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(Daily Express)   Move over, North Korea and America; India and Pakistan are ready to start World War III (possible nsfw content on page)   ( express.co.uk) divider line
    More: Scary, heavy shelling, Kashmir, Shahid Iqbal Choudhary, border, India, latest shelling, tensions, Farooq Abdullah  
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7470 clicks; posted to Main » on 07 Feb 2018 at 3:22 AM (23 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2018-02-07 12:30:11 AM  
US troops from Afghanistan should be able to pick up most of  Pakistan's nukes before things get to out of hand. India wins because it is much larger and a better trading partner with the US.
 
2018-02-07 12:55:39 AM  
This is old nres really. There was a Fark many months, or maybe a year ago about how a Pakistan and Indian war would result in a nuclear winter due to all the fires started alone.

https://www.livescience.com/44380-sma​l​l-nuclear-war-could-trigger-catastroph​ic-cooling.html
 
2018-02-07 02:46:57 AM  
The region of Kashmir has been contested for decades - the Indo-Pakistani War of 1947 and 1965 both revolved around competing claims for the area.

A primal showdown between two of the mightiest nations of hagglers, both demanded of the other an insulting price for the land they thought they owned, which begat one of the longest, tensest "No, my friend" arguments the world has ever seen--both sides hell-bent on closing the deal on what history shall remember as The Great Bargain.
 
2018-02-07 03:33:47 AM  
Why do you think India and Pakistan were partitioned? The conflict between Muslims and Hindus goes back centuries. The Sikh were to combat Muslims. Both India and Pakistan acquired nuclear weapons to use against each other, if necessary.
 
2018-02-07 03:35:24 AM  
Well, at least if they start World War 3, we Americans can die with a somewhat semi-clean conscience.
 
2018-02-07 03:39:36 AM  

mdb1407: Well, at least if they start World War 3, we Americans can die with a somewhat semi-clean conscience.


So long as we all still get to die.

/c'mon giant meteor...
 
2018-02-07 03:41:18 AM  
I'm not saying this will become a war, but India and Pakistan have fought plenty in the past without destroying the planet, so I don't see why this time would be different.

gregscott: Why do you think India and Pakistan were partitioned? The conflict between Muslims and Hindus goes back centuries.


That's really not why. To oversimplify things, the partition happened because wealthy Muslim landowners wanted more power in a unified India and pushed too far. No one really wanted--or expected--partition.
 
2018-02-07 03:44:43 AM  
1000BC: "Neighbor, you stole one of my chickens!  You will pay for this one day!"

2018AD: "And now, with nuclear weapons, I will finally avenge the insult you gave my ancestor!"
 
2018-02-07 03:44:58 AM  

NobleHam: I'm not saying this will become a war, but India and Pakistan have fought plenty in the past without destroying the planet, so I don't see why this time would be different.

gregscott: Why do you think India and Pakistan were partitioned? The conflict between Muslims and Hindus goes back centuries.

That's really not why. To oversimplify things, the partition happened because wealthy Muslim landowners wanted more power in a unified India and pushed too far. No one really wanted--or expected--partition.


NO ONE EXPECTS THE INDIAN PARTITION!!
 
2018-02-07 03:52:56 AM  
An Express headline without gratuitous all-caps words?  SHOCK!!1
 
2018-02-07 03:58:05 AM  
Pakistan occupied Kashmir (PoK) part which is with Pakistan belongs to the neighbouring country and this side to India.

I'm glad he made that clear.
 
2018-02-07 04:14:03 AM  
Quite frankly, I wish ANY nuclear power would pull the trigger and get this shiat over with. I've had enough living in this world.
 
2018-02-07 04:29:10 AM  
Send this guy in to broker peace
img.fark.netView Full Size

He's got a pretty good royal wave
And he's just so darn pretty

/plushecansellweaponstobothsideswhenno​oneslooking
 
2018-02-07 04:35:05 AM  
This would be the only war in which bombing of cities would do billions of dollars of improvements
 
2018-02-07 04:49:45 AM  
And they have been, every day, since forever,

And no one farking cares.
 
