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(WTOP)   Legislator: Let's make caller ID spoofing illegal. How do you tell who's doing it. Check the ... oops didn't think that one through   ( wtop.com) divider line
    More: Dumbass, United States, caller ID spoofing, local area code, Caller ID, Afzali, Maryland, Frederick, Maryland, Telephone number  
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7198 clicks; posted to Main » on 08 Feb 2018 at 8:50 AM (23 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2018-02-08 07:56:49 AM  
The telcos know the true source of the call.
 
2018-02-08 08:08:41 AM  
It was going to be my signature issue. I've posted about it before.
Anyway, with a few key add-ons, I'm all for it. Yes, it will put a cramp into VoIP but that can be resolved readily enough. Carrier liable upon multiple complaints/abuses.
 
2018-02-08 08:24:13 AM  
Well, THAT link is down...
 
2018-02-08 08:34:28 AM  
I'm OK with this. I have to keep my ringer turned off at home because, even with NoMoRoBo, I get 3-4 calls a day from folks with invalid or spoofed CIDs.
 
2018-02-08 08:52:22 AM  
One of the best features, or apps on my cell phone is that "block caller" feature.

If I don't recognize the caller, I pick up, don't say a word and if I don't hear anyone or if I hear a few clicks and then the sound of people yelling in cubes, I hang up and block the caller.
 
2018-02-08 08:55:23 AM  
Is this like being behind seven proxies?
 
2018-02-08 08:55:53 AM  

steklo: One of the best features, or apps on my cell phone is that "block caller" feature.

If I don't recognize the caller, I pick up, don't say a word and if I don't hear anyone or if I hear a few clicks and then the sound of people yelling in cubes, I hang up and block the caller.


I thought you were just playing hard-to-get.....Why won't you talk to me, steklo?!
 
2018-02-08 08:56:57 AM  

bigfatbuddhist: Well, THAT link is down...


rjakobi: Is this like being behind seven proxies?


In an ironic twist it's being spoofed.
 
2018-02-08 08:57:07 AM  

BizarreMan: The telcos know the true source of the call.


...but they won't tell you.  Had that argument with them many times.

steklo: One of the best features, or apps on my cell phone is that "block caller" feature.

If I don't recognize the caller, I pick up, don't say a word and if I don't hear anyone or if I hear a few clicks and then the sound of people yelling in cubes, I hang up and block the caller.


You clearly don't understand what "caller ID spoofing" means.  They can pretend to be calling from your mother's cell phone, or your wife's, or whatever.
 
2018-02-08 08:59:17 AM  
Just let me block a whole range of phone numbers. My mobile number is 617-749-xxxx. At least half the spam calls I receive are from that area code and exchange.
 
2018-02-08 08:59:21 AM  
The one that pisses me off the most is when it says the call is from my own number. What the hell do they think they're achieving with that?

Second-most are the ones on my work cell phone, a number that *nobody* has outside of my wife and a few coworkers, showing calls from all kinds of numbers not only within my own area code, but with the same first three digits as my number. As if it's, I guess, a neighbor calling.

I have the ultimate weapon against them, though. I have literally one friend, and two relatives, who would ever call me. So I can ignore everything else. If it's anything that matters, they'll leave a message, and if it really matters, they'll send snail mail.

Oh wait I want to change my first most-hated. It's when Pete Roskam calls pretending to be a responsible, adult member of Congress and he starts screaming about that there Obama and these here liberals. The fact that I live in a district where a large majority votes for a cretin like him probably partly explains why I don't have friends.

/partly
 
2018-02-08 08:59:33 AM  

rjakobi: Is this like being behind seven proxies?


Boxxies.

img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2018-02-08 09:01:42 AM  
It isn't telemarketers doing the spoofing.

I got a phone call yesterday from someone saying there was a complaint about me and that I should call this 866 number with a reference.

Yeah.. not a chance.

No I didn't win a free vacation, that was Monday.
 
2018-02-08 09:02:35 AM  
The end user that gets called should get a piece of the fine pie.
 
2018-02-08 09:02:51 AM  
As much as everyone is winging their hands about this issue, it would really be trivially easy to solve. The only reason it's still a thing is that solving it will require the telcos to spend a little bit of money. shiat, just doing something as simple as verifying identity in order to get a virtual number would cut the number of spam robocalls tremendously.
 
2018-02-08 09:03:10 AM  
I'd be all for this. I regularly get phone calls with the same exchange number as my cell phone number. If they use the same number more than once I block them, but it's so easy for them to just spoof another number.

/the only other calls equally as annoying are the damn alumni association fundraiser calls
 
2018-02-08 09:03:24 AM  

steklo: One of the best features, or apps on my cell phone is that "block caller" feature.

