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(Reuters)   Tax reform causes American Express to post its first quarterly loss in almost 30 years   ( reuters.com) divider line
    More: Awkward, credit card issuer, American Express, Stock market, issuer American Express, certain overseas earnings, deferred tax assets, U.S. tax reform, one-time repatriation tax  
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2742 clicks; posted to Business » on 20 Jan 2018 at 8:35 AM (26 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



50 Comments     (+0 »)
 
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2018-01-20 08:12:49 AM  
Do you know me?
 
2018-01-20 08:46:35 AM  
The headline in a few months:

"American Express posts its largest quarterly profit ever"
 
2018-01-20 08:56:26 AM  
Buybacks are a meaningful contribution to earnings per share growth at AmEx

Now that's the definition of product development and market innovation! American business is second to none.
 
2018-01-20 08:56:35 AM  

BunkyBrewman: The headline in a few months:

"American Express posts its largest quarterly profit ever"


On which green earth would the opposite statement become true given time?
 
2018-01-20 09:08:38 AM  

Jiro Dreams Of McRibs: Buybacks are a meaningful contribution to earnings per share growth at AmEx

Now that's the definition of product development and market innovation! American business is second to none.


Short their stock, buy companies that don't buy back shares.
 
2018-01-20 09:21:21 AM  

gar1013: Jiro Dreams Of McRibs: Buybacks are a meaningful contribution to earnings per share growth at AmEx

Now that's the definition of product development and market innovation! American business is second to none.

Short their stock, buy companies that don't buy back shares.


Why? seems like that would stabilize the shares
 
2018-01-20 09:22:56 AM  

chitownmike: gar1013: Jiro Dreams Of McRibs: Buybacks are a meaningful contribution to earnings per share growth at AmEx

Now that's the definition of product development and market innovation! American business is second to none.

Short their stock, buy companies that don't buy back shares.

Why? seems like that would stabilize the shares


My life experience has taught me that when a Republican gives advice, don't follow it.
 
2018-01-20 09:25:31 AM  
What did we just reach peak 'snob appeal'?
 
2018-01-20 10:05:25 AM  

chitownmike: gar1013: Jiro Dreams Of McRibs: Buybacks are a meaningful contribution to earnings per share growth at AmEx

Now that's the definition of product development and market innovation! American business is second to none.

Short their stock, buy companies that don't buy back shares.

Why? seems like that would stabilize the shares


I was being facetious.

Generally speaking, stock buybacks mean they don't know what to do with the money they have.

Shorting the stock is a fairly dangerous move, because you know the stock is going up due to future buybacks. At some point that could stop, but you might have to wait a decade.

In reality, the best course of action is to steer clear stocks that buy back shares to boost prices.

Most companies are horrible when it comes to timing them. If the stock is fairly high in value, and needs buybacks to push it higher, they aren't getting good value for their share repurchases. If the stock is really cheap, then it means they are totally out of ideas and are giving back money that can be difficult to raise should they need it in the future.
 
2018-01-20 10:06:10 AM  

casual disregard: chitownmike: gar1013: Jiro Dreams Of McRibs: Buybacks are a meaningful contribution to earnings per share growth at AmEx

Now that's the definition of product development and market innovation! American business is second to none.

Short their stock, buy companies that don't buy back shares.

Why? seems like that would stabilize the shares

My life experience has taught me that when a Republican gives advice, don't follow it.


You sound like a poor.

Read my followup to him.
 
2018-01-20 10:18:39 AM  

gar1013: chitownmike: gar1013: Jiro Dreams Of McRibs: Buybacks are a meaningful contribution to earnings per share growth at AmEx

Now that's the definition of product development and market innovation! American business is second to none.

Short their stock, buy companies that don't buy back shares.

Why? seems like that would stabilize the shares

I was being facetious.

Generally speaking, stock buybacks mean they don't know what to do with the money they have.


Huh?  If a company has extra money it will distribute those funds and dividends or reinvest them into the business.  The Board doesn't hold a meeting and say, "OHMYGOSH.  We have all this money.  What do we do with it?  I dunno.  Wait -- Let's buy back our stock!"

The purpose of the corporation is to increase shareholder value.  Buying back stock in order to boost the price is a perfectly viable strategy.
 
2018-01-20 10:32:08 AM  
I want to stamp this on the forehead of every farking CEO of this country so that when they walk their fat ass on to TV or stage to talk about what they are doing to grow their company, it shows they aren't doing anything but padding their own farking pockets.

"Buybacks are a meaningful contribution to earnings per share growth". That is ALL they are good for, not one more goddamn thing. It doesn't help the front line workers, doesn't help in R&D, NOTHING else but inflate the stock price the CEO is mostly compensated in.
 