2018-02-07 04:59:01 AM  
When you attend a funeral,
It is sad to think that sooner or
Later those you love will do the same for you.
And you may have thought it tragic,
Not to mention other adjec-
Tives, to think of all the weeping they will do.
But don't you worry.
No more ashes, no more sackcloth.
And an armband made of black cloth
Will some day never more adorn a sleeve.
For if the bomb that drops on you
Gets your friends and neighbors too,
There'll be nobody left behind to grieve.

And we will all go together when we go.
What a comforting fact that is to know.
Universal bereavement,
An inspiring achievement,
Yes, we all will go together when we go.

We will all go together when we go.
All suffuse with an incandescent glow.
No one will have the endurance
To collect on his insurance,
Lloyd's of london will be loaded when they go.

Oh we will all fry together when we fry.
We'll be french fried potatoes by and by.
There will be no more misery
When the world is our rotisserie,
Yes, we will all fry together when we fry.

Down by the old maelstrom,
There'll be a storm before the calm.

And we will all bake together when we bake.
There'll be nobody present at the wake.
With complete participation
In that grand incineration,
Nearly three billion hunks of well-done steak.

Oh we will all char together when we char.
And let there be no moaning of the bar.
Just sing out a te deum
When you see that I. C. B. M.,
And the party will be "come as you are."

Oh we will all burn together when we burn.
There'll be no need to stand and wait your turn.
When it's time for the fallout
And saint peter calls us all out,
We'll just drop our agendas and adjourn.

You will all go directly to your respective valhallas.
Go directly, do not pass go, do not collect two hundred dolla's.

And we will all go together when we go.
Ev'ry hottenhot and ev'ry eskimo.
When the air becomes uranious,
And we will all go simultaneous.
Yes we all will go together
When we all go together,
Yes we all will go together when we go.
 
2018-02-07 05:07:15 AM  
Pu In Loo
 
2018-02-07 05:55:54 AM  
War never changes.
img.fark.netView Full Size


Two-faced asshole is always preaching for me to be peaceful, then does this in Civ V.

Best Gandhi stories from my Civ V games:
1. Save his ass from extinction so I can have a trading partner where the surviving factions are all hostile with one another and Austria has married up all the neutral states. Says I'm too warlike and refuses my diplomacy. I let him get overrun and nuked by the Austrians, and go on to free Ethiopia's Haile Selassie from American bondage via bribing the AI, giving it cities on the Austrian border. Ethiopia opens up trading and bends over backwards for my troops and diplomats as my Brits and the Yanks go into a Cold War to space victory, and the Austrians hassle American forces constantly..

2. Biatches at me for taking over Russian cities one at a time, I'm warlike, blah blah. Two Russian cities left, Gandhi declares war on the Russians and rushes his armies into their cities.
 
2018-02-07 06:29:38 AM  

ToughActinProlactin: Quite frankly, I wish ANY nuclear power would pull the trigger and get this shiat over with. I've had enough living in this world.


It's your choice to keep living in this world.  You don't have to, you know.
 
2018-02-07 06:30:12 AM  

bittermang: And they have been, every day, since forever,

And no one farking cares.


This.
 
2018-02-07 06:42:37 AM  
Again??

Like 2 kids who don't get along
 
2018-02-07 06:43:03 AM  
That's terrible! If they destroy each other who will supply our obnoxious cab drivers, convenience store managers, and fake IRS employees to call and tell me there's an enforcement action against me that I can stop by paying them $1000 in iTunes gift cards?
 
2018-02-07 06:50:57 AM  
Originally wrote this after the Mumbai terror attack a few years ago, but still relevant. For those who don't like walls '' text, here's the short version: it's all Henry VIII's fault.

There used to be a very good show on BBC called Connections. I highly recommend this series (actually three separate seasons) for anyone curious about how things happened in just the way they happened. In one episode, James Burke (the host) explained how an Indian prince suffering from a headache in the 8th Century led more-or-less directly to the US space program. Fascinating stuff- especially if you're interested in the unintended consequences of various actions and/or inactions.

