If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(Space.com)   32 years after the Challenger explosion, Christa McAuliffe's planned lessons will be filmed on the ISS   ( space.com) divider line
    More: Hero, Space Shuttle Challenger disaster, Christa McAuliffe, space shuttle challenger, space station, Space Shuttle, late Christa McAuliffe, Space Shuttle Columbia, STS-51-L  
•       •       •

865 clicks; posted to Geek » on 22 Jan 2018 at 12:05 PM (24 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



53 Comments     (+0 »)
 
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


Oldest | « | 1 | 2 | » | Newest | Show all

 
2018-01-22 11:55:22 AM  
I hope one of them was the effects of microgravity on blew eyes.
 
M-G
2018-01-22 12:08:04 PM  

BKITU: I hope one of them was the effects of microgravity on blew eyes.


Or dandruff treatment.
 
2018-01-22 12:08:46 PM  

BKITU: I hope one of them was the effects of microgravity on blew eyes.

Sickened, yet chuckled. Aisle seat.plz.
 
2018-01-22 12:18:12 PM  
img.fark.netView Full Size


YOUR CHALLENGER A SPLODE...
 
2018-01-22 12:21:54 PM  

M-G: BKITU: I hope one of them was the effects of microgravity on blew eyes.

Or dandruff treatment.


This button do?, seven astronauts, etc etc etc.

Went to a middle school renamed in her honor...  I've forgotten more of 'em than most people know existed.

Also, it was a dumb, calendar-driven publicity stunt.  And a great example of how, sometimes, civility, bureaucracy, and following the rules can be -very- dangerous.

/ the hard part is knowing when it's one of those times
 
2018-01-22 12:24:55 PM  
Does one of those experiments include what happens when the O rings freeze in a pressure vessel?
 
2018-01-22 12:25:38 PM  
Great. Round up her students so they can finally take that last science test that kept them from getting their diplomas.
 
2018-01-22 12:26:31 PM  
Have told the story before, but I was just down the Indian River watching the launch from a classroom window.  It definitely was cold that morning and they shouldn't have launched but it had been scrubbed twice and as this was a high visiblity PR mission their was political pressure to liftoff.
 
2018-01-22 12:27:54 PM  
And we may get to miss it because NASA's TV service is likely to be classified as "non-essential" during this idiotic shutdown.
 
2018-01-22 12:32:27 PM  

SFSailor: M-G: BKITU: I hope one of them was the effects of microgravity on blew eyes.

Or dandruff treatment.

This button do?, seven astronauts, etc etc etc.

Went to a middle school renamed in her honor...  I've forgotten more of 'em than most people know existed.

Also, it was a dumb, calendar-driven publicity stunt.  And a great example of how, sometimes, civility, bureaucracy, and following the rules can be -very- dangerous.

/ the hard part is knowing when it's one of those times


actually they didn't follow the rules did they?  wasn't there a no go based on the temperature and it was overridden?
 
2018-01-22 12:35:55 PM  

theresnothinglft: Does one of those experiments include what happens when the O rings freeze in a pressure vessel?


No but there is one on gluing heat tiles
 
2018-01-22 12:39:49 PM  

StrikitRich: It definitely was cold that morning and they shouldn't have launched but it had been scrubbed twice and as this was a high visiblity PR mission their was political pressure to liftoff.



read where they pushed the mission despite multiple no-go's from NASA, because Reagan was going to give his SOTU that day.  they wanted to be able to say in the SOTU how they hit some nice round number of space shuttle launches, "the 30th launch, isn't this just the cat's ass?" or whatever.

knew a guy in the navy that claimed he was on the recovery crew.  claimed to have recovered body parts.  'it was farking disgusting, man....just farking.........body parts just everywhere, man......it was just...........gaaaah.  i don't evn like thinking about it....."  not sure if i believed him.
 
2018-01-22 12:40:01 PM  

You Are All Sheep: SFSailor: M-G: BKITU: I hope one of them was the effects of microgravity on blew eyes.

Or dandruff treatment.

This button do?, seven astronauts, etc etc etc.

