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(Slate)   Compared to American kids, German kids have far more freedom to explore, be independent, learn from mistakes, annex the Sudetenland   ( slate.com) divider line
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2827 clicks; posted to Main » on 08 Feb 2018 at 6:05 PM (23 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2018-02-08 04:21:55 PM  
img.fark.netView Full Size


/SCOTTY DOESN'T KNOW!
 
2018-02-08 05:03:34 PM  
I was born in the early 1960s. Playgrounds were dangerous--metal on concrete, asphalt, or gravel. My parents didn't make dates for me to play. I just played. I explored creeks on my own. I climbed trees, built fires, played with real bows and arrows, and skinned my knees...a lot. I was babysitting a neighbor's kid when I was ten (early 1970s). I did a lot of dumb things, and I learned a lot of stuff all on my own. This was normal, even though the world was measurably more dangerous.

I wasn't a tomboy. I was actually considered something of a girly-girl and a bit of a priss, even though there were no pink princess outfits ready made for structured play time. I was a normal little girl for the time. It makes me sad that we box our kids up so much. Of course, I was the sixth of seven kids. I'm not saying my folks didn't value us as much as parents who have only one child. They did. But I think that parents who have passels of kids learn that kids are a lot less fragile and a lot more resilient than the people who only have one or two children later in life.
 
2018-02-08 05:31:07 PM  
My former exchange student daughter is raising two boys in Berlin. TFA is accurate.
 
2018-02-08 05:32:24 PM  
but mooooooooooooom!  wilhelm stole my lebensraum!
 
2018-02-08 05:32:24 PM  
It's not the kid's decision to be micromanaged. These helicopter parents are from the previous generation.
 
2018-02-08 05:35:23 PM  
Well, yeah. They've got universal healthcare, as well as tuition-free college education and job training.
 
2018-02-08 06:04:41 PM  

Bith Set Me Up: Well, yeah. They've got universal healthcare, as well as tuition-free college education and job training.



Despite all that, they need to smile more.

/I keed.
//Sort of.
///But the friendliest guy I met in Munich was a Croatian guy who worked at an Irish pub.
 
2018-02-08 06:07:41 PM  
Not my 'bunny hutch. I kick their scraggly asses out at day break and they're free-range until the street lights come on.
 
2018-02-08 06:07:54 PM  
img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2018-02-08 06:11:08 PM  
Well, that explains that whole nazi thing they had going on back in the day.
 
2018-02-08 06:12:39 PM  
Say what you want, but German kids will always be kinder.
 
2018-02-08 06:13:06 PM  

DeaH: I was born in the early 1960s. Playgrounds were dangerous--metal on concrete, asphalt, or gravel. My parents didn't make dates for me to play. I just played. I explored creeks on my own. I climbed trees, built fires, played with real bows and arrows, and skinned my knees...a lot. I was babysitting a neighbor's kid when I was ten (early 1970s). I did a lot of dumb things, and I learned a lot of stuff all on my own. This was normal, even though the world was measurably more dangerous.

I wasn't a tomboy. I was actually considered something of a girly-girl and a bit of a priss, even though there were no pink princess outfits ready made for structured play time. I was a normal little girl for the time. It makes me sad that we box our kids up so much. Of course, I was the sixth of seven kids. I'm not saying my folks didn't value us as much as parents who have only one child. They did. But I think that parents who have passels of kids learn that kids are a lot less fragile and a lot more resilient than the people who only have one or two children later in life.


I'm all for arguing kids need experiences to grow.

I'll never figure out why physically unsafe toys have anything to offer here. I'm 36, we had shiatty playgrounds, I wandered the neighborhood goofing off, etc etc too, fwiw.
 
2018-02-08 06:14:52 PM  

scubatuck: Say what you want, but German kids will always be kinder.


surprise?
 
2018-02-08 06:15:46 PM  
I think I'd pay some Dutchmen to set fire to Lord Snowdon.
 
2018-02-08 06:17:42 PM  
If only somebody taught them to not cheat on diesel tests.
 
2018-02-08 06:18:21 PM  
Ok, I live in a city because that's where the VA would help me buy a house, instead of out in the roomy suburbs.  If I let my kid run around outside, I'll get a visit from both CPS and the cops -- that's not conjecture, btw.  It's actually happened, when he was playing alone in our yard within sight of the street.  Our neighbors are people I very definitely don't want my kid associating with, between the open drug use in their yards and the fact that their kids' only form of entertainment is wandering around in packs stealing from the corner stores or vandalizing neighborhood cars and structures.

I will never have the ability to move away, short of my parents dying unexpectedly and leaving their wealth.  So...how exactly am I supposed to raise a free-range kid?  Because I really, REALLY, want to, but I simply don't see a way to do so.  And I can absolutely guarantee I'm not the only person in my peer group stuck like this.
 