For example, Henry the VIIIth of England was  tired of his wife, which has led more-or-less directly to the real possibility of a nuclear war in south Asia. Bear with me, here. I'm not nearly as good at this as James Burke, and I don't have a BBC research team backing me up. I'm operating solely on remembered history, some fast Google searches, and a healthy dose of W.A.G.s (Wild-Ass Guesses).

Let us begin, Hank the 8th was tired of the lovely young thing he'd married, and wanted to bed a different lovely young thing. Since he was officially a Catholic, he couldn't get a divorce. Because he was King, he figured he ought to be able to get rid of the wife and marry the new girl, so he drop-kicked the Catholic church and started the Church of England (basically the same except for that pesky no-divorce thingie). Unfortunately, England was now a Protestant country at a time when the superpowers of the era were very cognizant of the political benefits of being on the Pope's side. When the Pope excommunicated Henry, the King of Spain was all too willing to enhance his public perception of piety by doing his best to undermine the English monarchy.

As a result of this long-term enmity between England and the Catholic monarchs of Europe, England was cut off from a lot of raw materials and manufactured goods from the Continent- and later from the Americas. The Brits did what they could by fighting the odd war at sea, making fast voyages to Protestant ports in Europe, and generally learning how to build and maintain a recognizably modern Navy (a wonderful asset for any island nation). When the Spanish and French tried to keep England out of the treasure troves of MesoAmerica, the English turned to piracy (improving their nautical abilities) and colonizing marginal areas in the Caribbean and in North America (giving them strongholds, supply ports, raw materials, and someplace to plant surplus population).

This simultaneous expansion of naval capabilities and overseas territories led England into multiple conflicts with the European powers. When the MesoAmerican plunder-fest finally died out with the last of the easily-accessible Incan and Aztec gold, the three major European powers (England, France, and Spain) found themselves increasingly locking horns over North American territories. Defeating near-equal military powers is expensive, so England started increasing the taxes on their North American colonists. When those colonists complained that they were getting excluded from the political process used to raise or lower taxes, England decided to spank their impudent behinds to remind them that mama knows best.

The colonists were understandably miffed, and foolishly decided to rebel against the most powerful nation on Earth at that time- hoping mainly to stay alive long enough to coax at least one other European power into the fight on their side. Luckily for the colonists, the French decided to play, and England lost their biggest and most prosperous overseas colony. Even handily spanking the fledgling country in another war two decades later couldn't bring the Americans back into the fold, so the English and Americans eventually started doing business together. The British still had extensive colonies elsewhere overseas, and managed to hang onto many of them- partly as a result of lessons learned during the American affairs.

A century later, the new country even joined their British cousins and French former allies in a massive cluster-fark of a war in mainland Europe. This was so successful that they decided to do it again thirty years later. By this time, the British Empire was huge- stretching across half the planet and including a significant percentage of the world's population. One of the jewels in the British crown was India. Another was the area we now call the Middle East.

After WWII, Britain started to slowly divest itself of its various colonies. The vast tribal areas of the Middle East were divided into a patchwork of "nations" based on almost no ground research, a great deal of wishful thinking, and a modest amount of biblical misinformation. Thus the arbitrary lines on maps in Europe divided tribes and clans in Arabia, and their rulers were all propped up by British guns- so long as the rulers behaved themselves. Worse still, those arbitrary lines on the maps left clans and tribes which had been historical enemies in the new "nations".

India managed to convince the British that trying to hold such a large country with the few thousand (at best) troops available was a losing proposition, and became their own country. The British managed one last attempt at guiding the future of the sub-continent by spinning off the easternmost and westernmost provinces into independent nations, using the high-quality decision-making processes that worked so well in the Middle East. Thus were Pakistan and Bangladesh created.

India had a huge population which was deeply stratified along caste and religious lines. The well-thought-out British partition of the sub-continent left millions of Muslims in the predominantly Hindu nation of India (and thousands of Hindus in the overwhelmingly Muslim nation of Pakistan.) Indian society (and human nature) being what it was, these minority groups immediately suffered the fate of most minority groups throughout history. Violence escalating to war was the result. Repeatedly.