Went to a middle school renamed in her honor...  I've forgotten more of 'em than most people know existed.

Also, it was a dumb, calendar-driven publicity stunt.  And a great example of how, sometimes, civility, bureaucracy, and following the rules can be -very- dangerous.

/ the hard part is knowing when it's one of those times

actually they didn't follow the rules did they?  wasn't there a no go based on the temperature and it was overridden?


Correct. They were out of bounds on the O-ring temps.
 
2018-01-22 12:41:11 PM  

wjllope: theresnothinglft: Does one of those experiments include what happens when the O rings freeze in a pressure vessel?

No but there is one on gluing heat tiles


Fark that. The glue was fine. Next time, lets try NOT beating the tiles with a sledgehammer on launch, m'kay..?
 
2018-01-22 12:43:04 PM  
It never amazes me the amount of complete and utter ignorance, horse blinder wearing and oversights that lead to the Challenger disaster.. Equally as disturbing is the same bullshiat shiat that contributed to the Columbia disaster was actually worse than the Challenger disaster.

If any of you never have.. You should real detailed reports of what lead up to both... They weren't accidents. It was manslaughter.
 
2018-01-22 12:43:29 PM  

SFSailor: M-G: BKITU: I hope one of them was the effects of microgravity on blew eyes.

Or dandruff treatment.

This button do?, seven astronauts, etc etc etc.

Went to a middle school renamed in her honor...  I've forgotten more of 'em than most people know existed.

Also, it was a dumb, calendar-driven publicity stunt.  And a great example of how, sometimes, civility, bureaucracy, and following the rules can be -very- dangerous.

/ the hard part is knowing when it's one of those times


HEr husband fed the dog and she fed the fish.

images-na.ssl-images-amazon.comView Full Size
 
2018-01-22 12:44:14 PM  
No, the launch decision wasn't made out of political pressure, and no, they didn't break any rules about cold temperatures.  The problem was that there weren't any hard rules about temperature, and the engineers weren't able to convince the managers that there was a serious risk from the data they had.  The managers understood there was some risk but believed the data were ambiguous and didn't justify scrubbing the launch.
 
2018-01-22 12:44:59 PM  
Sad irony:  She had a class where she taught her students how to properly inspect O-Rings.  Kids signed up thinking they were getting an education in onion ring inspections (a skill that guaranteed an Assistant Manager's job at Burger King) but got bummed as they discovered it was O-Rings.
 
2018-01-22 12:48:12 PM  

the_innkeeper: wjllope: theresnothinglft: Does one of those experiments include what happens when the O rings freeze in a pressure vessel?

No but there is one on gluing heat tiles

Fark that. The glue was fine. Next time, lets try NOT beating the tiles with a sledgehammer on launch, m'kay..?


I remember the issue was the glue dried quickly, so the technicians would spit on it to keep it lubricated.
 
2018-01-22 12:56:03 PM  

styckx: Equally as disturbing is the same bullshiat shiat that contributed to the Columbia disaster was actually worse than the Challenger disaster.


my memory of that is being pretty hung over.....my grandfather had just died, and the night before his funeral his sons - that is, my uncles -- decided to have a huge bonfire out in the middle of the desert, like an irish wake if you will.  we told stories, we laughed out farking loud, we cried, etc.  i don't recall how i got to the motel......

next morning wife wakes me up, "the space shuttle exploded, get up?"  i was like, 'uh..........wtf is going on?  challenger?  that was godamned 15 years ago.  WTF is she talking about?  christ my head hurts...."  then i saw the TV.  surreal.

/about a week later caught bob weir's post-GD band ratdog in Tempe.  they played one of Jerry's last 'big' ballads:  "Standing on the Moon".  I think everyone was thinking of the Columbia at that moment.

Standing on the moon
I see the battle rage below
Standing on the moon
I see the soldiers come and go
There's a metal flag beside me
Someone planted long ago
Old Glory standing stiffly
Crimson, white and indigo - indigo
 
2018-01-22 12:56:40 PM  

mcreadyblue: the_innkeeper: wjllope: theresnothinglft: Does one of those experiments include what happens when the O rings freeze in a pressure vessel?