2018-02-08 06:18:58 PM  

Somacandra: I think I'd pay some Dutchmen to set fire to Lord Snowdon.


I think all righthtinking people in this country are sick and tired of being told that ordinary, decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired.
 
2018-02-08 06:20:09 PM  
Also, their English spelling is better

Dead for Tax Reasons: scubatuck: Say what you want, but German kids will always be kinder.

surprise?


Heh, nope. Kinder is the German word for kids
 
2018-02-08 06:21:22 PM  
CSB:

One time, in a job interview, I made a joke. It was amusing enough that the Germany-born-and-raised-man-who-would-​be-my-boss actually smirked, then cleared his throat.  I can't describe how proud I was of myself in that moment.

/Didn't want the job after the interview
 
2018-02-08 06:24:42 PM  

lucksi: Also, their English spelling is better

Dead for Tax Reasons: scubatuck: Say what you want, but German kids will always be kinder.

surprise?

Heh, nope. Kinder is the German word for kids


thanks captain obvious
 
2018-02-08 06:26:42 PM  

lucksi: Also, their English spelling is better

Dead for Tax Reasons: scubatuck: Say what you want, but German kids will always be kinder.

surprise?

Heh, nope. Kinder is the German word for kids

English adopted the German word "Kinder-Garten" almost as-is (changing only the capitalization and removing the hyphenation), which literally means "garden of children."
 
2018-02-08 06:31:35 PM  
I try to let my kids have a much freedom as is possible. The problem isn't so much what I would allow, it's more "will people accuse me of neglect?". Many parents are being micromanaged as to how they can raise their child (can't leave them home! Can't let them out of your sight!), so they never have the chance to give the child more freedom.
 
2018-02-08 06:32:38 PM  
That's a man, baby!

compote.slate.comView Full Size


I raise my kid as liberally as possible. Not as extreme as TFA, but not like most modern American parents. It isn't the end of the world if your toddler skins his knee or gets frustrated trying to learn to do something the first time. I only step in if it's life-threatening, dangerous to other kids, or I have to be somewhere soon and it is taking way too long.
 
2018-02-08 06:34:52 PM  
Exploration and independence in children leads to one place. A boot-strappy adult.

And we can't have that...
 
2018-02-08 06:36:18 PM  

togaman2k: That's a man, baby!



She must be on the East German Winter Olympics Team.

/East Germany is still a thing, right?
 
2018-02-08 06:39:39 PM  
Li'l Hitler (COMPLETE) | Robot Chicken | Adult Swim
Youtube VHSPP-CzNl0
 
2018-02-08 06:41:11 PM  
My non-free range children are that way for one reason and one reason only, shiaty drivers.  My well-to-do neighborhood turns into a racetrack before and after school.  There is no worse driver than a parent late for drop off/pick-up
 
2018-02-08 06:42:43 PM  
White people problems
 
2018-02-08 06:47:46 PM  
Frigate leans to the Right
 
2018-02-08 06:52:20 PM  
Yep, it sucks to grow up in a shiathole country.

/ spent all my vacation time starting at about 13 years old hiking in the mountains in the other side of the country
// parents gave a bit of money and said "have fun", send some postcard every now and then
/// it helped to have free education, like they have in Germany
 
2018-02-08 06:57:12 PM  

scubatuck: Say what you want, but German kids will always be kinder.


that joke only works in the written word. Kudos!
 
2018-02-08 06:58:36 PM  

COMALite J: lucksi: Also, their English spelling is better

Dead for Tax Reasons: scubatuck: Say what you want, but German kids will always be kinder.

surprise?

Heh, nope. Kinder is the German word for kids
English adopted the German word "Kinder-Garten" almost as-is (changing only the capitalization and removing the hyphenation), which literally means "garden of children."


oooooooh, you got FARKSPLAINED!
 
2018-02-08 07:28:06 PM  
While the article mainly discussed early childhood, it could apply for most of childhood through teenage years (Drinking age of 16 (spirits 18)) with one exception, driving, which is 18 (permit at 17); but can't say that is all bad.
 
2018-02-08 07:35:27 PM  
img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2018-02-08 07:36:35 PM  

DeaH: I was born in the early 1960s. Playgrounds were dangerous--metal on concrete, asphalt, or gravel. My parents didn't make dates for me to play. I just played. I explored creeks on my own. I climbed trees, built fires, played with real bows and arrows, and skinned my knees...a lot. I was babysitting a neighbor's kid when I was ten (early 1970s). I did a lot of dumb things, and I learned a lot of stuff all on my own. This was normal, even though the world was measurably more dangerous.


Fast forward 20 years and you have me in the 80s and 90s doing the latchkey thing.

