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(Slate)   "Dear Prudence: My son and his wife are having our first grandchild. I was told her mother, not me, was welcome in the delivery room. My son doesn't value me; I tried reasoning with her parents. How can I get them to reverse their cruel decision?"   ( slate.com) divider line
    More: Facepalm, delivery room, husband, Q., small things, Family, Mallory Ortberg, Julia, Dear Prudence  
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1112 clicks; posted to Discussion » on 06 Feb 2018 at 8:09 AM (23 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2018-02-06 06:53:52 AM  
Look, I've never been pregnant and I've never delivered a child and even I know that a woman in that situation may not want a bunch of people gathering around, listening to her screaming in pain while she passes a watermelon through her vajayjay.  But, when it does happen, some women want their mom around.  You're not her mom, so leave her alone.
 
2018-02-06 07:00:06 AM  

Ambivalence: Look, I've never been pregnant and I've never delivered a child and even I know that a woman in that situation may not want a bunch of people gathering around, listening to her screaming in pain while she passes a watermelon through her vajayjay.  But, when it does happen, some women want their mom around.  You're not her mom, so leave her alone.


Totally reasonable thing a person would think.   Some people are not reasonable and only think about things in context of how affects them personally.  Some people like that even make it to very high political office.
 
2018-02-06 07:12:51 AM  
Dear mom, were your parents in the room when you had your son? Were your in-laws? No? Then there you go.
 
2018-02-06 07:17:31 AM  

Archie Goodwin: Dear mom, were your parents in the room when you had your son? Were your in-laws? No? Then there you go.


My grandmother once told a story about when she had her first child (and this would have been in the 1940s) coming home and there was all this family in the house and how stressful it was for her.

I get it, babies are wonderful and grandchildren are wonderful and you want to be a part of everything.  But being there would just stress out the new mother, leave her alone.
 
2018-02-06 07:26:32 AM  
My wife and I agreed: The only people in the delivery room aside from the doctor and nurses and hospital staff would be she and I, and eventually the baby.
The subject of inviting either of our mothers in never came up; but I have friends who have basically had to tell their families to stay out during the birthing process.
 
2018-02-06 07:28:35 AM  
My wife had her cousin, the midwife, and me.  The cousin was the one who could stay sort of levelheaded for us.  Had either of our parents left their house when she started contractions that might have had to break a speed limit or two to make it there in time.

This ain't about you, grandma.  Suck it up and love your family.
 
2018-02-06 07:37:16 AM  
img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2018-02-06 07:42:12 AM  
Remember:  If everyone is treating you like you are crazy and wrong, you are probably crazy and wrong...

 
2018-02-06 07:42:13 AM  
Woman sounds like a piece of work. "My first grandchild", "doesn't value me", etc. I'm thinking this lady is a grade A narcissist, who has probably pissed off the expecting couple on more than one occasion.
 
2018-02-06 07:45:40 AM  
News flash: the would is filled with assholes. Film at 11, and 12, and 3:17, and 6:02, and 7:58...
 
2018-02-06 08:15:46 AM  

flucto: News flash: the would is filled with assholes. Film at 11, and 12, and 3:17, and 6:02, and 7:58...


Is that the British spelling?
 
2018-02-06 08:19:49 AM  
Why are people obsessed with watching some sweaty grunting woman squeeze a sprog out of her hairy cooch?
 
2018-02-06 08:21:37 AM  

Ambivalence: flucto: News flash: the would is filled with assholes. Film at 11, and 12, and 3:17, and 6:02, and 7:58...

Is that the British spelling?


The British spelling is "Wourld".  As in "The wourld is full ouf peouple whou lack coumpassioun and souul."
 
2018-02-06 08:21:48 AM  
Oddly missing from this letter is any explanation whatsoever for why everyone is telling her to stay out of the room, hanging up the phone on her, etc.   She probably has a history of behavior that led to this, and didn't bother to admit to this in her letter.
 
2018-02-06 08:27:22 AM  

Ambivalence: flucto: News flash: the would is filled with assholes. Film at 11, and 12, and 3:17, and 6:02, and 7:58...

Is that the British spelling?


old english
 
2018-02-06 08:30:02 AM  
I am the most important person in the world. My wants and needs - nay, demands - are above all others. How dare you not see how important I am from the titles that I use to describe myself? Nurse! Mother! Grandmother!
Your feelings are less important because you are less important.
 
2018-02-06 08:34:17 AM  
It's kind of weird that Dad wants to see daughter-in-law's pussy.
 
