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(Mirror.co.uk)   Woman with rare debilitating disease loses disability payments because she A) Used the payments for personal use? B) Lied on her application? or C) Has a degree?   ( mirror.co.uk) divider line
    More: Asinine, PIP assessments, Prime minister, Prime Minister of the United Kingdom, MP Liz McInnes, Ms McInnes, Appeal, Bone marrow, Law  
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7780 clicks; posted to Main » on 07 Feb 2018 at 2:50 PM (22 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2018-02-07 10:34:38 AM  
University of Phoenix.
 
2018-02-07 01:31:56 PM  
Well, given that it's the Mirror, I'd say that degrees don't exist...
 
2018-02-07 01:41:44 PM  
So kids the moral of the story is NOT to try and better yourselves, but to aim low and wallow in the pit of mediocrity
 
2018-02-07 01:49:41 PM  
The organisations who do the assessments on behalf of the Department of Work and Pensions are a law unto themselves, seemingly accountable to nobody. The PIP assessment is an attempt to screw the poors and the disableds even more than the Disability Living Allowance assessments were - and they were bad enough.

My personal CSB was that 8 years ago I was awaiting 2 operations (bowel op and a hip replacement), but couldn't have either at the time because I was under Warfarin treatment for Deep Vein Thrombosis. My mobility was so restricted that I couldn't work, couldn't drive and could only go about 10 yards on two crutches before the pain forced me to stop. My daughter accompanied me while I had my assessment and was confident that I would receive help.

When the report came through, it said STFU and GBTW - the report was a complete fabrication of what had happened during the assessment, and everything I had said was misrepresented, omitted or just plain wrong.

What they didn't know was that I had made an audio recording of the entire assessment, and my daughter was a law talking lass. So I contacted my MP who sent his aides to my house to talk to me. Long story short, my MP got it sorted, I got the help I needed and I didn't have to go to a tribunal.

tl;dr: They are bastards.
 
2018-02-07 02:52:51 PM  

luckyeddie: The organisations who do the assessments on behalf of the Department of Work and Pensions are a law unto themselves, seemingly accountable to nobody. The PIP assessment is an attempt to screw the poors and the disableds even more than the Disability Living Allowance assessments were - and they were bad enough.

My personal CSB was that 8 years ago I was awaiting 2 operations (bowel op and a hip replacement), but couldn't have either at the time because I was under Warfarin treatment for Deep Vein Thrombosis. My mobility was so restricted that I couldn't work, couldn't drive and could only go about 10 yards on two crutches before the pain forced me to stop. My daughter accompanied me while I had my assessment and was confident that I would receive help.

When the report came through, it said STFU and GBTW - the report was a complete fabrication of what had happened during the assessment, and everything I had said was misrepresented, omitted or just plain wrong.

What they didn't know was that I had made an audio recording of the entire assessment, and my daughter was a law talking lass. So I contacted my MP who sent his aides to my house to talk to me. Long story short, my MP got it sorted, I got the help I needed and I didn't have to go to a tribunal.

tl;dr: They are bastards.


How's that QANGO shiat working out for you Brits?
 
2018-02-07 02:53:20 PM  
Be Diease-Free
Be Healthy
Don't Be Unhealthy
 
2018-02-07 02:57:18 PM  

SpaceyCat: Well, given that it's the Mirror, I'd say that degrees don't exist...


Same thing with women, healthcare and debilitating diseases.
 
2018-02-07 03:03:36 PM  

luckyeddie: What they didn't know was that I had made an audio recording of the entire assessment, and my daughter was a law talking lass.


Good on her. Sounds like she watched Matlock in a bar with the sound ON.

Smart move recording that meeting. When it's that important, always have a record.
 
2018-02-07 03:04:39 PM  

luckyeddie: The organisations who do the assessments on behalf of the Department of Work and Pensions are a law unto themselves, seemingly accountable to nobody. The PIP assessment is an attempt to screw the poors and the disableds even more than the Disability Living Allowance assessments were - and they were bad enough.

