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(Gizmodo)   Hoping to upload your mind to a new body someday? Here comes the neuroscience   ( gizmodo.com) divider line
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1256 clicks; posted to Geek » on 05 Feb 2018 at 8:05 PM (23 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2018-02-05 04:24:57 PM  
Oblig:
Welcome to Life: the singularity, ruined by lawyers
Youtube IFe9wiDfb0E
 
2018-02-05 04:52:18 PM  
It's also a great way to become a space-faring species. Get rid of the problems of thousand year space flights, just load consciousness onto a bunch of hard-drives, load some resilient robot bodies, put in sleep mode, and wake when we get there.

We won't be something we'd call human, maybe we should be Homo Sapien Teknia or something.
 
2018-02-05 05:06:46 PM  
I'd rather die:

img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2018-02-05 05:23:25 PM  
What you might look like if you could upload your mind into another body:
img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2018-02-05 06:06:31 PM  
img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2018-02-05 08:10:26 PM  
A math coprocessor will do for now, thanks.
 
2018-02-05 08:13:56 PM  

nmrsnr: We won't be something we'd call human, maybe we should be Homo Sapien Teknia or something.


I always liked the old Exosquad "neo sapien" terminology, as the resulting life form wouldn't necessarily need to be in the Homo genus. Hell, if we're doing brain emulation on a computer, we'd probably need a new entry at the Kingdom or Domain level.

We also need a method of "upload" that doesn't equate to "copy and destroy the original"; unless you're okay balancing the equation.
 
2018-02-05 08:24:47 PM  
upload.wikimedia.orgView Full Size
 
2018-02-05 08:30:56 PM  
And wind up in a shiatty Emilio Estevez movie? No thanks

http://www.earwolf.com/episode/freeja​c​k-live/
 
2018-02-05 08:31:07 PM  

Flt209er: We also need a method of "upload" that doesn't equate to "copy and destroy the original"; unless you're okay balancing the equation.

I don't really see any way around this. If you can't transfer the stream of consciousness -the sense of yourself as yourself- then you aren't uploading, you're creating new people with each procedure. The thought of splitting a stream of consciousness across both locations is intriguing, but even if it were feasible to arrange, how would a human psyche deal with being in two places at once?
 
2018-02-05 08:39:00 PM  
Matt Frewer in Altered Carbon was a huge treat.
 
2018-02-05 08:42:57 PM  
Yeah, except it's not you. ItsI a copy of you
 
2018-02-05 08:51:02 PM  
And wind up in a teddy bear watching my spouse gettin' busy with someone else?

Eh, sure, why not.
 
2018-02-05 09:03:13 PM  

Millennium: Flt209er: We also need a method of "upload" that doesn't equate to "copy and destroy the original"; unless you're okay balancing the equation.
I don't really see any way around this. If you can't transfer the stream of consciousness -the sense of yourself as yourself- then you aren't uploading, you're creating new people with each procedure. The thought of splitting a stream of consciousness across both locations is intriguing, but even if it were feasible to arrange, how would a human psyche deal with being in two places at once?


Nor do I, at least not without defining "upload" to mean "complete brain transplant". But, then again we really don't understand what consciousness is very well. Give it a couple hundred years and maybe we'll have more options.
 
2018-02-05 09:05:20 PM  
It won't work. Can't fit a star-shaped peg into a square-shaped hole.
 
2018-02-05 09:07:05 PM  
Millennium: Flt209er: We also need a method of "upload" that doesn't equate to "copy and destroy the original"; unless you're okay balancing the equation.
I don't really see any way around this. If you can't transfer the stream of consciousness -the sense of yourself as yourself- then you aren't uploading, you're creating new people with each procedure. The thought of splitting a stream of consciousness across both locations is intriguing, but even if it were feasible to arrange, how would a human psyche deal with being in two places at once?


replace it neuron by neuron
 
2018-02-05 09:08:31 PM  
The Bobiverse explored it... if not well, then at least fun. Living forever could suck. Maybe if I could skip winters.

Maybe a project oriented lifestyle, move from one thing to another without falling into a grind.
 
