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(Yahoo)   The homicide rate for the entire city of Chicago dropped by an entire "Rich white guy in Vegas" last year   ( yahoo.com) divider line
    More: Followup, Crime, city, police, Chicago Police Department, gang violence, Chicago Police Superintendent, New York City, Gang  
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3454 clicks; posted to Main » on 02 Jan 2018 at 1:08 PM (27 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2018-01-02 11:27:11 AM  
Because the Vegas guy had better aim ? Seriously, if you want to reduce the murder rate hire more paramedics. Don't hire cops.
 
2018-01-02 11:39:55 AM  

One Bad Apple: Seriously, if you want to reduce the murder rate hire more paramedics. Don't hire cops.


img.fark.netView Full Size


Of all the things we could do in the 312/773, THIS is your solution?

Just for ease of use, here ya go:  http://crime.chicagotribune.com/chic​ag​o/homicides Scroll through the December homicides alone and you'll see that almost every single one involved shootings at very close range, a significant majority of them being shots to the head or neck (and those shootings that weren't did things like dissect the victims femoral artery).

More police is absolutely a solution, but we don't have legitimate community policing because police aren't living in Lawndale/Englewood/Austin/South Shore.

CFD is amazing and I'd take more every day and twice on Sunday; but that's a rounding error in reducing the death rate.
 
2018-01-02 11:48:34 AM  

Byno: Just for ease of use, here ya go:  http://crime.chicagotribune.com/chica​go/homicides Scroll through the December homicides alone and you'll see that almost every single one involved shootings at very close range, a significant majority of them being shots to the head or neck


And that is why you need to look at total SHOOTINGS vs homicides. Of course the close range head shots end in fatalities but how many people with abdominal wounds survived ?Focusing on the murder rate dropping off in the coldest months is a statistical trick to make Chicago look better than it is.
 
2018-01-02 11:56:42 AM  
One Bad Apple: Words

Stop digging.  Just stop.  You're not only wrong, but you moved the goal posts.  How many people with abdominal wounds survived?  Well, if almost all of the murders are close range head and neck shots that sever arteries or result in instant death, then....

And I'm not focusing on the raw numbers, just pointing out that adding rigs to CFD will do almost nothing to change the MURDER rate.

Clearly you know very little/nothing about the city; there's a small mountain of white papers on reducing the homicide rate in Chicago; implementing those strategies is literally a generational project, so flippantly suggesting we just add medics when there's not a lot a medic can do about a victim being shot twice in the head and once in the neck is just pants on head stupid.
 
2018-01-02 12:03:07 PM  
To crack down on gang members, Johnson said prosecutors and police will step up use of the state's anti-racketeering law "to hold leaders of these gangs more accountable."

While this is all well and good, I think we need to look deeper into what it is that makes people just accept taking another person's life as a resolution to conflict and correct that. It's not just Chicago, it's St. Louis, Baltimore New Orleans...These are American cities where American citizens are killing each other with impunity and it breaks my heart.
 
2018-01-02 12:39:37 PM  

Dancin_In_Anson: To crack down on gang members, Johnson said prosecutors and police will step up use of the state's anti-racketeering law "to hold leaders of these gangs more accountable."

While this is all well and good, I think we need to look deeper into what it is that makes people just accept taking another person's life as a resolution to conflict and correct that. It's not just Chicago, it's St. Louis, Baltimore New Orleans...These are American cities where American citizens are killing each other with impunity and it breaks my heart.


Sure it does. Sure it does...

/don't for a second believe you care
//wonder what the cities you cited have in common
 
2018-01-02 01:13:56 PM  

Gubbo: Dancin_In_Anson: To crack down on gang members, Johnson said prosecutors and police will step up use of the state's anti-racketeering law "to hold leaders of these gangs more accountable."

While this is all well and good, I think we need to look deeper into what it is that makes people just accept taking another person's life as a resolution to conflict and correct that. It's not just Chicago, it's St. Louis, Baltimore New Orleans...These are American cities where American citizens are killing each other with impunity and it breaks my heart.

