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(Yahoo)   Two takeaways of the Josh McDaniel fiasco: is A) McDaniels has burned any chance he has of being offered any other head coaching job outside of New England, and B) He REALLY screwed a LOT of assistants and coaches he already hired   ( sports.yahoo.com) divider line
    More: Followup, National Football League, Indianapolis Colts, McDaniels, Bill Belichick, New England Patriots, coach Josh McDaniels, Josh McDaniels, New York Jets  
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1506 clicks; posted to Sports » on 07 Feb 2018 at 3:35 PM (22 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2018-02-07 03:31:03 PM  
s-i.huffpost.comView Full Size
 
2018-02-07 03:38:08 PM  
 
2018-02-07 03:43:24 PM  
I sympathize with the Colts, but only a little. They knew they were playing with fire when they agreed to hire a well-known asshole and cheater. It just came back to bite them faster than they expected.
 
2018-02-07 03:52:44 PM  
McDaniel's reaction upon reading this article:

img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2018-02-07 03:58:32 PM  
The fact that McDaniels was even being considered for a head-coach job in the first place indicates desperation on the part of the Colts.

The NFL, like many other sports leagues, has far more teams than talent. League contraction is long overdue.
 
2018-02-07 03:59:21 PM  

Super Chronic: I sympathize with the Colts, but only a little. They knew they were playing with fire when they agreed to hire a well-known asshole and cheater. It just came back to bite them faster than they expected.


If he was promised the Pats HC job in a year or two, he's also a damned fool. Two or three years of okay, but not great records, and he's done.
 
2018-02-07 04:02:28 PM  
Just wait to check out Josh's shocked look when Bob Kraft announces Chip Kelly to replace Belichick.
 
2018-02-07 04:04:59 PM  
It would be amusing if Belichick retires and they hire someone else as HC, breaking the verbal agreement with McDouche.
 
2018-02-07 04:09:21 PM  
Why would anyone expect a professional football coach to worry about things like integrity or ethics?
 
2018-02-07 04:10:54 PM  
I'd be amazed if he didn't get some pay or play language in place.  Sure, you can hire another head coach, but you have to pay me.
 
2018-02-07 04:16:19 PM  

Mercutio879: Super Chronic: I sympathize with the Colts, but only a little. They knew they were playing with fire when they agreed to hire a well-known asshole and cheater. It just came back to bite them faster than they expected.

If he was promised the Pats HC job in a year or two, he's also a damned fool. Two or three years of okay, but not great records, and he's done.


If he ends up getting it, the Pats without Brady, Gronk, and Belichick are going to be a shadow of their former selves.  The Pats were mediocre to bad before Belichick came along.
 
2018-02-07 04:17:53 PM  
Wow. The butthurt is strong in TFA.

For a, other coaches have made the same flip-flop and it didn't kill their careers.

For b, what assistants? How many hires did he do in the 6 or so hours he was head coach?

And all over, TFA assumes Colts is some great job. It isn't. The owner is a pill addict, and Luke can't toss the ball without getting hurt.
 
2018-02-07 04:24:21 PM  

phimuskapsi: He also lost his agent:

https://deadspin.com/josh-mcdanielss-a​gent-drops-him-after-colts-fiasco-1822​809446


Nice
 
2018-02-07 04:25:12 PM  

mcmnky: Wow. The butthurt is strong in TFA.

For a, other coaches have made the same flip-flop and it didn't kill their careers.

For b, what assistants? How many hires did he do in the 6 or so hours he was head coach?

And all over, TFA assumes Colts is some great job. It isn't. The owner is a pill addict, and Luke can't toss the ball without getting hurt.


A) The only other coach that I can recall that flip-flopped within hours of signing was BB.
B) He hired/convinced 3-4 assistants, this info is out there.
 
2018-02-07 04:25:34 PM  

mcmnky: Wow. The butthurt is strong in TFA.

For a, other coaches have made the same flip-flop and it didn't kill their careers.

For b, what assistants? How many hires did he do in the 6 or so hours he was head coach?

And all over, TFA assumes Colts is some great job. It isn't. The owner is a pill addict, and Luke can't toss the ball without getting hurt.


For a, which other coaches?  Belichick did it and was hired by the Patriots where he's been ever since.

For b, at least three, possibly four depending on what he told the Patriots QB coach who was rumored to be his OC in Indianapolis.

While Irsay is a pill head, what part of his ownership of the team indicates that he's a bad owner?  Plenty of players have been cut, quit or whatever by the team; not a beep of a bad word about Irsay though.
 
2018-02-07 04:26:20 PM  

mcmnky: Wow. The butthurt is strong in TFA.

