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(Digital Trends)   Seagate once again gives porn collectors a reason to rejoice   ( digitaltrends.com) divider line
    More: Spiffy, Hard disk drive, Western Digital, hard drive, Assisted Magnetic Recording, Seagate, helium-filled high capacity, 20TB hard drive, Perpendicular Magnetic Recording  
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5309 clicks; posted to Geek » on 27 Dec 2017 at 5:20 PM (28 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2017-12-27 02:40:35 PM  
Good.  My last drive was getting super sticky.
 
2017-12-27 03:11:08 PM  
I can't imagine filling a disk drive with 20TB of anything.

The entire country's tax returns?
 
2017-12-27 03:11:20 PM  
20tb... a few of those should get us through the A's.
For the Q3 2017 season.
 
2017-12-27 04:16:32 PM  

ecmoRandomNumbers: I can't imagine filling a disk drive with 20TB MB of anything.

The entire country's tax returns?


Me, around 1990
 
2017-12-27 04:39:37 PM  
Are these things going to be server grade and/or offer SAS?

It's fascinating to read about the lengths these engineers/scientists go to to squeeze just a bit more storage out spinning platters. TFA didn't mention, so I'll assume this is for the 3.5 inch form factor drives. Eventually, these guys are going to hit some kind of performance wall in improving storage density of spinning media. Then it's just a matter of time until NAND flash storage gets cheap enough to offer more storage for the same money. Then it's game over. I thought that day would have come by now. I'm really impressed.

A NAND flash based SSD with even more storage, say, 50 or 100 TB in the 2.5 inch form factor would probably be trivial to do today. It would just be... absurdly expensive.

Why is NAND flash storage still so much more expensive per byte? Are wholesale prices actually in line with cost of production, or are the companies that make the SS storage just slow-walking things to maximize profit, something they could get away with because of little or no real competition?
 
2017-12-27 05:10:38 PM  

Riche: Are wholesale prices actually in line with cost of production, or are the companies that make the SS storage just slow-walking things to maximize profit, something they could get away with because of little or no real competition?


You really have to ask this?
 
2017-12-27 05:24:05 PM  

ecmoRandomNumbers: I can't imagine filling a disk drive with 20TB of anything.



2 copies of Xcom 2?
 
2017-12-27 05:24:13 PM  
I remember when 500 MB was good enough.  I now have a 500 GB hard drive and that's not good enough.
 
2017-12-27 05:24:22 PM  
I can't fill the 1TB drive I have.  I'm not trying to archive the internet
 
2017-12-27 05:25:51 PM  

bluorangefyre: I remember when 500 MB was good enough.  I now have a 500 GB hard drive and that's not good enough.


When we got.our 810MB drive I was the envy of all my nerdy friends.

90 megahertz was the shiat too.
 
2017-12-27 05:32:17 PM  
I'd like one for my 16-camera surveillance system. In a few months I'll be upgrading to the Hi-resolution cameras. I currently only get about 12 days of recording on my 500 gig drive.
 
2017-12-27 05:33:44 PM  

AquaTatanka: I can't fill the 1TB drive I have.  I'm not trying to archive the internet


I have more than 4tb of just tv shows, like blakes 7, old doctor who, broadchurch, etc.
I have about a google of pr0n on cd/dvd .
And about 3tb of music.
 
2017-12-27 05:35:48 PM  
Cheaper SSDs, please. I have about as much interest in a hard drive as I do a CD Walkman.
 
2017-12-27 05:39:29 PM  
I can honestly say that there has been not one solitary bit of Internet porn I looked at and said "hey, maybe I should hide that in my computer".  Porn is porn.  It is a constant flow amidst the ether, and if it disappears within the ravages of time, then it goes.  Why cling on to the crusty relics of the past when new innovative pieces just sit at the horizon, waiting to be viewed and analyzed?  The more you are entwined within nostalgia, you may no longer be able to bring yourself to embrace an untouched part of your libido?

Also, there is no reason at all for there to have pictures more than 400 kb.  Seriously, I don't give a crap if it's high definition.  You're still gonna wank to it.
 
2017-12-27 05:42:16 PM  

mr_larry: I'd like one for my 16-camera surveillance system.


That's a lot of nuts cameras.
 
2017-12-27 05:42:55 PM  

rjakobi: Also, there is no reason at all for there to have pictures more than 400 kb. Seriously, I don't give a crap if it's high definition. You're still gonna wank to it.


Hell, I used to wank to vector graphics porn on the C=64...
 