In the Middle East, things were going beautifully. Everything was puppies and rainbows and unicorns. Sectarian violence flared up. Wherever large non-Muslim minority groups were present, the infidels often suffered from pogroms and violence. The only preventive measure against large-scale ethnic cleansing was the existence (or creation) of powerful dictators, who would keep order through overt military might. The presence of vast reserves of petroleum under the area drew the new power-brokers to the regional and sectarian conflicts. In the typically benevolent manner of such interactions, the two superpowers made things worse by adding ideological reasons for violence and hatred.

After a few decades of coups, revolutions, wars, counter-coups, counter-revolutions, and more wars, one of the superpowers went home to nurse their wounds while the other started strutting about the planet like we owned the place. The fact that there was no longer a realistic military counter to American power made the covert and overt meddling in everyone's business even more galling. Everybody started disliking American policy- not just American citizens and the French.

Mix loads of oil-created wealth in historically unstable nation-states created whole cloth from the remnants of the British Empire with swaggering American boorishness. Add in a healthy dose of longing for the mythical "good old days" of the Caliphate and several liberal helpings of Superpower guilt. Cook vigorously for years in a stew of extreme poverty, deliberate ignorance, and despotic ruthlessness. Sprinkle with plenty of religious whackjobs. Et voila! A feast of knives ensues.

The loons who planned and committed the attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon were hoping that the resulting American counterstrike would cause the Islamic world to rise up against American domination and return to the purity and glory of the early Islamic world, but with AK-47s and (hopefully) nuclear weapons. Instead of vaporizing Riyadh, Mecca, and Medina, however, the US struck first at the home bases of Al Qaeda in Afghanistan. Since Al Qaeda was allied with the fundamentalist ass-hats who ruled Afghanistan, they had to go. The US overtly aided the Taliban's enemies with air power and special forces teams. With that kind of backing, the Northern Alliance eventually drove the Taliban (and their Al Qaeda allies) out of Afghanistan. Into Pakistan.

Like the arbitrary and artificial "nations" created by the British in the Middle East, Pakistan was a hodge-podge of tribes and clans and long histories of mutual antipathy. Parts of Pakistan were not even nominally under the control of Pakistan's "government". Pakistan's military was only nominally under the control of the government- and often it was the other way around. The Pakistani military was legitimately obsessed with the threat from India, and the military intelligence services had a history of using religious fundamentalist whackjobs to carry out proxy wars with India to help even out the conventional military disparity between the two rivals.

The Americans told Pakistan that they could either join in the Global War on Terror or the US would immediately and totally support India against Pakistan. Joining the GWOT would get Pakistan some international street cred (something the military dictatorship in power needed desperately), access to US military intelligence assets, and wads of US dollars. The Americans would even put pressure on India to warm relations with Pakistan, allowing the Pakistani military to devote time and assets to dealing with the obstreperous hill folk in the so-called "tribal areas".  Giving aid and comfort to the Taliban and Al Qaeda, on the other hand, would earn Pakistan a sky full of hostile aircraft loaded with precision weaponry.

Unwillingly, and with plenty of private caveats, reservations, and dark thoughts, Pakistan agreed to join the GWOT. This proved to be a serious mistake for the military dictatorship, since American public opinion loathes dictatorships. Political pressure in the US caused the State Department and the White House to put increasing pressure on Pakistan's ruler to open up his political processes. Dictatorships rarely last once the dictator stops applying the lash, and Pakistan was no different. Out with the latest in a long line of military overlords, and in with a weak (but more-or-less democratically-elected) civilian government- which was automatically at odds with the military and intelligence organizations. These groups chafed under US pressures to handle the increasingly-violent tribal areas and were in no mood to help the civilian government out with a Muslim population also unhappy with infidel troops occasionally raiding across the border from Afghanistan in pursuit of Taliban and Al Qaeda fighters.