2018-01-20 10:35:03 AM  

Gary-L: gar1013: chitownmike: gar1013: Jiro Dreams Of McRibs: Buybacks are a meaningful contribution to earnings per share growth at AmEx

Now that's the definition of product development and market innovation! American business is second to none.

Short their stock, buy companies that don't buy back shares.

Why? seems like that would stabilize the shares

I was being facetious.

Generally speaking, stock buybacks mean they don't know what to do with the money they have.

Huh?  If a company has extra money it will distribute those funds and dividends or reinvest them into the business.  The Board doesn't hold a meeting and say, "OHMYGOSH.  We have all this money.  What do we do with it?  I dunno.  Wait -- Let's buy back our stock!"

The purpose of the corporation is to increase shareholder value.  Buying back stock in order to boost the price is a perfectly viable strategy.


The purpose of the corporation is to provide a service to a customer. It's shareholder only mentality that is driving a huge wedge between the working class and the upper class(I hardly call C-suite executives workers).
 
2018-01-20 11:03:46 AM  

gar1013: casual disregard: chitownmike: gar1013: Jiro Dreams Of McRibs: Buybacks are a meaningful contribution to earnings per share growth at AmEx

Now that's the definition of product development and market innovation! American business is second to none.

Short their stock, buy companies that don't buy back shares.

Why? seems like that would stabilize the shares

My life experience has taught me that when a Republican gives advice, don't follow it.

You sound like a poor.

Read my followup to him.


Excuse me, I'm unemployed. Get it right, buster.

I'd bust a pecan right in your stinky mouth if I could. I'd do that. Want to challenge me? Because I would.

You sound like a person without a filter who blames the world's problems on everyone else and then does nothing at all in any attempt to resolve them. You're so phenomenally wrong-headed that I have to assume that you are the President or at least somebody who supports him. I'm so happy you can't golf right now. Are you mad? Are you mad at me? Are you mad?!

/you read this in (burp) Rick's voice
 
2018-01-20 11:11:59 AM  

gar1013: If the stock is really cheap, then it means they are totally out of ideas and are giving back money that can be difficult to raise should they need it in the future.


Can't the company put those shares back on the market without having to go through a formal new offering? On a smaller scale, I believe they can be transferred to employees as part of a compensation package or incentive. My understand was that buybacks do give companies some options to get the cash back, unlike dividends, acquisitions, or most any product investment.

There would be PR issues with disclosing that you're selling previously bought back shares, so I doubt there's been much of that in the current environment of tons of cheap money.
 
2018-01-20 11:21:04 AM  

Gary-L: gar1013: chitownmike: gar1013: Jiro Dreams Of McRibs: Buybacks are a meaningful contribution to earnings per share growth at AmEx

Now that's the definition of product development and market innovation! American business is second to none.

Short their stock, buy companies that don't buy back shares.

Why? seems like that would stabilize the shares

I was being facetious.

Generally speaking, stock buybacks mean they don't know what to do with the money they have.

Huh?  If a company has extra money it will distribute those funds and dividends or reinvest them into the business.  The Board doesn't hold a meeting and say, "OHMYGOSH.  We have all this money.  What do we do with it?  I dunno.  Wait -- Let's buy back our stock!"

The purpose of the corporation is to increase shareholder value.  Buying back stock in order to boost the price is a perfectly viable strategy.


Stock buybacks aren't a strategy. They are a calculation.

If you can't create shareholder wealth with the money you have, you're giving it back.

Think about that.

It means you literally have no ideas to grow the business, and you can't figure out how to reinvest in your business to drive revenue to improve your cost structure.

If you want to invest in a company that doesn't grow, buy a dividend stock.  Want capital appreciation? Invest in companies that don't run out of ideas and give up by buying back stock.
 
2018-01-20 11:22:01 AM  

casual disregard: gar1013: casual disregard: chitownmike: gar1013: Jiro Dreams Of McRibs: Buybacks are a meaningful contribution to earnings per share growth at AmEx

Now that's the definition of product development and market innovation! American business is second to none.

Short their stock, buy companies that don't buy back shares.

Why? seems like that would stabilize the shares

My life experience has taught me that when a Republican gives advice, don't follow it.

You sound like a poor.

Read my followup to him.

Excuse me, I'm unemployed. Get it right, buster.

I'd bust a pecan right in your stinky mouth if I could. I'd do that. Want to challenge me? Because I would.

