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(Washington Post)   Trump's lawyer -- well, one of them -- is the only man in history to secure a preemptive presidential pardon for a man who didn't work with the president   ( washingtonpost.com) divider line
    More: Interesting, President of the United States, Symington, Bill Clinton, Dowd, governor Fife Symington, Gerald Ford, Symington case, George H. W. Bush  
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3256 clicks; posted to Politics » on 02 Jan 2018 at 11:16 AM (28 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



37 Comments     (+0 »)
 
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2018-01-02 09:07:00 AM  
Trump can't pardon state crimes and the NY and NJ AGs are all cooperating with Mueller's team. Trumpy's Korrupt Kriminal Klan is going to prison for a long time.

/Chessmate, Cheetardo
 
2018-01-02 10:01:31 AM  

Farking Clown Shoes: Trump can't pardon state crimes and the NY and NJ AGs are all cooperating with Mueller's team. Trumpy's Korrupt Kriminal Klan is going to prison for a long time.

/Chessmate, Cheetardo


Pretty sure Trump is President of all the states.  If he's President of New York, he can pardon NY crimes.
 
2018-01-02 10:06:02 AM  

foo monkey: Farking Clown Shoes: Trump can't pardon state crimes and the NY and NJ AGs are all cooperating with Mueller's team. Trumpy's Korrupt Kriminal Klan is going to prison for a long time.

/Chessmate, Cheetardo

Pretty sure Trump is President of all the states.  If he's President of New York, he can pardon NY crimes.


Keep telling yourself that.
 
2018-01-02 10:06:05 AM  
Did Trump's lawyers get their law degrees from Cracker Jack boxes?
 
2018-01-02 10:11:37 AM  

foo monkey: Farking Clown Shoes: Trump can't pardon state crimes and the NY and NJ AGs are all cooperating with Mueller's team. Trumpy's Korrupt Kriminal Klan is going to prison for a long time.

/Chessmate, Cheetardo

Pretty sure Trump is President of all the states.  If he's President of New York, he can pardon NY crimes.


States rights!  Until they become inconvenient!
 
2018-01-02 10:21:21 AM  
So Marc Rich worked for Bill Clinton?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marc_Ri​c​h
 
2018-01-02 10:22:56 AM  

dittybopper: So Marc Rich worked for Bill Clinton?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marc_Ric​h


Sorry, missed the word "preemptive".

i.pinimg.comView Full Size
 
2018-01-02 10:25:20 AM  

dittybopper: dittybopper: So Marc Rich worked for Bill Clinton?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marc_Ric​h

Sorry, missed the word "preemptive".

[i.pinimg.com image 320x240][View Full Size image _x_]


Wanna take another shot at it?
 
2018-01-02 10:26:59 AM  

Diogenes: foo monkey: Farking Clown Shoes: Trump can't pardon state crimes and the NY and NJ AGs are all cooperating with Mueller's team. Trumpy's Korrupt Kriminal Klan is going to prison for a long time.

/Chessmate, Cheetardo

Pretty sure Trump is President of all the states.  If he's President of New York, he can pardon NY crimes.

States rights!  Until they become inconvenient!


Well, first of all, states don't have rights and never have.  Rights only attach to individuals.  States have enumerated powers.

But aside from that, both sides whine about "states rights" when it's convenient to their ideology, and ignore them when it's inconvenient.    It's all relative to them, and it's why both sides suck.
 
2018-01-02 10:35:01 AM  

dittybopper: Diogenes: foo monkey: Farking Clown Shoes: Trump can't pardon state crimes and the NY and NJ AGs are all cooperating with Mueller's team. Trumpy's Korrupt Kriminal Klan is going to prison for a long time.

/Chessmate, Cheetardo

Pretty sure Trump is President of all the states.  If he's President of New York, he can pardon NY crimes.

States rights!  Until they become inconvenient!

Well, first of all, states don't have rights and never have.  Rights only attach to individuals.  States have enumerated powers.

But aside from that, both sides whine about "states rights" when it's convenient to their ideology, and ignore them when it's inconvenient.    It's all relative to them, and it's why both sides suck.


So vote Republican, right?
 
2018-01-02 10:44:25 AM  

Jake Havechek: dittybopper: Diogenes: foo monkey: Farking Clown Shoes: Trump can't pardon state crimes and the NY and NJ AGs are all cooperating with Mueller's team. Trumpy's Korrupt Kriminal Klan is going to prison for a long time.