2017-12-27 05:44:15 PM  

Riche: Are these things going to be server grade and/or offer SAS?

It's fascinating to read about the lengths these engineers/scientists go to to squeeze just a bit more storage out spinning platters. TFA didn't mention, so I'll assume this is for the 3.5 inch form factor drives. Eventually, these guys are going to hit some kind of performance wall in improving storage density of spinning media. Then it's just a matter of time until NAND flash storage gets cheap enough to offer more storage for the same money. Then it's game over. I thought that day would have come by now. I'm really impressed.

A NAND flash based SSD with even more storage, say, 50 or 100 TB in the 2.5 inch form factor would probably be trivial to do today. It would just be... absurdly expensive.

Why is NAND flash storage still so much more expensive per byte? Are wholesale prices actually in line with cost of production, or are the companies that make the SS storage just slow-walking things to maximize profit, something they could get away with because of little or no real competition?


A couple years back I'd have never considered an all-flash storage array but these days they're really closing the gap fast for sure.  A couple months ago I was able to buy a couple all-flash storage systems for only about a 30% price difference vs buying a traditional spinning drive setup and the big bonus is the SSD solutions only ate two RU of rack space vs the spinners would have been 6 RU (controller + one tray).  Now those were 'just' SSDs not the NVMe backed new class of them, but still compared to a traditional tray full of 40-60 spinners it was eye-opening to see how close we are to getting rid of the spinning rust.

As per NAND from what I understand there's an on-going global shortage due to demand but yah its still hilariously expensive in the enterprise world.  Fun anecdote I was putting in a new array that featured some ridiculously fast flash as the top-tier, at one point I lifted a box of these 14TB cartridges and realized I was holding multiple millions worth of hardware in my hands, that was fun :)

Personally at home I'm now running all SSD, the samsung evo blow-out on black friday tipped me over the edge, got some sweet 1TB SSDs for like $350 canadian.  For all my linux distro ISOs.  Yes, linux distro ISOs.
 
2017-12-27 05:46:05 PM  

NateAsbestos: 20tb... a few of those should get us through the A's.
For the Q3 2017 season.


"Going through the A's" is my favorite folder in my porn collection...
 
2017-12-27 05:46:34 PM  

Riche: ecmoRandomNumbers: I can't imagine filling a disk drive with 20TB MB of anything.

The entire country's tax returns?

Me, around 1990


1995-ish, when the first 1 GB hard drives were coming out, I said the same thing about a GB of data. I just couldn't fathom how you could fill one of those. Then 4-5 years later, I get my first computer and immediately fill up the 3.2 GB drive it came with.
 
2017-12-27 05:46:41 PM  

rjakobi: I can honestly say that there has been not one solitary bit of Internet porn I looked at and said "hey, maybe I should hide that in my computer".  Porn is porn.  It is a constant flow amidst the ether, and if it disappears within the ravages of time, then it goes.  Why cling on to the crusty relics of the past when new innovative pieces just sit at the horizon, waiting to be viewed and analyzed?  The more you are entwined within nostalgia, you may no longer be able to bring yourself to embrace an untouched part of your libido?

Also, there is no reason at all for there to have pictures more than 400 kb.  Seriously, I don't give a crap if it's high definition.  You're still gonna wank to it.


Some people just hoard stuff. I have a buddy who has like 40TB of torrented movies, and I don't think he ever watches them.
 
2017-12-27 05:48:12 PM  
I'm just happy you don't have to wait for each individual image to render before you can crank one off.
 
2017-12-27 05:48:18 PM  
I love that they named the road 'Disc Drive'.
 
2017-12-27 05:52:43 PM  
You, Heat Assisted Magnetic Recording, I'm real happy for you, and I'mma let you finish

But Perpendicular Magnetic Recording had the funkiest data-storage-technology-based video of all time.

Get Perpendicular
Youtube xb_PyKuI7II


Of all time.
 
2017-12-27 06:13:56 PM  

BumpInTheNight: Riche: Are these things going to be server grade and/or offer SAS?

It's fascinating to read about the lengths these engineers/scientists go to to squeeze just a bit more storage out spinning platters. TFA didn't mention, so I'll assume this is for the 3.5 inch form factor drives. Eventually, these guys are going to hit some kind of performance wall in improving storage density of spinning media. Then it's just a matter of time until NAND flash storage gets cheap enough to offer more storage for the same money. Then it's game over. I thought that day would have come by now. I'm really impressed.