With all of this nonsense going on, a lot of Pakistani militant groups got to thinking about ways to further reduce the military pressure from Afghanistan and Pakistan. Somewhere along the line, someone decided that starting a new face-off with India would do the job nicely. The last time an Islamic terror group from Pakistan had operated in India, a six-month bout of troop maneuvers and other saber-rattling had ensued, diverting Pakistani military attention away from the Tribal areas and toward the Indian border. So a group of local nutjobs trained hard for a few months while gathering intelligence on politically-worthwhile targets inside India, then they viciously and publicly murdered a couple of hundred people in Mumbai . To make damned sure the blame would land on Pakistan, these terrorists broke most of the counter-intelligence rules and left obvious clues behind everywhere they went- such as a satellite phone with lots of calls to known Kashmir- based terrorist groups.

Public opinion in India demanded an energetic response from their government. The US is trying very hard to keep the two nuclear-armed countries from going for each others' throats, and so are the civilian governments of both India and Pakistan. If another blatant Pakistan-based terrorist attack occurs in the near future, India's government might be forced to respond militarily- such as by mobilizing reserves and moving troops to the Pakistani border. Pakistan would be forced to respond in kind. A few more atrocities by hot-heads on either side of the border could easily precipitate a shooting war. India could crush Pakistan in a conventional fight, and both countries know it. Pakistan could very easily end up using nuclear weapons to defeat India's vastly superior conventional military. This could very easily result in a full-scale nuclear exchange .

A bit long-winded, full of implausible historical notions and some guesswork on my part (along with a great many egregious shortcuts with history), but that is why Henry VIII's inability to keep his codpiece at home could lead to a nuclear war between India and Pakistan.
 
2018-02-07 06:55:22 AM  

gregscott: Why do you think India and Pakistan were partitioned? The conflict between Muslims and Hindus goes back centuries. The Sikh were to combat Muslims. Both India and Pakistan acquired nuclear weapons to use against each other, if necessary.


This is about water.
 
2018-02-07 07:01:52 AM  
Wenchmaster: ...A bit long-winded, full of implausible historical notions and some guesswork on my part (along with a great many egregious shortcuts with history), but that is why Henry VIII's inability to keep his codpiece at home could lead to a nuclear war between India and Pakistan

Yeah, but that took about 500 years... We can do things so much more quickly and efficiently nowadays...
 
2018-02-07 07:19:40 AM  

Practical_Draconian: War never changes.
[img.fark.net image 556x720]

Two-faced asshole is always preaching for me to be peaceful, then does this in Civ V.

Best Gandhi stories from my Civ V games:
1. Save his ass from extinction so I can have a trading partner where the surviving factions are all hostile with one another and Austria has married up all the neutral states. Says I'm too warlike and refuses my diplomacy. I let him get overrun and nuked by the Austrians, and go on to free Ethiopia's Haile Selassie from American bondage via bribing the AI, giving it cities on the Austrian border. Ethiopia opens up trading and bends over backwards for my troops and diplomats as my Brits and the Yanks go into a Cold War to space victory, and the Austrians hassle American forces constantly..

2. Biatches at me for taking over Russian cities one at a time, I'm warlike, blah blah. Two Russian cities left, Gandhi declares war on the Russians and rushes his armies into their cities.


I must have had the settings all screwed up in that game. All I ever got were two teen girls whispering and looking at me, and giggling, and then whispering more and making fake gagging noises.
 
2018-02-07 07:32:55 AM  
Another day ending in "y"?
 
2018-02-07 07:39:36 AM  
I hope we're not a designated target for India. That would be shiatty.
 
2018-02-07 07:52:04 AM  
Is there really anybody that would back either India or Pakistan enough for it to really be declared WW3?

Russia has strong ties with both, China is only interested in the Kashmir and could use the war as a pretext to invade the Kashimr and take it from both but I'm not sure if anybody would do anything militarily about it.

The US also has stronger economic ties with India but would have plenty to loose Pakistan fails and turns into a terrorist breeding ground like Iraq so it is unlikely the US would be involved militarily during the conflict and would do more for prevention, however with Trump in office all bets are off.
 
