for leads or follows who are asked.  Honestly, I think it's fair.  You don't have to dance with everyone, but if you want to dance with a specific someone, you should ask them, not reject people until you get what you want.  It's not about "you don't have control" but more "you have to be gracious to everyone".


A bunch of budding computer hackers could launch a denial-of-service attack on a popular girl.
 
2018-02-09 11:30:51 AM  
That sort of thing should be taught at home or in the Church.
 
2018-02-09 11:33:51 AM  

catmandu: Harry Wagstaff: Some people just don't like to dance regardless of who is asking.

Then why are they at a school dance? These are not mandatory activities.

I hated dancing so I only went to the homecoming dances in Jr. High and HS because they were the ones that had a live band.


Did you just incredlously ask why kids who don't like to dance would go to a dance and then provide a reason for such behavior a sentence later?
 
2018-02-09 11:34:16 AM  
Girls don't owe you shiat. The end. Get the fark over it.

/wipes up puke
 
2018-02-09 11:35:50 AM  

Znuh: This is what you guys voted for. Good people on both sides. Rational thought ejected out the window.


According to the news, this policy has been in place for some years. you know, for "inclusion." So if the vote your talking about is the "vote" to install diversity and tolerance and all that other PC rubbish meant to protect children from hurt feelings... yup.
 
2018-02-09 11:42:30 AM  
Here is how it should work:

Elementary School
- Kids do not choose who the dance with. Instead, everyone rotates so that everyone ends up dancing with each other at some point in time.

Middle School + High School
- Kids can ask other kids to dance. They can accept or reject them and choose to dance with one partner the entire night if they mutually want to. Some kids might not have partners or get a dance. If anyone is a little shiat though and is obnoxious or picks on someone else, then that person is automatically ejected from the event.

Kids should learn to be open-minded, but coming of age and learning rejection and what not is integral to the growth of the individual. It can be a brutal experience as well as defeating. The kids who are ducks need to be set the fark straight swiftly, and drastically. When you are in middle school, you reach a pivotal point in your life that will likely influence who you become as an adult more than any other time in your life. Robbing kids of that point is only stunting their development.
 
2018-02-09 11:45:06 AM  

Christian Bale: 100% inclusiveness culture meets #MeToo, and this is what happens.

Solution: Girls can say no to the guys but have to give them a "You Tried!" participation ribbon.


But the boys who didn't ask wouldn't get a ribbon, and we can't have that.
 
2018-02-09 11:45:07 AM  
...just wait until folk dancing in junior high.  Then the teachers get upset when a boy refuses to dance with a boy and a girl refuses to dance with a girl.
 
2018-02-09 11:46:26 AM  

ArcadianRefugee: ajgeek: On the one hand: this rule is intended to give kids who normally have no chance whatsoever to actually have a chance and maybe, MAYBE others will realize that the kid isn't such a freak after all.

On the flip side, a little rejection once in a while might prevent people from growing up and thinking they are the smartest, best-looking, most talented, most successful person with the hugest audiences and highest ratings ever and most votes ever*.

Sometimes, it's good to hear "no".


vignette.wikia.nocookie.netView Full Size


Yeah, totally worked. Dude really got the point after being rejected enough times.
 
2018-02-09 11:48:23 AM  

Dodger: What happened to our tried & true method?

[img.fark.net image 425x318]


She died from marijuana.
 
2018-02-09 11:49:17 AM  

EmptyCup: The base level confidence that this has instilled in the kids is unreal. Instead of making them snowflakes it has given them to tools they need to believe in themselves - it has made them tougher. They can handle situations that would have crushed me.


How old are your kids?  This matters a lot, because it is a natural phase when kids start dividing into social groups.  I'm not saying they should turn into bullies, and destroyers of confidence, just they will start not playing with everyone.  A D&D player isn't going to give up their game to kick hacky sac with a jock.  They'll develop interest, and will gravitate towards that.  Younger children are more naturally inclusive.  It's good when they hang on to respectful behavior of other people, but it's okay for them to have specific interest too.
 