/Chessmate, Cheetardo

Pretty sure Trump is President of all the states.  If he's President of New York, he can pardon NY crimes.

States rights!  Until they become inconvenient!

Well, first of all, states don't have rights and never have.  Rights only attach to individuals.  States have enumerated powers.

But aside from that, both sides whine about "states rights" when it's convenient to their ideology, and ignore them when it's inconvenient.    It's all relative to them, and it's why both sides suck.

So vote Republican, right?


He does... but doesn't want to admit it. For someone that does not like Trump and claims he didn't vote for Trump, he is constantly defending Trump around here.
 
2018-01-02 10:48:08 AM  

foo monkey: Pretty sure Trump is President of all the states. If he's President of New York, he can pardon NY crimes.


I wouldn't be surprised if Trump believed that.
 
2018-01-02 11:18:09 AM  

Jake Havechek: dittybopper: Diogenes: foo monkey: Farking Clown Shoes: Trump can't pardon state crimes and the NY and NJ AGs are all cooperating with Mueller's team. Trumpy's Korrupt Kriminal Klan is going to prison for a long time.

/Chessmate, Cheetardo

Pretty sure Trump is President of all the states.  If he's President of New York, he can pardon NY crimes.

States rights!  Until they become inconvenient!

Well, first of all, states don't have rights and never have.  Rights only attach to individuals.  States have enumerated powers.

But aside from that, both sides whine about "states rights" when it's convenient to their ideology, and ignore them when it's inconvenient.    It's all relative to them, and it's why both sides suck.

So vote Republican, right?


From the rooftops.
 
2018-01-02 11:19:03 AM  

hugram: Jake Havechek: dittybopper: Diogenes: foo monkey: Farking Clown Shoes: Trump can't pardon state crimes and the NY and NJ AGs are all cooperating with Mueller's team. Trumpy's Korrupt Kriminal Klan is going to prison for a long time.

/Chessmate, Cheetardo

Pretty sure Trump is President of all the states.  If he's President of New York, he can pardon NY crimes.

States rights!  Until they become inconvenient!

Well, first of all, states don't have rights and never have.  Rights only attach to individuals.  States have enumerated powers.

But aside from that, both sides whine about "states rights" when it's convenient to their ideology, and ignore them when it's inconvenient.    It's all relative to them, and it's why both sides suck.

So vote Republican, right?

He does... but doesn't want to admit it. For someone that does not like Trump and claims he didn't vote for Trump, he is constantly defending Trump around here.


I'm surprised he stuck around long enough to admit a mistake. Let's see how long that lasts.

/Intelligence Community "expert" that he is
 
2018-01-02 11:19:55 AM  
This guy looks like Prostetnic Vogon Jeltz.
 
2018-01-02 11:25:46 AM  

dittybopper: Diogenes: foo monkey: Farking Clown Shoes: Trump can't pardon state crimes and the NY and NJ AGs are all cooperating with Mueller's team. Trumpy's Korrupt Kriminal Klan is going to prison for a long time.

/Chessmate, Cheetardo

Pretty sure Trump is President of all the states.  If he's President of New York, he can pardon NY crimes.

States rights!  Until they become inconvenient!

Well, first of all, states don't have rights and never have.  Rights only attach to individuals.  States have enumerated powers.

But aside from that, both sides whine about "states rights" when it's convenient to their ideology, and ignore them when it's inconvenient.    It's all relative to them, and it's why both sides suck.


Well bless your heart, sweety.
 
2018-01-02 11:26:36 AM  
Yup. And also, keep in mind that if you receive a pardon, you gotta testify with NO 5th Amendment to save your ass.
 
2018-01-02 11:26:37 AM  

foo monkey: Farking Clown Shoes: Trump can't pardon state crimes and the NY and NJ AGs are all cooperating with Mueller's team. Trumpy's Korrupt Kriminal Klan is going to prison for a long time.

/Chessmate, Cheetardo

Pretty sure Trump is President of all the states.  If he's President of New York, he can pardon NY crimes.


Fox Kids - King of the Hill meets Silver Surfer
Youtube h1FLRlVnHJQ
 
2018-01-02 11:28:43 AM  

dittybopper: Diogenes: foo monkey: Farking Clown Shoes: Trump can't pardon state crimes and the NY and NJ AGs are all cooperating with Mueller's team. Trumpy's Korrupt Kriminal Klan is going to prison for a long time.

/Chessmate, Cheetardo

Pretty sure Trump is President of all the states.  If he's President of New York, he can pardon NY crimes.