2018-02-05 09:10:57 PM  
Monkey wants a hug. :(
 
2018-02-05 09:14:40 PM  

albuquerquehalsey: Millennium: Flt209er: We also need a method of "upload" that doesn't equate to "copy and destroy the original"; unless you're okay balancing the equation.
I don't really see any way around this. If you can't transfer the stream of consciousness -the sense of yourself as yourself- then you aren't uploading, you're creating new people with each procedure. The thought of splitting a stream of consciousness across both locations is intriguing, but even if it were feasible to arrange, how would a human psyche deal with being in two places at once?

replace it neuron by neuron


Every cell in your body was once not alive and will die.

The concept of an emergent property requires these cells acting in tandem.

The reason why our aging relatives seem strange is because the emergent property of their cells has vanished and been replaced by new ones. They know not who they were.

You idiots want to live forever. The smart humans wish for death.
 
2018-02-05 09:18:17 PM  

Znuh: Matt Frewer in Altered Carbon was a huge treat.


Just discovered Altered Carbon the other day and loving it so far.
 
2018-02-05 09:19:33 PM  
I'll give you an argument against keeping personalities alive forever. Imagine if Thomas Jefferson was still around and active. Looks like a cool dude from 200 years, but he's an unwashed, miseducated racist with a hard-on against England.
 
2018-02-05 09:34:34 PM  

casual disregard: albuquerquehalsey: Millennium: Flt209er: We also need a method of "upload" that doesn't equate to "copy and destroy the original"; unless you're okay balancing the equation.
I don't really see any way around this. If you can't transfer the stream of consciousness -the sense of yourself as yourself- then you aren't uploading, you're creating new people with each procedure. The thought of splitting a stream of consciousness across both locations is intriguing, but even if it were feasible to arrange, how would a human psyche deal with being in two places at once?

replace it neuron by neuron

Every cell in your body was once not alive and will die.

The concept of an emergent property requires these cells acting in tandem.

The reason why our aging relatives seem strange is because the emergent property of their cells has vanished and been replaced by new ones. They know not who they were.

You idiots want to live forever. The smart humans wish for death.


a ship sails, port to port
At each port, planks replaced, ropes respun, sails stitched

After how many planks is the ship

Anew

Am drunk enough to post here, but not enough to post a cogennt point?
Answer: I am on fark. I need thunderbird and/or whiskey.

/thanks you dionysus for your guidance.
 
2018-02-05 09:39:23 PM  

zjoik: casual disregard: albuquerquehalsey: Millennium: Flt209er: We also need a method of "upload" that doesn't equate to "copy and destroy the original"; unless you're okay balancing the equation.
I don't really see any way around this. If you can't transfer the stream of consciousness -the sense of yourself as yourself- then you aren't uploading, you're creating new people with each procedure. The thought of splitting a stream of consciousness across both locations is intriguing, but even if it were feasible to arrange, how would a human psyche deal with being in two places at once?

replace it neuron by neuron

Every cell in your body was once not alive and will die.

The concept of an emergent property requires these cells acting in tandem.

The reason why our aging relatives seem strange is because the emergent property of their cells has vanished and been replaced by new ones. They know not who they were.

You idiots want to live forever. The smart humans wish for death.

a ship sails, port to port
At each port, planks replaced, ropes respun, sails stitched

After how many planks is the ship

Anew

Am drunk enough to post here, but not enough to post a cogennt point?
Answer: I am on fark. I need thunderbird and/or whiskey.

/thanks you dionysus for your guidance.


Theseus can suck my second dick.
 
2018-02-05 09:56:26 PM  
I thought Soma did a nice job of exploring the problems with a digital version of your brain and consciousness as an emergent property.  Though I was a little disappointed in the main character's lack of philosophical understanding at the ending.

The first version would be a separate being from you.  But perhaps, once digital, some way of transferring an unbroken consciousness to new hardware could be done.  Thus preserving the new "you" for eternity-ish... barring legal disputes and battery failure.
 
2018-02-05 09:58:09 PM  
img.fark.netView Full Size


I think I'll pass.
 