Sure it does. Sure it does...

/don't for a second believe you care
//wonder what the cities you cited have in common


People with skin colors you hate are more prominent in those cities, so they're automatically evil to you?
 
2018-01-02 01:14:12 PM  
It's apparently funny to make jokes about mass murder these days, when the victims are mostly white folks.

And BTW the Vegas perp was anxious about losing a lot of money gambling and not being rich any more, it would seem, although that part has been downplayed by the LV cops and the casinos, which had changed the odds on the machines he played and profited from his losses.
 
2018-01-02 01:16:54 PM  

One Bad Apple: Focusing on the murder rate dropping off in the coldest months is a statistical trick to make Chicago look better than it is.


But I don't think that the GD's take cold weather into consideration....
 
2018-01-02 01:17:00 PM  

Animatronik: It's apparently funny to make jokes about mass murder these days, when the victims are mostly white folks.

And BTW the Vegas perp was anxious about losing a lot of money gambling and not being rich any more, it would seem, although that part has been downplayed by the LV cops and the casinos, which had changed the odds on the machines he played and profited from his losses.


I'm trying very hard to parse that. Are you saying that murdering people with lots of weaponry is a reasonable response to losing money gambling? Or implying the casino is to blame? Or, you know I'm not gonna try dig any deeper.
 
2018-01-02 01:18:20 PM  
Trump making Chicago great again?!?!?!

THANK YOU TRUMP!!!
 
2018-01-02 01:19:45 PM  

Gubbo: Dancin_In_Anson: To crack down on gang members, Johnson said prosecutors and police will step up use of the state's anti-racketeering law "to hold leaders of these gangs more accountable."

While this is all well and good, I think we need to look deeper into what it is that makes people just accept taking another person's life as a resolution to conflict and correct that. It's not just Chicago, it's St. Louis, Baltimore New Orleans...These are American cities where American citizens are killing each other with impunity and it breaks my heart.

Sure it does. Sure it does...

/don't for a second believe you care
//wonder what the cities you cited have in common


They have higher murder rates than Bangor, Maine ?
 
2018-01-02 01:20:53 PM  
I know someone who created a pretty funny Twitter account based on Trump's descriptions of Chicago and its violence.  I recommend checking it out:  @RealCHIPictures
 
2018-01-02 01:21:27 PM  

Dancin_In_Anson: To crack down on gang members, Johnson said prosecutors and police will step up use of the state's anti-racketeering law "to hold leaders of these gangs more accountable."

While this is all well and good, I think we need to look deeper into what it is that makes people just accept taking another person's life as a resolution to conflict and correct that. It's not just Chicago, it's St. Louis, Baltimore New Orleans...These are American cities where American citizens are killing each other with impunity and it breaks my heart.


Chicago doesn't even crack the top thirty, and it hasn't for years. Waco and South Bend have higher rates of murder.
 
2018-01-02 01:23:18 PM  

Gubbo: Dancin_In_Anson: To crack down on gang members, Johnson said prosecutors and police will step up use of the state's anti-racketeering law "to hold leaders of these gangs more accountable."

While this is all well and good, I think we need to look deeper into what it is that makes people just accept taking another person's life as a resolution to conflict and correct that. It's not just Chicago, it's St. Louis, Baltimore New Orleans...These are American cities where American citizens are killing each other with impunity and it breaks my heart.

Sure it does. Sure it does...

/don't for a second believe you care
//wonder what the cities you cited have in common


large populations.  Empirically more crime occurs in areas with larger populations.
 
2018-01-02 01:23:30 PM  

AllUpInYa: Gubbo: Dancin_In_Anson: To crack down on gang members, Johnson said prosecutors and police will step up use of the state's anti-racketeering law "to hold leaders of these gangs more accountable."

While this is all well and good, I think we need to look deeper into what it is that makes people just accept taking another person's life as a resolution to conflict and correct that. It's not just Chicago, it's St. Louis, Baltimore New Orleans...These are American cities where American citizens are killing each other with impunity and it breaks my heart.