If I don't recognize the caller, I pick up, don't say a word and if I don't hear anyone or if I hear a few clicks and then the sound of people yelling in cubes, I hang up and block the caller.


Which will mean fark all when the next call comes in from a different #. I'm almost never called by a real person in a call center. It's always a robo from a number on my exchange.

I thought of coding an app that sends all calls not from one's contacts into VM, but that would be disruptive for someone expecting a business related call from a number not in their contacts.

The issue has to be addressed on the telco routers, not at the end of the line i.e. your phone. When the telcos come to the realization that clearing all this bullshiat from their infrastructure will also save them money, they'll figure it out.
 
2018-02-08 09:03:35 AM  
Nice vocation you have there, riding a Trojan horse into the lives of vulnerable old people so you can rip them off.  Really impressive.
 
2018-02-08 09:04:10 AM  
anyone not in my contact list gets sent to voice mail first ring.  Mr. Number is your friend

mrnumber.comView Full Size
 
2018-02-08 09:04:25 AM  

Scanty Em: The one that pisses me off the most is when it says the call is from my own number. What the hell do they think they're achieving with that?

Second-most are the ones on my work cell phone, a number that *nobody* has outside of my wife and a few coworkers, showing calls from all kinds of numbers not only within my own area code, but with the same first three digits as my number. As if it's, I guess, a neighbor calling.

I have the ultimate weapon against them, though. I have literally one friend, and two relatives, who would ever call me. So I can ignore everything else. If it's anything that matters, they'll leave a message, and if it really matters, they'll send snail mail.

Oh wait I want to change my first most-hated. It's when Pete Roskam calls pretending to be a responsible, adult member of Congress and he starts screaming about that there Obama and these here liberals. The fact that I live in a district where a large majority votes for a cretin like him probably partly explains why I don't have friends.

/partly


A third of the spoofed calls are from "my" number, 867-5309. Another third are from 867-9035. And the rest are from other random numbers in Georgia. They do not know that I left Georgia three years ago.
 
2018-02-08 09:04:41 AM  
I get spoofed calls from my area code pretty frequently.  They usually resemble my phone number.  If I dont recognize it, I dont pick up.

That said apparently a spoofer used my number and I got an angry text from whoever they called accusing me of playing with their phone.  I texted back and I told them I had no idea who they were and that I hadnt called anyone that day.  I wasnt even going to try to explain spoofing via text.
 
2018-02-08 09:05:20 AM  

IamAwake: BizarreMan: The telcos know the true source of the call.

...but they won't tell you.  Had that argument with them many times.


No but they'll certainly tell a Federal prosecutor, which is kind of the point of making it illegal.
 
2018-02-08 09:05:55 AM  

OldJames: The end user that gets called should get a piece of the fine pie.


Go on....
 
2018-02-08 09:06:31 AM  

IamAwake: BizarreMan: The telcos know the true source of the call.

...but they won't tell you.  Had that argument with them many times.

steklo: One of the best features, or apps on my cell phone is that "block caller" feature.

If I don't recognize the caller, I pick up, don't say a word and if I don't hear anyone or if I hear a few clicks and then the sound of people yelling in cubes, I hang up and block the caller.

You clearly don't understand what "caller ID spoofing" means.  They can pretend to be calling from your mother's cell phone, or your wife's, or whatever.


They can't tell you.  If they tell you then you go all psycho on that person they would be liable.  Same reason companies like Amazon won't tell you who sent you that dildo.
 
2018-02-08 09:07:01 AM  
I had the fake IRS people call. Told them I work for the FIB. That's not a crime on my part is it?
 
2018-02-08 09:07:45 AM  
I can't think of a legitimate reason someone would spoof a number (outside of law enforcement under certain circumstances), so if technically feasible then it should be stopped.
 
2018-02-08 09:08:48 AM  

BizarreMan: The telcos know the true source of the call.


They know immediately, too.  The TV cop-show trope that "he didn't stay on the phone long enough" is BS.  The packets carrying the audio from the caller have source IPs, your voice back has to have routing info.  From the first millisecond the call is connected, there's enough information to trace the call back.
 
2018-02-08 09:09:23 AM  

Bowen: Just let me block a whole range of phone numbers. My mobile number is 617-749-xxxx. At least half the spam calls I receive are from that area code and exchange.


I'm using Hiya to do exactly that. There are probably much better apps as well, but I stopped looking at the first one that let me do that.
 
2018-02-08 09:09:42 AM  

BonerMcGivens: I thought you were just playing hard-to-get.....Why won't you talk to me, steklo?!


Please tell me your name isn't Aaron, and trying to tell me I won a free trip to Orlando. I must've gotten his call every day for a week before i found out i could block callers.