You sound like a person without a filter who blames the world's problems on everyone else and then does nothing at all in any attempt to resolve them. You're so phenomenally wrong-headed that I have to assume that you are the President or at least somebody who supports him. I'm so happy you can't golf right now. Are you mad? Are you mad at me? Are you mad?!

/you read this in (burp) Rick's voice


Huh?
 
2018-01-20 11:25:39 AM  

jayphat: Gary-L: gar1013: chitownmike: gar1013: Jiro Dreams Of McRibs: Buybacks are a meaningful contribution to earnings per share growth at AmEx

Now that's the definition of product development and market innovation! American business is second to none.

Short their stock, buy companies that don't buy back shares.

Why? seems like that would stabilize the shares

I was being facetious.

Generally speaking, stock buybacks mean they don't know what to do with the money they have.

Huh?  If a company has extra money it will distribute those funds and dividends or reinvest them into the business.  The Board doesn't hold a meeting and say, "OHMYGOSH.  We have all this money.  What do we do with it?  I dunno.  Wait -- Let's buy back our stock!"

The purpose of the corporation is to increase shareholder value.  Buying back stock in order to boost the price is a perfectly viable strategy.

The purpose of the corporation is to provide a service to a customer. It's shareholder only mentality that is driving a huge wedge between the working class and the upper class(I hardly call C-suite executives workers).


Where did you come up with that.  Corporations are not formed for the purpose of providing a service.  Corporations are formed so that shareholder value can be increased.  You obviously do not have an understanding of the types of corporations, how they are formed, and how they operate.

Example: Jeff Bezos is quoted as saying he started Amazon because he "just wanted to sell some books".  Look at the history of Amazon and note how Amazon never posted a profit until well after 2010.  Why?  Because the C-Suite leveraged all that server space and bandwidth every year to grow the business.  All leftover money was plowed back into the business, which resulted in tremendous increase in the value of Amazon stock every single year.  People who held Amazon stock are called "Shareholders".  Guess what?  Their value increased every year.

You're either blindly ignorant or a terrific troll.
 
2018-01-20 11:30:48 AM  

OccamsWhiskers: gar1013: If the stock is really cheap, then it means they are totally out of ideas and are giving back money that can be difficult to raise should they need it in the future.

Can't the company put those shares back on the market without having to go through a formal new offering? On a smaller scale, I believe they can be transferred to employees as part of a compensation package or incentive. My understand was that buybacks do give companies some options to get the cash back, unlike dividends, acquisitions, or most any product investment.

There would be PR issues with disclosing that you're selling previously bought back shares, so I doubt there's been much of that in the current environment of tons of cheap money.


I'll say this much:  every time I've worked at a place where they bought back shares, or even considered it, one of two things was at play:

1) they were trying to hit a magical bogey for the stock price and it wasn't going to get there otherwise.

2) nobody wanted to do what was necessary to increase market share, and nobody had any ideas to utilize capital...actually, let's rephrase:  nobody was willing to entertain new ideas.

Think about it another way:  the best time to buyback stock is when the share price is about to take off like a rocket. The worst time is when the stock has already had significant price appreciation, or is under downward pressure. Guess when people usually decide to do buybacks?

I'm not coming at this like one of Fark's resident Marxists. I'm approaching this as someone who knows that you should head for the exits before the encore is finished to make sure you beat the traffic.
 
2018-01-20 12:24:44 PM  

Gary-L: The purpose of the corporation is to increase shareholder value.  Buying back stock in order to boost the price is a perfectly viable strategy.


Although it's interesting that until the early 1980s, it was considered stock manipulation and illegal. I'm surprised no on has mentioned that in this time of historically low interest rates, companies have been using debt to buy back shares.
 
2018-01-20 12:33:23 PM  

beer4breakfast: Gary-L: The purpose of the corporation is to increase shareholder value.  Buying back stock in order to boost the price is a perfectly viable strategy.

Although it's interesting that until the early 1980s, it was considered stock manipulation and illegal. I'm surprised no on has mentioned that in this time of historically low interest rates, companies have been using debt to buy back shares.


It's just amazing that instead of working on  increasing the E, it's now legal and responsible to reduce the S in EPS.

Thanks for pointing out the former illegality of debt being used to raise stock prices. AAPL has been using cash to buy up its shares and apparently will continue to do so until there's just the one share.
 
2018-01-20 01:12:32 PM  

Jiro Dreams Of McRibs: Thanks for pointing out the former illegality of debt being used to raise stock prices.


Actually, until 1982, the US didn't allow companies to buy back its own shares on the open market(how it's usually done today) at all.
 
2018-01-20 02:39:21 PM  

Gary-L: jayphat: Gary-L: gar1013: chitownmike: gar1013: Jiro Dreams Of McRibs: Buybacks are a meaningful contribution to earnings per share growth at AmEx

Now that's the definition of product development and market innovation! American business is second to none.