Sure it does. Sure it does...

/don't for a second believe you care
//wonder what the cities you cited have in common

They have higher murder rates than Bangor, Maine ?


That must be it...
 
2018-01-02 01:25:49 PM  

Gubbo: Animatronik: It's apparently funny to make jokes about mass murder these days, when the victims are mostly white folks.

And BTW the Vegas perp was anxious about losing a lot of money gambling and not being rich any more, it would seem, although that part has been downplayed by the LV cops and the casinos, which had changed the odds on the machines he played and profited from his losses.

I'm trying very hard to parse that. Are you saying that murdering people with lots of weaponry is a reasonable response to losing money gambling? Or implying the casino is to blame? Or, you know I'm not gonna try dig any deeper.



I think his point is that the Vegas tourism industry doesn't want people to think about the fact that you can lose a lot of money in Sin City.

/Used to love going to Vegas.
//But now they nickel and dime you for everything.
///A while back, I was at a bar inside the Wynn, and a Coors Light was $8 and change.
////These days, they treat you like you should be grateful for being there.
 
2018-01-02 01:26:40 PM  

Trivia Jockey: I know someone who created a pretty funny Twitter account based on Trump's descriptions of Chicago and its violence.  I recommend checking it out:  @RealCHIPictures


You aren't wrong, that's pretty funny stuff.
 
2018-01-02 01:28:24 PM  

The_Sponge: Gubbo: Animatronik: It's apparently funny to make jokes about mass murder these days, when the victims are mostly white folks.

And BTW the Vegas perp was anxious about losing a lot of money gambling and not being rich any more, it would seem, although that part has been downplayed by the LV cops and the casinos, which had changed the odds on the machines he played and profited from his losses.

I'm trying very hard to parse that. Are you saying that murdering people with lots of weaponry is a reasonable response to losing money gambling? Or implying the casino is to blame? Or, you know I'm not gonna try dig any deeper.


I think his point is that the Vegas tourism industry doesn't want people to think about the fact that you can lose a lot of money in Sin City.

/Used to love going to Vegas.
//But now they nickel and dime you for everything.
///A while back, I was at a bar inside the Wynn, and a Coors Light was $8 and change.
////These days, they treat you like you should be grateful for being there.


Stay and gamble on Fremont street, it's a much better experience.
 
2018-01-02 01:28:25 PM  

Animatronik: It's apparently funny to make jokes about mass murder these days, when the victims are mostly white folks.

And BTW the Vegas perp was anxious about losing a lot of money gambling and not being rich any more, it would seem, although that part has been downplayed by the LV cops and the casinos, which had changed the odds on the machines he played and profited from his losses.


not sure I buy the "anxious about losing money" explanation.  There is line you can draw from that to methodically shooting a bunch of people from a hotel balcony.  Him shooting up the place wasn't random (although the targets were), and it wasn't spur of the moment.

That felt like a workplace shooting in style.
 
2018-01-02 01:29:15 PM  

AllUpInYa: But I don't think that the GD's take cold weather into consideration....


It is probably harder to draw a weapon when you have to unzip 3 jackets to get it out. Plus mittens aren't going to fit inside the trigger guard.
 
2018-01-02 01:30:00 PM  

the voice of raisin: Gubbo: Dancin_In_Anson: To crack down on gang members, Johnson said prosecutors and police will step up use of the state's anti-racketeering law "to hold leaders of these gangs more accountable."

While this is all well and good, I think we need to look deeper into what it is that makes people just accept taking another person's life as a resolution to conflict and correct that. It's not just Chicago, it's St. Louis, Baltimore New Orleans...These are American cities where American citizens are killing each other with impunity and it breaks my heart.

Sure it does. Sure it does...

/don't for a second believe you care
//wonder what the cities you cited have in common

large populations.  Empirically more crime occurs in areas with larger populations.


Hmm, what happens if we were to apply some kind of statistical rigor to those absolute numbers. Would those cities still rank as the most murder-y?
 