For a, other coaches have made the same flip-flop and it didn't kill their careers.

For b, what assistants? How many hires did he do in the 6 or so hours he was head coach?

And all over, TFA assumes Colts is some great job. It isn't. The owner is a pill addict, and Luke can't toss the ball without getting hurt.


Can't speak to the number of coaches in A, but the only one that comes to my head is Belichick, who probably pissed off a lot of other NFL teams when he did quit the Jets after a day. We just didn't hear about it.

For B, the Colts were already setting up his assistants while the Patriots were in the playoffs. The big name was former Dallas LB coach, Eberflus, who'd already signed to be the DC in Indy. I think there were several others. Indy says they are going to honor the contracts (they kind of have to, coach contracts are fully guaranteed when the ink dries), but HCs are generally allowed to bring in their own staff. It's entirely possible they hire Lovie Smith (or whoever), and he comes in and fires everybody.
 
2018-02-07 04:29:27 PM  

phimuskapsi: He also lost his agent:

https://deadspin.com/josh-mcdanielss-a​gent-drops-him-after-colts-fiasco-1822​809446


Per other stories, McDaniels and LaMonte have broken up and gotten back together numerous times over the years, take that for whatever it's worth.
 
2018-02-07 04:30:50 PM  
Not be BSABSGoPatriots guy, but the Colts are equally ridiculous in all of this. There had been rumors (albeit not super widely reported nor believed at the time) for over two weeks now that McDaniels was having "second thoughts" about taking any HC job for next season, which we can now likely surmise was basically douchespeak for "let me wait until the last possible second to see what kind of salary increase I can get from Robert Kraft". For the Colts to somehow read this entire situation as "oh, let's make a formal announcement of the hire on Twitter and schedule a press conference on the next day BEFORE he's actually signed the contract, because that'll totally shame him into just outright accepting the offer" is complete idiocy on their part.

That said, McDaniels absolutely deserves whatever heaps of sh*t he is getting, and will continue to get, for playing this out so poorly.
 
2018-02-07 04:36:48 PM  

Killer Cars: Not be BSABSGoPatriots guy, but the Colts are equally ridiculous in all of this. There had been rumors (albeit not super widely reported nor believed at the time) for over two weeks now that McDaniels was having "second thoughts" about taking any HC job for next season, which we can now likely surmise was basically douchespeak for "let me wait until the last possible second to see what kind of salary increase I can get from Robert Kraft". For the Colts to somehow read this entire situation as "oh, let's make a formal announcement of the hire on Twitter and schedule a press conference on the next day BEFORE he's actually signed the contract, because that'll totally shame him into just outright accepting the offer" is complete idiocy on their part.

That said, McDaniels absolutely deserves whatever heaps of sh*t he is getting, and will continue to get, for playing this out so poorly.


Apparently, the Colts had 2 or 3 other HC candidates lined up for interviews almost immediately. They knew he could pull out. But, when you have a handshake deal, and the guy is driving to his office to clean it out, and he's said he'll be on the jet at the airport, that's a pretty fair indication that he's on his way over. At what point do you announce it? When the contract is signed? He could pull a Belichick and use his introduction conference to answer questions about the napkin he just resigned on.
 
2018-02-07 04:39:03 PM  

Slackfumasta: McDaniel's reaction upon reading this article:

[img.fark.net image 500x341]


Ummm head coaches make more than coordinators....
 
2018-02-07 04:40:10 PM  
My take on this is that there can only be one reason... Belichick is out and they are making McDaniels head coach of the patriots.
 
2018-02-07 04:41:00 PM  

Mercutio879: At what point do you announce it? When the contract is signed?


And not a picosecond before
 
2018-02-07 04:41:15 PM  

mcmnky: For a, other coaches have made the same flip-flop and it didn't kill their careers.


The one other HC was Bill.  He didn't already have "destroy a team such that only PFM can fix it" on his resume.
 
2018-02-07 04:41:26 PM  

dwrash: My take on this is that there can only be one reason... Belichick is out and they are making McDaniels head coach of the patriots.


Not this year, and maybe not next either
 
2018-02-07 04:42:01 PM  

Killer Cars: Not be BSABSGoPatriots guy, but the Colts are equally ridiculous in all of this. There had been rumors (albeit not super widely reported nor believed at the time) for over two weeks now that McDaniels was having "second thoughts" about taking any HC job for next season, which we can now likely surmise was basically douchespeak for "let me wait until the last possible second to see what kind of salary increase I can get from Robert Kraft". For the Colts to somehow read this entire situation as "oh, let's make a formal announcement of the hire on Twitter and schedule a press conference on the next day BEFORE he's actually signed the contract, because that'll totally shame him into just outright accepting the offer" is complete idiocy on their part.