Short their stock, buy companies that don't buy back shares.

Why? seems like that would stabilize the shares

I was being facetious.

Generally speaking, stock buybacks mean they don't know what to do with the money they have.

Huh?  If a company has extra money it will distribute those funds and dividends or reinvest them into the business.  The Board doesn't hold a meeting and say, "OHMYGOSH.  We have all this money.  What do we do with it?  I dunno.  Wait -- Let's buy back our stock!"

The purpose of the corporation is to increase shareholder value.  Buying back stock in order to boost the price is a perfectly viable strategy.

The purpose of the corporation is to provide a service to a customer. It's shareholder only mentality that is driving a huge wedge between the working class and the upper class(I hardly call C-suite executives workers).

Where did you come up with that.  Corporations are not formed for the purpose of providing a service.  Corporations are formed so that shareholder value can be increased.  You obviously do not have an understanding of the types of corporations, how they are formed, and how they operate.

Example: Jeff Bezos is quoted as saying he started Amazon because he "just wanted to sell some books".  Look at the history of Amazon and note how Amazon never posted a profit until well after 2010.  Why?  Because the C-Suite leveraged all that server space and bandwidth every year to grow the business.  All leftover money was plowed back into the business, which resulted in tremendous increase in the value of Amazon stock every single year.  People who held Amazon stock are called "Shareholders".  Guess what?  Their value increased every year.

You're either blindly ignorant or a terrific troll.


If you have no customers, you have no shareholders to give a god damn thing do. Corporations are formed everyday so that they can magically attract all these benevolent shareholders who do what for the company? Exchange goods for services? No,that's called a customer. A corporation exists to serve the need of a customer. The shareholder is the leech that gets their cut when business is good. Or in the case of share buybacks, if business is good or bad.
 
2018-01-20 03:50:02 PM  

jayphat: Gary-L: jayphat: Gary-L: gar1013: chitownmike: gar1013: Jiro Dreams Of McRibs: Buybacks are a meaningful contribution to earnings per share growth at AmEx

Now that's the definition of product development and market innovation! American business is second to none.

Short their stock, buy companies that don't buy back shares.

Why? seems like that would stabilize the shares

I was being facetious.

Generally speaking, stock buybacks mean they don't know what to do with the money they have.

Huh?  If a company has extra money it will distribute those funds and dividends or reinvest them into the business.  The Board doesn't hold a meeting and say, "OHMYGOSH.  We have all this money.  What do we do with it?  I dunno.  Wait -- Let's buy back our stock!"

The purpose of the corporation is to increase shareholder value.  Buying back stock in order to boost the price is a perfectly viable strategy.

The purpose of the corporation is to provide a service to a customer. It's shareholder only mentality that is driving a huge wedge between the working class and the upper class(I hardly call C-suite executives workers).

Where did you come up with that.  Corporations are not formed for the purpose of providing a service.  Corporations are formed so that shareholder value can be increased.  You obviously do not have an understanding of the types of corporations, how they are formed, and how they operate.

Example: Jeff Bezos is quoted as saying he started Amazon because he "just wanted to sell some books".  Look at the history of Amazon and note how Amazon never posted a profit until well after 2010.  Why?  Because the C-Suite leveraged all that server space and bandwidth every year to grow the business.  All leftover money was plowed back into the business, which resulted in tremendous increase in the value of Amazon stock every single year.  People who held Amazon stock are called "Shareholders".  Guess what?  Their value increased every year.

You're either blindly ignorant or a terrific troll.

If you have no customers, you have no shareholders to give a god damn thing do. Corporations are formed everyday so that they can magically attract all these benevolent shareholders who do what for the company? Exchange goods for services? No,that's called a customer. A corporation exists to serve the need of a customer. The shareholder is the leech that gets their cut when business is good. Or in the case of share buybacks, if business is good or bad.


LOL. You are wrong wrong wrong. Sigh. Marxist crap.
 
2018-01-20 03:53:04 PM  

Jiro Dreams Of McRibs: Buybacks are a meaningful contribution to earnings per share growth at AmEx

Now that's the definition of product development and market innovation! American business is second to none.


In other words, don't buy and hold this stock unless you expect a buyout of Amex...
 
2018-01-20 03:57:24 PM  

Shryke: jayphat: Gary-L: jayphat: Gary-L: gar1013: chitownmike: gar1013: Jiro Dreams Of McRibs: Buybacks are a meaningful contribution to earnings per share growth at AmEx

Now that's the definition of product development and market innovation! American business is second to none.