No but there is one on gluing heat tiles

Fark that. The glue was fine. Next time, lets try NOT beating the tiles with a sledgehammer on launch, m'kay..?

I remember the issue was the glue dried quickly, so the technicians would spit on it to keep it lubricated.


Separate issue from having the tiles struck at trans- and supersonic speeds by hard foam. Foam strikes were a known issues since pretty much day 1, but since nothing bad happened, there was "no issue".

Until the foam punched through a RCC wing edge.
 
2018-01-22 12:59:03 PM  

rickythepenguin: styckx: Equally as disturbing is the same bullshiat shiat that contributed to the Columbia disaster was actually worse than the Challenger disaster.

my memory of that is being pretty hung over.....my grandfather had just died, and the night before his funeral his sons - that is, my uncles -- decided to have a huge bonfire out in the middle of the desert, like an irish wake if you will.  we told stories, we laughed out farking loud, we cried, etc.  i don't recall how i got to the motel......

next morning wife wakes me up, "the space shuttle exploded, get up?"  i was like, 'uh..........wtf is going on?  challenger?  that was godamned 15 years ago.  WTF is she talking about?  christ my head hurts...."  then i saw the TV.  surreal.

/about a week later caught bob weir's post-GD band ratdog in Tempe.  they played one of Jerry's last 'big' ballads:  "Standing on the Moon".  I think everyone was thinking of the Columbia at that moment.

Standing on the moon
I see the battle rage below
Standing on the moon
I see the soldiers come and go
There's a metal flag beside me
Someone planted long ago
Old Glory standing stiffly
Crimson, white and indigo - indigo


I was transferring from Norfolk to England, and saw the debris streaks on the news in the Atlanta airport. Was sad that we lost another one. 

Then I was farking pissed that it was "human error" again.
 
2018-01-22 01:02:03 PM  

the_innkeeper: rickythepenguin: styckx: Equally as disturbing is the same bullshiat shiat that contributed to the Columbia disaster was actually worse than the Challenger disaster.

my memory of that is being pretty hung over.....my grandfather had just died, and the night before his funeral his sons - that is, my uncles -- decided to have a huge bonfire out in the middle of the desert, like an irish wake if you will.  we told stories, we laughed out farking loud, we cried, etc.  i don't recall how i got to the motel......

next morning wife wakes me up, "the space shuttle exploded, get up?"  i was like, 'uh..........wtf is going on?  challenger?  that was godamned 15 years ago.  WTF is she talking about?  christ my head hurts...."  then i saw the TV.  surreal.

/about a week later caught bob weir's post-GD band ratdog in Tempe.  they played one of Jerry's last 'big' ballads:  "Standing on the Moon".  I think everyone was thinking of the Columbia at that moment.

Standing on the moon
I see the battle rage below
Standing on the moon
I see the soldiers come and go
There's a metal flag beside me
Someone planted long ago
Old Glory standing stiffly
Crimson, white and indigo - indigo

I was transferring from Norfolk to England, and saw the debris streaks on the news in the Atlanta airport. Was sad that we lost another one. 

Then I was farking pissed that it was "human error" again.


It was a PowerPoint error:

https://www.edwardtufte.com/bboard/q-​a​nd-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=0001yB&topic_id=​1
 
2018-01-22 01:06:15 PM  

mcreadyblue: the_innkeeper: rickythepenguin: styckx: Equally as disturbing is the same bullshiat shiat that contributed to the Columbia disaster was actually worse than the Challenger disaster.

my memory of that is being pretty hung over.....my grandfather had just died, and the night before his funeral his sons - that is, my uncles -- decided to have a huge bonfire out in the middle of the desert, like an irish wake if you will.  we told stories, we laughed out farking loud, we cried, etc.  i don't recall how i got to the motel......

next morning wife wakes me up, "the space shuttle exploded, get up?"  i was like, 'uh..........wtf is going on?  challenger?  that was godamned 15 years ago.  WTF is she talking about?  christ my head hurts...."  then i saw the TV.  surreal.