Then a week later, a different number calls and its a "Courtney"  calling me with the same offer. So this time, I deiced to see how far we could take this.

Her first question she ask was if I was interested or not. I said, sure! Who DOESN'T want a free trip to Orlando, right?  LOL...Then she asks if I am over 18. I stopped and said, no and the phone gets disconnected.

She called me the following day,. I asked if she remembered me. She didn't and then we did the whole scenario again and that's when I blocked her number.

I normally don't waste my time or theirs when i receive a spam call and just simply hang up and block them.

So, sorry if that was you I hung up on.
 
2018-02-08 09:10:49 AM  

Random Anonymous Blackmail: It isn't telemarketers doing the spoofing.

I got a phone call yesterday from someone saying there was a complaint about me and that I should call this 866 number with a reference.

Yeah.. not a chance.

No I didn't win a free vacation, that was Monday.


Yeah, I used to get the lawsuit complaint one.  I fully expect to get the IRS scammers now that we are in tax season.  What kind of IRS agent wants ITunes gift cards as payment for my debt?
 
2018-02-08 09:11:01 AM  

ltdanman44: anyone not in my contact list gets sent to voice mail first ring.  Mr. Number is your friend

[mrnumber.com image 850x711]


The AT&T app (CallProtect) works pretty well on my personal phone. Unfortunately it doesn't load on my work phone.
 
2018-02-08 09:14:03 AM  

Chemlight Battery: Bowen: Just let me block a whole range of phone numbers. My mobile number is 617-749-xxxx. At least half the spam calls I receive are from that area code and exchange.

I'm using Hiya to do exactly that. There are probably much better apps as well, but I stopped looking at the first one that let me do that.


Thanks, I'll check that out. It looks like the AT&T app is built on Hiya, but blocking a range of numbers doesn't seem to be an option. Count on AT&T to slice out useful features.
 
2018-02-08 09:15:21 AM  

Igor Jakovsky: That said apparently a spoofer used my number and I got an angry text from whoever they called accusing me of playing with their phone. I texted back and I told them I had no idea who they were and that I hadnt called anyone that day. I wasnt even going to try to explain spoofing via text.


Somebody was using my number to make calls.  I received several angry calls from this one guy who kept insisting that I was calling him.  He finally got really angry with my denials and told me he was going to block my number.  Which was totally fine by me.
 
2018-02-08 09:15:36 AM  
I'm sure her campaign doesn't use the same tactics during the election season...

Oh right, they are behind 7 PACs
 
2018-02-08 09:17:03 AM  

Type random string here: BizarreMan: The telcos know the true source of the call.

They know immediately, too.  The TV cop-show trope that "he didn't stay on the phone long enough" is BS.  The packets carrying the audio from the caller have source IPs, your voice back has to have routing info.  From the first millisecond the call is connected, there's enough information to trace the call back....to an IP address which could have been spoofed (behind proxy or other masking).

 
2018-02-08 09:18:11 AM  

Random Anonymous Blackmail: It isn't telemarketers doing the spoofing.

I got a phone call yesterday from someone saying there was a complaint about me and that I should call this 866 number with a reference.

Yeah.. not a chance.

No I didn't win a free vacation, that was Monday.


I got one yesterday that said they were the social security admin and they needed to confirm some info. Because the US government usually calls from a local number...
 
2018-02-08 09:18:14 AM  

wademh: It was going to be my signature issue. I've posted about it before.
Anyway, with a few key add-ons, I'm all for it. Yes, it will put a cramp into VoIP but that can be resolved readily enough. Carrier liable upon multiple complaints/abuses.


Yeah I'm cool with this.  In Networking we can use DHCP Snooping to make sure a packet probably came from the right source.  Telcos should have a list of places from which a particular number can originate a call.  If a source number hits the Telco on an unexpected interface, drop the call.  Heck, VOIP might make this easier in the long run.
 
2018-02-08 09:19:54 AM  

steklo: Who DOESN'T want a free trip to Orlando, right?


I LOL'd =))
 
2018-02-08 09:20:53 AM  

OldJames: pie


As long as there's pie involved.
 
2018-02-08 09:21:35 AM  
Just a quick few points on this:

1)  If you call a number and display the same CID you are calling, for many systems that will auto-take you to vmail.  So if I fake your CID and call you, then I get your vmail login message.  If you don't have a password defined then carriers historically would take you right to your mailbox where you can access/send messages.

2)  Any modern PBX or cloud platform can and CID it wants, and there are actual reasons to allow aspects of this.  Examples would be call forwarding and wanting to retain the CID of the originating party.