2018-02-06 08:38:42 AM  
The best thing you could do? A three week supply of frozen dinners. Lasagne, thick soups, etc. You will be remembered and treasured more for your contributions to fuss-free dinners than you ever would be for your content-free attendance in the birthing suite. Really, what can you do? Baby's gonna birth with or without you, you should examine your situation and ask yourself, "what's my best contribution to this situation?" Hanging around the birthing suite ain't the answer.
 
2018-02-06 08:40:34 AM  
Stream it live on Facebook.
 
2018-02-06 08:45:54 AM  

Xcott: Oddly missing from this letter is any explanation whatsoever for why everyone is telling her to stay out of the room, hanging up the phone on her, etc.   She probably has a history of behavior that led to this, and didn't bother to admit to this in her letter.


This is her Gotterdamerung and I like the idea of watching her world crash down in flames around her
 
2018-02-06 08:48:13 AM  
Amityville Horror voice:  "Get out!"

Hey, Second-class Grandma, bide your time.  When she reaches the active labor stage she won't care who's in the room; if the janitor could get that baby out she'd let him take a crack at it.  So just wait until that point and barge right in.  She'll be grateful for the support that she didn't know she so desperately needed, and you can lord it over her for the rest of your life.

Or she might rip your face right off of your head.
 
2018-02-06 09:02:36 AM  
Fark them...
 
2018-02-06 09:10:27 AM  
I have, out of sheer curiosity, been reading the Reddit forums JUSTNOMIL and raisedbynarcissists (and in so doing I have gained a much deeper appreciation for my own family who, for all of the idiosyncrasies of its members, is filled with generally decent human beings), and the headline of this article alone reminds me of many of the stories of narcissist mothers and mothers-in-law.
 
2018-02-06 09:14:27 AM  
I've always wondered why people think child birth is a huge stage show. Yeah, I played beside coach for my two, but we would have never considered having anyone else there. Grandma was MUCH more useful at the house fixing dinner (which was greatly appreciated).
 
2018-02-06 09:14:36 AM  

Ambivalence: flucto: News flash: the would is filled with assholes. Film at 11, and 12, and 3:17, and 6:02, and 7:58...

Is that the British spelling?


reported for making fun of my speech impediment
 
2018-02-06 09:26:23 AM  
I'd call that a win and be glad I didn't have to suffer through witnessing all the disgusting parts of dropping a crotchfruit.
 
2018-02-06 09:30:17 AM  

LordZorch: I'd call that a win and be glad I didn't have to suffer through witnessing all the disgusting parts of dropping a crotchfruit.


I've witnessed two births and I would've gladly held steady at zero births...
 
2018-02-06 09:35:25 AM  
I didn't tell anyone until my son was actually born. Delivery can take forever and there can be complications. Didn't need anyone else worrying or coming to the hospital and bothering my wife.
 
2018-02-06 09:39:19 AM  
What about UncleMarty? Does he get to go? He'll bring cake.
 
2018-02-06 09:41:46 AM  
Oh FFS, it's a hospital room, not Woodstock.
 
2018-02-06 09:42:50 AM  

Dimensio: I have, out of sheer curiosity, been reading the Reddit forums JUSTNOMIL and raisedbynarcissists (and in so doing I have gained a much deeper appreciation for my own family who, for all of the idiosyncrasies of its members, is filled with generally decent human beings), and the headline of this article alone reminds me of many of the stories of narcissist mothers and mothers-in-law.


I'm going to waste my day reading this entire forum.
Jesus, people are terrible.
 
2018-02-06 09:52:06 AM  

no1curr: Woman sounds like a piece of work. "My first grandchild", "doesn't value me", etc. I'm thinking this lady is a grade A narcissist, who has probably pissed off the expecting couple on more than one occasion.


My exact thought and one founded in personal experience. The mother (grandma to be) is making this about herself. It isn't.

But, some people have a tremendous talent for doing that.
 
2018-02-06 09:52:34 AM  

Dallymo: Amityville Horror voice:  "Get out!"

Hey, Second-class Grandma, bide your time.  When she reaches the active labor stage she won't care who's in the room; if the janitor could get that baby out she'd let him take a crack at it.  So just wait until that point and barge right in.  She'll be grateful for the support that she didn't know she so desperately needed, and you can lord it over her for the rest of your life.

Or she might rip your face right off of your head.


You forgot b) and when straight to c).

I like that about you.
 
2018-02-06 09:53:05 AM  

demaL-demaL-yeH: Dallymo: Amityville Horror voice:  "Get out!"