/about a week later caught bob weir's post-GD band ratdog in Tempe.  they played one of Jerry's last 'big' ballads:  "Standing on the Moon".  I think everyone was thinking of the Columbia at that moment.

Standing on the moon
I see the battle rage below
Standing on the moon
I see the soldiers come and go
There's a metal flag beside me
Someone planted long ago
Old Glory standing stiffly
Crimson, white and indigo - indigo

I was transferring from Norfolk to England, and saw the debris streaks on the news in the Atlanta airport. Was sad that we lost another one. 

Then I was farking pissed that it was "human error" again.

It was a PowerPoint error:

https://www.edwardtufte.com/bboard/q-a​nd-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=0001yB&topic_id=​1


Having used, and still use, PP to determine path forward on some comparable systems... yeah...
 
2018-01-22 01:13:20 PM  

rickythepenguin: knew a guy in the navy that claimed he was on the recovery crew. claimed to have recovered body parts. 'it was farking disgusting, man....just farking.........body parts just everywhere, man......it was just...........gaaaah. i don't evn like thinking about it....." not sure if i believed him.


The crew compartment was recovered partially intact, including remains.  Note, not "bodies" but "remains".  The compartment hit the surface of the water at over a hundred miles per hour, after having been blown off of an exploding rocket and breached in low atmosphere.  For a similar effect, stick a couple of carrots in a blender and pulse it for a second.

Whether your friend is specifically to be believed, I can't say.  But the statement would be consistent with what is known.
 
2018-01-22 01:21:36 PM  
Too soon.  guys... all of ya'.
 
2018-01-22 01:29:17 PM  
On a separate note, there's a direct link between the Challenger explosion and the fact that I'm currently pursuing a degree in astronautics.  That event is part of a series that I think led to most people abandoning their hopes and dreams.  That needs to change.

/"... for each age is a dream that is dying, or one that is coming to birth..."
//"...but something ere the end, some work of noble note, may yet be done, not unbecoming men that strove with Gods..."
///"... not because they are easy, but because they are hard..."
 
2018-01-22 01:35:47 PM  
If you are in or plan on visiting Burbank, I'd suggest visiting the Shrine to Aviation. It's a gorgeous memorial that honors pioneers in aviation as well as a memorial for those who perished in space exploration. The replica space shuttle has the names of the astronauts on both the Challenger and Columbia disasters.

farm4.staticflickr.comView Full Size
 
2018-01-22 01:48:33 PM  

Ambitwistor: No, the launch decision wasn't made out of political pressure, and no, they didn't break any rules about cold temperatures.  The problem was that there weren't any hard rules about temperature, and the engineers weren't able to convince the managers that there was a serious risk from the data they had.  The managers understood there was some risk but believed the data were ambiguous and didn't justify scrubbing the launch.


This.  The conclusions would have been obvious had they showed it usefully.  The temperatures we were dealing with were off the scale from an obvious safety perspective, but the data they were using to justify it was scattered and unintuitive to someone making the judgment, so it was brushed aside.  There have been many articles on it, and it has practically become the go-to story of why visualization in data science and analytics is extremely important.  In short, a single graph shown to leadership would have scrubbed the launch and saved seven lives.

http://www.asktog.com/books/challenge​r​Exerpt.html

There's also an amazing section on the internal failures of NASA detailed in Richard Feynman's book "What Do You Care What Other People Think?".  A great read that shows you just how much show is involved in investigations like this, how political they are, and how weak these commissions' investigative drive can be.
 
2018-01-22 02:20:13 PM  

You Are All Sheep: actually they didn't follow the rules did they?  wasn't there a no go based on the temperature and it was overridden?


I should have been more specific in my point:

Ambitwistor: the engineers weren't able to convince the managers that there was a serious risk from the data they had


The rules of -civility- and "polite institutional behavior" were followed by the engineers.  There was at least one guy at Morton Thiokol (iirc) who could have stood up and shouted something like:  "YOU FARKING LAUNCH THAT THING, AND YOU'LL KILL EVERY LAST FARKING ONE OF THEM!" and screamed it until he was heard.  But, no, presentations were made, arguments politely presented and overridden, and astronauts killed in an attempt to make a bit showy political theater for the demented former B-grade actor / then-puppet-president.