My personal CSB was that 8 years ago I was awaiting 2 operations (bowel op and a hip replacement), but couldn't have either at the time because I was under Warfarin treatment for Deep Vein Thrombosis. My mobility was so restricted that I couldn't work, couldn't drive and could only go about 10 yards on two crutches before the pain forced me to stop. My daughter accompanied me while I had my assessment and was confident that I would receive help.

When the report came through, it said STFU and GBTW - the report was a complete fabrication of what had happened during the assessment, and everything I had said was misrepresented, omitted or just plain wrong.

What they didn't know was that I had made an audio recording of the entire assessment, and my daughter was a law talking lass. So I contacted my MP who sent his aides to my house to talk to me. Long story short, my MP got it sorted, I got the help I needed and I didn't have to go to a tribunal.

tl;dr: They are bastards.


Username checks...no, sorry mate.  That is a sad, but sadly untypical, story for PIP.  I knew a janitor back in the UK who had to leave his job because he literally could not even lift a mop anymore.  Of course he was turned down for disability.
 
2018-02-07 03:05:43 PM  

luckyeddie: What they didn't know was that I had made an audio recording of the entire assessment


They shoot you in the States if you secretly record something. It interferes with our God given rights to tell lies.
 
2018-02-07 03:08:37 PM  

FrancoFile: How's that QANGO shiat working out for you Brits?


Gradually being reduced in number.
 
2018-02-07 03:10:51 PM  

Destructor: luckyeddie: What they didn't know was that I had made an audio recording of the entire assessment

They shoot you in the States if you secretly record something. It interferes with our God given rights to tell lies.


Shooting is excessive,  but is illegal in most places.
 
2018-02-07 03:10:51 PM  

Destructor: They shoot you in the States if you secretly record something. It interferes with our God given rights to tell lies.


They're not that keen on it over here either, but I would have gone to the newspapers and exposed their lies at the drop of a hat (which because of my disability at the time, I would not have been able to pick up again).
 
2018-02-07 03:10:51 PM  
 
2018-02-07 03:13:39 PM  
FrancoFile:

How's that QANGO shiat working out for you Brits?

One lousy live album, and then the whole thing fell apart.
 
2018-02-07 03:14:19 PM  
No disability payments if you have a degree?

Well that will learn'er..
 
2018-02-07 03:17:59 PM  
Gee. I have 98 degrees.
 
2018-02-07 03:20:06 PM  
Obviously poors on the dole are leeches on society who never recover, never contribute anything, and should be kicked to the curb.


Like that one lady who was on complete government support and never did a damn thing...what was her name....J.K. Rowling or something...?

Case proven.
 
2018-02-07 03:20:53 PM  

ds615: Destructor: luckyeddie: What they didn't know was that I had made an audio recording of the entire assessment

They shoot you in the States if you secretly record something. It interferes with our God given rights to tell lies.

Shooting is excessive,  but is illegal in most places.


I honestly cannot fathom why. I mean, I'm no fan of listening to my own voice. But come on.

The only reason people don't want it recorded are generally bad. They're doing something they shouldn't. Saying something dumb. Or lying.

Perhaps a good compromise would be it's okay to secretly record, but not legal to share with anyone else, unless, there's a damned good reason.
 
2018-02-07 03:28:47 PM  
Private companies on government contracts

/They never work
/ Just quit it already
 
2018-02-07 03:33:17 PM  
Rules are obviously different in the US vs. UK, but in the US, I could see that scenario, given some additional unreported (and hypothetical) facts. Social Security Disability requires a multi-step process, insomuch as an individual must have objective documentation of a diagnosed medical impairment that both: a) causes a significant restriction in your ability to work; and b) has lasted, or can be expected to last for twelve consecutive months at a disabling level, or end in death. A diagnosed impairment of a disorder that has a high likelihood of resulting in cancer, but is otherwise asymptomatic, will not result in a disability award. Likewise, if the impairment is somewhat symptomatic, but the person went out and got a degree while on disability, SSA might conclude that the person has the capacity to perform work based on their ability to obtain a degree. This is likely to be a greater deciding factor in a claim for mental or cognitive impairment, as it would demonstrate an ability to concentrate, persist, follow instructions, and the like, than it would be for a physical claim, but depending on the age of the individual, if they were vocationally allowed based on being over 55 and having only an ability (but no prior experience) to perform sedentary work, then a degree which provides direct entry into skilled, sedentary work could potentially lead to a finding that the person could do said work, and would thus be no longer disabled. There are obviously many other factors that would be considered in such a case, but I could see it being a legitimate (meaning, supported by a preponderance of the evidence) decision.
 