DeaH: I wasn't a tomboy. I was actually considered something of a girly-girl and a bit of a priss, even though there were no pink princess outfits ready made for structured play time. I was a normal little girl for the time. It makes me sad that we box our kids up so much. Of course, I was the sixth of seven kids. I'm not saying my folks didn't value us as much as parents who have only one child. They did. But I think that parents who have passels of kids learn that kids are a lot less fragile and a lot more resilient than the people who only have one or two children later in life.


Fast forward another 20 years and you have exactly why there's (only very recently) tapped large demand for the Boy Scouts to go co-ed.

Talking to coworkers, seems I turned out as far less of a sociopath than they did with far more structure.
 
2018-02-08 07:38:53 PM  

Watubi: My non-free range children are that way for one reason and one reason only, shiaty drivers.  My well-to-do neighborhood turns into a racetrack before and after school.  There is no worse driver than a parent late for drop off/pick-up


I grew up free range, in Germany.  You have no idea of traffic, American!
 
2018-02-08 07:40:21 PM  

COMALite J: lucksi: Also, their English spelling is better

Dead for Tax Reasons: scubatuck: Say what you want, but German kids will always be kinder.

surprise?

Heh, nope. Kinder is the German word for kids
English adopted the German word "Kinder-Garten" almost as-is (changing only the capitalization and removing the hyphenation), which literally means "garden of children."


Is that anything like a Japanese garden?

POLICE SQUAD - Japanese Garden
Youtube y6UNUOwOLD4
 
2018-02-08 07:42:05 PM  

togaman2k: That's a man, baby!

[compote.slate.com image 380x570]

I raise my kid as liberally as possible. Not as extreme as TFA, but not like most modern American parents. It isn't the end of the world if your toddler skins his knee or gets frustrated trying to learn to do something the first time. I only step in if it's life-threatening, dangerous to other kids, or I have to be somewhere soon and it is taking way too long.


Pretty much the approach my sister takes with her kids.  They've got free roam of about a third of the small town they live in; biggest rule they have is "be polite around the neighbors" and "don't cross any streets with orange lines on them." Conveniently, this also keeps 'em about two blocks back from the ocean as well.
 
2018-02-08 07:43:54 PM  

Watubi: My non-free range children are that way for one reason and one reason only, shiaty drivers.  My well-to-do neighborhood turns into a racetrack before and after school.  There is no worse driver than a parent late for drop off/pick-up


Your neighborhood might want to invest in a couple of these:
njpacoop.orgView Full Size
 
2018-02-08 07:54:05 PM  
according to the german born and raised mother of my child, this article only only applies to the filthy bayerische bazis, and the smelly shopping bag toting turkeii.

so, avoid having kids with the north germans.
 
2018-02-08 08:11:12 PM  
What TFA fails to mention is that many Germans essentially have an extended adolescence that lasts well into their late 20s.

The reason?

As long as you are a student, your parents are obligated to support you.

Finish your Abitur at age 19, do two years of mandatory civil service, get into Uni, take six years to finish...or more.

It's not hard to be 27 or older before you enter the workforce, if you can find a job.

So basically, what we make fun of millennials and their enabling parents for is proscribed by law in Germany.
 
2018-02-08 08:17:38 PM  

Watubi: My non-free range children are that way for one reason and one reason only, shiaty drivers.  My well-to-do neighborhood turns into a racetrack before and after school.  There is no worse driver than a parent late for drop off/pick-up


That problem exists in Europe but to a much lesser extent.
A much higher proportion of the neighborhoods are walkable.
I also think that before we beat ourselves up over raising children and perhaps a lower quality fashion in Germany does, we should look at our birth rate compared to Germany's.
The type of macro economy and government regulations that produces a lot of walkable neighborhoods also produces a very high cost per square foot of living space and a feeling that one does not have enough room or income for children, even if the mom gets a paid half year off of work for giving birth.
 
2018-02-08 08:29:49 PM  

Smackledorfer: DeaH: I was born in the early 1960s. Playgrounds were dangerous--metal on concrete, asphalt, or gravel. My parents didn't make dates for me to play. I just played. I explored creeks on my own. I climbed trees, built fires, played with real bows and arrows, and skinned my knees...a lot. I was babysitting a neighbor's kid when I was ten (early 1970s). I did a lot of dumb things, and I learned a lot of stuff all on my own. This was normal, even though the world was measurably more dangerous.

I wasn't a tomboy. I was actually considered something of a girly-girl and a bit of a priss, even though there were no pink princess outfits ready made for structured play time. I was a normal little girl for the time. It makes me sad that we box our kids up so much. Of course, I was the sixth of seven kids. I'm not saying my folks didn't value us as much as parents who have only one child. They did. But I think that parents who have passels of kids learn that kids are a lot less fragile and a lot more resilient than the people who only have one or two children later in life.