Hey, Second-class Grandma, bide your time.  When she reaches the active labor stage she won't care who's in the room; if the janitor could get that baby out she'd let him take a crack at it.  So just wait until that point and barge right in.  She'll be grateful for the support that she didn't know she so desperately needed, and you can lord it over her for the rest of your life.

Or she might rip your face right off of your head.

You forgot b) and when straight to c).

I like that about you.


Went, dammit.
 
2018-02-06 09:53:17 AM  
Guys.
Prudie.
Fake.
 
2018-02-06 09:54:17 AM  

Ambivalence: Look, I've never been pregnant and I've never delivered a child and even I know that a woman in that situation may not want a bunch of people gathering around, listening to her screaming in pain while she passes a watermelon through her vajayjay.  But, when it does happen, some women want their mom around.  You're not her mom, so leave her alone.


My wife wanted her aunt and me in the delivery room.  Both our mom's sat in the waiting room.  When I told my mom she couldn't be in the room she said "why would I want to be?!"  Her 6th grandchild is going to be born today and she will be in the room with my SIL but not because my mom wants to be.

/I almost didn't make the cut because I kept saying "just breathe, buddy" for weeks running up to the birth.
 
2018-02-06 09:58:46 AM  

BalugaJoe: Stream it live on Facebook.


You joke. A friend of mine has a husband in ICU at the moment. She is posting 'updates' that include pics of him, passed out from drugs and all tubed up. I'm certain he's completely unaware of it.

I hope she has a decent lawyer.
 
2018-02-06 10:00:43 AM  

phenn: BalugaJoe: Stream it live on Facebook.

You joke. A friend of mine has a husband in ICU at the moment. She is posting 'updates' that include pics of him, passed out from drugs and all tubed up. I'm certain he's completely unaware of it.

I hope she has a decent lawyer.


You need pictures like that or nobody will contribute to your GoFundMe.
 
2018-02-06 10:01:53 AM  
I'm the dad, but my MIL wanted to be the first person to hold my kids when they were born. I told my wife, who for some reason thought this was a reasonable request, "No. No. You'll be drugged up so first will be me, then you, then me again until you are alert enough to not only hold her, but also comprehend the experience, then nana."
 
2018-02-06 10:10:51 AM  

no1curr: Woman sounds like a piece of work. "My first grandchild", "doesn't value me", etc. I'm thinking this lady is a grade A narcissist, who has probably pissed off the expecting couple on more than one occasion.


Yeah, my Dad is a complete Narcissist and I will NOT have him in my delivery room. He's also a doctor on top of it all too so he'll be extra demanding and grandstanding the whole time. Hell, I'm not going to tell him the due date on purpose in case he wants to visit me the week of.

I'm not having my nurse MIL in there either, she's not a narcissist but I don't want her running around all anxious and fussing about.

My current plan is to call the both of them after I have the baby, hell I ain't even pregnant yet and I've already planned it out.
 
2018-02-06 10:11:40 AM  
Don't bother. Cut them out of your will, and then call child services on them for what ever reason you can make up.
 
2018-02-06 10:12:17 AM  
Trust me, lady, you DON'T want to be in the delivery room.

*passes out from flashback*
 
2018-02-06 10:12:47 AM  

phenn: BalugaJoe: Stream it live on Facebook.

You joke. A friend of mine has a husband in ICU at the moment. She is posting 'updates' that include pics of him, passed out from drugs and all tubed up. I'm certain he's completely unaware of it.

I hope she has a decent lawyer.


I hope he gets better.
 
2018-02-06 10:19:03 AM  

bigfatbuddhist: LordZorch: I'd call that a win and be glad I didn't have to suffer through witnessing all the disgusting parts of dropping a crotchfruit.

I've witnessed two births and I would've gladly held steady at zero births...


I just had a neighbour recently launch into an overly detailed tale of the birth of her twins that occurred over thirty years ago. All I could think was dear god why on earth would she think I'm interested, please make her stop. Seriously, I don't even want to hear about all the gory details let alone witness any. Gah.
 
2018-02-06 10:19:10 AM  
Wife and I had our daughter in the '80's while in Grad School

She was in labor for about 20 hours and initially, was pretty much out of it.
OB kept sticking his head in and I was reading a book or maybe writing my thesis
He commented I was the calmest father he had ever seen... my comment back was I did my job 9 months ago, now it is your turn... he gave me a thumbs up while walking away laughing.

