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(Washington Post)   Should you be reasonably expected to tip the same 20 or 25 percent that you do on a $50 bottle of wine when you purchase a $500 or $1000 bottle of wine?   ( live.washingtonpost.com) divider line
    More: Interesting, great mee krob, high end, different tip structures, Wine, bottle, Hi Tom, high end wines, total tip  
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5920 clicks; posted to Main » on 07 Feb 2018 at 2:05 PM (22 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2018-02-07 01:18:05 PM  
No.
 
2018-02-07 01:22:14 PM  
I'm generally on the side of servers 999 times out of 1,000, but:

First off, I would say that servers are taxed on total sales and make their income directly off tips --- they rarely get a paycheck from hourly wages and if they do it is a few dollars at most.

What does she mean they are "taxed on total sales?" That cannot be true. If they were getting taxed on total sales, they'd be paying the restaurant to work. And it's illegal not to give a server a paycheck for hourly wages.

What am I missing here?
 
2018-02-07 01:29:59 PM  
1%er problems.
 
2018-02-07 01:30:55 PM  
If you can afford a $1000 bottle of wine, you can afford a decent tip.  Don't be a rich cheapskate.
 
2018-02-07 01:31:14 PM  

sigdiamond2000: I'm generally on the side of servers 999 times out of 1,000, but:

First off, I would say that servers are taxed on total sales and make their income directly off tips --- they rarely get a paycheck from hourly wages and if they do it is a few dollars at most.

What does she mean they are "taxed on total sales?" That cannot be true. If they were getting taxed on total sales, they'd be paying the restaurant to work. And it's illegal not to give a server a paycheck for hourly wages.

What am I missing here?


She's being lazy about explaining it - the feds calculate (estimate/SWAG) their tip income based on their total sales. So, if they did sell a $1000 bottle of wine to a table, the Feds are assuming the standard tip on that $1000 bottle.
 
2018-02-07 01:32:51 PM  

sigdiamond2000: And it's illegal not to give a server a paycheck for hourly wages. What am I missing here?


In a lot of states, the minimum wage for food servers is WAY lower than the actual minimum wage.  Because it's presumed they would make tips, the employer, it's argued, shouldn't need to pay them as much themselves.
 
2018-02-07 01:34:43 PM  
Ooooh a tip thread! Who do I tip for my popcorn delivery?
 
2018-02-07 01:34:50 PM  

Ambivalence: If you can afford a $1000 bottle of wine, you can afford a decent tip. Don't be a rich cheapskate.


You'd think this, but I've heard of people who cashed in their welfare checks for their normal caviar or lobster and still had enough left for an expensive bottle of wine, and then had to deal with this very issue. It's a significant oversight in the program that Food Stamps don't allow for tips to be added to food purchases -- it forces people of limited means to "out" themselves when making these sort of purchases because their minimum wage jobs don't currently provide enough cash for a tip that matches such an item's value. That's discriminatory, and it's wrong.
 
2018-02-07 01:40:12 PM  

Pocket Ninja: Ambivalence: If you can afford a $1000 bottle of wine, you can afford a decent tip. Don't be a rich cheapskate.

You'd think this, but I've heard of people who cashed in their welfare checks for their normal caviar or lobster and still had enough left for an expensive bottle of wine, and then had to deal with this very issue. It's a significant oversight in the program that Food Stamps don't allow for tips to be added to food purchases -- it forces people of limited means to "out" themselves when making these sort of purchases because their minimum wage jobs don't currently provide enough cash for a tip that matches such an item's value. That's discriminatory, and it's wrong.


I normally don't find your stuff funny, but that was funny.
 
2018-02-07 01:41:07 PM  
At this rate, they'll be saying that 75-80% will be the going rate for tips in about 30 years.

If you can't afford to spend twice as much on the tip as you do the food, then you probably shouldn't be eating out.
 
2018-02-07 01:41:55 PM  

dj_bigbird: She's being lazy about explaining it - the feds calculate (estimate/SWAG) their tip income based on their total sales.


What do you mean "calculate their tip income?" I thought it was up to the server to report their tips? I mean, I'm sure the IRS can flag those with anomalies, but they don't actually calculate it, do they? How would they?

Ambivalence: In a lot of states, the minimum wage for food servers is WAY lower than the actual minimum wage. Because it's presumed they would make tips, the employer, it's argued, shouldn't need to pay them as much themselves.


I know some people argue that, but she's actually saying they don't get a paycheck. That can't be true.
 
2018-02-07 01:46:03 PM  
20-25% tip???
 
2018-02-07 01:47:15 PM  

darthaegis: At this rate, they'll be saying that 75-80% will be the going rate for tips in about 30 years.

If you can't afford to spend twice as much on the tip as you do the food, then you probably shouldn't be eating out.


And what rate would that be?

In 1922, suggested tipping was 10%. Average now is 17-19%. So it grew about 8% average in 96 years.

At the actual rate, we'd see 75-80% tip around the year 2750.
 
2018-02-07 01:48:12 PM  

darthaegis: At this rate, they'll be saying that 75-80% will be the going rate for tips in about 30 years.