2018-02-07 03:35:05 PM  

ds615: Destructor: luckyeddie: What they didn't know was that I had made an audio recording of the entire assessment

They shoot you in the States if you secretly record something. It interferes with our God given rights to tell lies.

Shooting is excessive,  but is illegal in most places.


It's only illegal in 11 states.

California, Connecticut, Florida, Illinois, Maryland, Massachusetts, Montana, New Hampshire, Pennsylvania and Washington.

I record some of my phone calls. It literally pays off when dealing with horrible businesses.
 
2018-02-07 03:38:40 PM  

Ashlea: ...Illinois...


...myes... Illinois. My horrible state.

A few years ago it was illegal to take pictures of cops in public. Perhaps because lawmakers felt it was stealing their virtue. Maybe they were right.

On the plus side, I guess I can lie unchallenged at will! Yay!!!!!
 
2018-02-07 03:45:12 PM  

RedRudy: No disability payments if you have a degree?

Well that will learn'er..


Hey, if it's good enough for Stephen Hawking, it should be good enough for her.
 
2018-02-07 03:51:11 PM  
All sorts of nonsensical means testing WRT disability has been happening stateside for a while.

/next up: 'you were born with a third foot where your left eyeball would otherwise be, so you should be employable by the circus. denied.'
 
2018-02-07 03:55:43 PM  

luckyeddie: The organisations who do the assessments on behalf of the Department of Work and Pensions are a law unto themselves, seemingly accountable to nobody. The PIP assessment is an attempt to screw the poors and the disableds even more than the Disability Living Allowance assessments were - and they were bad enough.

My personal CSB was that 8 years ago I was awaiting 2 operations (bowel op and a hip replacement), but couldn't have either at the time because I was under Warfarin treatment for Deep Vein Thrombosis. My mobility was so restricted that I couldn't work, couldn't drive and could only go about 10 yards on two crutches before the pain forced me to stop. My daughter accompanied me while I had my assessment and was confident that I would receive help.

When the report came through, it said STFU and GBTW - the report was a complete fabrication of what had happened during the assessment, and everything I had said was misrepresented, omitted or just plain wrong.

What they didn't know was that I had made an audio recording of the entire assessment, and my daughter was a law talking lass. So I contacted my MP who sent his aides to my house to talk to me. Long story short, my MP got it sorted, I got the help I needed and I didn't have to go to a tribunal.

tl;dr: They are bastards.


Ah, it sounds like what happens in America. Those opposed to healthcare introduce "fixes" and "improvements" for the people of course, that sabotage the system and allow the very same conservatives to turn around and screech, "socialism doesn't work!"

It sounds like, luckily, your MPs can actually intervene, but how long will that last?
 
2018-02-07 03:58:15 PM  
It's the UK where dumb things happen naturally. Naturally.
 
2018-02-07 04:08:58 PM  

WelldeadLink: Gee. I have 98 degrees.


I only have 37.
 
2018-02-07 04:13:18 PM  

luckyeddie: The organisations who do the assessments on behalf of the Department of Work and Pensions are a law unto themselves, seemingly accountable to nobody. The PIP assessment is an attempt to screw the poors and the disableds even more than the Disability Living Allowance assessments were - and they were bad enough.

My personal CSB was that 8 years ago I was awaiting 2 operations (bowel op and a hip replacement), but couldn't have either at the time because I was under Warfarin treatment for Deep Vein Thrombosis. My mobility was so restricted that I couldn't work, couldn't drive and could only go about 10 yards on two crutches before the pain forced me to stop. My daughter accompanied me while I had my assessment and was confident that I would receive help.

When the report came through, it said STFU and GBTW - the report was a complete fabrication of what had happened during the assessment, and everything I had said was misrepresented, omitted or just plain wrong.

