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(Expatica)   Germans would like a 28 hour work week. Why have that when you can work 80 hours a week, like in America. I'm sorry, did I say "can"? I meant "have to"   ( expatica.com) divider line
    More: Cool, Working time, IG Metall, Angela Merkel, Trade union, IG Metall union, Employment, IG Metall chief, Labour relations  
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1729 clicks; posted to Business » on 29 Dec 2017 at 5:18 AM (28 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2017-12-29 03:26:25 AM  
No thanks, I live here in America where I work over 35 hours a week at my 'part time' retirement job with no benefits because the union is in the pocket of the company.

Coming up on one year so I get 1 week of vacation! Whoopie!
 
2017-12-29 05:45:03 AM  
37.5 hours a week for me, but I live in a small city of 125,000 so the drive to and from work takes about 10 minutes. I'm a New Zealander in a union (which isn't that common here except in public services and the education sector). I get 5 weeks paid annual leave, 13 paid public holidays and when I hit 10 years with my employer I'll get a week's paid long-service leave. I get 12 days paid sick leave per year, which can be accrued year-on-year. I get cost of living adjustments, predictable salary progression and a generous superannuation match.

That is what a union can do.
 
2017-12-29 06:30:53 AM  
It's not just cruel; it's stupid.  I've never done my best work when on my 60th hour of the week, let alone 80th.

U.S. executives are paid millions of dollars a year to mismanage resources.
 
2017-12-29 06:33:56 AM  

thisispete: I'll get a week's paid long-service leave.


That doesn't seem right
A week for every year maybe?
We get three months paid leave for 10 years which would be close to a week for each
I'm with an industry LSL so as long as I stay in this industry I get LSL no matter who the employer is
This is a good thing because I have had the same job and position for 20 years
We just go through a few employers due to contract changes
 
2017-12-29 06:52:06 AM  

Brian Dead: thisispete: I'll get a week's paid long-service leave.

That doesn't seem right
A week for every year maybe?
We get three months paid leave for 10 years which would be close to a week for each
I'm with an industry LSL so as long as I stay in this industry I get LSL no matter who the employer is
This is a good thing because I have had the same job and position for 20 years
We just go through a few employers due to contract changes


Turns out it's two weeks not one. I've still got four years to go before I qualify.

img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2017-12-29 07:32:47 AM  
In order for the wealth to trickle down, we must do whatever the 1% wants

Oops, I meant "job creators" .
 
2017-12-29 07:45:33 AM  

Brian Dead: thisispete: I'll get a week's paid long-service leave.

That doesn't seem right
A week for every year maybe?
We get three months paid leave for 10 years which would be close to a week for each
I'm with an industry LSL so as long as I stay in this industry I get LSL no matter who the employer is
This is a good thing because I have had the same job and position for 20 years
We just go through a few employers due to contract changes


Both of these seem incredibly wrong. In America, if you hit 10 years service with one company, they send you off to the hunger games.
 
2017-12-29 08:06:23 AM  
If you work people to death they'll have less time to think abiut how farked they are and figure out what to do about it.
 
2017-12-29 08:26:35 AM  
CSB: I was the only blue collar worker in a German language class in San Francisco.  I happened to mention that at my job we got all of .5 day per month to accumulate towards 6 days per year for paid vacation, sick days etc.  The other students - 20-somethings and 30-somethings with white collar jobs - all went, "Whaaaat?"
 
2017-12-29 08:29:49 AM  

El Pachuco: CSB: I was the only blue collar worker in a German language class in San Francisco.  I happened to mention that at my job we got all of .5 day per month to accumulate towards 6 days per year for paid vacation, sick days etc.  The other students - 20-somethings and 30-somethings with white collar jobs - all went, "Whaaaat?"


That really is shocking. I sit at a computer all day and I would turn down twice what you're getting.
 
2017-12-29 08:40:33 AM  
The last thing we want is Germans working hard.
 
2017-12-29 08:48:57 AM  
And they also have 30 paid vacation days, around 12 days of paid public holidays and unlimited paid sick leave.

The horror. Wealth can't trickle down in this country because there is noone there it can trickle down upon
 
2017-12-29 08:51:03 AM  
My Sister and Brother-in-law live in Germany. He works at a large company there and there are already work hour limits and mandatory days off. I want to say its 40 hrs max and 4 weeks but don't quote me on that. Ive been working a 50-60 hour a week day job and freelancing nights and weekends for awhile now. It suuuuuuuucks. This country really sucks right now.
 