2018-01-02 01:30:33 PM  

jst3p: Stay and gamble on Fremont street, it's a much better experience.


I'm off to Sin City in a few weeks. Perfectly happy to gamble on Fremont, but I just can't imagine staying there.
 
2018-01-02 01:30:40 PM  

The_Sponge: Gubbo: Animatronik: It's apparently funny to make jokes about mass murder these days, when the victims are mostly white folks.

And BTW the Vegas perp was anxious about losing a lot of money gambling and not being rich any more, it would seem, although that part has been downplayed by the LV cops and the casinos, which had changed the odds on the machines he played and profited from his losses.

I'm trying very hard to parse that. Are you saying that murdering people with lots of weaponry is a reasonable response to losing money gambling? Or implying the casino is to blame? Or, you know I'm not gonna try dig any deeper.


I think his point is that the Vegas tourism industry doesn't want people to think about the fact that you can lose a lot of money in Sin City.

/Used to love going to Vegas.
//But now they nickel and dime you for everything.
///A while back, I was at a bar inside the Wynn, and a Coors Light was $8 and change.
////These days, they treat you like you should be grateful for being there.


See your problem was not making sure the bartender saw you slip a $20 into the video poker machine then half-heartedly playing a couple of hands at $.25 or .50 and then cashing out once you get your drink, so it's only $1 or 2.
 
2018-01-02 01:34:33 PM  
It's too cold to shoot anotha brotha right now;

keep hoping they'll hit 1,000 some year
 
2018-01-02 01:36:02 PM  

Gubbo: jst3p: Stay and gamble on Fremont street, it's a much better experience.

I'm off to Sin City in a few weeks. Perfectly happy to gamble on Fremont, but I just can't imagine staying there.


The Golden Nugget is where we stay. It is obviously older than many places but they keep it very clean. At least that's been my experience.
 
2018-01-02 01:36:56 PM  

Fark It: See your problem was not making sure the bartender saw you slip a $20 into the video poker machine then half-heartedly playing a couple of hands at $.25 or .50 and then cashing out once you get your drink, so it's only $1 or 2.


That's computer controlled now in most bars at higher level casinos.
 
2018-01-02 01:37:09 PM  

DarkSoulNoHope: People with skin colors you hate are more prominent in those cities, so they're automatically evil to you?


Must be his problem. My hometown of Houston on the other hand is I am proud to say one of the most ethnically diverse cities in the world and their murder rate doesn't even come close to those I listed.
 
2018-01-02 01:42:28 PM  
Good thing it's a gun free sanctuary city.
 
2018-01-02 01:48:57 PM  

One Bad Apple: AllUpInYa: But I don't think that the GD's take cold weather into consideration....

It is probably harder to draw a weapon when you have to unzip 3 jackets to get it out. Plus mittens aren't going to fit inside the trigger guard.


The Russians used long triggers that could be pulled with mittens on 
img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2018-01-02 01:49:24 PM  

Dancin_In_Anson: DarkSoulNoHope: People with skin colors you hate are more prominent in those cities, so they're automatically evil to you?

Must be his problem. My hometown of Houston on the other hand is I am proud to say one of the most ethnically diverse cities in the world and their murder rate doesn't even come close to those I listed.


Milwaukee, of all places, has a higher murder rate than Chicago. West Palm Beach as well.
 
2018-01-02 01:51:34 PM  
Fake News!! I've been assured time and again on Fark that the loosening of the gun ban in Chicago was going to lead to skyrocketing gun crime.  Clearly this is a conspiracy between the mass media and the NRA to make us think that criminals don't obey the law.
 
2018-01-02 01:55:33 PM  

Gubbo: Dancin_In_Anson: DarkSoulNoHope: People with skin colors you hate are more prominent in those cities, so they're automatically evil to you?

Must be his problem. My hometown of Houston on the other hand is I am proud to say one of the most ethnically diverse cities in the world and their murder rate doesn't even come close to those I listed.