Sometimes, civility and rule-following are not just counterproductive but actually dangerous.  The trick is knowing when it's one of those times.

/ arguments about the validity of the shuttle program as a whole can be had at another time
 
2018-01-22 02:29:39 PM  

SFSailor: You Are All Sheep: actually they didn't follow the rules did they?  wasn't there a no go based on the temperature and it was overridden?

I should have been more specific in my point:

Ambitwistor: the engineers weren't able to convince the managers that there was a serious risk from the data they had

The rules of -civility- and "polite institutional behavior" were followed by the engineers.  There was at least one guy at Morton Thiokol (iirc) who could have stood up and shouted something like:  "YOU FARKING LAUNCH THAT THING, AND YOU'LL KILL EVERY LAST FARKING ONE OF THEM!" and screamed it until he was heard.  But, no, presentations were made, arguments politely presented and overridden, and astronauts killed in an attempt to make a bit showy political theater for the demented former B-grade actor / then-puppet-president.

Sometimes, civility and rule-following are not just counterproductive but actually dangerous.  The trick is knowing when it's one of those times.

/ arguments about the validity of the shuttle program as a whole can be had at another time


Bob Ebeling
 
2018-01-22 02:30:51 PM  

rickythepenguin: StrikitRich: It definitely was cold that morning and they shouldn't have launched but it had been scrubbed twice and as this was a high visiblity PR mission their was political pressure to liftoff.


read where they pushed the mission despite multiple no-go's from NASA, because Reagan was going to give his SOTU that day.  they wanted to be able to say in the SOTU how they hit some nice round number of space shuttle launches, "the 30th launch, isn't this just the cat's ass?" or whatever.

knew a guy in the navy that claimed he was on the recovery crew.  claimed to have recovered body parts.  'it was farking disgusting, man....just farking.........body parts just everywhere, man......it was just...........gaaaah.  i don't evn like thinking about it....."  not sure if i believed him.


The astronauts survived the explosion, it was the impact that killed them.  Knew some people who used to dive the wreck site as they didn't bring all of it back up.  They weren't supposed to be there, but they'd bring back heat tiles as souvenirs.
 
2018-01-22 02:33:06 PM  

SFSailor: The rules of -civility- and "polite institutional behavior" were followed by the engineers.  There was at least one guy at Morton Thiokol (iirc) who could have stood up and shouted something like:  "YOU FARKING LAUNCH THAT THING, AND YOU'LL KILL EVERY LAST FARKING ONE OF THEM!" and screamed it until he was heard.  But, no, presentations were made, arguments politely presented and overridden, and astronauts killed in an attempt to make a bit showy political theater for the demented former B-grade actor / then-puppet-president.


I once attended a talk given by Boisjoly (Morton Thiokol engineer).  He was pretty bitter about his management (and being blackballed from the industry, I guess).

But, like I said above, it wasn't really about political theater.  Management genuinely didn't appreciate the technical argument being made.
 
2018-01-22 02:39:12 PM  

StrikitRich: Knew some people who used to dive the wreck site as they didn't bring all of it back up. They weren't supposed to be there, but they'd bring back heat tiles as souvenirs.


Wow - that shallow of water?  you'd think NASA / the gummint would have recovered all the debris if for no other reason, than just so that people wouldn't do what you said.  crazy.

and yeah, i've read where it's widely believed  / proven that at least some of the crew, if not the entire crew, survived teh explosion but the impact is what got them.  "they were able to show emergency beacons were activated" and so on.  whatever the specific clues or whatever were, it was determined they were alive during the X second freefall back to the surface.
 
2018-01-22 02:47:24 PM  

rickythepenguin: StrikitRich: Knew some people who used to dive the wreck site as they didn't bring all of it back up. They weren't supposed to be there, but they'd bring back heat tiles as souvenirs.