Short their stock, buy companies that don't buy back shares.

Why? seems like that would stabilize the shares

I was being facetious.

Generally speaking, stock buybacks mean they don't know what to do with the money they have.

Huh?  If a company has extra money it will distribute those funds and dividends or reinvest them into the business.  The Board doesn't hold a meeting and say, "OHMYGOSH.  We have all this money.  What do we do with it?  I dunno.  Wait -- Let's buy back our stock!"

The purpose of the corporation is to increase shareholder value.  Buying back stock in order to boost the price is a perfectly viable strategy.

The purpose of the corporation is to provide a service to a customer. It's shareholder only mentality that is driving a huge wedge between the working class and the upper class(I hardly call C-suite executives workers).

Where did you come up with that.  Corporations are not formed for the purpose of providing a service.  Corporations are formed so that shareholder value can be increased.  You obviously do not have an understanding of the types of corporations, how they are formed, and how they operate.

Example: Jeff Bezos is quoted as saying he started Amazon because he "just wanted to sell some books".  Look at the history of Amazon and note how Amazon never posted a profit until well after 2010.  Why?  Because the C-Suite leveraged all that server space and bandwidth every year to grow the business.  All leftover money was plowed back into the business, which resulted in tremendous increase in the value of Amazon stock every single year.  People who held Amazon stock are called "Shareholders".  Guess what?  Their value increased every year.

You're either blindly ignorant or a terrific troll.

If you have no customers, you have no shareholders to give a god damn thing do. Corporations are formed everyday so that they can magically attract all these benevolent shareholders who do what for the company? Exchange goods for services? No,that's called a customer. A corporation exists to serve the need of a customer. The shareholder is the leech that gets their cut when business is good. Or in the case of share buybacks, if business is good or bad.

LOL. You are wrong wrong wrong. Sigh. Marxist crap.


Its Marxist to believe a business provides a product to customers? In what reality is that occuring?

Don't answer. We're in the reality where Trump is President.
 
2018-01-20 04:37:40 PM  

jayphat: If you have no customers, you have no shareholders to give a god damn thing do. Corporations are formed everyday so that they can magically attract all these benevolent shareholders who do what for the company? Exchange goods for services? No,that's called a customer. A corporation exists to serve the need of a customer. The shareholder is the leech that gets their cut when business is good. Or in the case of share buybacks, if business is good or bad.


A corporation exists to make profit for its shareholders.  Customers just happen to be the means by which they do it.
 
2018-01-20 04:53:22 PM  

kevinatilusa: jayphat: If you have no customers, you have no shareholders to give a god damn thing do. Corporations are formed everyday so that they can magically attract all these benevolent shareholders who do what for the company? Exchange goods for services? No,that's called a customer. A corporation exists to serve the need of a customer. The shareholder is the leech that gets their cut when business is good. Or in the case of share buybacks, if business is good or bad.

A corporation exists to make profit for its shareholders.  Customers just happen to be the means by which they do it.


Without customers, corporations cant provide to shareholders (outside of vampiric/vulture capitalism for a couple of quarters...)
 
2018-01-20 07:56:34 PM  

jayphat: Gary-L: jayphat: Gary-L: gar1013: chitownmike: gar1013: Jiro Dreams Of McRibs: Buybacks are a meaningful contribution to earnings per share growth at AmEx

Now that's the definition of product development and market innovation! American business is second to none.

Short their stock, buy companies that don't buy back shares.

Why? seems like that would stabilize the shares

I was being facetious.

Generally speaking, stock buybacks mean they don't know what to do with the money they have.

Huh?  If a company has extra money it will distribute those funds and dividends or reinvest them into the business.  The Board doesn't hold a meeting and say, "OHMYGOSH.  We have all this money.  What do we do with it?  I dunno.  Wait -- Let's buy back our stock!"

The purpose of the corporation is to increase shareholder value.  Buying back stock in order to boost the price is a perfectly viable strategy.

The purpose of the corporation is to provide a service to a customer. It's shareholder only mentality that is driving a huge wedge between the working class and the upper class(I hardly call C-suite executives workers).

Where did you come up with that.  Corporations are not formed for the purpose of providing a service.  Corporations are formed so that shareholder value can be increased.  You obviously do not have an understanding of the types of corporations, how they are formed, and how they operate.

Example: Jeff Bezos is quoted as saying he started Amazon because he "just wanted to sell some books".  Look at the history of Amazon and note how Amazon never posted a profit until well after 2010.  Why?  Because the C-Suite leveraged all that server space and bandwidth every year to grow the business.  All leftover money was plowed back into the business, which resulted in tremendous increase in the value of Amazon stock every single year.  People who held Amazon stock are called "Shareholders".  Guess what?  Their value increased every year.