2018-02-05 10:01:52 PM  

casual disregard: zjoik: casual disregard: albuquerquehalsey: Millennium: Flt209er: We also need a method of "upload" that doesn't equate to "copy and destroy the original"; unless you're okay balancing the equation.
I don't really see any way around this. If you can't transfer the stream of consciousness -the sense of yourself as yourself- then you aren't uploading, you're creating new people with each procedure. The thought of splitting a stream of consciousness across both locations is intriguing, but even if it were feasible to arrange, how would a human psyche deal with being in two places at once?

replace it neuron by neuron

Every cell in your body was once not alive and will die.

The concept of an emergent property requires these cells acting in tandem.

The reason why our aging relatives seem strange is because the emergent property of their cells has vanished and been replaced by new ones. They know not who they were.

You idiots want to live forever. The smart humans wish for death.

a ship sails, port to port
At each port, planks replaced, ropes respun, sails stitched

After how many planks is the ship

Anew

Am drunk enough to post here, but not enough to post a cogennt point?
Answer: I am on fark. I need thunderbird and/or whiskey.

/thanks you dionysus for your guidance.

Theseus can suck my second dick.


thefisheriesblog.files.wordpress.comView Full Size

Thatsthejoke.jpeg
 
2018-02-05 10:01:57 PM  

ptelg: Yeah, except it's not you. ItsI a copy of you


What is the difference between me and a copy of me that thinks it is me?
If you're going by physical body, you are not the same person you were ~10 years ago, as you contain little to none of the same cells/molecules/matter you did then.
If you're going by "soul" or some other such immaterial aspect...who are you to say that an electronic copy of me doesn't share my soul (if I'm still alive), inherit it (if I am not), or have a soul of its own?

I'd be perfectly ok with a "copy" of me existing after I die, because it would be, as far as I am concerned, me.
 
2018-02-05 10:07:54 PM  
Can't download something that doesn't exist.
 
2018-02-05 10:16:21 PM  
Stomach replaces its self within a finite amoubnt of time
The taste buds, 7 years, completely different cells

There is a known stability of carbon aTom arrangement, it changes

All life, presently defined terra firma, carbon chains
 
2018-02-05 10:19:58 PM  

zjoik: Stomach replaces its self within a finite amoubnt of time
The taste buds, 7 years, completely different cells

There is a known stability of carbon aTom arrangement, it changes

All life, presently defined terra firma, carbon chains


Most people lose their stream of conciousness every 24 hours when they go to sleep.  Who knows if the person that wakes up is the same person that went to sleep?
 
2018-02-05 10:23:10 PM  
I can see there being a gradual transition to human machine intelligence through cybernetic enhancement. Probably starting as ways to treat neurodegenerative diseases as well as allowing mind-to-machine interfacing.  Create something that gradually replaces decaying biological neurons with digital counterparts so that things like dementia and Alzheimer's is a thing of the past, as well allow for digital interfacing where a lot of our mental computations take place in a machine to augment our intelligence making learning new tasks as simple as installing new software. It would also give us more storage capacity and better search and recall functions as memory would be a precise digital copy and not simply an every changing loop of neural activity that does it's best to remember what it did last time it cycled through the memory. Plenty of backups could exist so if anything happened to the computer running most of your mind or even whatever is left of your original mind gets damaged you can be restored on new hardware. Probably eventually the part of your brain that was once meat will be obsolete and upgraded completely and you'll really be living in a Matrioshka brain living and entire simulated lifetime in the blink of an eye for no other reason than the experience. If fact you can't know you're not doing that right now.
 
2018-02-05 10:29:50 PM  

Millennium: Flt209er: We also need a method of "upload" that doesn't equate to "copy and destroy the original"; unless you're okay balancing the equation.
I don't really see any way around this. If you can't transfer the stream of consciousness -the sense of yourself as yourself- then you aren't uploading, you're creating new people with each procedure. The thought of splitting a stream of consciousness across both locations is intriguing, but even if it were feasible to arrange, how would a human psyche deal with being in two places at once?


I can jack it and talk on the phone to telemarketers at the same time, sort of like that
 
2018-02-05 10:31:05 PM  
The funny thing about minds is everyone seems to take their ontology for granted, that they're something that obviously exists. But they don't, at least not anyone than other convenient and effective social construct like money. Even our self-called subjectivity is really just an easy way to navigate socal spaces. Of course it seems real, but so do black holes, gluons, and rainbows.