Wow - that shallow of water?  you'd think NASA / the gummint would have recovered all the debris if for no other reason, than just so that people wouldn't do what you said.  crazy.

and yeah, i've read where it's widely believed  / proven that at least some of the crew, if not the entire crew, survived teh explosion but the impact is what got them.  "they were able to show emergency beacons were activated" and so on.  whatever the specific clues or whatever were, it was determined they were alive during the X second freefall back to the surface.


Point of order: Challenger did not explode. The orbiter and external tank were ripped apart by aerodynamic forces as they were pushed out of the flight path by the failure of the SRB aft structural joint.
 
2018-01-22 02:58:03 PM  
[snippets]

By mid-1985 Thiokol engineers worried that others did not share their concerns about low temperatures' effects on the boosters. Bob Ebeling in October 1985 wrote a memo-titled "Help!" so others would read it-of concerns regarding low temperatures and O-rings. After the weather forecast, NASA personnel remembered Thiokol's warnings and contacted the company. When a Thiokol manager asked Ebeling about the possibility of a launch at 18 degrees, he answered "[W]e're only qualified to 40 degrees ...'what business does anyone even have thinking about 18 degrees, we're in no-man's land.'"

...

The night before the launch, Ebeling and four other engineers at NASA contractor Morton Thiokol had tried to stop the launch. Their managers and NASA overruled them.
That night, he told his wife, Darlene, "It's going to blow up."

...

[Roger] Boisjoly was the other Thiokol engineer who ... came to believe that he and Ebeling and their colleagues did all they could.
"We were talking to the right people," Boisjoly told me. "We were talking to the people who had the power to stop that launch."

...

"There was more than enough [NASA officials and Thiokol managers] there to say, 'Hey, let's give it another day or two,' " Ebeling recalls. "But no one did."
 
2018-01-22 02:59:35 PM  

the_innkeeper: rickythepenguin: StrikitRich: Knew some people who used to dive the wreck site as they didn't bring all of it back up. They weren't supposed to be there, but they'd bring back heat tiles as souvenirs.

Wow - that shallow of water?  you'd think NASA / the gummint would have recovered all the debris if for no other reason, than just so that people wouldn't do what you said.  crazy.

and yeah, i've read where it's widely believed  / proven that at least some of the crew, if not the entire crew, survived teh explosion but the impact is what got them.  "they were able to show emergency beacons were activated" and so on.  whatever the specific clues or whatever were, it was determined they were alive during the X second freefall back to the surface.

Point of order: Challenger did not explode. The orbiter and external tank were ripped apart by aerodynamic forces as they were pushed out of the flight path by the failure of the SRB aft structural joint.


If you want to argue the semantics of it I can argue that the shuttle, its tank and boosters are considered one vehicle during launch and are only considered separate entities after separation.

Lets not go there. Instead lets remember to listen to the farking engineers next time they say there is a danger due to extraordinary conditions.
 
2018-01-22 03:12:44 PM  
I very much encourage those with an interest in Challenger (and those with an interest in how to keep their organizational decision-making process from becoming dysfunctional) to watch this 4-part presentation by Mike Mullane. The guy has insights. Normalization of deviance

As someone who sets out in wooden ships with schoolkids, I approach safety questions from a seagoing perspective. And the exact same type of decision-making that cost us Challenger and Columbia is what sank the Bounty and El Faro.
 
2018-01-22 03:15:51 PM  

rummonkey: the_innkeeper: rickythepenguin: StrikitRich: Knew some people who used to dive the wreck site as they didn't bring all of it back up. They weren't supposed to be there, but they'd bring back heat tiles as souvenirs.

Wow - that shallow of water?  you'd think NASA / the gummint would have recovered all the debris if for no other reason, than just so that people wouldn't do what you said.  crazy.

and yeah, i've read where it's widely believed  / proven that at least some of the crew, if not the entire crew, survived teh explosion but the impact is what got them.  "they were able to show emergency beacons were activated" and so on.  whatever the specific clues or whatever were, it was determined they were alive during the X second freefall back to the surface.

Point of order: Challenger did not explode. The orbiter and external tank were ripped apart by aerodynamic forces as they were pushed out of the flight path by the failure of the SRB aft structural joint.