3) Cracking into mailboxes on modern systems remains a common practice.  If said system allows fwd'ing and you can change CIDs then you can create an obscurity-obscurity scenario requiring many traces/hops to track origination.

4) Regulating simply to make it illegal for X is a good first step, but completely unenforceable w/o a structure for APIs and access via law enforcement and the legal framework to restrict access/abuse, it is worthless.

5) PBX manufacturers and cloud platforms wouldn't be horribly upset per new requirements (although they will argue on particular methodology) as it is an opportunity to talk w/ the customer and force an upgrade and pay more $.

6) Any ultimate plan to restrict this will have to include layers of culpability for clients, providers, equipment manufacturers, etc. which means that any one of those lobbying against this will cause any real viable solution to fail politically.
 
2018-02-08 09:22:35 AM  
As if that's gonna stop the scammers...
 
2018-02-08 09:27:37 AM  
im not surprised how dim legislators are. she seriously didnt know this was a 'thing' or had a term until it happened to her. what rock has she been living under? how blind to the world must they be? what an ignoramus.
 
2018-02-08 09:31:19 AM  

BizarreMan: The telcos know the true source of the call.


Eh.  A lot of these calls are bounced around and routed through multiple countries who won't share the info with the US and unless it's a matter of national security they won't even try.  On top of that even if they do get it from that one country they'll find it routed through another country that doesn't share and again and again.

My question is what about the legally spoofed caller ID?   Like a business where everyone routes calls out the main number so that direct dials are not exposed?
 
2018-02-08 09:31:19 AM  

Type random string here: BizarreMan: The telcos know the true source of the call.

They know immediately, too.  The TV cop-show trope that "he didn't stay on the phone long enough" is BS.  The packets carrying the audio from the caller have source IPs, your voice back has to have routing info.  From the first millisecond the call is connected, there's enough information to trace the call back.


Not when employ my trace buster!

img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2018-02-08 09:34:29 AM  

BizarreMan: The telcos know the true source of the call.


Of course they do, because they sell the farking service to provide it.

What we really need is not a nomo robo or some other preemptive option but an instant reporting service.

You get a spam or caller id spoofed call immediatly after the call you dial *99 and the entire ANI and call is logged and placed into a federal database. Once a threshold say after 50 calls is reached that line is shut down and investigated.
 
2018-02-08 09:35:02 AM  
I do not answer calls from numbers I don't recognize.  99% of the time I don't answer calls from numbers I do recognize unless I am specifically expecting a call from that number.  Most everyone in my inner circle knows that a text or email is the most reliable way to get my attention.

Got a call from a client just a few days ago, she got a spoofed call that had the number of our main outgoing phone line, they wanted our company to resolve the issue.  Had a nice chat with the client about how we cannot control or prevent other organizations from spoofing any number including our own since the call never originates on our pbx or even travels through it.  Not a thing we can do.
 
2018-02-08 09:35:06 AM  

Bowen: Just let me block a whole range of phone numbers. My mobile number is 617-749-xxxx. At least half the spam calls I receive are from that area code and exchange.


I use Should I Answer? for Android.  It lets you blacklist using wildcards.
 
2018-02-08 09:35:33 AM  

BonerMcGivens: Type random string here: BizarreMan: The telcos know the true source of the call.

They know immediately, too.  The TV cop-show trope that "he didn't stay on the phone long enough" is BS.  The packets carrying the audio from the caller have source IPs, your voice back has to have routing info.  From the first millisecond the call is connected, there's enough information to trace the call back....to an IP address which could have been spoofed (behind proxy or other masking).


Your packets going back to the caller must have routing information - there's no getting around it, even for UDP packets.  If the source/return IP address is spoofed, then the caller wouldn't be able to hear you.

Given sufficient abuse, proxies can be blocked by the telcos, thus encouraging the originating proxy to police itself or other legitimate proxy-users to abandon that proxy.

You forgot to point out that telcos in other countries might not log the call/routing information.
 
2018-02-08 09:36:15 AM  
Aren't there legit uses for spoofing, like from a shelter to protect the identities/whereabouts of their residents? I know I've seen other reasons to allow the spoofing on here that seemed above board as well, I just can't recall. Hopefully, her legislation has appropriate exceptions in it....

Of course she's a politician, so I wouldn't bet on it.
 
2018-02-08 09:37:01 AM  

IQof20: 4) Regulating simply to make it illegal for X is a good first step, but completely unenforceable w/o a structure for APIs and access via law enforcement and the legal framework to restrict access/abuse, it is worthless.


And if you make the carriers liable for the illegal conduct, you'll get those APIs and access faster than you can say "shareholder revolt."

Also, we don't make murder for hire legal because it can be hard to trace who hired the hitman.
 
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