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(Mic)   What's the best way of growing the economy? Cancelling student debt   ( mic.com) divider line
    More: Interesting, Debt, Economy of the United States, Donald Trump  
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1170 clicks; posted to Business » on 08 Feb 2018 at 1:18 AM (23 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2018-02-07 11:48:19 PM  
Best way to grow the economy? Cut taxes.
 
2018-02-08 12:04:49 AM  

Uncle Eazy: Best way to grow the economy? Cut taxes.


Quit smoking that stuff. Charlie Sheen wants his crack pipe back. It's not 1980 any more. Get new economic ideas. If you want to keep cutting taxes, move to Kansas. Oh wait, they farked everything up and are raising taxes again b/c mindlessly cutting taxes is batshiat crazy. Nobody realizes how important government is until it's gone and it turns out you need "services." Yeesh.
 
2018-02-08 12:55:37 AM  
Declare a new Golden Age of Prosperity.
 
2018-02-08 01:09:21 AM  

Uncle Eazy: Best way to grow the economy? Cut taxes.


img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2018-02-08 01:22:26 AM  

Tell Me How My Blog Tastes: Uncle Eazy: Best way to grow the economy? Cut taxes.

Quit smoking that stuff. Charlie Sheen wants his crack pipe back. It's not 1980 any more. Get new economic ideas. If you want to keep cutting taxes, move to Kansas. Oh wait, they farked everything up and are raising taxes again b/c mindlessly cutting taxes is batshiat crazy. Nobody realizes how important government is until it's gone and it turns out you need "services." Yeesh.


There's value to cutting taxes, but the cuts need to be targeted.  Income taxes aren't the only kind of taxes.
 
2018-02-08 01:29:16 AM  

ZZ9 Plural Z Alpha: Uncle Eazy: Best way to grow the economy? Cut taxes.

[img.fark.net image 600x625]


[citation needed]
 
2018-02-08 01:32:38 AM  

Uncle Eazy: Best way to grow the economy? Cut taxes.


Drew, the site's messing up again; posts from decades ago are reappearing randomly.
 
2018-02-08 01:38:33 AM  

Spermbot: ZZ9 Plural Z Alpha: Uncle Eazy: Best way to grow the economy? Cut taxes.

[img.fark.net image 600x625]

[citation needed]


I can't link directly to a pdf from Moody's on Fark because of redirects, but they're easily findable in Google.
 
2018-02-08 01:39:02 AM  
You want to forgive citizens' debt? Who do they think they are corporations?
 
2018-02-08 01:58:39 AM  

Uncle Eazy: Best way to grow the economy? Cut taxes.


Ohhhhhh looky who does not wanna pay for his purty purty military.
 
2018-02-08 02:10:42 AM  

ZZ9 Plural Z Alpha: Spermbot: ZZ9 Plural Z Alpha: Uncle Eazy: Best way to grow the economy? Cut taxes.

[img.fark.net image 600x625]

[citation needed]

I can't link directly to a pdf from Moody's on Fark because of redirects, but they're easily findable in Google.


Which, thanks to your description, I now know what to search for.
 
2018-02-08 04:33:26 AM  
Im pretty sure this is what they was sayin' back in 08/09 about peeps with underwater mortgage. We all know how that turned out.

Only debt that will be forgiven in this country is corporate debt. The boot strappy gene in America is too strong to forgive individuals in unfortunate financial circumstances.
 
2018-02-08 06:36:54 AM  
Give it enough time and someone will go Mr. Robot.  Too many companies cheaping out cyber security until after a hack
 
2018-02-08 06:43:48 AM  
Cool.  If they do this can I get back all the money I repaid already?  I mean it's only fair, right?  If I knew they were going to do something like this, I would have gone to a much more expensive school and just not paid any of my loans back.  Stupid me for being financially responsible.
 
2018-02-08 07:20:49 AM  

Spermbot: ZZ9 Plural Z Alpha: Spermbot: ZZ9 Plural Z Alpha: Uncle Eazy: Best way to grow the economy? Cut taxes.

[img.fark.net image 600x625]

[citation needed]

I can't link directly to a pdf from Moody's on Fark because of redirects, but they're easily findable in Google.