If you want to argue the semantics of it I can argue that the shuttle, its tank and boosters are considered one vehicle during launch and are only considered separate entities after separation.


I think the point was that as a data point regarding crew survivability, there was no actual explosion.
 
2018-01-22 03:19:11 PM  

ArcadianRefugee: [snippets]

By mid-1985 Thiokol engineers worried that others did not share their concerns about low temperatures' effects on the boosters. Bob Ebeling in October 1985 wrote a memo-titled "Help!" so others would read it-of concerns regarding low temperatures and O-rings. After the weather forecast, NASA personnel remembered Thiokol's warnings and contacted the company. When a Thiokol manager asked Ebeling about the possibility of a launch at 18 degrees, he answered "[W]e're only qualified to 40 degrees ...'what business does anyone even have thinking about 18 degrees, we're in no-man's land.'"

...

The night before the launch, Ebeling and four other engineers at NASA contractor Morton Thiokol had tried to stop the launch. Their managers and NASA overruled them.
That night, he told his wife, Darlene, "It's going to blow up."

...

[Roger] Boisjoly was the other Thiokol engineer who ... came to believe that he and Ebeling and their colleagues did all they could.
"We were talking to the right people," Boisjoly told me. "We were talking to the people who had the power to stop that launch."

...

"There was more than enough [NASA officials and Thiokol managers] there to say, 'Hey, let's give it another day or two,' " Ebeling recalls. "But no one did."


Thing is, there were serious problems with the O-rings (technically, the entire joint design) even before the low temperature added to the concerns.
 
2018-01-22 03:45:21 PM  
img.fark.netView Full Size


Show me your O-Ring face.
 
2018-01-22 04:04:21 PM  
those science lessons must have a lot to do with atmospheric dust.
 
2018-01-22 04:17:01 PM  

ng2810: If you are in or plan on visiting Burbank, I'd suggest visiting the Shrine to Aviation. It's a gorgeous memorial that honors pioneers in aviation as well as a memorial for those who perished in space exploration. The replica space shuttle has the names of the astronauts on both the Challenger and Columbia disasters.

[farm4.staticflickr.com image 500x333]


I live just a few blocks away from that shrine.  It's definitely worth a visit.

Also, in downtown L.A. (specifically, in Little Tokyo) is the Ellison Onizuka Plaza, which contains a Challenger Memorial featuring a large-scale model of the Shuttle stack:

c1.staticflickr.comView Full Size
 
2018-01-22 04:43:11 PM  

rummonkey: the_innkeeper: rickythepenguin: StrikitRich: Knew some people who used to dive the wreck site as they didn't bring all of it back up. They weren't supposed to be there, but they'd bring back heat tiles as souvenirs.

Wow - that shallow of water?  you'd think NASA / the gummint would have recovered all the debris if for no other reason, than just so that people wouldn't do what you said.  crazy.

and yeah, i've read where it's widely believed  / proven that at least some of the crew, if not the entire crew, survived teh explosion but the impact is what got them.  "they were able to show emergency beacons were activated" and so on.  whatever the specific clues or whatever were, it was determined they were alive during the X second freefall back to the surface.

Point of order: Challenger did not explode. The orbiter and external tank were ripped apart by aerodynamic forces as they were pushed out of the flight path by the failure of the SRB aft structural joint.

If you want to argue the semantics of it I can argue that the shuttle, its tank and boosters are considered one vehicle during launch and are only considered separate entities after separation.

Lets not go there. Instead lets remember to listen to the farking engineers next time they say there is a danger due to extraordinary conditions.


Spaceflight is heavily reliant on semantics. The orbiter did not explode. The Rogers Commission did go there and that is how they discovered exactly what happened.
 
2018-01-22 05:21:05 PM  
Love him or hate him, Reagan's speech after the explosion was poignant and moving. Sure, his writers were incredible but his presentation (yeah, he was an actor) really delivered. There's no way D2S could dream of coming close.

Challenger: President Reagan's Challenger Disaster Speech - 1/28/86
Youtube Qa7icmqgsow
 
2018-01-22 05:25:02 PM  

farking_texan: Spaceflight is heavily reliant on semantics.