A NAND flash based SSD with even more storage, say, 50 or 100 TB in the 2.5 inch form factor would probably be trivial to do today. It would just be... absurdly expensive.

Why is NAND flash storage still so much more expensive per byte? Are wholesale prices actually in line with cost of production, or are the companies that make the SS storage just slow-walking things to maximize profit, something they could get away with because of little or no real competition?

A couple years back I'd have never considered an all-flash storage array but these days they're really closing the gap fast for sure.  A couple months ago I was able to buy a couple all-flash storage systems for only about a 30% price difference vs buying a traditional spinning drive setup and the big bonus is the SSD solutions only ate two RU of rack space vs the spinners would have been 6 RU (controller + one tray).  Now those were 'just' SSDs not the NVMe backed new class of them, but still compared to a traditional tray full of 40-60 spinners it was eye-opening to see how close we are to getting rid of the spinning rust.

As per NAND from what I understand there's an on-going global shortage due to demand but yah its still hilariously expensive in the enterprise world.  Fun anecdote I was putting in a new array that featured some ridiculously fast flash as the top-tier, at one point I lifted a box of these 14 ...


PCI-e 3.0 SSDs. Accept no substitute.
 
2017-12-27 06:37:42 PM  
"I have the world's largest collection of seashells porn. I keep it on all the beaches internets of the world... perhaps you've seen it."

/srsly, why hoard?
 
2017-12-27 06:40:21 PM  

Julius Pleaseher: PCI-e 3.0 SSDs. Accept no substitute.


PCIE drive are great and all, until you have to shut a system down just to replace a dead one, especially when you're talking larger data volumes of raids etc.  They suite the goal of ultra-responsive local storage for transient data but you know what's creeping up into their niche?  Going balls-out with ramdrives - I've done it a few times already when IO and raw speed trumps redundancy and resilience to external hazards.  You can fit an awful lot of extremely fast RAM into a host these days and compared to what Intel and Co want for their PCIE interface its kind of tempting, alot.
 
2017-12-27 06:41:18 PM  

lake_huron: "I have the world's largest collection of seashells porn. I keep it on all the beaches internets of the world... perhaps you've seen it."

/srsly, why hoard?


What Ajit Pai is doing to the US internet, for starters. ;)
 
2017-12-27 06:50:09 PM  

ecmoRandomNumbers: I can't imagine filling a disk drive with 20TB of anything.

The entire country's tax returns?


I just filled up two 8 TB drives with a backup of my NAS.

Among other things, I use my NAS as a 'Library Computer', storing media libraries (DVDs, Blu-Rays, music CDs, etc.)
 
2017-12-27 06:52:12 PM  
I (just about) remember when 3.5 inch floppies came out. Wow! One point four megabytes! I can get all my stuff on there! And carry it around with me!

Now a single photo taken with my phone would need two of them.
 
2017-12-27 06:56:52 PM  

rjakobi: Why cling on to the crusty relics of the past when new innovative pieces just sit at the horizon, waiting to be viewed and analyzed?


A lot of modern produced porn is garbage made to appeal to retarded bro-dudes and jackasses* and is just a bunch of lame contrived unappealing tripe.

So yeah, some of us like to keep a cache of older stuff (before they've gone through several rounds of sites compressing said videos and throwing yet another logo or other crap on top of them).

// EX. Anything from bangbus, brazzers, or numerous other trashy smut producers. Anything featuring a 'milf' that's actually younger than I am. Anything featuring 'amateurs' that are obviously not amateurs. Anything that goes through the standard porn progression (oral -> coital -> anal).

// used to get my porn from Usenet, and from a f*serve I ran on IRC.

// used to make extra dough on the side as a young teen by selling CDs of the good stuff to non-internet inclined folks.
 
2017-12-27 07:18:08 PM  
"Lol" ~Samsung, 2015
 
2017-12-27 07:20:54 PM  
I set up a NAS for the first time last month, mainly to act as a Plex server. But the flexibility it offers is kind of liberating.
 
kab
2017-12-27 07:38:53 PM  

AquaTatanka: I can't fill the 1TB drive I have.  I'm not trying to archive the internet


Start doing audio or video work, you'll be laughing at that statement pretty quickly :)
 
2017-12-27 07:43:56 PM  
that's aficionado , subby
 
2017-12-27 07:46:57 PM  
I used to have an ST506 interface with a 10MB MFM drive on my Amiga. I discovered that if you formatted it as RLL you could get 20MB on it.

Free tip, Seagate - give it a try!
 