Which, thanks to your description, I now know what to search for.


That or one could look at the "Source: Mark Zandi from Moody's Economy.com" part of the post.
 
2018-02-08 07:53:59 AM  

debug: Cool.  If they do this can I get back all the money I repaid already?  I mean it's only fair, right?  If I knew they were going to do something like this, I would have gone to a much more expensive school and just not paid any of my loans back.  Stupid me for being financially responsible.


If you want to be fair, do I get a block grant to go back and finish? I could no longer afford to finish and had to drop out and get a job paying taxes to subsidize the interest on those who chose to sign up for student loans. I thought I was being responsible in not taking on debt, but if they are talking about forgiving student loans, I guess I was the stupid one.
 
2018-02-08 08:02:52 AM  

Uncle Eazy: Best way to grow the economy? Cut taxes.


Cargo culters are make us ride this all the way to the bottom, aren't they?
 
2018-02-08 08:05:26 AM  

bhcompy: Tell Me How My Blog Tastes: Uncle Eazy: Best way to grow the economy? Cut taxes.

Quit smoking that stuff. Charlie Sheen wants his crack pipe back. It's not 1980 any more. Get new economic ideas. If you want to keep cutting taxes, move to Kansas. Oh wait, they farked everything up and are raising taxes again b/c mindlessly cutting taxes is batshiat crazy. Nobody realizes how important government is until it's gone and it turns out you need "services." Yeesh.

There's value to cutting taxes, but the cuts need to be targeted.  Income taxes aren't the only kind of taxes.


If you're cutting the top rate from 90% to 60%, I'll listen. When you're cutting individual and corporate rates when the economy is at full employment, when future econ majors will ask their professors "what the hell were Republicans thinking cutting taxes when it can only blow a hole in the federal budget, raise interest rates (and the cost of government borrowing, which they're increasing) and raise inflation?"

And the professor will say "they were out of their cotton-picking minds." This is sheer insanity.
 
2018-02-08 08:10:13 AM  
...$1.2 trillion - the current more-or-less amount of student debt - is WAY too much money to just cancel, especially when so much of it is held by the Feds.  Refinance?  Yeah.  Include in bankruptcies?  Definitely.  But the only way I'd support a full dress cancellation (and I pay on my wife's student debt, so I have a dog, albeit a small one, in this fight) is that they burn the current system to the ground and start over.
 
2018-02-08 08:24:25 AM  

ZZ9 Plural Z Alpha: Uncle Eazy: Best way to grow the economy? Cut taxes.

[img.fark.net image 600x625]


If I remember right, infrastructure spending depends on the current unemployment rate, for what it returns per dollar spent.
 
2018-02-08 08:35:16 AM  
Listen, listen...LISTEN! The only workable solution is to INCREASE student debt by raising interest rates, ending all public service forgiveness programs, and adding capital punishment for default with no provision for bankruptcy to the statutes. Only then Betsy DeVos and other investors in debt collection companies realize more shareholder value, which will trickle down into the economy at large more quickly and aggressively than any tax cut could ever hope to match. It'd be like the GOP's tax reform on steroids! In fact, it would work so well, and so fast, that we may not want to try it only because the economy would become so strong that we could no longer control it.
 
2018-02-08 08:39:09 AM  

capn' fun: Listen, listen...LISTEN! The only workable solution is to INCREASE student debt by raising interest rates, ending all public service forgiveness programs, and adding capital punishment for default with no provision for bankruptcy to the statutes. Only then Betsy DeVos and other investors in debt collection companies realize more shareholder value, which will trickle down into the economy at large more quickly and aggressively than any tax cut could ever hope to match. It'd be like the GOP's tax reform on steroids! In fact, it would work so well, and so fast, that we may not want to try it only because the economy would become so strong that we could no longer control it.


Someone has probably said exactly this.
 
2018-02-08 08:39:42 AM  

Al Tsheimers: debug: Cool.  If they do this can I get back all the money I repaid already?  I mean it's only fair, right?  If I knew they were going to do something like this, I would have gone to a much more expensive school and just not paid any of my loans back.  Stupid me for being financially responsible.