States rights!  Until they become inconvenient!

Well, first of all, states don't have rights and never have.  Rights only attach to individuals.  States have enumerated powers.

But aside from that, both sides whine about "states rights" when it's convenient to their ideology, and ignore them when it's inconvenient.    It's all relative to them, and it's why both sides suck.


Discounting gun rights, when a conservative gets frothy about states rights it is usually about denying someone rights or stripping them away and when a liberal gets frothy about states rights it is to give people rights.  Furthermore and such as both sides are not equally bad.

/don't vote republican
 
2018-01-02 11:29:05 AM  
It almost seems like Trump and his associates are involved in criminal activities.
 
2018-01-02 11:29:36 AM  

dittybopper: But aside from that, both sides whine about "states rights" when it's convenient to their ideology, and ignore them when it's inconvenient.    It's all relative to them, and it's why both sides suck.


Republicans whine about state's rights. Democrats only point out the hypocricy when Republicans decide to use the Federal government to promote their agenda over local control.
 
2018-01-02 11:30:10 AM  

foo monkey: Farking Clown Shoes: Trump can't pardon state crimes and the NY and NJ AGs are all cooperating with Mueller's team. Trumpy's Korrupt Kriminal Klan is going to prison for a long time.

/Chessmate, Cheetardo

Pretty sure Trump is President of all the states.  If he's President of New York, he can pardon NY crimes.


Separation of powers, and the divide between. Federal and state governments, how does it work?
 
2018-01-02 11:30:13 AM  
I think I have seen this lawyer somewhere before:
kaiju.wdfiles.comView Full Size
 
2018-01-02 11:30:20 AM  
If I had a nickel for every jackdonkey on here that claims they are middle-of-the-road politically, yet constantly back Trump, I'd have at least $4.65 by now.
 
2018-01-02 11:31:15 AM  

dittybopper: States have enumerated powers.


Why would you fuss about the choice of the word "rights" if you don't know what "enumerated" means?
 
2018-01-02 11:35:20 AM  

moothemagiccow: dittybopper: States have enumerated powers.

Why would you fuss about the choice of the word "rights" if you don't know what "enumerated" means?


Electronically Numbered, right?
 
2018-01-02 11:35:43 AM  

fat_free: Yup. And also, keep in mind that if you receive a pardon, you gotta testify with NO 5th Amendment to save your ass.


Does that loss of the fifth apply to a Presidential pardon wrt state-level testimony?
 
2018-01-02 11:38:20 AM  

foo monkey: Farking Clown Shoes: Trump can't pardon state crimes and the NY and NJ AGs are all cooperating with Mueller's team. Trumpy's Korrupt Kriminal Klan is going to prison for a long time.

/Chessmate, Cheetardo

Pretty sure Trump is President of all the states.  If he's President of New York, he can pardon NY crimes.


The Justice Department does not agree with you:

https://www.justice.gov/pardon/freque​n​tly-asked-questions-concerning-executi​ve-clemency#0
 
2018-01-02 11:39:01 AM  
Hillary better hope he's feeling generous with his pardons, because Mueller is going to lock her up any day now.
 
2018-01-02 11:39:16 AM  

edrick: I think I have seen this lawyer somewhere before:
[kaiju.wdfiles.com image 850x550][View Full Size image _x_]


Came for the Vogon reference, leaving happy.
 
2018-01-02 11:40:49 AM  
"The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."

This amendment is meaningless if the federal government has the right to preempt any state action.  While some later amendments, like the 14th, curtail its breadth, stating that any law is subject to federal executive pardon is tantamount to stating the the states do not have the power to pass their own laws, or to carry out sentences.  After all, any law that the president doesn't like could just be nullified.
 
2018-01-02 11:44:54 AM  

dionysusaur: fat_free: Yup. And also, keep in mind that if you receive a pardon, you gotta testify with NO 5th Amendment to save your ass.

Does that loss of the fifth apply to a Presidential pardon wrt state-level testimony?


Kinda.

The implicit admission of guilt refers to the facts of what you did.  What you admit to doing doesn't change from state to state.

You still get the 5th amemdment right against testifying against yourself at state level, but your federal pardon and that implicit admission of guilt can be used against you.
 
2018-01-02 11:46:01 AM  

Jake Havechek: If I had a nickel for every jackdonkey on here that claims they are middle-of-the-road politically, yet constantly back Trump, I'd have at least $4.65 by now.