We were tipping -45 to -40% 30 years ago?
 
2018-02-07 01:54:31 PM  
Exclusive photo of individual who would seriously ask this question:

img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2018-02-07 01:55:23 PM  
20 percent, regardless of the total. Absolutely.
 
2018-02-07 01:55:57 PM  

fly_gal: 20-25% tip???


You sound Canadian.
 
2018-02-07 02:00:27 PM  

FlashHarry: 20 percent, regardless of the total. Absolutely.


Yep. I sometimes go higher than that if their service is really good.

I've only not tipped twice in my life, and both of those times were the worst experiences I've had in a restaurant. One time was us waiting for 45 minutes just to get our drinks and they were maybe at 20% capacity. I asked the waiter if it was worth staying around since it took so long just to get drinks, and he literally did the ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ shoulder shrug while saying "Weeellll..." I paid for the drinks and we left.
 
2018-02-07 02:02:46 PM  

FlashHarry: 20 percent, regardless of the total. Absolutely.


Assuming, of course, that the service was good--I'll generally tip in the 20% range (or sometimes slightly less or more than 20%), regardless of the total, for good service, but a lower percentage than that, regardless of the total, for subpar service.  But, anyway, there's one post above that basically sums up all that needs to be said on this topic:

Ambivalence: If you can afford a $1000 bottle of wine, you can afford a decent tip.  Don't be a rich cheapskate.

 
2018-02-07 02:05:07 PM  

sigdiamond2000: I know some people argue that, but she's actually saying they don't get a paycheck. That can't be true.


That can't be LEGAL, but you know what they say, it's only illegal if you get caught.
 
2018-02-07 02:05:22 PM  

sigdiamond2000: dj_bigbird: She's being lazy about explaining it - the feds calculate (estimate/SWAG) their tip income based on their total sales.

What do you mean "calculate their tip income?" I thought it was up to the server to report their tips? I mean, I'm sure the IRS can flag those with anomalies, but they don't actually calculate it, do they? How would they?

Ambivalence: In a lot of states, the minimum wage for food servers is WAY lower than the actual minimum wage. Because it's presumed they would make tips, the employer, it's argued, shouldn't need to pay them as much themselves.

I know some people argue that, but she's actually saying they don't get a paycheck. That can't be true.


It is up to the server to report their tip income, but the IRS can audit and make sure you aren't fibbing.
 
2018-02-07 02:07:07 PM  
Short answer: yes.
Long answer: still yes.
 
2018-02-07 02:07:36 PM  

Cyberluddite: fly_gal: 20-25% tip???

You sound Canadian.


You're right.  We pay our servers here.  AT LEAST minimum wage which starts at $10.85 and goes to $15 depending on the province.
 
2018-02-07 02:09:09 PM  
$5, just like I tip for delivery of a pizza.
 
2018-02-07 02:10:46 PM  

scottydoesntknow: darthaegis: At this rate, they'll be saying that 75-80% will be the going rate for tips in about 30 years.

If you can't afford to spend twice as much on the tip as you do the food, then you probably shouldn't be eating out.

And what rate would that be?

In 1922, suggested tipping was 10%. Average now is 17-19%. So it grew about 8% average in 96 years.

At the actual rate, we'd see 75-80% tip around the year 2750.


Ha! 
~sigh~  Just a few years ago they were saying that the average tip was/should be 20%.  You can act shocked and say it has been that way for a few decades and call me poor or whatever, but I remember the threads where people were asking, "When did 20% become the new norm?"  The answer was, it really wasn't until the articles came out.
Now here we are not too much further along, and they are saying 20-25%.
96 year span, not much of a jump but, lower that time scale, it keeps jumping by 5% about every 7 years now.
 
2018-02-07 02:11:07 PM  
Nope.. and the tip should go to the sommelier or bar tender... if they are just uncorking it at the table and they don't mess it up, an extra $5-10 bucks is appropriate.
 
2018-02-07 02:11:18 PM  
Don't buy expensive wine. It tends to taste like ass.
 
2018-02-07 02:11:34 PM  
Why does the tipping percentage keep going up more with each story? It used to be 12-15%. Any more would be because the service was exceptional.
 
2018-02-07 02:11:38 PM  
The whole tipping thing is so stupid, it's time to replace it with something else.
 
2018-02-07 02:12:27 PM  
Depends on if I am selling or buying said wine...
 
2018-02-07 02:12:37 PM  

sigdiamond2000: What do you mean "calculate their tip income?" I thought it was up to the server to report their tips? I mean, I'm sure the IRS can flag those with anomalies, but they don't actually calculate it, do they? How would they?


The IRS assumes you get 8% of your gross sales in tips. The restaurant will provide that data to the IRS as part of your W-2. So, on a $1000 bottle of wine, the IRS assumes you got an $80 tip. If you got less, you owe taxes on money you didn't earn.
 
2018-02-07 02:12:40 PM  
I understand the logic in that argument, but if I have that kind of money and run in the social circles that lead me to eat in restaurants that serve $1,000 bottles I don't think I would want to be the person known for haggling over an extra $100.
 