If you want to be fair, do I get a block grant to go back and finish? I could no longer afford to finish and had to drop out and get a job paying taxes to subsidize the interest on those who chose to sign up for student loans. I thought I was being responsible in not taking on debt, but if they are talking about forgiving student loans, I guess I was the stupid one.


And, welcome to the difference between what's better for an individual, and what's better for a society.
 
2018-02-08 09:01:52 AM  

BalugaJoe: Declare a new Golden Age of Prosperity.


It's amazing how the mines just fill up again.
 
2018-02-08 09:14:30 AM  

tjsands1118: You want to forgive citizens' debt? Who do they think they are corporations?

The really stupid thing about living in a corporatocracy is that it's not as if the corporations lose out in the long run or even the short run.  Free up all the recent grads from debt and they'll use the money to consume so the money all winds up back in the same place anyway, except the economy now really is demand-driven, so there's real incentive to invest instead of just chasing volatility in the markets.

American business is really, really, REALLY dumb.
 
2018-02-08 09:14:43 AM  

loser0: Declare a new Golden Age of Prosperity.


Does anyone have a Great Artist or Great Prophet to spare?
 
2018-02-08 09:25:09 AM  
Student loans are becoming the subprime loans of the this decade.

"Higher education is too expensive!"

"Let's have the free market correct it1"

"Nah, let the universities charge their over valued tuitions, we'll just make it easier to stick students with crippling debt"

fark the uni's  and the likes of Elizabeth Warren
 
2018-02-08 09:52:39 AM  
I had student loans, and yeah, it took 10+ years to pay off. I'm not a huge fan of the debt but, arguably, doesn't that just shift the burden of the debt one tier up? The companies that loaned that money, loathsome as they may be, can't be expected to just absorb all that.

Instead, let's talk about why higher education costs so much. We can teach a highschool student for roughly $6000-$12000 per year (check local listings) for ~13 years. Why, then, does it cost $60,000 to teach them in their 14th year? Faculty costs? Most classes in your first two years are not taught by professors (TA or adjunct). Cost of books? Well, books are expensive, but they aren't covered by tuition. Typically lab costs or additional material is charged independently, so that's not it. If a college or university does research, it typically only gets done if it pays for itself, or brings in a profit.

Now let's look at salaries for executives at the colleges. The average public college president earned just over $428,000 in 2014. When I went to college, our president was at all the sporting events. Ate lunch in our cafeterias, etc. You know who else was? I was! And I didn't get paid $.5M to do it. He literally served no purpose. It's a vanity position. Board members range from $60,000-$140,000/year each. All they really do is decide when to replace the president. Most schools' sports programs are a net loss, but "promoting the school has a value". What? To attract students to pay for the sports program that attracts students to pay for the sports program?
 
2018-02-08 10:04:26 AM  

RobotSpider: I had student loans, and yeah, it took 10+ years to pay off. I'm not a huge fan of the debt but, arguably, doesn't that just shift the burden of the debt one tier up? The companies that loaned that money, loathsome as they may be, can't be expected to just absorb all that.


Seems like there could be a middle ground.  Something to the effect of if you have paid at least 105% of the principle of the original loan, the remainder of the outstanding loan is vacated.
 
2018-02-08 10:20:35 AM  

RobotSpider: Instead, let's talk about why higher education costs so much.


You missed all the education subsidies that used to exist for colleges that's been eroded down to virtually nothing in some states. The difference is made up by the student.

Not saying colleges aren't horrendously bad with money. I have yet to meet a large organization that wasn't, but colleges used to have a vastly different funding model.
 
2018-02-08 10:27:36 AM  
I have $84,000 left on my dental school loans (Started at $192,000).  I'd be very happy if someone canceled my remaining debt.
 
2018-02-08 10:30:07 AM  
Best way to grow the economy?  Raise the minimum wage to a living wage and have single payer health care.
 
2018-02-08 10:53:06 AM  

Kittypie070: Uncle Eazy: Best way to grow the economy? Cut taxes.

Ohhhhhh looky who does not wanna pay for his purty purty military.


Corporations are people; people are consumers.