It's not meat, it's not a program or a set of data, but a force of habit and acculturation.
 
2018-02-05 10:33:19 PM  

nmrsnr: It's also a great way to become a space-faring species. Get rid of the problems of thousand year space flights, just load consciousness onto a bunch of hard-drives, load some resilient robot bodies, put in sleep mode, and wake when we get there.

We won't be something we'd call human, maybe we should be Homo Sapien Teknia or something.


I don't know, man, scanners live in vain.
 
2018-02-05 11:17:02 PM  

casual disregard: It won't work. Can't fit a star-shaped peg into a square-shaped hole.


blogs.smithsonianmag.comView Full Size

Challenge accepted
 
2018-02-05 11:29:03 PM  
Uploading is nice but it just creates a copy and does nothing for my original body but if my original body or at least the brain and other possible data processing parts could be connected to some robot parts that would be much cooler and I can finally live out my cyborg dreams.
 
2018-02-05 11:32:45 PM  

Ghastly: I can see there being a gradual transition to human machine intelligence through cybernetic enhancement. Probably starting as ways to treat neurodegenerative diseases as well as allowing mind-to-machine interfacing.  Create something that gradually replaces decaying biological neurons with digital counterparts so that things like dementia and Alzheimer's is a thing of the past, as well allow for digital interfacing where a lot of our mental computations take place in a machine to augment our intelligence making learning new tasks as simple as installing new software. It would also give us more storage capacity and better search and recall functions as memory would be a precise digital copy and not simply an every changing loop of neural activity that does it's best to remember what it did last time it cycled through the memory. Plenty of backups could exist so if anything happened to the computer running most of your mind or even whatever is left of your original mind gets damaged you can be restored on new hardware. Probably eventually the part of your brain that was once meat will be obsolete and upgraded completely and you'll really be living in a Matrioshka brain living and entire simulated lifetime in the blink of an eye for no other reason than the experience. If fact you can't know you're not doing that right now.


Can you have an incest orgy with a fractal gangbang of yourself?
 
2018-02-05 11:49:59 PM  
Susumu Hirasawa - Cyborg + Credits (Live 1990)
Youtube 9xk2CyXH2F8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqegO​p​eP9bc
 
2018-02-06 12:19:22 AM  

Hawkin: ptelg: Yeah, except it's not you. ItsI a copy of you

What is the difference between me and a copy of me that thinks it is me?


The same difference between you and anyone else; it isn't you, no matter how much others, including itself, thinks it is.

You?  You're dead.

I mean, that's kind of inherent in the term "copy": it isn't the original.  To others it may be just as useful as the original, but it isn't the original.

So I do agree with you on one thing: I, too, would be perfectly ok with a "copy" of me existing after I die because I don't really gaf what goes on after I die.  By the same token, I see no need to create a copy to live on after I pass -- it does me no good.
 
2018-02-06 12:26:33 AM  
Maybe, once we figure out exactly how consciousness works, we'll be able to figure out how to move it to different hardware.

If we do, as far as I'm concerned there are zero ethical reasons not to, and every reason to do it.
 
2018-02-06 12:30:41 AM  

Nurglitch: It's not meat, it's not a program or a set of data, but a force of habit and acculturation.


So, if it be cultural, show me the group of people who lack subjective consciousness. Difficulty: no Trump voters.
 
2018-02-06 12:33:16 AM  
I find it interesting that the only guy they asked in TFA who said "Yes, definitely!" was the guy with a product to hawk.

The guy who said "LOLno." isn't trying to sell something...
 
2018-02-06 02:11:25 AM  

Hawkin: ptelg: Yeah, except it's not you. ItsI a copy of you

What is the difference between me and a copy of me that thinks it is me?
If you're going by physical body, you are not the same person you were ~10 years ago, as you contain little to none of the same cells/molecules/matter you did then.
If you're going by "soul" or some other such immaterial aspect...who are you to say that an electronic copy of me doesn't share my soul (if I'm still alive), inherit it (if I am not), or have a soul of its own?