I'm all for arguing kids need experiences to grow.

I'll never figure out why physically unsafe toys have anything to offer here. I'm 36, we had shiatty playgrounds, I wandered the neighborhood goofing off, etc etc too, fwiw.


Some of the "unsafe" toys are fine if you're not stupid. A bow and arrow is fine if you don't just shoot them in the air or fire when people are near the target. The same is true for Jarts (which we had). Just don't throw the giant darts when someone is standing near the goal. Other things were totally nuts. Clackers? The best a kid could ever hope for were serious bruises. Trying to get the two  heavy glass balls to slam into each other at the top and the bottom of the arc was a blast if you could get them going just right, but mostly, they'd slam into soft tissue or bang bone. There was always that one kid who wanted to act like David meeting Goliath, and there were cases of the balls shattering, and the shards injuring kids. Worst toy idea ever. Mine were a pretty peach color.
img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2018-02-08 08:33:13 PM  
FTA:

In a memorable scene of Sara Zaske's guide to German-style parenting, Achtung Baby: An American Mom on the German Art of Raising Self-Reliant Children, Zaske sends her 4-year-old daughter Sophia to her Berlin preschool with a bathing suit in her bag.

I think Bono may have something to say about that book title.
 
2018-02-08 08:39:06 PM  

Baloo Uriza: DeaH: I was born in the early 1960s. Playgrounds were dangerous--metal on concrete, asphalt, or gravel. My parents didn't make dates for me to play. I just played. I explored creeks on my own. I climbed trees, built fires, played with real bows and arrows, and skinned my knees...a lot. I was babysitting a neighbor's kid when I was ten (early 1970s). I did a lot of dumb things, and I learned a lot of stuff all on my own. This was normal, even though the world was measurably more dangerous.

Fast forward 20 years and you have me in the 80s and 90s doing the latchkey thing.

DeaH: I wasn't a tomboy. I was actually considered something of a girly-girl and a bit of a priss, even though there were no pink princess outfits ready made for structured play time. I was a normal little girl for the time. It makes me sad that we box our kids up so much. Of course, I was the sixth of seven kids. I'm not saying my folks didn't value us as much as parents who have only one child. They did. But I think that parents who have passels of kids learn that kids are a lot less fragile and a lot more resilient than the people who only have one or two children later in life.

Fast forward another 20 years and you have exactly why there's (only very recently) tapped large demand for the Boy Scouts to go co-ed.

Talking to coworkers, seems I turned out as far less of a sociopath than they did with far more structure.


Interesting points, but I am pretty clueless about the direct line to coed Boy Scouts. I don't see a connection, but I was in 4-H, not Scouts. Frankly, after seeing our current president turn the Boy Scout Jamboree into a semi Hitler Youth meeting, I don't get why parents would want their sons or daughters in the Boy Scouts.
 
2018-02-08 08:39:17 PM  

Day_Old_Dutchie: FTA:

In a memorable scene of Sara Zaske's guide to German-style parenting, Achtung Baby: An American Mom on the German Art of Raising Self-Reliant Children, Zaske sends her 4-year-old daughter Sophia to her Berlin preschool with a bathing suit in her bag.

I think Bono may have something to say about that book title.


Lorenzo St. DuBois has something to say about that book title.
 
2018-02-08 08:43:01 PM  
i.ytimg.comView Full Size

/I understand that if someone had just punched this kid, Cabaret would have had a happy ending.
 
2018-02-08 08:48:24 PM  

gar1013: What TFA fails to mention is that many Germans essentially have an extended adolescence that lasts well into their late 20s.

The reason?

As long as you are a student, your parents are obligated to support you.

Finish your Abitur at age 19, do two years of mandatory civil service, get into Uni, take six years to finish...or more.

It's not hard to be 27 or older before you enter the workforce, if you can find a job.

So basically, what we make fun of millennials and their enabling parents for is proscribed by law in Germany.


Germany has no mandatory civil service, it was abolished in 2011.  And when they did, it was 6 months, not two years.

And it's clearly a good concept to have students supported by parents, and with free healthcare and tuition it's not nearly the burden on parents that it would be here with our horrible healthcare and insane tuition.  And the public gets the benefit of a highly educated workforce.
 
2018-02-08 08:49:01 PM  
Kick kids out the door at sunrise if they make it back before sunset, success.
 
2018-02-08 08:50:33 PM  

hauoli_akua: CSB:

One time, in a job interview, I made a joke. It was amusing enough that the Germany-born-and-raised-man-who-would-​be-my-boss actually smirked, then cleared his throat.  I can't describe how proud I was of myself in that moment.

/Didn't want the job after the interview


Should have told the "Why do French line their roads with trees? So Germans can march in the shade" joke.

They like that one.

/At least my Dad's German born second wife did.
 
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