2017-12-29 08:51:48 AM  
I work 32 hours a week, 35 when it's extra busy. At my hourly rate, I get 22 vacation days and 9 sick days per year, both roll over. If I were to bump to full time again, I'd get 3 more sick days, 9 paid holidays, and an extra vacation day. I fought for and got a paid paternity leave (out of my sick/vacation pools, but I was happy with it) for my second daughter, though sadly the last director 'misplaced' all the paperwork so I'll have to start from scratch if I need another one (good thing I made copies). It took me ten years to get to this point, I started with zero sick and zero vacation, and have had to slowly claw these benefits out. I make sure my whole department gets the same benefits, and that they know them and use the crap out of them, because it's cheaper for everyone if we maintain the same employees instead of training a revolving door's worth of people.

/Minnesota
//It's like America's own slice of Canada
 
2017-12-29 09:05:41 AM  
Merca's Puritanical work ethic would never allow for this. We are a nation of masochists.
 
2017-12-29 09:13:11 AM  
You know, I get more done in four 6 hour days than three 8 hour days.  But i also get more done in three 10s than in four 8s.  The reason?  Around hour 7 I hit a wall.  Then an hour later I get my second wind.   It's all about what works for you.
 
2017-12-29 09:18:59 AM  

thisispete: 37.5 hours a week for me, but I live in a small city of 125,000 so the drive to and from work takes about 10 minutes. I'm a New Zealander in a union (which isn't that common here except in public services and the education sector). I get 5 weeks paid annual leave, 13 paid public holidays and when I hit 10 years with my employer I'll get a week's paid long-service leave. I get 12 days paid sick leave per year, which can be accrued year-on-year. I get cost of living adjustments, predictable salary progression and a generous superannuation match.

That is what a union can do.


That's cool , but I have pretty much the same without a union .
 
2017-12-29 09:42:24 AM  
I work at white collar job, rarely have to work over 40hrs. Get 20 days off per year and can Tele commute when ever I want  to.

What a hell hole. Wheres my union rep?
 
2017-12-29 10:02:47 AM  

Bugerz: Brian Dead: thisispete: I'll get a week's paid long-service leave.

That doesn't seem right
A week for every year maybe?
We get three months paid leave for 10 years which would be close to a week for each
I'm with an industry LSL so as long as I stay in this industry I get LSL no matter who the employer is
This is a good thing because I have had the same job and position for 20 years
We just go through a few employers due to contract changes

Both of these seem incredibly wrong. In America, if you hit 10 years service with one company, they send you off to the hunger games.


Uh, why post something so damned wrong?  The hunger games is for the child labourer.  Adults become soylent green.  Seriously, why do we even have this dystopian future stories warning us of our current path if no one is going to pay attention to them?!

/public sector union
//pretty happy despite being a political punching bag every couple years when a conservative candidate wants to rile up the swarms of idiots
 
2017-12-29 10:08:11 AM  
It's probably too late for most of you, but for any youngsters out there, here's one path:

- Find a good small to medium sized company (private, shareholders suck) in a sustainable industry
- Take any job they have
- Work long hours, pay attention, see the big picture
- Keep pace with new technology
- WearManyHats so you're helpful, useful and become indispensable

When you hit 40, use your knowledge and experience to write your own ticket1.

1- salary, benefits, time off

/ stay out of jail
// eat right, exercise and stay healthy
/// requires a bit of luck, so don't shoot yourself in the foot
 
2017-12-29 10:15:31 AM  
I'm not sure that people do more than 20 hours of productive work a day as is.

You drive in, decompress from the drive, get a couple good hours in, take lunch, digest, get another couple good hours in, start to think about leaving, then drive home.

But, simply scaling down the number of hours worked per day wouldn't do the trick.  That would compress the productive time while leaving the filler, if there weren't other changes.

Letting people work from home, for example, and paying them for results, without caring about how many hours they worked to deliver those results.
 
2017-12-29 10:20:01 AM  
The German attitude with regards to work is very interesting. When they are at work, their entire body and soul is all about doing their job as quickly and as thoroughly as they can. Then, the moment they punch that clock... You don't even so much as talk to them about what they do for a living. It's actually considered rude to talk to someone in Germany about their job, beyond asking what their profession is and who they work for. There's a saying- "Dienst ist Dienst, und Schnapps ist Schnapps." Literally means, "duty is duty and Schnapps is Schnapps" with an implied "and you don't combine the two."
 