2017-12-27 07:53:28 PM  
Two of these could replace the DAS at one of my clients. Would probably still use 4 or more in RAID.
 
kab
2017-12-27 07:54:42 PM  

Mikey1969: Riche: ecmoRandomNumbers: I can't imagine filling a disk drive with 20TB MB of anything.

The entire country's tax returns?

Me, around 1990

1995-ish, when the first 1 GB hard drives were coming out, I said the same thing about a GB of data. I just couldn't fathom how you could fill one of those. Then 4-5 years later, I get my first computer and immediately fill up the 3.2 GB drive it came with.


Doom 1 - A handful of floppies
Most recent Doom reboot - 70+ gb
 
2017-12-27 08:27:18 PM  
Hmm, this reminds me that my 500g SSD and my old 640g platter drive are getting a bit cramped. Damn you Steam, and damn you ARK with your 100gb+ installation.
 
2017-12-27 08:34:09 PM  

GuardianJDK: Hmm, this reminds me that my 500g SSD and my old 640g platter drive are getting a bit cramped. Damn you Steam, and damn you ARK with your 100gb+ installation.


Holy fark yah eh?  The Aberration DLC tipped me into the 140GB install foot print.  I heard that its essentially twice what it needs to be due to some library their using for the online components, wish they'd deal with that.

Funniest story I know regarding Steam & SSDs is the GTA5 PC release where loads of people did the pre-download and got a rather unfortunate education in how compressed archives need to expand while still existing on their 120GB SSDs.
 
2017-12-27 08:38:11 PM  

BumpInTheNight: Julius Pleaseher: PCI-e 3.0 SSDs. Accept no substitute.

PCIE drive are great and all, until you have to shut a system down just to replace a dead one, especially when you're talking larger data volumes of raids etc.  They suite the goal of ultra-responsive local storage for transient data but you know what's creeping up into their niche?  Going balls-out with ramdrives - I've done it a few times already when IO and raw speed trumps redundancy and resilience to external hazards.  You can fit an awful lot of extremely fast RAM into a host these days and compared to what Intel and Co want for their PCIE interface its kind of tempting, alot.


Regarding true PCIe storage: you can RAID it. Yes, there's a limit to device slots in a server and I'm not disagreeing with your post but I just wanted to highlight that it's not as risky as it seems. I wouldn't do that for servers though: for something fast and reliable I'd go NVMe SSDs in a RAID 10. I haven't actually built any boxes using this technology (I have with PCIe) but it should scream. SuperMicro had just released the NVMe servers last time I was there looking for a chassis. Should be reasonably affordable now.

RAMdisks are an older technology actually but yes, system memory is much faster. Some vendor was trying to sell me an all NVMe flash fabric; NetApp I think. Looked interesting. I think 3D Xpoint and 3D NAND are the future though. SATA is dead, even in the server room, except for cold storage.
 
2017-12-27 08:56:19 PM  
I just urinated the Star Spangled Banner.
 
2017-12-27 09:07:36 PM  

Julius Pleaseher: BumpInTheNight: Julius Pleaseher: PCI-e 3.0 SSDs. Accept no substitute.

PCIE drive are great and all, until you have to shut a system down just to replace a dead one, especially when you're talking larger data volumes of raids etc.  They suite the goal of ultra-responsive local storage for transient data but you know what's creeping up into their niche?  Going balls-out with ramdrives - I've done it a few times already when IO and raw speed trumps redundancy and resilience to external hazards.  You can fit an awful lot of extremely fast RAM into a host these days and compared to what Intel and Co want for their PCIE interface its kind of tempting, alot.

Regarding true PCIe storage: you can RAID it. Yes, there's a limit to device slots in a server and I'm not disagreeing with your post but I just wanted to highlight that it's not as risky as it seems. I wouldn't do that for servers though: for something fast and reliable I'd go NVMe SSDs in a RAID 10. I haven't actually built any boxes using this technology (I have with PCIe) but it should scream. SuperMicro had just released the NVMe servers last time I was there looking for a chassis. Should be reasonably affordable now.

RAMdisks are an older technology actually but yes, system memory is much faster. Some vendor was trying to sell me an all NVMe flash fabric; NetApp I think. Looked interesting. I think 3D Xpoint and 3D NAND are the future though. SATA is dead, even in the server room, except for cold storage.


Indeed you can RAID a PCIE setup but in a failure condition you still have to physically shut the system down and pull the card from the cold chassis which is kind of annoying not to mention the downtime to whatever was running on that setup.  I know, first world data center problems, not saying they're risky just that if you have to deal with a dead one that means scheduling downtime which can be problematic depending on the use case.