You're either blindly ignorant o ...


Shareholders are owners of the company. You engage in such ownership to grow value. Customers are a vehicle for that growth, they are not by themselves the end game.
 
2018-01-20 09:20:05 PM  

BlazeTrailer: jayphat: Gary-L: jayphat: Gary-L: gar1013: chitownmike: gar1013: Jiro Dreams Of McRibs: Buybacks are a meaningful contribution to earnings per share growth at AmEx

Now that's the definition of product development and market innovation! American business is second to none.

Short their stock, buy companies that don't buy back shares.

Why? seems like that would stabilize the shares

I was being facetious.

Generally speaking, stock buybacks mean they don't know what to do with the money they have.

Huh?  If a company has extra money it will distribute those funds and dividends or reinvest them into the business.  The Board doesn't hold a meeting and say, "OHMYGOSH.  We have all this money.  What do we do with it?  I dunno.  Wait -- Let's buy back our stock!"

The purpose of the corporation is to increase shareholder value.  Buying back stock in order to boost the price is a perfectly viable strategy.

The purpose of the corporation is to provide a service to a customer. It's shareholder only mentality that is driving a huge wedge between the working class and the upper class(I hardly call C-suite executives workers).

Where did you come up with that.  Corporations are not formed for the purpose of providing a service.  Corporations are formed so that shareholder value can be increased.  You obviously do not have an understanding of the types of corporations, how they are formed, and how they operate.

Example: Jeff Bezos is quoted as saying he started Amazon because he "just wanted to sell some books".  Look at the history of Amazon and note how Amazon never posted a profit until well after 2010.  Why?  Because the C-Suite leveraged all that server space and bandwidth every year to grow the business.  All leftover money was plowed back into the business, which resulted in tremendous increase in the value of Amazon stock every single year.  People who held Amazon stock are called "Shareholders".  Guess what?  Their value increased every year.

You're either blindly ignorant o ...

Shareholders are owners of the company. You engage in such ownership to grow value. Customers are a vehicle for that growth, they are not by themselves the end game.


Customers are your ONLY vehicle to growth. Everything else is artificial. If you don't grow market share or customers, none of those shareholders mean a damned thing.

And please, tell me more about valuing shareholders over customers. Sears is a great example about how that works in the end.
 
2018-01-20 10:27:59 PM  

gar1013: Gary-L: gar1013: chitownmike: gar1013: Jiro Dreams Of McRibs: Buybacks are a meaningful contribution to earnings per share growth at AmEx

Now that's the definition of product development and market innovation! American business is second to none.

Short their stock, buy companies that don't buy back shares.

Why? seems like that would stabilize the shares

I was being facetious.

Generally speaking, stock buybacks mean they don't know what to do with the money they have.

Huh?  If a company has extra money it will distribute those funds and dividends or reinvest them into the business.  The Board doesn't hold a meeting and say, "OHMYGOSH.  We have all this money.  What do we do with it?  I dunno.  Wait -- Let's buy back our stock!"

The purpose of the corporation is to increase shareholder value.  Buying back stock in order to boost the price is a perfectly viable strategy.

Stock buybacks aren't a strategy. They are a calculation.

If you can't create shareholder wealth with the money you have, you're giving it back.

Think about that.

It means you literally have no ideas to grow the business, and you can't figure out how to reinvest in your business to drive revenue to improve your cost structure.

If you want to invest in a company that doesn't grow, buy a dividend stock.  Want capital appreciation? Invest in companies that don't run out of ideas and give up by buying back stock.


I tend to agree with you in this particular case because A)  interest rates are low, so corporations that wanted to expand already have access to "cheap" money and B) with the new tax law changes, companies will have even more money that they don't know what to do with.   Therefore, one way to "do something" with the money other than "giving it away" by increasing worker wages or boosting dividends is to buy back stock.  At least with the stock buyback, the company is getting something of value for the transaction - shares of the company.   The company can later sell the stock for a higher price or retire it.   Either way, in the meantime, the value per share outstanding goes up and the larger shareholders gain influence and power through holding more equity.

However, buying back stock in general isn't necessarily a bad thing.  If a company thinks their shares are undervalued, it's a good thing to buy them back until the value is what they are more comfortable with.  Also, it's kind of crazy how low priced some stocks are for mere liquidity purposes -- especially considering each shareholder is entitled to get a yearly investor packet by mail.   Seriously...  how is it even worth it for some companies with stocks below $100 to print and mail those fat things out for people with only 1 share?  Seems ludicrous to me.
 