Azz [TotalFark]
2017-12-29 10:48:13 AM  

Greek: The German attitude with regards to work is very interesting. When they are at work, their entire body and soul is all about doing their job as quickly and as thoroughly as they can. Then, the moment they punch that clock... You don't even so much as talk to them about what they do for a living. It's actually considered rude to talk to someone in Germany about their job, beyond asking what their profession is and who they work for. There's a saying- "Dienst ist Dienst, und Schnapps ist Schnapps." Literally means, "duty is duty and Schnapps is Schnapps" with an implied "and you don't combine the two."


In Germany, managers are forbidden from contacting employees outside of the work week unless it's an emergency. Paradise?
 
2017-12-29 11:20:49 AM  

Cache: In order for the wealth to trickle down, we must do whatever the 1% wants

Oops, I meant "job creators" .


no one is more full of shiatt than the richest 1%
 
2017-12-29 11:21:53 AM  

Bugerz: Brian Dead: thisispete: I'll get a week's paid long-service leave.

That doesn't seem right
A week for every year maybe?
We get three months paid leave for 10 years which would be close to a week for each
I'm with an industry LSL so as long as I stay in this industry I get LSL no matter who the employer is
This is a good thing because I have had the same job and position for 20 years
We just go through a few employers due to contract changes

Both of these seem incredibly wrong. In America, if you hit 10 years service with one company, they send you off to the hunger games.


like cattle
 
2017-12-29 11:23:18 AM  

thurstonxhowell: El Pachuco: CSB: I was the only blue collar worker in a German language class in San Francisco.  I happened to mention that at my job we got all of .5 day per month to accumulate towards 6 days per year for paid vacation, sick days etc.  The other students - 20-somethings and 30-somethings with white collar jobs - all went, "Whaaaat?"

That really is shocking. I sit at a computer all day and I would turn down twice what you're getting.


enjoy it until its outsourced to India for cheaper labor.
 
2017-12-29 11:24:31 AM  

wildcardjack: The last thing we want is Germans working hard.


wrong. they live in a humane Democratic system. we dont
 
2017-12-29 11:25:27 AM  

BEER_ME_in_CT: My Sister and Brother-in-law live in Germany. He works at a large company there and there are already work hour limits and mandatory days off. I want to say its 40 hrs max and 4 weeks but don't quote me on that. Ive been working a 50-60 hour a week day job and freelancing nights and weekends for awhile now. It suuuuuuuucks. This country really sucks right now.


yep. Crooks love freedom too.
 
2017-12-29 11:27:33 AM  

Nick Nostril: Merca's Puritanical work ethic would never allow for this. We are a nation of masochists.


Greed and selfishness is the engine.
 
2017-12-29 11:29:06 AM  

RottenEggs: thisispete: 37.5 hours a week for me, but I live in a small city of 125,000 so the drive to and from work takes about 10 minutes. I'm a New Zealander in a union (which isn't that common here except in public services and the education sector). I get 5 weeks paid annual leave, 13 paid public holidays and when I hit 10 years with my employer I'll get a week's paid long-service leave. I get 12 days paid sick leave per year, which can be accrued year-on-year. I get cost of living adjustments, predictable salary progression and a generous superannuation match.

That is what a union can do.

That's cool , but I have pretty much the same without a union .


for now.....wait until they start cutting costs...
 
2017-12-29 11:32:28 AM  

Azz: Greek: The German attitude with regards to work is very interesting. When they are at work, their entire body and soul is all about doing their job as quickly and as thoroughly as they can. Then, the moment they punch that clock... You don't even so much as talk to them about what they do for a living. It's actually considered rude to talk to someone in Germany about their job, beyond asking what their profession is and who they work for. There's a saying- "Dienst ist Dienst, und Schnapps ist Schnapps." Literally means, "duty is duty and Schnapps is Schnapps" with an implied "and you don't combine the two."

In Germany, managers are forbidden from contacting employees outside of the work week unless it's an emergency. Paradise?


no. Labor is respected by rich owners in Germany. here its a bit different. they call it Freedom here.
 
2017-12-29 11:32:51 AM  

Azz: In Germany, managers are forbidden from contacting employees outside of the work week unless it's an emergency.

America has the same rule.  Managers are just told that everything is an emergency.
 
2017-12-29 11:43:19 AM  

Linux_Yes: thurstonxhowell: El Pachuco: CSB: I was the only blue collar worker in a German language class in San Francisco.  I happened to mention that at my job we got all of .5 day per month to accumulate towards 6 days per year for paid vacation, sick days etc.  The other students - 20-somethings and 30-somethings with white collar jobs - all went, "Whaaaat?"

That really is shocking. I sit at a computer all day and I would turn down twice what you're getting.

enjoy it until its outsourced to India for cheaper labor.