Milwaukee, of all places, has a higher murder rate than Chicago. West Palm Beach as well.


It's almost as if there's a Narrative that must be maintained.
 
2018-01-02 01:58:44 PM  

fifthhorseman: Gubbo: Dancin_In_Anson: DarkSoulNoHope: People with skin colors you hate are more prominent in those cities, so they're automatically evil to you?

Must be his problem. My hometown of Houston on the other hand is I am proud to say one of the most ethnically diverse cities in the world and their murder rate doesn't even come close to those I listed.

Milwaukee, of all places, has a higher murder rate than Chicago. West Palm Beach as well.

It's almost as if there's a Narrative that must be maintained.


I suspect you might be on to something there.
 
2018-01-02 02:02:53 PM  

One Bad Apple: AllUpInYa: But I don't think that the GD's take cold weather into consideration....

It is probably harder to draw a weapon when you have to unzip 3 jackets to get it out. Plus mittens aren't going to fit inside the trigger guard.


I remember a time when the claim was that murders got lower in the summer.  If you have to wear an unfashionable amount of clothes to conceal a gun, it isn't exactly concealed anymore.  Also, going to your car/truck to get a gun gives the other guy the obvious clue it is time to leave.
/didn't drop to zero, obviously
//but it was measurable
///third slashie is dying from gunshot wounds
 
2018-01-02 02:03:00 PM  

jst3p: Gubbo: jst3p: Stay and gamble on Fremont street, it's a much better experience.

I'm off to Sin City in a few weeks. Perfectly happy to gamble on Fremont, but I just can't imagine staying there.

The Golden Nugget is where we stay. It is obviously older than many places but they keep it very clean. At least that's been my experience.



You nailed it....I've stayed there during New Year's Even in the past, and it was great.

/The Four Queens can suck it.
//Stayed there once for New Year's, and 2 out of their 3 elevators were broken.
 
2018-01-02 02:09:59 PM  

The_Sponge: jst3p: Gubbo: jst3p: Stay and gamble on Fremont street, it's a much better experience.

I'm off to Sin City in a few weeks. Perfectly happy to gamble on Fremont, but I just can't imagine staying there.

The Golden Nugget is where we stay. It is obviously older than many places but they keep it very clean. At least that's been my experience.


You nailed it....I've stayed there during New Year's Even in the past, and it was great.

/The Four Queens can suck it.
//Stayed there once for New Year's, and 2 out of their 3 elevators were broken.


Ok I'm staying in NYNY because some friends are going and it was cheap. I'd much rather Aria (but not for gambling, much as I love that place I don't think I've ever gambled in it).

/not counting women you pick up at the pool, that's a whole different kind of gambling
 
2018-01-02 02:10:24 PM  

Gubbo: Milwaukee, of all places, has a higher murder rate than Chicago. West Palm Beach as well.


Which takes us back to

Dancin_In_Anson: These are American cities where American citizens are killing each other with impunity and it breaks my heart.

 
2018-01-02 02:12:02 PM  

Ms Challenge: One Bad Apple: AllUpInYa: But I don't think that the GD's take cold weather into consideration....

It is probably harder to draw a weapon when you have to unzip 3 jackets to get it out. Plus mittens aren't going to fit inside the trigger guard.

The Russians used long triggers that could be pulled with mittens on [img.fark.net image 225x224][View Full Size image _x_]


That would be the trigger for the STG57/SIG 510. Swiss not Russian
 
2018-01-02 02:15:59 PM  
Could be the previous murders reduced the population so there are fewer people left to murder.
 
2018-01-02 02:20:01 PM  

Dancin_In_Anson: Gubbo: Milwaukee, of all places, has a higher murder rate than Chicago. West Palm Beach as well.

Which takes us back to Dancin_In_Anson: These are American cities where American citizens are killing each other with impunity and it breaks my heart.


And yet you didn't mention those. You went with the narrative. But that's ok, people recognise that it is a narrative.
 
2018-01-02 02:24:19 PM  
Look, a positive effect of climate change.
 