2018-02-07 08:54:03 AM  
Farooq Abdullah's hat is called a karakul. I think he looks good in that.

/Also, I would like one.
//Perhaps there will be a sale after the war breaks out.
///Also, buy a vowel, Farooq. Your name needs an extra one.
 
2018-02-07 09:23:05 AM  
img.fark.netView Full Size

"What's the difference between Pakistan and a pancake? I don't know any pancakes that were nuked by India!"
 
2018-02-07 09:53:15 AM  
Again?

Please do...we're long overdue for a hard reset
 
2018-02-07 09:56:27 AM  
img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2018-02-07 09:58:53 AM  

dennysgod: Is there really anybody that would back either India or Pakistan enough for it to really be declared WW3?

Russia has strong ties with both, China is only interested in the Kashmir and could use the war as a pretext to invade the Kashimr and take it from both but I'm not sure if anybody would do anything militarily about it.

The US also has stronger economic ties with India but would have plenty to loose Pakistan fails and turns into a terrorist breeding ground like Iraq so it is unlikely the US would be involved militarily during the conflict and would do more for prevention, however with Trump in office all bets are off.


pakistan is doing a pretty good job falling apart on their own.  If everyone decides to stay hands off when a conflict erupts India wins hands down.  It's not really a question of if but when Pakistan finally falls apart and how that transition happens.
 
2018-02-07 10:20:20 AM  

dittybopper: ToughActinProlactin: Quite frankly, I wish ANY nuclear power would pull the trigger and get this shiat over with. I've had enough living in this world.

It's your choice to keep living in this world.  You don't have to, you know.


Trust me, I just bought a .45 for that.
 
2018-02-07 10:25:43 AM  
Is it really a world war if it's only between two countries?
 
2018-02-07 11:10:22 AM  
This situation clearly calls for an intervention by Led Zeppelin.
 
2018-02-07 11:11:16 AM  

Prank Call of Cthulhu: That's terrible! If they destroy each other who will supply our obnoxious cab drivers, convenience store managers, and fake IRS employees to call and tell me there's an enforcement action against me that I can stop by paying them $1000 in iTunes gift cards?


"Hello, this is Microsoft support, we have detected a virus on your computer and we are calling to help you remove it. If you will please to help me connect to your computer remotely we will have your system fixed very quickly!"


/Told him I was a MCSA so I knew he was full of crap.
//He threatened to send the police to arrest me.
///I told him I had them listening to the call on another line, and they were asking to speak with him. He hung up.
 
2018-02-07 11:11:25 AM  

dennysgod: The US also has stronger economic ties with India but would have plenty to loose Pakistan fails and turns into a terrorist breeding ground like Iraq so it is unlikely the US would be involved militarily during the conflict and would do more for prevention, however with Trump in office all bets are off.


If the balloon goes up I suspect we would get involved in taking Pakistani nukes out of play.  (The Indian  ones wouldn't matter--if Pakistan's are out of it India would have no reason to use theirs, the war would stay conventional.)

Basically what's going on here is that there are powerful Islamist forces in Pakistan that have been trying to egg on war for ages.  So far cooler heads have prevailed.  This is also why we help Pakistan--we want to keep those cooler heads in charge.
 
2018-02-07 11:39:28 AM  

eurotrader: US troops from Afghanistan should be able to pick up most of  Pakistan's nukes before things get to out of hand.


I see you're unfamiliar with Pakistani nuclear security.

It is true that the SPD is considered to be a highly professional organization, at least by Pakistani-government standards of professionalism. General Kidwai, its leader, is well regarded by Western nuclear-security experts, and the soldiers and civilians he leads are said by Pakistani spokesmen to be screened rigorously for their probity and competence, and for signs of political or religious immoderation. The SPD, Pakistani officials say, keeps careful watch over behavioral changes in its personnel; employees are investigated thoroughly for ties to extremists, and to radical mosques, and for changes in their lifestyle and income. The SPD also is believed to maintain "dummy" storage sites that serve to divert attention from active ones.