Companies have been learning the hard way that outsourcing IT jobs to India reduces costs for about two quarters.  After that, they spend more fixing mistakes or redesigning everything because of communication issues or the shiat quality of "code" produced.
 
2017-12-29 11:54:16 AM  
They want 28 hours for up to 2 years to take care of children/sick family and then also be guaranteed their normal hours back at the end? I'd love to see the logistics of this.

/Because everyone is bragging: 25 vacation days, no limit on sick days, and about 8 national holidays
//Start at 8:00, at the door at 16:35
///When they call me after or before office hours they'd better have a really good reason
 
2017-12-29 12:04:52 PM  

Gary-L: Linux_Yes: thurstonxhowell: El Pachuco: CSB: I was the only blue collar worker in a German language class in San Francisco.  I happened to mention that at my job we got all of .5 day per month to accumulate towards 6 days per year for paid vacation, sick days etc.  The other students - 20-somethings and 30-somethings with white collar jobs - all went, "Whaaaat?"

That really is shocking. I sit at a computer all day and I would turn down twice what you're getting.

enjoy it until its outsourced to India for cheaper labor.

Companies have been learning the hard way that outsourcing IT jobs to India reduces costs for about two quarters.  After that, they spend more fixing mistakes or redesigning everything because of communication issues or the shiat quality of "code" produced.


Sure, but how many big company executives think humanity has any effect on what happens so far in the future? If they even believe in such a thing as "reality after two quarters". For all we know, that's all a big Chinese hoax. They can't hear a word after "reduces costs for about two quarters".
 
kab
2017-12-29 12:05:34 PM  
If you want to improve the work hour scenario in the US, get rid of the idea of the salaried employee, and make time-and-a-half a federal law.   You'll see things change in a hurry.
 
2017-12-29 12:12:42 PM  

AlwaysRightBoy: No thanks, I live here in America where I work over 35 hours a week at my 'part time' retirement job with no benefits because the union is in the pocket of the company.

Coming up on one year so I get 1 week of vacation! Whoopie!


I haven't had anything resembling a vacation in two years.

If you consider this job pretty much never ends, it's more like four years.

/wrists
 
2017-12-29 12:14:58 PM  

kab: If you want to improve the work hour scenario in the US, get rid of the idea of the salaried employee, and make time-and-a-half a federal law.   You'll see things change in a hurry.


I've been salaried for about 20 years now, and I rarely work over 40 hours in a week.  When I do, it's no more than 2 or 3 hours over.  The last thing I want is to have to go back to punching a clock.
 
2017-12-29 01:44:16 PM  

Greek: The German attitude with regards to work is very interesting. When they are at work, their entire body and soul is all about doing their job as quickly and as thoroughly as they can. Then, the moment they punch that clock... You don't even so much as talk to them about what they do for a living. It's actually considered rude to talk to someone in Germany about their job, beyond asking what their profession is and who they work for. There's a saying- "Dienst ist Dienst, und Schnapps ist Schnapps." Literally means, "duty is duty and Schnapps is Schnapps" with an implied "and you don't combine the two."


Yeah, but the Germans have always said work makes them free.
 
2017-12-29 01:54:24 PM  

BEER_ME_in_CT: My Sister and Brother-in-law live in Germany. He works at a large company there and there are already work hour limits and mandatory days off. I want to say its 40 hrs max and 4 weeks but don't quote me on that. Ive been working a 50-60 hour a week day job and freelancing nights and weekends for awhile now. It suuuuuuuucks. This country really sucks right now.


I have cousins who live in Vienna, Austria.   They are required, by law, to take 30 days of vacation...paid.  Even though they were born and raised in Austria, their written English is better than a large percentage of Muricans who were born and raised in Murica.

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not claiming that Western Europe is some kind of paradise, they've got plenty of their own problems, and they've got a large number of atavistic Neanderthal types who would get along with the likes of a Roy Moore just fine.  Fact is Murica really seems to be slipping down the rat hole at an ever increasing pace.  Yes, this country sucks right now.
 
2017-12-29 01:57:38 PM  

AlwaysRightBoy: No thanks, I live here in America where I work over 35 hours a week at my 'part time' retirement job with no benefits because the union is in the pocket of the company.

Coming up on one year so I get 1 week of vacation! Whoopie!


The funny part is that Germans only work 35 hours.  And are biatching about it.

Meanwhile in America, Trump voter Billy Ray Opioid is busy fellating his immediate supervisor so his kid can have health insurance.
 
2017-12-29 01:58:49 PM  

Nick Nostril: Merca's Puritanical work ethic would never allow for this. We are a nation of masochists.


And sadists.
 