Because typing on Fark is a vital part of the space program and inexact language here will cost lives.
 
2018-01-22 05:32:50 PM  

Ambitwistor: No, the launch decision wasn't made out of political pressure, and no, they didn't break any rules about cold temperatures.  The problem was that there weren't any hard rules about temperature, and the engineers weren't able to convince the managers that there was a serious risk from the data they had.  The managers understood there was some risk but believed the data were ambiguous and didn't justify scrubbing the launch.


Their understanding of risk wasn't just ambiguous; it was so ass-backward as to be criminal. The Rogers Commission went over it in great detail, but Richard Feynman's description of it was so damning that it's literally used in Business school textbooks as an example of how not to make important decisions.

In a nutshell:
NASA had seen burn-through on the O-rings on most previous flights. In their post-flight reviews, they saw that the O-rings were never more than one-third burned through. Therefore, they concluded, the O-rings had a "safety factor of 3" and were safe for launch.

Why that's criminally terrible:
The use of the term "safety factor" here is completely reversed from its usual meaning. Let's say you design a bridge designed to hold 30,000 kg of weight without failing. With a real safety factor of 3, the bridge wouldn't show unusual wear or failures until it bore 90,000 kg, or 3x the design parameters. Using the NASA definition, the bridge started showing unusual wear and failures at 10,000 kg, but instead of fixing the obvious design problem, they instead concluded that since the cracks only ran through a third of the load-bearing structures, the bridge could therefore hold up to 30,000 kg without collapsing.

The O-rings had been designed to show ZERO burn-through or failure under normal operating conditions, and by no means operated to spec. However, instead of halting the program and throwing the issue back to engineering to come up with a more robust design, NASA came up with a faulty conclusion so that they could continue launching.

The pressure may not have been "LAUNCH OR ELSE!" coming from the top, but the internal culture at the time was so hell-bent on launching that they would trick themselves into believing something was operating safely when, in fact, it was wildly underperforming its expectations.
 
2018-01-22 05:34:36 PM  

Slypork: There's no way D2S could dream of coming close.



I am very, very sad that the Challenger blew up.  This I can tell you:  no one is more sad than me.  Everywehere I go, everyone tells me how I am the biggest saddest person there is.  No has ever saddened more than me, that I can tell you.  And did you see that explosion?  It was huge.  Absolutely massive.  And under my presidency, it is quite remarkable that the death toll was what it was.  Only seven people died.  How great was that?  I mean, can you imagine how bad it would have been if Crooked Hillary, whom everybody thought I couldn't beat but did,she ran a terrible campaign, probably the worst campaign in the history of the world, was in charge?
 
2018-01-22 06:43:55 PM  

jaytkay: farking_texan: Spaceflight is heavily reliant on semantics.

Because typing on Fark is a vital part of the space program and inexact language here will cost lives.


I'm glad to see that you understand.
 
2018-01-22 09:04:23 PM  

rickythepenguin: Slypork: There's no way D2S could dream of coming close.


I am very, very sad that the Challenger blew up.  This I can tell you:  no one is more sad than me.  Everywehere I go, everyone tells me how I am the biggest saddest person there is.  No has ever saddened more than me, that I can tell you.  And did you see that explosion?  It was huge.  Absolutely massive.  And under my presidency, it is quite remarkable that the death toll was what it was.  Only seven people died.  How great was that?  I mean, can you imagine how bad it would have been if Crooked Hillary, whom everybody thought I couldn't beat but did,she ran a terrible campaign, probably the worst campaign in the history of the world, was in charge?


Stop. That was too real.
 
Displayed 50 of 53 comments


Oldest | « | 1 | 2 | » | Newest | Show all


View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

This thread is closed to new comments.

Continue Farking

On Twitter





Top Commented
Javascript is required to view headlines in widget.
  1. Links are submitted by members of the Fark community.

  2. When community members submit a link, they also write a custom headline for the story.

  3. Other Farkers comment on the links. This is the number of comments. Click here to read them.

  4. Click here to submit a link.

Report