If you can't consume, we assume you've died.
 
2018-02-08 10:58:34 AM  

Bovine Diarrhea Virus: I have $84,000 left on my dental school loans (Started at $192,000).  I'd be very happy if someone canceled my remaining debt.


Sorry, but your classmate who paid off their $192,000 because they had a wealthy relative pass away and inherited a windfall would feel bad about that, so you and the many like you will just have to suffer until our economy collapses one way or another from the collective debt.
 
2018-02-08 11:45:09 AM  

Sophont: RobotSpider: Instead, let's talk about why higher education costs so much.

You missed all the education subsidies that used to exist for colleges that's been eroded down to virtually nothing in some states. The difference is made up by the student.

Not saying colleges aren't horrendously bad with money. I have yet to meet a large organization that wasn't, but colleges used to have a vastly different funding model.


There's a legit argument that universities have grown non-educational staff by huge amounts without having hired more tenured professors.

From 2014:
Part-time faculty and teaching assistants now account for half of instructional staffs at colleges and universities, up from one-third in 1987, the figures show.
During the same period, the number of administrators and professional staff has more than doubled. That's a rate of increase more than twice as fast as the growth in the number of students.
...
The ratio of nonacademic employees to faculty has also doubled. There are now two nonacademic employees at public and two and a half at private universities and colleges for every one full-time, tenure-track member of the faculty.
 
2018-02-08 11:56:44 AM  

RobotSpider: I had student loans, and yeah, it took 10+ years to pay off. I'm not a huge fan of the debt but, arguably, doesn't that just shift the burden of the debt one tier up? The companies that loaned that money, loathsome as they may be, can't be expected to just absorb all that.

Instead, let's talk about why higher education costs so much. We can teach a highschool student for roughly $6000-$12000 per year (check local listings) for ~13 years. Why, then, does it cost $60,000 to teach them in their 14th year? Faculty costs? Most classes in your first two years are not taught by professors (TA or adjunct). Cost of books? Well, books are expensive, but they aren't covered by tuition. Typically lab costs or additional material is charged independently, so that's not it. If a college or university does research, it typically only gets done if it pays for itself, or brings in a profit.

Now let's look at salaries for executives at the colleges. The average public college president earned just over $428,000 in 2014. When I went to college, our president was at all the sporting events. Ate lunch in our cafeterias, etc. You know who else was? I was! And I didn't get paid $.5M to do it. He literally served no purpose. It's a vanity position. Board members range from $60,000-$140,000/year each. All they really do is decide when to replace the president. Most schools' sports programs are a net loss, but "promoting the school has a value". What? To attract students to pay for the sports program that attracts students to pay for the sports program?


Maybe if someone went to highschool for 13 years, they're not college material?
 
2018-02-08 12:24:19 PM  
RobotSpider:
Now let's look at salaries for executives at the colleges. The average public college president earned just over $428,000 in 2014. When I went to college, our president was at all the sporting events. Ate lunch in our cafeterias, etc. You know who else was? I was! And I didn't get paid $.5M to do it. He literally served no purpose. It's a vanity position. Board members range from $60,000-$140,000/year each. All they really do is decide when to replace the president. Most schools' sports programs are a net loss, but "promoting the school has a value". What? To attract students to pay for the sports program that attracts students to pay for the sports program?

But so many of these schools are suffering financially! I mean, just look at all those construction cranes on campus. Er, I mean, don't look at those cranes. We don't have any money to spend on new stuff. Those cranes are just, uh, modern art. Yeah, that's the ticket, modern art sculptures.

/ recently did a Google street view of my old dorm at Ohio State
// There were five construction cranes visible from the front of the dorm, all in different locations
 
2018-02-08 12:29:56 PM  

obenchainr: Sophont: RobotSpider: Instead, let's talk about why higher education costs so much.

You missed all the education subsidies that used to exist for colleges that's been eroded down to virtually nothing in some states. The difference is made up by the student.

Not saying colleges aren't horrendously bad with money. I have yet to meet a large organization that wasn't, but colleges used to have a vastly different funding model.

There's a legit argument that universities have grown non-educational staff by huge amounts without having hired more tenured professors.