2017-12-29 02:01:37 PM  

Rand Paul's Anus is Leaking: Nick Nostril: Merca's Puritanical work ethic would never allow for this. We are a nation of masochists.

And sadists.


"You've got to remember that these are just simple farmers. These are people of the land. The common clay of the new West. You know... morons. "
 
2017-12-29 02:10:26 PM  

Fissile: Rand Paul's Anus is Leaking: Nick Nostril: Merca's Puritanical work ethic would never allow for this. We are a nation of masochists.

And sadists.

"You've got to remember that these are just simple farmers. These are people of the land. The common clay of the new West. You know... morons. "


No joke
 
2017-12-29 02:52:51 PM  
Restaurant workers in the U.S. typically get no paid days off.  You can call in sick or take a vacation, you just don't get paid those days.
 
2017-12-29 03:30:41 PM  
I'll throw my hat in and you all can tell me how much my jobs sucks.

Been here a year, needed a 4 year degree to get it.

.5 days off earned a month. That for anything, its called PTO, if you dont have any PTO, and you need a day off/ emergency / sick its just an unpaid day off.

Health care benefits are extremely expensive and don't cover much / high deductable.

No 401k or pension of any kind.

40 hours a week minimum, no overtime.

Less than 30k a year, only getting "experience" here so I can get a batter job in 2018
 
2017-12-29 03:33:33 PM  

TOPBUN: I'll throw my hat in and you all can tell me how much my jobs sucks.

Been here a year, needed a 4 year degree to get it.

.5 days off earned a month. That for anything, its called PTO, if you dont have any PTO, and you need a day off/ emergency / sick its just an unpaid day off.

Health care benefits are extremely expensive and don't cover much / high deductable.

No 401k or pension of any kind.

40 hours a week minimum, no overtime.

Less than 30k a year, only getting "experience" here so I can get a batter job in 2018


Also: It's a tech job, get to work from home like 2 days a year when the weather is too crappy to make it to the office. No raises of any kind ever, each position makes a certain pay, you want more? Move up, good luck with that though, the turn over rate at the low end is so high they cant promote up because that's taking away from the limited Level 2's we have.
 
2017-12-29 03:36:28 PM  

TOPBUN: Also: It's a tech job, get to work from home like 2 days a year when the weather is too crappy to make it to the office. No raises of any kind ever, each position makes a certain pay, you want more? Move up, good luck with that though, the turn over rate at the low end is so high they cant promote up because that's taking away from the limited Level 2's we have.


Wait a sec...tech job, 30K/year, unreasonable PTO and mention of 'levels'...tech support?  How on earth do they suggest you need a degree of any kind to do tech support?

/I've been there man, you do your trench time and move on
 
2017-12-29 03:40:35 PM  

BumpInTheNight: TOPBUN: Also: It's a tech job, get to work from home like 2 days a year when the weather is too crappy to make it to the office. No raises of any kind ever, each position makes a certain pay, you want more? Move up, good luck with that though, the turn over rate at the low end is so high they cant promote up because that's taking away from the limited Level 2's we have.

Wait a sec...tech job, 30K/year, unreasonable PTO and mention of 'levels'...tech support?  How on earth do they suggest you need a degree of any kind to do tech support?

/I've been there man, you do your trench time and move on


The girl who sits near me has a masters in something related to Software engineering. No one will take her without "experience" and she said most places wanted 4+ years
 
2017-12-29 03:47:51 PM  

TOPBUN: BumpInTheNight: TOPBUN: Also: It's a tech job, get to work from home like 2 days a year when the weather is too crappy to make it to the office. No raises of any kind ever, each position makes a certain pay, you want more? Move up, good luck with that though, the turn over rate at the low end is so high they cant promote up because that's taking away from the limited Level 2's we have.

Wait a sec...tech job, 30K/year, unreasonable PTO and mention of 'levels'...tech support?  How on earth do they suggest you need a degree of any kind to do tech support?

/I've been there man, you do your trench time and move on

The girl who sits near me has a masters in something related to Software engineering. No one will take her without "experience" and she said most places wanted 4+ years


Holy crap, that sounds like an over-saturated market for software developers more then anything, I mean tech support has almost no relevant experience towards that field in the first place.  As a comparison in my neck of the woods (canadian capital) the fresh CS grads are landing solid development jobs right out of the gate.  Not like san-fran level salaries but neither is the cost of living.  At least try to find a QA if you gig and same to her (software, not QA's other tech's phone service).

Btw sorry if I didn't hit the mark of tech support correctly, just you mentioned you're level 2 which in that world the level 1s are the unskilled customer service reps and L3s are typically your seniors.
 
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