Only been looking at the Pol tab for a couple of hours, eh?
 
2018-01-02 12:13:20 PM  

dittybopper: Diogenes: foo monkey: Farking Clown Shoes: Trump can't pardon state crimes and the NY and NJ AGs are all cooperating with Mueller's team. Trumpy's Korrupt Kriminal Klan is going to prison for a long time.

/Chessmate, Cheetardo

Pretty sure Trump is President of all the states.  If he's President of New York, he can pardon NY crimes.

States rights!  Until they become inconvenient!

Well, first of all, states don't have rights and never have.  Rights only attach to individuals.  States have enumerated powers.

But aside from that, both sides whine about "states rights" when it's convenient to their ideology, and ignore them when it's inconvenient.    It's all relative to them, and it's why both sides suck.


That's certainly true, but when you look at what each side is arguing for and against when they're for and against states rights, a lot of things become clear.

Historically (and it's still true today), conservatives want states rights to hurt other people and argue against states rights that prevent them from hurting others. See the Fugitive Slave Act of 1850 and even today with voter restrictions, fighting Obamacare, removing abortion rights and diminishing education.

Progressives have argued for states rights when it means protecting and helping people, and have argued against states rights when a state wants to use it to hurt people. In the 1840s and 50s, progressives argues for states rights to protect freed slaves and argued against states rights to end slavery. Today, progressives argue for states rights for healthcare, drug reform, improving education, and much more, while arguing against states rights when a state is trying to harm people.

Before the 1970s, it didn't matter if it was a Democrat or a Republican; progressives and conservatives we're fairly evenly distributed amongst both. Today, the Dems have the majority of the progressives and the republicans have the majority of the conservatives.

But it's still true that conservatives use states rights to hurt, and progressives use it to help. It's all a matter of the reason behind the argument.
 
2018-01-02 12:28:49 PM  

mgshamster: dittybopper: Diogenes: foo monkey: Farking Clown Shoes: Trump can't pardon state crimes and the NY and NJ AGs are all cooperating with Mueller's team. Trumpy's Korrupt Kriminal Klan is going to prison for a long time.

/Chessmate, Cheetardo

Pretty sure Trump is President of all the states.  If he's President of New York, he can pardon NY crimes.

States rights!  Until they become inconvenient!

Well, first of all, states don't have rights and never have.  Rights only attach to individuals.  States have enumerated powers.

But aside from that, both sides whine about "states rights" when it's convenient to their ideology, and ignore them when it's inconvenient.    It's all relative to them, and it's why both sides suck.

That's certainly true, but when you look at what each side is arguing for and against when they're for and against states rights, a lot of things become clear.

Historically (and it's still true today), conservatives want states rights to hurt other people and argue against states rights that prevent them from hurting others. See the Fugitive Slave Act of 1850 and even today with voter restrictions, fighting Obamacare, removing abortion rights and diminishing education.

Progressives have argued for states rights when it means protecting and helping people, and have argued against states rights when a state wants to use it to hurt people. In the 1840s and 50s, progressives argues for states rights to protect freed slaves and argued against states rights to end slavery. Today, progressives argue for states rights for healthcare, drug reform, improving education, and much more, while arguing against states rights when a state is trying to harm people.

Before the 1970s, it didn't matter if it was a Democrat or a Republican; progressives and conservatives we're fairly evenly distributed amongst both. Today, the Dems have the majority of the progressives and the republicans have the majority of the conservatives.

But it's still true that conservatives use states rights to hurt, and progressives use it to help. It's all a matter of the reason behind the argument.


I disagree with you on this point... Conservatives believe when progressives want to give healthcare access to 'those' people, it hurts instead of helps the humble and oppressed rich CEO's of health insurance companies.

Checkerbingomate, libador.
 
2018-01-02 12:28:57 PM  

andrewagill: You still get the 5th amemdment right against testifying against yourself at state level, but your federal pardon and that implicit admission of guilt can be used against you.


IANAL, but doesn't a federal pardon go beyond that to explicitly require a pardoned person's testimony in cases related to the pardon? IOW, if Trump pardons Flynn, can't Mueller compel his testimony in court against Trump? And wouldn't Flynn be exposed to perjury if he lies under oath?
 
2018-01-02 12:50:00 PM  

edrick: I think I have seen this lawyer somewhere before:
[kaiju.wdfiles.com image 850x550][View Full Size image _x_]


Beat me to it. Reminds me more of the BBC version, though.
upload.wikimedia.orgView Full Size
 
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