There is evidence to suggest that neither the Pakistani army, nor the SPD itself, considers jihadism the most immediate threat to the security of its nuclear weapons; indeed, General Kayani's worry, as expressed to General Kidwai after Abbottabad, was focused on the United States. According to sources in Pakistan, General Kayani believes that the U.S. has designs on the Pakistani nuclear program, and that the Abbottabad raid suggested that the U.S. has developed the technical means to stage simultaneous raids on Pakistan's nuclear facilities.

Still, General Kidwai promised that he would redouble the SPD's efforts to keep his country's weapons far from the prying eyes, and long arms, of the Americans, and so he did: according to multiple sources in Pakistan, he ordered an increase in the tempo of the dispersal of nuclear-weapons components and other sensitive materials. One method the SPD uses to ensure the safety of its nuclear weapons is to move them among the 15 or more facilities that handle them. Nuclear weapons must go to the shop for occasional maintenance, and so they must be moved to suitably equipped facilities, but Pakistan is also said to move them about the country in an attempt to keep American and Indian intelligence agencies guessing about their locations.

Nuclear-weapons components are sometimes moved by helicopter and sometimes moved over roads. And instead of moving nuclear material in armored, well-defended convoys, the SPD prefers to move material by subterfuge, in civilian-style vehicles without noticeable defenses, in the regular flow of traffic. According to both Pakistani and American sources, vans with a modest security profile are sometimes the preferred conveyance. And according to a senior U.S. intelligence official, the Pakistanis have begun using this low-security method to transfer not merely the "de-mated" component nuclear parts but "mated" nuclear weapons. Western nuclear experts have feared that Pakistan is building small, "tactical" nuclear weapons for quick deployment on the battlefield. In fact, not only is Pakistan building these devices, it is also now moving them over roads.



Grabbing ~130 weapons simultaneously from 15+ facilities and dozens of anonymous trucks in transit? From a military that designed its security specifically around us? Yeah, probably not.
 
2018-02-07 12:01:53 PM  
Wenchmaster: Originally wrote this after the Mumbai terror attack a few years ago, but still relevant. For those who don't like walls '' text, here's the short version: it's all Henry VIII's fault.

There used to be a very good show on BBC called Connections. I highly recommend this series (actually three separate seasons) for anyone curious about how things happened in just the way they happened. In one episode, James Burke (the host) explained how an Indian prince suffering from a headache in the 8th Century led more-or-less directly to the US space program. Fascinating stuff- especially if you're interested in the unintended consequences of various actions and/or inactions.

For example, Henry the VIIIth of England was  tired of his wife, which has led more-or-less directly to the real possibility of a nuclear war in south Asia. Bear with me, here. I'm not nearly as good at this as James Burke, and I don't have a BBC research team backing me up. I'm operating solely on remembered history, some fast Google searches, and a healthy dose of W.A.G.s (Wild-Ass Guesses).

Let us begin, Hank the 8th was tired of the lovely young thing he'd married, and wanted to bed a different lovely young thing. Since he was officially a Catholic, he couldn't get a divorce. Because he was King, he figured he ought to be able to get rid of the wife and marry the new girl, so he drop-kicked the Catholic church and started the Church of England (basically the same except for that pesky no-divorce thingie). Unfortunately, England was now a Protestant country at a time when the superpowers of the era were very cognizant of the political benefits of being on the Pope's side. When the Pope excommunicated Henry, the King of Spain was all too willing to enhance his public perception of piety by doing his best to undermine the English monarchy.

As a result of this long-term enmity between England and the Catholic monarchs of Europe, England was cut off from a lot of raw materials and manufactured goods from ...


seems like Islam is more at fault; by hey, blame whitey.
 
2018-02-07 12:25:09 PM  
talks...i thought he said dogs...
 
2018-02-07 12:42:08 PM  

ToughActinProlactin: dittybopper: ToughActinProlactin: Quite frankly, I wish ANY nuclear power would pull the trigger and get this shiat over with. I've had enough living in this world.

It's your choice to keep living in this world.  You don't have to, you know.

Trust me, I just bought a .45 for that.