2018-02-09 12:01:32 PM  

EmptyCup: /csb time

When I first found about all this anti-bulling stuff our schools are doing now days I had a knee jerk reaction that it is to appease helicopter parents. Then I thought raising a generation of kids taught to respect each other may not be such a bad thing.

THEN as my kids have gone through this school I noticed something I didn't expect. The attitude that pervades the school for anti-bulling has resulted in a level of confidence and respect in the kids class I couldn't imagine from my own years.

The story in TFA can't be taken in a vacuum. Applied to my school years it would have been disastrous. Applied to my kids school I can fully see why they are doing this.

/extra csb

At my kids school playground there is a bench called the "buddy bench". If you can't find anyone to play with you sit on it and someone will come play with you. I ask my kids if they ever sit on it and they say they do. "Do other kids come play with you then?" I ask. "Always" they tell me. I can't imagine how poorly this concept would have gone over in my day. The kids don't see it as a shameful thing or something to be ridiculed. They simply see it as an invitation to play.

The base level confidence that this has instilled in the kids is unreal. Instead of making them snowflakes it has given them to tools they need to believe in themselves - it has made them tougher. They can handle situations that would have crushed me.


Good post.

I often laugh at how my kid's elementary school reminds me of that wacky teacher in Heathers, but if he's happy and someday manages to be less miserable in Middle School, then I'm fine with that.

The older he is before I need to teach him how to hold his own in a fight, the better. He's an incredibly kind kid, but I want be sure that the first time someone confuses the difference between kindness and weakness, they learn the difference.

Frankly, the school has an excellent approach. It's dancing. Nothing else. Dancing. It doesn't lead to anything. Just dancing.

At my school dances, I ended up dancing with girls who were out of my league, and with girls who were in a league below me. It wasn't mandatory, but there would have been 5x as much dancing going on if people weren't spending their time worried about rejection.

Small wins, even when it's impossible to fail, can help fragile people become healthy individuals instead of crazed school shooters.
 
2018-02-09 12:05:31 PM  

lack of warmth: EmptyCup: The base level confidence that this has instilled in the kids is unreal. Instead of making them snowflakes it has given them to tools they need to believe in themselves - it has made them tougher. They can handle situations that would have crushed me.

How old are your kids?  This matters a lot, because it is a natural phase when kids start dividing into social groups.  I'm not saying they should turn into bullies, and destroyers of confidence, just they will start not playing with everyone.  A D&D player isn't going to give up their game to kick hacky sac with a jock.  They'll develop interest, and will gravitate towards that.  Younger children are more naturally inclusive.  It's good when they hang on to respectful behavior of other people, but it's okay for them to have specific interest too.


5th and 3rd grade. The 5th grader has already formed their own social groups - 3rd grader not yet. I'm not saying everyone will play with everyone, but the kids who would normally be crushed (at this age) by the "cool" kids isn't something I'm even seeing as existing. It is weird how they (and their friends) can handle themselves. My 5th grader is a nerd and he's confident with that.

Quick example. Recently a kid was making fun of my 5th grader for something he liked (forget the exact thing). My kids response was along the lines of "so, what's your point?" Then kids around my kid started piping up that they liked the same thing - matter of fact style. Shut the kid down without aggression and was supported immediately by kids around him. I can't see anything in that situation going like that when I was a kid.

Whatever our school is doing works. I'd like to hope the Mrs and I play a part as well, but there's a whole social structure culture they built that is amazing.
 
2018-02-09 12:08:27 PM  

SMB2811: dbialac: ajgeek: On the one hand: this rule is intended to give kids who normally have no chance whatsoever to actually have a chance and maybe, MAYBE others will realize that the kid isn't such a freak after all.

On the other hand: A no-refusal rule now == rape? Because that's the road this article wants us to head down.

/I took a lot of rejection as a kid.