What they didn't know was that I had made an audio recording of the entire assessment, and my daughter was a law talking lass. So I contacted my MP who sent his aides to my house to talk to me. Long story short, my MP got it sorted, I got the help I needed and I didn't have to go to a tribunal.

tl;dr: They are bastards.


Worker's Comp physician's evaluations are like that here  They'll be all sympathetic and helpful to your face, but the official report says that you're a miserable lying sack of shiat who should be flogged before returning to work, and they imply that reduced wages are none to good for such a filthy liar. My dad was a lawyer and he had all of his clients record their evaluations by the comp doctor.  It was hilarious comparing the recording with the report.
 
2018-02-07 04:13:22 PM  

luckyeddie: The organisations who do the assessments on behalf of the Department of Work and Pensions are a law unto themselves, seemingly accountable to nobody. The PIP assessment is an attempt to screw the poors and the disableds even more than the Disability Living Allowance assessments were - and they were bad enough.

My personal CSB was that 8 years ago I was awaiting 2 operations (bowel op and a hip replacement), but couldn't have either at the time because I was under Warfarin treatment for Deep Vein Thrombosis. My mobility was so restricted that I couldn't work, couldn't drive and could only go about 10 yards on two crutches before the pain forced me to stop. My daughter accompanied me while I had my assessment and was confident that I would receive help.

When the report came through, it said STFU and GBTW - the report was a complete fabrication of what had happened during the assessment, and everything I had said was misrepresented, omitted or just plain wrong.

What they didn't know was that I had made an audio recording of the entire assessment, and my daughter was a law talking lass. So I contacted my MP who sent his aides to my house to talk to me. Long story short, my MP got it sorted, I got the help I needed and I didn't have to go to a tribunal.

tl;dr: They are bastards.


I work for an auto accident clinic, and the things my patients have seen in an independent medical examiner's office boggle the mind. I had a patient with a complete shoulder replacement after an injury told they had a "miraculous" recovery since they "apparently had a rotator cuff tear". Completely ignored the scars, imaging, history, everything.

I've seen the same with people incredibly injured- disc herniations, rotator tears, you name it- and they're magically fine after seeing an IME. We joke at my office that IMEs must be the best doctors on Earth- every patient is healed and ready to run a marathon after seeing one.
 
2018-02-07 04:15:48 PM  

Russ1642: WelldeadLink: Gee. I have 98 degrees.

I only have 37.


I have 310.
 
2018-02-07 04:30:02 PM  

Destructor:
They shoot you in the States if you secretly record something. It interferes with our God given rights to tell lies.


All you need to do is make sure that as you start recording you make mention of it as notification. After that they can't do anything unless they want to be mute. Also if they are recording it automatically implies their consent to you recording.

/live in a 2 party consent state
//I've crucified doctors, insurance people and bill collectors
///recordings don't lie, but everyone else does
 
2018-02-07 04:30:49 PM  

Preston Preston: That also excludes her from a career in law enforcement, I'm told.


Holding multiple degrees also gets you out of jury duty :)
 
2018-02-07 04:34:47 PM  
My Wife thought if I got disability it would remove my incentive to better myself. I had to work hard to get my disability, and now that I am on it, am trying to get off it. My parents, say that I am on disability and to stay there, but with two degrees already and going for my MBA this fall, I'm trying to go off of it.
Mediocrity is never an excuse.  My doc said before I could not dress myself and lacked basic hygiene, but made sure to dress well to show my docs I am doing fine.
I'll be suffering from a botched surgery, making it hard to walk, I can no longer ride a bike, and my Wife, even last night, was amazed I didn't die. Though before the last surgery, I could not even roll over in bed or stand. Am I angry? heck yes I am. The docs said before my last operation they hope to have me back to normal, I gave them a sidelong glance.
It's horrible what they are doing to this woman, in the name of socialized medicine.
 
2018-02-07 04:37:49 PM  

luckyeddie: FrancoFile: How's that QANGO shiat working out for you Brits?

Gradually being reduced in to a number.