That said, McDaniels absolutely deserves whatever heaps of sh*t he is getting, and will continue to get, for playing this out so poorly.


The stories are that he gave the Colts a firm commitment to the job on Monday and that's when planning and logistics for the announcement Wednesday started.  Then he called Ballard Tuesday night and said "I've got some bad news" and Ballard simply asked him if he was in or out and McDaniels beat around the bush before saying he was out.  I simply don't see how the Colts look bad about this.  They took a guy at his word that he was taking the job, he then likely used that against his current employers for better pay.  The only person looking bad here is McDaniels.
 
2018-02-07 04:42:23 PM  

Mercutio879: He could pull a Belichick and use his introduction conference to answer questions about the napkin he just resigned on.


He probably should've done so, just to go Full Dick. He's already 98.7% of the way there.

I'm probably being too harsh on the Colts here, but that division of their is suddenly tough (assuming the Jags have seriously turned a corner, Watson gets back healthy for the Texans, and the Titans at least stay aggressively mediocre), and their franchise QB apparently has his throwing shoulder being held together with a clothespin. Short of the Browns, I can't think of another franchise right now that really can't assume anything, as virtually any 11th hour offer from anyone can turn a candidate's head right now.
 
2018-02-07 04:46:02 PM  

Mercutio879: Can't speak to the number of coaches in A, but the only one that comes to my head is Belichick, who probably pissed off a lot of other NFL teams when he did quit the Jets after a day. We just didn't hear about it.


Belichick's mentor Parcells did it too with Tampa (had a handshake deal, then backed out), although not to the extent of "they hired assistant coaches in reliance on his word" the way this happened with McDaniel. But Parcells had won Super Bowls, so of course he got hired for another job anyway in a couple of years. Belichick still has the job he jilted the Jets for. McDaniel, on the other hand, was a failure of a head coach previously and already has a dicey rep. That rep is mud for good around the league, he better be great with the Pats or I guess maybe some cruddy college team might hire him if the Pats fire him because the NFL won't.
 
2018-02-07 04:50:58 PM  

Super Chronic: I sympathize with the Colts, but only a little. They knew they were playing with fire when they agreed to hire a well-known asshole and cheater. It just came back to bite them faster than they expected.


Nah, I sympathize with the coaches that were hired but otherwise I despise the Colts organization.
 
2018-02-07 04:51:21 PM  
He will become the head coach the Patriots deserve.

I kind of like that the Patriots are finally becoming more transparent in their douchebaggery though.
 
2018-02-07 04:54:24 PM  

Killer Cars: Mercutio879: He could pull a Belichick and use his introduction conference to answer questions about the napkin he just resigned on.

He probably should've done so, just to go Full Dick. He's already 98.7% of the way there.

I'm probably being too harsh on the Colts here, but that division of their is suddenly tough (assuming the Jags have seriously turned a corner, Watson gets back healthy for the Texans, and the Titans at least stay aggressively mediocre), and their franchise QB apparently has his throwing shoulder being held together with a clothespin. Short of the Browns, I can't think of another franchise right now that really can't assume anything, as virtually any 11th hour offer from anyone can turn a candidate's head right now.


I think the Jags have turned the corner. It wasn't a sudden transformation like the Falcons in the late 90s. It was a slow building process, getting all the right pieces into place. The Texans with Watson should scare anybody and the Titans have looked close for several years. The Colts are not a prime team to restart your career with, but I'm sure McDouche was thinking he'd be the Colts savior. Luck's health is certainly an issue, you can't play for a year with severe damage and not make it worse. I'm honestly surprised he hasn't demanded a trade.
 
2018-02-07 04:56:23 PM  
Maybe the NFL needs to just stop this stupid "you can't negotiate with coaches that are still on teams whose season hasn't ended" policy while at the same time turning a bling eye to that exact thing, as long as a contract isn't signed.  If the NFL let him sign the contract 3 weeks ago, he would have done it and be gone from the Pats.

So either stop pretending you don't allow it and let them sign, or ENFORCE YOUR OWN POLICY and don't let them negotiate with another team until the season is over.
 
2018-02-07 04:58:43 PM  
But for McDaniels, the most lucrative subtext will simply be that he must have some kind of guarantee in place to succeed Belichick in New England. And maybe he does. But that doesn't change the merciless nature of what he has done. Nor will it repair the still-unforeseen damage this moment has caused for the Colts. Not only did Indianapolis lose out on its other preferred candidate - former Houston Texans defensive coordinator Mike Vrabel, who took the top job with the Tennessee Titans - it will now strap its next head coach with some of McDaniels' chosen assistants. At best, that's the definition of awkward. At worst, it's a recipe for future dysfunction.