You should maybe talk to somebody. Folks are here for you!
 
2018-02-07 03:08:30 PM  
So they will turn both country's into uninhabitable waist lands. Think anyone will notice?
 
2018-02-07 03:38:18 PM  

stuffy: So they will turn both country's into uninhabitable waist lands. Think anyone will notice?


Call centers will be devastated. Tech support will become even worse.
 
2018-02-07 03:49:01 PM  
Whenever the US would need India for an attack against North Korea, they'd have to call them first via a hotline. "Hello, army support. What can I help you with today?"
 
2018-02-07 04:56:03 PM  

BigNumber12: It is true that the SPD is considered to be a highly professional organization, at least by Pakistani-government standards of professionalism.

Grabbing ~130 weapons simultaneously from 15+ facilities and dozens of anonymous trucks in transit? From a military that designed its security specifically around us? Yeah, probably not.



It is cute Pakistan thinks driving nukes around in laundry trucks is security. It does not require grabbing all of the nukes right away just enough, with utter destruction of any facility that may house them to prevent use, the US has more than enough firepower to do this and even if they hit a few empty holes all possible locations could be hit. The US would do it to keep India from releasing a giant can of whoop ass on Pakistan. India's standard of living has been increasing and still has a long way to go but they have the education, desire and room to do it, Pakistan is a minor country that has gotten lucky with a few very smart people along with some thief giving them nukes.
 
2018-02-07 07:41:09 PM  

eurotrader: BigNumber12: It is true that the SPD is considered to be a highly professional organization, at least by Pakistani-government standards of professionalism.
Grabbing ~130 weapons simultaneously from 15+ facilities and dozens of anonymous trucks in transit? From a military that designed its security specifically around us? Yeah, probably not.


It is cute Pakistan thinks driving nukes around in laundry trucks is security. It does not require grabbing all of the nukes right away just enough, with utter destruction of any facility that may house them to prevent use, the US has more than enough firepower to do this and even if they hit a few empty holes all possible locations could be hit. The US would do it to keep India from releasing a giant can of whoop ass on Pakistan. India's standard of living has been increasing and still has a long way to go but they have the education, desire and room to do it, Pakistan is a minor country that has gotten lucky with a few very smart people along with some thief giving them nukes.


You're fooling yourself about the difficulty of a simultaneous grab of even a fraction of those weapons. A surprise covert incursion of ours targeting a single location went seriously south. You think that 20, 30, 50+ locations, among hundreds of thousands of candidates, are going to go off without a hitch, especially now that they know that we'd do such things to an ally, along with roughly how we'd do it?

And the moment we hit a single location, everything else would lock down and they'd declare war on us. And the fanatics, paranoids, and jihadis in their power structure (and throughout the rest of the Muslim world) would've been proven absolutely right about our sinister intentions, resulting in a drop in partnership with our allies beyond even what Trump has managed. Is that really what you're after?

And that "minor country" is the fifth most populous on earth. The 6th largest military on Earth, and the largest Muslim one - they're widely seen as a strong leader in the Muslim world, and even have good relations with Shia Iran. And they spend a larger portion of their GDP on their military than most NATO members.

Are you sure you're even remotely familiar with Pakistan?
 
2018-02-07 07:56:27 PM  
It would not be  in any sense of the word covert. The bigger point is Pakistan is not any way equal to India and without nukes they would not be acting aggressively. The best reason I can think of for the US to maintain a large military presence in Afghanistan is to watch Pakistan.
 
2018-02-07 08:13:38 PM  

eurotrader: It would not be  in any sense of the word covert. The bigger point is Pakistan is not any way equal to India and without nukes they would not be acting aggressively. The best reason I can think of for the US to maintain a large military presence in Afghanistan is to watch Pakistan.


For whatever complicated, dysfunctional relationship we may have with them now, Pakistan's our old Cold War ally, the way India was to the USSR. We aren't going to stab them from Afghanistan if they get into shiat with India.

And you do realize that those troops in Afghanistan that you keep referencing are overwhelmingly supplied through Pakistan, right?
 
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