2018-02-07 02:12:53 PM  
I tip well, but it does raise a good point.

My method of resolving the issue is to never buy alcohol from restaurants.

Wine by the glass is usually subsidized by the distributor/manufacturer so much that a single glass will pay for the bottle.

Wine by the bottle doesn't have quite the same 5x markup.  Wine list price is usually 2.5x-3x the restaurant's cost for mainstream wines that you can find at most supermarkets or liquor stores.
 
2018-02-07 02:13:32 PM  

Cyberluddite: Exclusive photo of individual who would seriously ask this question:

[img.fark.net image 640x360]


You beat me, I will leave now.
 
2018-02-07 02:13:55 PM  

Cyberluddite: Exclusive photo of individual who would seriously ask this question:

[img.fark.net image 640x360]


I got three words for you, "Learn to farking type."
 
2018-02-07 02:14:11 PM  
20%. The bill is the bill. You want to roll big and order overpriced wine dont be half-assed about it.
 
2018-02-07 02:14:25 PM  
Going to the back of the house, grabbing a bottle of wine, walking to the table, opening it, pouring it, making sure it's acceptable takes what, maybe 6 minutes?

So, if a customer picks a $1,000 bottle of wine, they should be tipping $200?  That's like the equivalent of $2,000/hour if my math isn't off.
 
2018-02-07 02:14:35 PM  
I truly hate tipping as a concept, and it's just getting out of control.  I would rather the price be the price.  Having said that I still tip 20% because I know what the situation is for servers in most cases, though I instantly love restaurants that abolish tipping.  As for expensive wine, I really disagree with the concept that the tip should be reflective of the price, and as a result I don't order expensive wine purely because of this conundrum.  I find it much easier to just pay the cork fee and tip something appropriate for the amount of effort and the charm of the server or sommelier.

Sometimes people are not rich, they are splurging on an expensive meal or bottle of wine for a special occasion and assuming they should have to pay 20% of what is an already greatly marked up bottle of wine seems sick to me.
 
2018-02-07 02:14:40 PM  
hmm, i never had to consider that before.

is your next thread going to be about your high student loan bills?
 
2018-02-07 02:15:10 PM  
This is not a problem I have to worry about, ever.
 
2018-02-07 02:15:40 PM  

rbuzby: The whole tipping thing is so stupid, it's time to replace it with something else.


Tipping is fine, but it should be in addition to a fair wage that your employer pays you.  That and the server should only be responsible for payroll taxes that normally are part of the employee contribution.
 
2018-02-07 02:15:41 PM  

Ambivalence: If you can afford a $1000 bottle of wine, you can afford a decent tip.  Don't be a rich cheapskate.

 
2018-02-07 02:16:09 PM  
ah look, it's a Fark tipping thread (tm) again!

/goes back to pornhub
 
2018-02-07 02:16:38 PM  

Crewmannumber6: Why does the tipping percentage keep going up more with each story? It used to be 12-15%. Any more would be because the service was exceptional.


Because minimum wage and waiter wages have remained flat.
 
2018-02-07 02:16:43 PM  

FlashHarry: 20 percent, regardless of the total. Absolutely.


I worked at a restaurant when I was a kid that had some absurdly cheap late night/early morning breakfast special.  Like 1$ for a few different dishes.  So the tip would be like $0.80tip for a meal that would normally be $5-6

sigdiamond2000: Ambivalence: In a lot of states, the minimum wage for food servers is WAY lower than the actual minimum wage. Because it's presumed they would make tips, the employer, it's argued, shouldn't need to pay them as much themselves.


I know some people argue that, but she's actually saying they don't get a paycheck. That can't be true.


It's especially true in shiatty states that have a minimum wage exclusion for tipped jobs:

wannabetvchef.files.wordpress.comView Full Size
 
2018-02-07 02:17:00 PM  
  Yes, you're always tipping on the total bill. By the logic of the submitted question, you should then tip less if you only ordered a cheap cheeseburger as opposed to a nice steak, because the effort of carrying the plate to the table was the same for both.
 
2018-02-07 02:17:04 PM  
As a person from a non-tipping culture, I find this so bewildering. Why can't you just pay your employees their appropriate wage and put the prices on the menu? My American wife says that the prices on the menu don't even include tax so when the bill comes, you're really taken by surprise, especially as the restaurant tax varies by locale. So basically you just have to hope you have enough money? Sheesh.
 
2018-02-07 02:17:55 PM  

rbuzby: The whole tipping thing is so stupid, it's time to replace it with something else.


I've seen a few places around that list in the menu that tips are not accepted because they pay the staff appropriately. I'm sure that sucks for the people who are really good at their job though.
 
2018-02-07 02:18:26 PM  

rbuzby: The whole tipping thing is so stupid, it's time to replace it with something else.


Supertipping.   Somewhere between thirty-five and two hundred percent of the bill.
 
2018-02-07 02:18:37 PM  

rbuzby: The whole tipping thing is so stupid, it's time to replace it with something else.



A slap on the butt like they do in sports?

*Slap*

Good job!
 
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