FTFY


/still feel like a number
//but I ain't no stranger
///Bob Seger slashies
 
2018-02-07 05:04:59 PM  

aseras: All you need to do is make sure that as you start recording you make mention of it as notification.


Good idea! I'll just use this little gem: "For training purposes this conversation may be recorded."
 
2018-02-07 05:31:33 PM  

SpaceyCat: Well, given that it's the Mirror, I'd say that degrees don't exist...


That's the Daily Mail.

Given that it's the Mirror, I believe that degrees fell off a boat.
 
2018-02-07 05:32:09 PM  

Donald Trump's Vagina: So kids the moral of the story is NOT to try and better yourselves, but to aim low and wallow in the pit of mediocrity


It does seem that way...
If you try to improve yourself so's that you can haul your ass up out of the Pit O' Poverty, you get penalized for doing so.
And here I thought that getting oneself OUT of this particular rut was the whole point of the exercise...

Crab buckets, my friends...crab buckets.*

If a crab tries to climb out its prison, its mates will grab on and haul it back down.
I can sort of see (but not condone) the reason for this behavior in one's peers (read: jealousy, envy, fear, "How dare s/he think they're better than us?"), but when TPTB* ding one for trying to do better and GET OFF THE PUBLIC DOLE it just does not make sense.

I realize that a lot of people wish to game the system...but methinks that a much larger number do NOT.
Keeping the majority of otherwise hard-working, productive people down because of a loud, very visible minority whose motto is "Fark you...I exist. Therefore, I'm OWED a living. How DARE you expect me to contribute to this system?"

Much as I wish I was exaggerating, I'm not. I've heard these very words and this worldview expressed by a depressing number of people. For some reason, a lot of these people have had numerous...let's call it disagreements... with the law, how it functions, and to whom it applies.

Many of them also have quite a few descendants. The kids have a number of half-sibs on both sides.
Not all of of them buy into their parent's viewpoint that since they exist, they are OWED...but an unfortunate number of them do.

Please note- that I am NOT passing judgement here. I am merely stating facts.


* Unseen Academicals
Sir Terry Pratchett
ut sit nomen tuum est...ut te in æternum vive
 
2018-02-07 05:37:14 PM  

Sim Tree: Russ1642: WelldeadLink: Gee. I have 98 degrees.

I only have 37.

I have 310.


and i have 360, i go all the way around...
 
2018-02-07 05:44:15 PM  

Ashlea: ds615: Destructor: luckyeddie: What they didn't know was that I had made an audio recording of the entire assessment

They shoot you in the States if you secretly record something. It interferes with our God given rights to tell lies.

Shooting is excessive,  but is illegal in most places.

It's only illegal in 11 states.

California, Connecticut, Florida, Illinois, Maryland, Massachusetts, Montana, New Hampshire, Pennsylvania and Washington.

I record some of my phone calls. It literally pays off when dealing with horrible businesses.


The trick is to either tell everyone up front that the call "may be recorded for quality control" or put something on the line to indicate its being recorded, like a five-second beep.

Then you're covered.
 
2018-02-07 05:47:34 PM  

WTP 2: Sim Tree: Russ1642: WelldeadLink: Gee. I have 98 degrees.

I only have 37.

I have 310.

and i have 360, i go all the way around...


If you had 180, would you go both ways?
 
2018-02-07 05:49:09 PM  
This is triple hearsay.  I don't really take it at face value that that's what she was told.

I'm imagining it's something more along the lines that her symptoms prevent her from standing for a long period of time, but her line of work doesn't require standing for a long period of time.
 
2018-02-07 05:57:26 PM  
The outsourcing firm will have targets to cut payments and they will just deny people for anything that isn't truly obvious.

The Courts and Tribunal service (the government dept that is the final arbiter of decisions after the joke of an internal appeal system) is pissed at the shear workload the outsourcer is putting on their doorstep. Up to 85% of appeals of upheld against the DWP and the outsourcer.
 
2018-02-07 06:04:23 PM  

Gyrfalcon: The trick is to either tell everyone up front that the call "may be recorded for quality control" or put something on the line to indicate its being recorded, like a five-second beep.