From 2014:
Part-time faculty and teaching assistants now account for half of instructional staffs at colleges and universities, up from one-third in 1987, the figures show.
During the same period, the number of administrators and professional staff has more than doubled. That's a rate of increase more than twice as fast as the growth in the number of students.
...
The ratio of nonacademic employees to faculty has also doubled. There are now two nonacademic employees at public and two and a half at private universities and colleges for every one full-time, tenure-track member of the faculty.


I wasn't trying to invalidate any of his points. I was merely asking him not to forget another large contributing factor. From my experience working at my college's dining hall, the administrative staff could have been cut by about 3/4 with no effect on the day-to-day running of the place. Every dining hall on the campus had its own administrative staff like it was a separate company/restaurant. A dining hall, snack stop, and coffee shop, all run by the college, all in the same farking building, had their own management structures.
 
2018-02-08 01:48:52 PM  

Tell Me How My Blog Tastes: bhcompy: Tell Me How My Blog Tastes: Uncle Eazy: Best way to grow the economy? Cut taxes.

Quit smoking that stuff. Charlie Sheen wants his crack pipe back. It's not 1980 any more. Get new economic ideas. If you want to keep cutting taxes, move to Kansas. Oh wait, they farked everything up and are raising taxes again b/c mindlessly cutting taxes is batshiat crazy. Nobody realizes how important government is until it's gone and it turns out you need "services." Yeesh.

There's value to cutting taxes, but the cuts need to be targeted. Income taxes aren't the only kind of taxes.

If you're cutting the top rate from 90% to 60%, I'll listen. When you're cutting individual and corporate rates when the economy is at full employment, when future econ majors will ask their professors "what the hell were Republicans thinking cutting taxes when it can only blow a hole in the federal budget, raise interest rates (and the cost of government borrowing, which they're increasing) and raise inflation?"

And the professor will say "they were out of their cotton-picking minds." This is sheer insanity.


I completely agree.  That doesn't affect my argument, though.  Like I said, targeted tax cuts can help the economy(or simply just help people make ends meet, which in turn helps the economy).  There's way more to taxation than income taxes.  There are plenty of regressive taxes that have an inordinate affect on those that need every penny, and it's in our best interest economically to keep those people off costly support programs as they are currently structured.
 
2018-02-08 03:38:26 PM  
As long we are giving away free money, how about canceling my house and car payment?

Then I'll have more money to put into the economy too.
 
2018-02-08 06:41:54 PM  
Maybe it would help if they linked to the actual study, but I'm having a hard time coming to grips with the numbers presented in this link.  In particular:
The report also finds that total loan forgiveness would cost the U.S. government approximately $1.4 trillion over the course of 10 yearsandThe report finds that canceling all student debt would likely lead to an increase in U.S. GDP between $861 billion and $1,083 billion over the course of 10 years.That sounds like a pretty substantial loss to me.  What am I missing?  Also:It would also lead to an increase of 1.18 to 1.55 million additional new jobs over the same period.How is eliminating student loan debt going to create new jobs?  If that's explained, I missed it.  This whole article just raises more questions than it answers.  I suspect the writer of the article didn't have a full understanding of the study and couldn't adequately articulate the specifics. I'm assuming that the intent is to have the federal government pay off the student loans as opposed to the financial institutions that loaned the money absorbing the losses, but that's not explicitly stated.  And while we're at it, comparatively what would be the impact of cancelling other forms of debt?  Credit cards, car loans, mortgages....
 
2018-02-08 10:16:25 PM  

AtlanticCoast63: Include in bankruptcies?  Definitely.


If we are going to allow student loan debt to be dischargeable in bankruptcy, then we are going to have to put time limits on one's ability to declare bankruptcy after taking on said loan and also cease federal subsidization of student loans.

I think the best remedy is for loan lenders to not be subsidized.  This will cause lenders to no being willing to give money out to everybody.
 
2018-02-09 01:23:53 AM  
ponderingprinciples.comView Full Size
 
2018-02-09 08:49:51 AM  
My opening comment was meant as snark, but turned into:

img.fark.netView Full Size
 
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