2018-01-20 11:19:01 PM  
jayphat: And please, tell me more about valuing shareholders over customers. Sears is a great example about how that works in the end.

Yeah I think everybody got screwed over concerning Sears.
 
2018-01-20 11:22:13 PM  

Shazam999: jayphat: And please, tell me more about valuing shareholders over customers. Sears is a great example about how that works in the end.

Yeah I think everybody got screwed over concerning Sears.


Not Eddie Lambert's, the majority shareholder.
 
2018-01-20 11:29:48 PM  

jayphat: Shazam999: jayphat: And please, tell me more about valuing shareholders over customers. Sears is a great example about how that works in the end.

Yeah I think everybody got screwed over concerning Sears.

Not Eddie Lambert's, the majority shareholder.


No, he's done terribly.  The stock is almost worthless now.  He's given Sears millions of dollars in loans.

He's a moron.
 
2018-01-21 09:02:25 AM  

jayphat: And please, tell me more about valuing shareholders over customers. Sears is a great example about how that works in the end.


This. Anyone know that Sears used to be in the customer-service business? Customers know when they're not appreciated.

Amazon is the modern day version of the Sears of the 19th century.

If Amazon's customer service ever starts to suck for me as much as Sears started to, there'll be another migration out. No sign of that happening yet.
 
2018-01-21 09:21:03 AM  
I'm sorry.  I cashed out all of my BlueRewards at once in January.
 
2018-01-21 09:41:45 AM  
I agree that share buybacks are usually a terrible sign for a business, but it should be noted that one of the stupid things our tax code does is make buying back shares more attractive than paying a dividend.
 
2018-01-21 09:46:46 AM  
Tax collections in 2018 are going to be huge. Or maybe it's pronounced "YUGE"
 
2018-01-21 09:50:12 AM  
oh stop with the "companies that pay share buybacks are out of ideas."
Apple doesn't need hundreds of billions for R&D to make the next iProduct or next version of the iPhone. Coca Cola doesn't need all that much money to come up with some new nasty ass flavor of soda or buy some other beverage company.

Now some companies will undercut real growth for buybacks but that is bad management, not a problem with share repurchases.
 
2018-01-21 09:58:55 AM  

flucto: Tax collections in 2018 are going to be huge. Or maybe it's pronounced "YUGE"


Well TY18 collections might be pretty yuge due to the repatriation catch-up tax.

But TY19 and forward are going to be pretty anemic.
 
2018-01-21 10:50:36 AM  

BMFPitt: flucto: Tax collections in 2018 are going to be huge. Or maybe it's pronounced "YUGE"

Well TY18 collections might be pretty yuge due to the repatriation catch-up tax


Many corporations will pay on the installment plan, which is only 8% of your tax in TY2018.  Amex taking the lump sum and a huge loss seems like a bad plan, or a lie.
 
2018-01-21 10:59:05 AM  

AlanMooresBeard: oh stop with the "companies that pay share buybacks are out of ideas."
Apple doesn't need hundreds of billions for R&D to make the next iProduct or next version of the iPhone. Coca Cola doesn't need all that much money to come up with some new nasty ass flavor of soda or buy some other beverage company.

Now some companies will undercut real growth for buybacks but that is bad management, not a problem with share repurchases.


They could take that hundreds of billions and give it back to their employees.you know, the ones who helped earn all that money.

Nah,better just artificially inflate the stock price with it instead.
 
2018-01-21 02:07:19 PM  

jayphat: If you have no customers, you have no shareholders to give a god damn thing do. Corporations are formed everyday so that they can magically attract all these benevolent shareholders who do what for the company? Exchange goods for services? No,that's called a customer. A corporation exists to serve the need of a customer. The shareholder is the leech that gets their cut when business is good. Or in the case of share buybacks, if business is good or bad.


It's hard to tell a troll from somebody who's just ignorant or misinformed, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. Corporations are created by investors who seek a return on their investment, that is their raison d'être.Attracting and serving customers is how they accomplish that goal, but it isn't why they come into being. It's silly to call shareholders "leeches," implying some sort of parasitical relationship, when it's the shareholders themselves who undertake the risk and will it into existence, thereby earning the right to its bounty (should any come to pass).
 
2018-01-21 03:23:15 PM  

Shryke: jayphat: Gary-L: jayphat: Gary-L: gar1013: chitownmike: gar1013: Jiro Dreams Of McRibs: Buybacks are a meaningful contribution to earnings per share growth at AmEx

Now that's the definition of product development and market innovation! American business is second to none.

Short their stock, buy companies that don't buy back shares.