2018-01-02 02:51:28 PM  
I don't know why it took me till now to think of this but...

Could the reason we haven't heard squat about the Vegas shooter be because of the monied interests in Vegas not wanting the tourism industry to shrink? I feel like a moron for not considering this quite simple and straightforward explanation for the seeming blackout on the news surrounding one if the most horrific mass attacks in US history.

I am sure I'm not the first to think of this but it would be in line with the priorities of our current White House occupant.
 
2018-01-02 02:56:40 PM  

Vermithrax Perjorative: I don't know why it took me till now to think of this but...

Could the reason we haven't heard squat about the Vegas shooter be because of the monied interests in Vegas not wanting the tourism industry to shrink? I feel like a moron for not considering this quite simple and straightforward explanation for the seeming blackout on the news surrounding one if the most horrific mass attacks in US history.

I am sure I'm not the first to think of this but it would be in line with the priorities of our current White House occupant.


It's because he doesn't fit the profile that gets lasting attention.
 
2018-01-02 03:15:50 PM  

AllUpInYa: One Bad Apple: Focusing on the murder rate dropping off in the coldest months is a statistical trick to make Chicago look better than it is.

But I don't think that the GD's take cold weather into consideration....


I don't know.

"I heard that Big D's back in town. Let's drive by his place and get him."
"You think he's gonna be sittin' on the front porch? It's farkin' -15!"
"OK, then we drive by and shoot his house."
"I ain't rolling down no windows. Dintcha hear what I said. It's farkin' -15!"
"Shiat. Then we ring his bell. When he opens the door..."
"Are you farking deaf? It's farkin' freezing out there. I'm staying home. You wanna freeze your ass off, fine. Otherwise I'll help you around March."
 
2018-01-02 03:19:13 PM  

Ms Challenge: One Bad Apple: AllUpInYa: But I don't think that the GD's take cold weather into consideration....

It is probably harder to draw a weapon when you have to unzip 3 jackets to get it out. Plus mittens aren't going to fit inside the trigger guard.

The Russians used long triggers that could be pulled with mittens on [img.fark.net image 225x224][View Full Size image _x_]


Alternatively:
colemans.comView Full Size

We also had mittens that would unzip so you could stick out your trigger finger.
 
2018-01-02 03:26:26 PM  
When you have a homicide rate with numbers like Chicago, or more importantly with percentages like St. Louis or Baltimore, you can add all the paramedics and police you want and you aren't going to fix the problem.  Its a societal issue that is only going to decrease when the community decides it has to stop and there is enough realistic social pressure within to bring it down.  Once it become less of an epidemic, then policing will resume being more than a Band-Aid.
 
2018-01-02 03:30:31 PM  
Thanks Obama!

It can not be said too often.

 
2018-01-02 03:35:52 PM  
To crack down on gang members, Johnson said prosecutors and police will step up use of the state's anti-racketeering law "to hold leaders of these gangs more accountable.

Problem with that is that is exactly how we got to where we are today. The big gang leaders were taken down and the gangs balkanized to tiny little strips of land. There may be some loose affiliation among them, but in reality the "large" gangs are not there anymore, and that makes all the conflict even easier to escalate as there is no one to walk things back for the whole group.

Also, the whole issue of our clearance rate and the negative reinforcement loop it gets in to. Cops don't clear murders, so people don't want to talk to cops because word may get around while the killers are still out, so the cops don't clear another murder, and people are less likely to work with the police. Only around 20% of murders are solved here now.
 
2018-01-02 03:43:26 PM  

One Bad Apple: Because the Vegas guy had better aim ? Seriously, if you want to reduce the murder rate hire more paramedics. Don't hire cops.


LOL, umm NO. You want to reduce the murder rate? How about we remove the conditions and the environment where people turn violent and become murderers?
Last I check Japan, Sweden, Denmark etc. has much less paramedics then we do per capita and I'm pretty darn sure their ENTIRE country has less murders in the pass 10 years than Chicago has in 1 month!
 
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