We didn't call her parents (three hours away in Fort Wayne) or my parents (six hours away in MI) until the next day just after our daughter was born.  We decided before the event that there was no way in Hell we wanted her parents or mine anywhere near the delivery room and both sets of parents were perfectly happy with that, even considering it was the first grandchild for both sides of the family.
 
2018-02-06 10:20:49 AM  

BalugaJoe: phenn: BalugaJoe: Stream it live on Facebook.

You joke. A friend of mine has a husband in ICU at the moment. She is posting 'updates' that include pics of him, passed out from drugs and all tubed up. I'm certain he's completely unaware of it.

I hope she has a decent lawyer.

I hope he gets better.


...and that he gets a better wife.
 
2018-02-06 10:22:20 AM  
Second-class grandma: I wish Prudie would get judgmental more often. There are people in this world who need it; hell, I've needed it more than once. Feelings can be invalid, and often, painful though it is to experience, a face full of JUDGE is the only way to get people to see that, especially in moments of manufactured emotional crisis.

Prudie's answer almost hits it out of the farking park. The only thing I would add is to point out that her son has no claim to any say in this decision, and thus it has absolutely no bearing on how much her son values her. It is grossly unfair to hold the daughter-in-law's reasonable boundaries against her, but at least she has agency in the matter, but it is even more unfair to hold it against someone who cannot influence things.

Truth: Your anger is reasonable. Telling her husband may be reasonable. But what you're talking about doing amounts to a kind of revenge porn. Not cool.

Bad sex: Honestly, it sounds to me like this guy used your friend to find a centerpiece for his rite of ascension to manhood. And now that he's imprinted upon his first, he's using your friend to stalk you. If you don't want to give the full explanation, tell her he creeped you out. It's not terribly kind, but it's true as far as it goes: he is being a creep.

"But you're so pretty": I don't think you're going to like it when I suggest enrolling your daughter in classes for a martial art or some other form of self-defense, but please hear me out. The goal is not to normalize the idea that she should have to "beat the boys off with a stick": she shouldn't have to. But she already understands that the time may come anyway, when she may in fact have to fight. Learning how to handle herself in such a situation will help her overcome her fear at the very least, and could well save her life.

I do disagree with Prudie about the suggestion of counseling (which Prudie deemed unnecessary, and seemed to have taken offense). Her reaction to the group does sound like an alarm bell. It may turn out to be nothing, but it may uncover something that needs to be addressed, and even if it doesn't, it shouldn't do any harm.

Does not having a job make me a leech?: There's a term that is gaining traction: "NEET", which stands for Not in Education, Employment, or Training. I don't actually like the term very much, because it leaves out a number of perfectly valid paths and circumstances -retirement, disability, homemaking, et cetera- that people don't usually mean to call NEETs, even though the term technically would do so. But I don't make up the language or define the trends.

But as incomplete as the term is, note that it includes Education. You are not a leech. They do exist, but that's not you.
 
2018-02-06 10:29:58 AM  

dletter: Ambivalence: Look, I've never been pregnant and I've never delivered a child and even I know that a woman in that situation may not want a bunch of people gathering around, listening to her screaming in pain while she passes a watermelon through her vajayjay.  But, when it does happen, some women want their mom around.  You're not her mom, so leave her alone.

Totally reasonable thing a person would think.   Some people are not reasonable and only think about things in context of how affects them personally.  Some people like that even make it to very high political office.


And the people like the grandmother in the article vote for narcissistic sociopaths as well.
 
2018-02-06 10:34:00 AM  
Fussy, entitled women are a pain in the ass.
 
2018-02-06 10:34:01 AM  

Millennium: "But you're so pretty": I don't think you're going to like it when I suggest enrolling your daughter in classes for a martial art or some other form of self-defense, but please hear me out. The goal is not to normalize the idea that she should have to "beat the boys off with a stick": she shouldn't have to. But she already understands that the time may come anyway, when she may in fact have to fight. Learning how to handle herself in such a situation will help her overcome her fear at the very least, and could well save her life.

I do disagree with Prudie about the suggestion of counseling (which Prudie deemed unnecessary, and seemed to have taken offense). Her reaction to the group does sound like an alarm bell. It may turn out to be nothing, but it may uncover something that needs to be addressed, and even if it doesn't, it shouldn't do any harm.


I'd also encourage her to take an improv class to go with the self-defense class.  Many of the ones who aren't physically threatening but still pestering horn-dogs can be cut off at the knees by a scathing retort or a sharp look.
 
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