Why? seems like that would stabilize the shares

I was being facetious.

Generally speaking, stock buybacks mean they don't know what to do with the money they have.

Huh?  If a company has extra money it will distribute those funds and dividends or reinvest them into the business.  The Board doesn't hold a meeting and say, "OHMYGOSH.  We have all this money.  What do we do with it?  I dunno.  Wait -- Let's buy back our stock!"

The purpose of the corporation is to increase shareholder value.  Buying back stock in order to boost the price is a perfectly viable strategy.

The purpose of the corporation is to provide a service to a customer. It's shareholder only mentality that is driving a huge wedge between the working class and the upper class(I hardly call C-suite executives workers).

Where did you come up with that.  Corporations are not formed for the purpose of providing a service.  Corporations are formed so that shareholder value can be increased.  You obviously do not have an understanding of the types of corporations, how they are formed, and how they operate.

Example: Jeff Bezos is quoted as saying he started Amazon because he "just wanted to sell some books".  Look at the history of Amazon and note how Amazon never posted a profit until well after 2010.  Why?  Because the C-Suite leveraged all that server space and bandwidth every year to grow the business.  All leftover money was plowed back into the business, which resulted in tremendous increase in the value of Amazon stock every single year.  People who held Amazon stock are called "Shareholders".  Guess what?  Their value increased every year.

You're either blindly ignorant or a terrific troll.

If you have no customers, you have no shareholders to give a god damn thing do. Corporations are formed everyday so that they can magically attract all these benevolent shareholders who do what for the company? Exchange goods for services? No,that's called a customer. A corporation exists to serve the need of a customer. The shareholder is the leech that gets their cut when business is good. Or in the case of share buybacks, if business is good or bad.

LOL. You are wrong wrong wrong. Sigh. Marxist crap.


 Brainwashed much?
 
2018-01-21 03:40:51 PM  

BunkyBrewman: The headline in a few months:

"American Express posts its largest quarterly profit ever"


they can write off their "losses" and avoid all those meany taxes.

you get to pay the difference.
 
2018-01-21 03:41:58 PM  

Jiro Dreams Of McRibs: Buybacks are a meaningful contribution to earnings per share growth at AmEx

Now that's the definition of product development and market innovation! American business is second to none.


otherwise known as the street corner shell game.
 
2018-01-21 03:44:28 PM  

gar1013: Jiro Dreams Of McRibs: Buybacks are a meaningful contribution to earnings per share growth at AmEx

Now that's the definition of product development and market innovation! American business is second to none.

Short their stock, buy companies that don't buy back shares.


Unearned Income.

odd how u never hear the corporate owned news heads use that phrase any more.

they used to use it all the time.
 
2018-01-21 07:05:51 PM  
"The company took a $2.6 billion charge to cover a new one-time repatriation tax on undistributed income of certain non-U.S. units and to adjust the value of its deferred tax assets and liabilities."

So Amex paid a tax on their horde of cash. Why isn't the Fark Progressive Brigade applauding this as a corporation paying their fair share?
 
2018-01-21 07:48:06 PM  

jjorsett: jayphat: If you have no customers, you have no shareholders to give a god damn thing do. Corporations are formed everyday so that they can magically attract all these benevolent shareholders who do what for the company? Exchange goods for services? No,that's called a customer. A corporation exists to serve the need of a customer. The shareholder is the leech that gets their cut when business is good. Or in the case of share buybacks, if business is good or bad.

It's hard to tell a troll from somebody who's just ignorant or misinformed, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. Corporations are created by investors who seek a return on their investment, that is their raison d'être.Attracting and serving customers is how they accomplish that goal, but it isn't why they come into being. It's silly to call shareholders "leeches," implying some sort of parasitical relationship, when it's the shareholders themselves who undertake the risk and will it into existence, thereby earning the right to its bounty (should any come to pass).


In the purist form, yes. In the modern form, there is no risk, there is no willing it into existence. They literally are leeches off the backs of the workers of the company, driving the executives to make short term decisions that benefit a few instead of the overall company itself. The corporations role is more than what I just stated about serving the customer. It's true primary role? To maintain the health of the corporation. Buying back shares does shiat ALL to that end.
 
2018-01-21 08:30:18 PM  

Linux_Yes: gar1013: Jiro Dreams Of McRibs: Buybacks are a meaningful contribution to earnings per share growth at AmEx

Now that's the definition of product development and market innovation! American business is second to none.

Short their stock, buy companies that don't buy back shares.

Unearned Income.

odd how u never hear the corporate owned news heads use that phrase any more.

they used to use it all the time.


Now that's a phrase I haven't heard in years.
 
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