Christ, what a whiny b*tch.

If they wanted Vrabel so much, they could've just hired him instead of waiting on McDaniels.

Teams and organizations give zero f*cks about commitments or loyalty on their end; crying about it when a player or coach changes his mind is pathetic.
 
2018-02-07 05:00:38 PM  

Crewmannumber6: Why would anyone expect a professional football coach to worry about things like integrity or ethics?


coaches take after the owners

c.o0bg.comView Full Size
 
2018-02-07 05:03:13 PM  
Maybe his intent was never to sign and he specifically wanted to screw over the Colts and those assisstant coaches to let Kraft know he was an obedient minion
 
2018-02-07 05:05:44 PM  

biggamehickman: Maybe the NFL needs to just stop this stupid "you can't negotiate with coaches that are still on teams whose season hasn't ended" policy while at the same time turning a bling eye to that exact thing, as long as a contract isn't signed.  If the NFL let him sign the contract 3 weeks ago, he would have done it and be gone from the Pats.

So either stop pretending you don't allow it and let them sign, or ENFORCE YOUR OWN POLICY and don't let them negotiate with another team until the season is over.


That isn't a policy.  It's more like a specific team saying "don't bother our coach right now we have the playoffs to deal with"
 
2018-02-07 05:06:16 PM  

biggamehickman: Maybe the NFL needs to just stop this stupid "you can't negotiate with coaches that are still on teams whose season hasn't ended" policy while at the same time turning a bling eye to that exact thing, as long as a contract isn't signed.  If the NFL let him sign the contract 3 weeks ago, he would have done it and be gone from the Pats.

So either stop pretending you don't allow it and let them sign, or ENFORCE YOUR OWN POLICY and don't let them negotiate with another team until the season is over.


Yeah, just make it the rule that everyone has to wait until after the Super Bowl.

Players can't switch teams during the playoffs, why do they let coaches do it?
 
2018-02-07 05:13:49 PM  
All these Patriots threads and no Ryan Shazier thread? Come on Fark, that's a good story.
 
2018-02-07 05:24:35 PM  

SirDigbyChickenCaesar: biggamehickman: Maybe the NFL needs to just stop this stupid "you can't negotiate with coaches that are still on teams whose season hasn't ended" policy while at the same time turning a bling eye to that exact thing, as long as a contract isn't signed.  If the NFL let him sign the contract 3 weeks ago, he would have done it and be gone from the Pats.

So either stop pretending you don't allow it and let them sign, or ENFORCE YOUR OWN POLICY and don't let them negotiate with another team until the season is over.

That isn't a policy.  It's more like a specific team saying "don't bother our coach right now we have the playoffs to deal with"


No, its an NFL rule, like the also pointless Rooney Rule
 
2018-02-07 05:25:02 PM  

biggamehickman: Maybe the NFL needs to just stop this stupid "you can't negotiate with coaches that are still on teams whose season hasn't ended" policy while at the same time turning a bling eye to that exact thing, as long as a contract isn't signed.  If the NFL let him sign the contract 3 weeks ago, he would have done it and be gone from the Pats.

So either stop pretending you don't allow it and let them sign, or ENFORCE YOUR OWN POLICY and don't let them negotiate with another team until the season is over.


This.  if need be amend the rules to make it clear and unambiguous  that until  the super bowl is concluded no coaches on any other team can be approached to offer a job with another team.    this should include HC, OC,DC and on down the line.   I would also include GM in this as well.    if they got fired then this does not apply.
 
2018-02-07 05:31:49 PM  
It's the Patriots way.
 
2018-02-07 05:33:34 PM  
Despite what anyone thinks of McDaniels, this is on the Colts for announcing his hire before his name was on the line that is dotted.
 
2018-02-07 05:35:56 PM  

squidloe: All these Patriots threads and no Ryan Shazier thread? Come on Fark, that's a good story.


There is one. Or maybe a submitted link that got redlit. I dunno. Saw his name earlier today in a Fark headline.
 
2018-02-07 05:42:26 PM  

Mercutio879: mcmnky: Wow. The butthurt is strong in TFA.

For a, other coaches have made the same flip-flop and it didn't kill their careers.

For b, what assistants? How many hires did he do in the 6 or so hours he was head coach?

And all over, TFA assumes Colts is some great job. It isn't. The owner is a pill addict, and Luke can't toss the ball without getting hurt.