I love that. Either for "quality control" or "training".... right...

They turn the damn recorder on and start lying right out of the gate.
 
2018-02-07 06:08:28 PM  
I know this is the UK but USA SSDI is just as bad or worse. If you ever get hurt or hospitalized send in the form. If or when you finally qualify they have to back pay you all the way back to your first application/denial. Might as well stretch it for all you can get since they don't give a fark about you.

/some pencil pushing beaurocrat isn't qualified to determine that you are disabled.
//should be done by a wholly independent local medical group where as part of getting your license renewed is you have to donate 8 hours,1 day a year to reviewing cases
///just like jury duty, but medical duty, nothing to gain or loose by any decision
 
2018-02-07 06:10:12 PM  

trivial use of my dark powers: luckyeddie: The organisations who do the assessments on behalf of the Department of Work and Pensions are a law unto themselves, seemingly accountable to nobody. The PIP assessment is an attempt to screw the poors and the disableds even more than the Disability Living Allowance assessments were - and they were bad enough.

My personal CSB was that 8 years ago I was awaiting 2 operations (bowel op and a hip replacement), but couldn't have either at the time because I was under Warfarin treatment for Deep Vein Thrombosis. My mobility was so restricted that I couldn't work, couldn't drive and could only go about 10 yards on two crutches before the pain forced me to stop. My daughter accompanied me while I had my assessment and was confident that I would receive help.

When the report came through, it said STFU and GBTW - the report was a complete fabrication of what had happened during the assessment, and everything I had said was misrepresented, omitted or just plain wrong.

What they didn't know was that I had made an audio recording of the entire assessment, and my daughter was a law talking lass. So I contacted my MP who sent his aides to my house to talk to me. Long story short, my MP got it sorted, I got the help I needed and I didn't have to go to a tribunal.

tl;dr: They are bastards.

Worker's Comp physician's evaluations are like that here  They'll be all sympathetic and helpful to your face, but the official report says that you're a miserable lying sack of shiat who should be flogged before returning to work, and they imply that reduced wages are none to good for such a filthy liar. My dad was a lawyer and he had all of his clients record their evaluations by the comp doctor.  It was hilarious comparing the recording with the report.


The Mrs Fan has been fighting CA disability for three years now, 2 of which she fought off breast cancer that resulted in double masectomy. This is on top of gongestive heart failure and viral cardiomyopathy she's had for almost 5 years that's keeping her out of work. She can barely make it to the farking curbside mailbox a lot of days. But at the last appeals hearing two weeks ago the judge asked her attorneys if she's able to stuff envelopes at home as a job. Christ, she needed a walker just to get in the courtroom.

Yah they're that farking condescending, yet I know of a few folks around town town that get disability and lied through their teeth to get disability. I don't understand the goddamn system that's supposed to help.
 
2018-02-07 06:16:05 PM  

IDisposable: This is triple hearsay.  I don't really take it at face value that that's what she was told.

I'm imagining it's something more along the lines that her symptoms prevent her from standing for a long period of time, but her line of work doesn't require standing for a long period of time.


Oh, I can well believe this story.

I had a friend with clinical depression who had her benefits stopped because she attended an assessment and so was judged fit enough not to need help.

The assessments are carried out by a private contractor who has an incentive to deny people's claims. They frequently lose on appeal, but a good number of people denied in this way won't appeal.
 
2018-02-07 06:35:42 PM  
The most shocking thing about this article and thread is that it seems that MPs actually do things for their constituents. As an American I'm to used to our representatives telling us to basically go fark ourselves if we need anything and don't have money to donate to them.
 
2018-02-07 06:40:46 PM  

RedRudy: No disability payments if you have a degree?

Well that will learn'er..


Perhaps an assumption that a graduate is more likely to be able to hold down a desk job than a non-graduate?

Only two things really, really annoy disability campaigners: (1) the idea that disabled people can't work and (2) the idea that disabled people can work.
 
2018-02-07 09:00:30 PM  

RedRudy: No disability payments if you have a degree?

Well that will learn'er..


What if you happen to a law degree? Is that an instant denial?
 
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