I took a lot of rejection as a kid, but then realized that, yes, in fact, I was a freak, and moreover that my parents were freaks. Once I realized this, I looked for better and more socially competent role models and by taking their lead, I was able to stop being a freak. Those same people who used to think I was a freak now call me normal. Put better, instead of lashing out at society, look for role models who are normal and emulate them instead of your parents.

[img.fark.net image 450x450]


See, that first word there -- "Obey" is the start of your problem. Healthy authority isn't about control; it's not about "do what I tell you." That's where weirdness starts. Instead, it's about choice and boundaries, specifically authority respecting the fact that you have ultimate authority over yourself and you understanding that your choices have consequences when you violate boundaries.
 
2018-02-09 12:11:51 PM  
Utah or as I've come to call it West Alabama.
 
2018-02-09 12:16:10 PM  

Smelly Pirate Hooker: Stupid rule is stupid. Plus, why are elementary schools having a "dance"? Forced dancing is stupid. Can't they just have a nice party and keep the mandatory dancing out of it?


i0.kym-cdn.comView Full Size
 
2018-02-09 12:16:27 PM  

gyorg: The standard for social dance is you may deny any dance, but you must then sit out that song.  Goes for leads or follows who are asked.  Honestly, I think it's fair.  You don't have to dance with everyone, but if you want to dance with a specific someone, you should ask them, not reject people until you get what you want.  It's not about "you don't have control" but more "you have to be gracious to everyone".

For argentine tango there's a whole standard to it.  Leads will look at follows sitting around the floor.  If they make eye contact, it means they'll dance and the lead walks up and asks them.  If they avert their eyes, the lead knows it'll be rejection and never asks.  Once you agree to dance, you dance 3 songs.


We handled it a much simpler way: people just said no. That technically didn't apply to the Sadie Hawkins dance, because we weren't allowed to hurt the poor wittle lady's feelings, but in reality you just let her know it wasn't going to be fun because you weren't interested.

Jesuchristo, rejection is a part of growing up, for boys and girls, men and women.
 
2018-02-09 12:17:51 PM  

Nadie_AZ: Can she ask the boys she wants to dance with and bypass the ones she doesn't? Or is girls asking boys to dance still considered witchcraft?


The girls should be allowed to give back the $10 if the don't to give the dance.
 
2018-02-09 12:18:23 PM  

Smelly Pirate Hooker: Stupid rule is stupid. Plus, why are elementary schools having a "dance"? Forced dancing is stupid. Can't they just have a nice party and keep the mandatory dancing out of it?


Stupid rule is stupid, rejection is a part of growing up and becoming an adult. Of course this is part of the "you have to consider everyone's feelings" line of thinking, in my day the kids just looked at the person who asked and said "No." Can't do that today, might hurt little Johnny or Janie's fee-fees.

/idiots
 
2018-02-09 12:19:20 PM  

ajgeek: On the one hand: this rule is intended to give kids who normally have no chance whatsoever to actually have a chance and maybe, MAYBE others will realize that the kid isn't such a freak after all.

On the other hand: A no-refusal rule now == rape? Because that's the road this article wants us to head down.

/I took a lot of rejection as a kid.


I am sorry that you faced rejection. But teaching little girls that they can't say no is a terrible thing.  If you can't see that, you are being willfully blind.

If you think that this would stop kids from being cruel little monsters to each other, you are dreaming.  It is a problem that should be addressed, but this is not the way and this is harmful.
 
2018-02-09 12:19:54 PM  

gyorg: The standard for social dance is you may deny any dance, but you must then sit out that song.  Goes for leads or follows who are asked.  Honestly, I think it's fair.  You don't have to dance with everyone, but if you want to dance with a specific someone, you should ask them, not reject people until you get what you want.  It's not about "you don't have control" but more "you have to be gracious to everyone".

For argentine tango there's a whole standard to it.  Leads will look at follows sitting around the floor.  If they make eye contact, it means they'll dance and the lead walks up and asks them.  If they avert their eyes, the lead knows it'll be rejection and never asks.  Once you agree to dance, you dance 3 songs.


Interesting.
 
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