Can't speak to the number of coaches in A, but the only one that comes to my head is Belichick, who probably pissed off a lot of other NFL teams when he did quit the Jets after a day. We just didn't hear about it.

For B, the Colts were already setting up his assistants while the Patriots were in the playoffs. The big name was former Dallas LB coach, Eberflus, who'd already signed to be the DC in Indy. I think there were several others. Indy says they are going to honor the contracts (they kind of have to, coach contracts are fully guaranteed when the ink dries), but HCs are generally allowed to bring in their own staff. It's entirely possible they hire Lovie Smith (or whoever), and he comes in and fires everybody.


There were 3 coaches signed.  Eberflus who you mentioned, one is Mike Phair, a Lovie Smith guy, and he'd stay if that happened.

The other is Dave Deguglielmo, who coincidentally did the same exact thing to UMaryland 6 years ago as an offensive line coach.
 
2018-02-07 05:44:38 PM  

John Buck 41: Despite what anyone thinks of McDaniels, this is on the Colts for announcing his hire before his name was on the line that is dotted.


No, it's not.  They were told Monday night that he was taking the job.  He could have simply told them at that point that he was having second thoughts.  This is squarely on the shoulders of the guy who took a job and backed out.
 
2018-02-07 05:45:15 PM  

squidloe: All these Patriots threads and no Ryan Shazier thread? Come on Fark, that's a good story.


Like this one?
 
2018-02-07 05:53:46 PM  

Killer Cars: "oh, let's make a formal announcement of the hire on Twitter and schedule a press conference on the next day BEFORE he's actually signed the contract, because that'll totally shame him into just outright accepting the offer"


That is my theory.

Colts are idiots for announcing before he actually signed.
 
2018-02-07 05:59:16 PM  

TedDalton: Killer Cars: "oh, let's make a formal announcement of the hire on Twitter and schedule a press conference on the next day BEFORE he's actually signed the contract, because that'll totally shame him into just outright accepting the offer"

That is my theory.

Colts are idiots for announcing before he actually signed.


He told them Monday he was taking the job.  That's when coaches began to sign their contracts to work with him.  How is this so difficult to understand? McDaniels told the Colts he was taking the job and backed out.  They didn't suspect he was going to take it.  They didn't plan the press conference to convince him.  He had accepted it.  The Colts acted no differently than any other franchise would have, or has.
 
2018-02-07 06:01:53 PM  

phimuskapsi: squidloe: All these Patriots threads and no Ryan Shazier thread? Come on Fark, that's a good story.

Like this one?


That's a news report, not a Fark thread.
 
2018-02-07 06:02:08 PM  

John Buck 41: Despite what anyone thinks of McDaniels, this is on the Colts for announcing his hire before his name was on the line that is dotted.


What I don't get is signing assistants before signing the head coach, not to say it doesn't happen but usually there's only an oral commitment from assistants as well because of any number of reasons. I mean let's say the coach is incapacitated for whatever reason and now unable to coach but hasn't signed on the dotted line yet? Seems like two things happened: 1) Josh McDaniels was unsure the entire process and being in the playoffs became a hindrance to both parties and 2) the Colts then rushed through hirings because they were starting so late on assistants. Josh still created this situation by not backing out earlier, but it still seems like you're playing with fire when you start making business decisions based purely on an oral agreement.
 
2018-02-07 06:08:33 PM  

HideAndGoFarkYourself: TedDalton: Killer Cars: "oh, let's make a formal announcement of the hire on Twitter and schedule a press conference on the next day BEFORE he's actually signed the contract, because that'll totally shame him into just outright accepting the offer"

That is my theory.

Colts are idiots for announcing before he actually signed.

He told them Monday he was taking the job.  That's when coaches began to sign their contracts to work with him.  How is this so difficult to understand? McDaniels told the Colts he was taking the job and backed out.  They didn't suspect he was going to take it.  They didn't plan the press conference to convince him.  He had accepted it.  The Colts acted no differently than any other franchise would have, or has.


We had Vrabel in for an interview, the next day had Lafleur and Wilks, then the day after announced Vrabel was getting the job. He flies in a few days later, signs the contract and then we started the process of putting together the staff. Vrabel obviously had guys he had talked to and was interested in but the organization didn't put the cart before the horse, there were steps to this. A week later we hire Dean Pees as DC and Lafleur (who we interviewed for HC) became OC. Stick to the process. It's obvious McDaniels has a lot to learn about managing an organization from Belichick, it's also obvious from years past that the Colts like to rush and cut corners.
 
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