I'd be perfectly ok with a "copy" of me existing after I die, because it would be, as far as I am concerned, me.


Good news!  I've just made a copy of you, based off scans from your last medical exam, and this copy is clearly superior to you, by over 1%.  1% smarter, stronger, and so on.

So we're just going to need you to stop by the lab so we can kill you.  Don't worry, it won't hurt a bit.  We can't very well have two of you running around can we?  Now just lay down on this table and we're going to inject you with fatal poison.
 
2018-02-06 03:01:14 AM  

Ghastly: I can see there being a gradual transition to human machine intelligence through cybernetic enhancement. Probably starting as ways to treat neurodegenerative diseases as well as allowing mind-to-machine interfacing.  Create something that gradually replaces decaying biological neurons with digital counterparts so that things like dementia and Alzheimer's is a thing of the past, as well allow for digital interfacing where a lot of our mental computations take place in a machine to augment our intelligence making learning new tasks as simple as installing new software. It would also give us more storage capacity and better search and recall functions as memory would be a precise digital copy and not simply an every changing loop of neural activity that does it's best to remember what it did last time it cycled through the memory. Plenty of backups could exist so if anything happened to the computer running most of your mind or even whatever is left of your original mind gets damaged you can be restored on new hardware. Probably eventually the part of your brain that was once meat will be obsolete and upgraded completely and you'll really be living in a Matrioshka brain living and entire simulated lifetime in the blink of an eye for no other reason than the experience. If fact you can't know you're not doing that right now.


i.redd.itView Full Size
 
2018-02-06 05:12:01 AM  

Ghastly: Create something that gradually replaces decaying biological neurons with digital counterparts


Again, we are not digital. I know I am not saying what you all want to hear, but it is glaringly obvious.
 
2018-02-06 06:33:08 AM  

johnphantom: Ghastly: Create something that gradually replaces decaying biological neurons with digital counterparts

Again, we are not digital. I know I am not saying what you all want to hear, but it is glaringly obvious.


No, we're analogue but we'd be better digital.
 
2018-02-06 06:41:24 AM  

Ghastly: johnphantom: Ghastly: Create something that gradually replaces decaying biological neurons with digital counterparts

Again, we are not digital. I know I am not saying what you all want to hear, but it is glaringly obvious.

No, we're analogue but we'd be better digital.


Digital will never be synthetically conscious - there is absolutely nothing digital made through nature. Converting analog to digital is only an approximation of reality.
 
2018-02-06 07:13:29 AM  
I should note that digital computers definitely have a place - the skill of a Church-Turing based computer at sorting and retrieving information is incredible (compared to, say, humans doing it by hand a hundred years ago) and I am sure we will eventually have them implanted into our brain as a directly accessible information source.

Replacing our brain cells with fully digital ones (I'm not saying some sort of hybrid with analog and digital would not be possible) will not work. Digital and analog are apples and oranges.

At any rate, I think the best thing to pursue for longevity is to research replacing our cells with identical cells - I find stem cells to be interesting and promising.
 
KIA
2018-02-06 07:38:21 AM  
I'll just take the nanotech upgrade to the existing body for now, thanks. Make me immortal and I'll have plenty of time to figure out the rest. People like me need more than 3 or 4 good decades as an adult to really get their shiat together.

The part about needing better perception to really evolve seems important too.
 
2018-02-06 11:17:00 AM  
Upload? No. That would be a copy.

Transfer the brain into a new body? Yes. That would be me, sans the arthritic meatsack that has held me back most of my life. I'd sign up in a heartbeat if I knew it was 100% possible and safe. However, being a vain person who is happy with my face, I'd want that face again. A new body that looks like someone else would drive me crazy (been there, done that... Long story) and I've no wish to go that route. I'd want a younger, healthier clone of myself as the new body.

Of course, that gets us into the ethics of cloning a person only to replace that clone's brain with an older one, or (somehow) cloning people with empty skulls fit for brains to be dropped in. Either way, it's messy from all angles and not something humanity will be doing any time soon. At least not unless you're fabulously wealthy and can dodge things like ethics, morality, and societal laws to get what you want.
 
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