"Older tech" ram is always there man, its a single command line away from being in your grasp too, well two commands if you want to mount it for some reason.  Ram is ram and its always the fastest blob of space temporarily work on or store content in a system.

I've played with some large sets of NVMe based SSDs and hehe they really do make a run at the PCIE card's market, IOps were pretty damn similar in raid sets but individually the PCIE cards are best stand alone.  Dell's new x40 line even lets you incorporate the PCIE stuff right into the storage controller's administration pane.  They are indeed going to eat the lunch of the rest of the local flash storage, if for hot-swap capability alone.
 
2017-12-27 09:12:30 PM  

cretinbob: that's aficionado , subby


I don't think that term relates to storage. But I have to admit it is something to consider when Seagate comes out with a 200TB hard drive

/subby
 
2017-12-27 09:12:32 PM  
I have 2 4 terabyte drives, one is a network backup drive, the other is on my Xbox one to extend my units capacity.
 
2017-12-27 09:37:21 PM  

ecmoRandomNumbers: I can't imagine filling a disk drive with 20TB of anything.

The entire country's tax returns?


That drive should be almost enough space to store my Steam games collection.
 
2017-12-27 10:01:34 PM  
BumpInTheNight:
Indeed you can RAID a PCIE setup but in a failure condition you still have to physically shut the system down and pull the card from the cold chassis which is kind of annoying not to mention the downtime to whatever was running on that setup.  I know, first world data center problems, not saying they're risky just that if you have to deal with a dead one that means scheduling downtime which can be problematic depending on the use case.

"Older tech" ram is always there man, its a single command line away from being in your grasp too, well two commands if you want to mount it for some reason.  Ram is ram and its always the fastest blob of space temporarily work on or store content in a system.

I've played with some large sets of NVMe based SSDs and hehe they really do make a run at the PCIE card's market, IOps were pretty damn similar in raid sets but individually the PCIE cards are best stand alone.  Dell's new x40 line even lets you incorporate the PCIE stuff right into the storage controller's administration pane.  They are indeed going to eat the lunch of the rest of the local flash storage, if for hot-swap capability alone.


Yeah, you're right: they're not hot-swappable. Having to change one could potentially be problematic. I have not had one fail on me yet.

RAM disks are risky to me because of the volatility. Modern flash disks, at least the ones I use, don't have to worry losing data in the event of a power loss. I swear I've seen something though where you can cluster machines together and RAID their memory to mitigate that. Technology is just exploding right now; kinda hard to keep up. I just replaced the switches in our server room and the debate was whether or not to jump to 5GBASE-T for the Ethernet stuff. The switches with the technology made it prohibitively expensive, but the next time, I'm sure we'll do it. I remember when the fiber we had wasn't that fast, lol.

Thanks for the mention about the Dell 740xd. I hate Dell customer support with a passion but they make solid servers. They didn't have anything for NVMe or PCIe storage last time I looked. The pricing on that is reasonable. I like SuperMicro and building systems but white boxes can lack some convenient tools.

I'm designing a new system for myself right now and the main debate with myself has been 'what kind of storage' to put inside it. I'm especially getting a kick out of this conversation.
 
2017-12-27 10:40:07 PM  

Julius Pleaseher: Yeah, you're right: they're not hot-swappable. Having to change one could potentially be problematic. I have not had one fail on me yet.

RAM disks are risky to me because of the volatility. Modern flash disks, at least the ones I use, don't have to worry losing data in the event of a power loss. I swear I've seen something though where you can cluster machines together and RAID their memory to mitigate that. Technology is just exploding right now; kinda hard to keep up. I just replaced the switches in our server room and the debate was whether or not to jump to 5GBASE-T for the Ethernet stuff. The switches with the technology made it prohibitively expensive, but the next time, I'm sure we'll do it. I remember when the fiber we had wasn't that fast, lol.

Thanks for the mention about the Dell 740xd. I hate Dell customer support with a passion but they make solid servers. They didn't have anything for NVMe or PCIe storage last time I looked. The pricing on that is reasonable. I like SuperMicro and building systems but white boxes can lack some convenient tools.

I'm designing a new system for myself right now and the main debate with myself has been 'what kind of storage' to put inside it. I'm especially getting a kick out of this conversation.


Man I can dig a good storage conversation, for your own system as in like at home or for a new work thing with corporate money?  I mentioned up thread but at the prices that samsung has been doling out for the Evo series SSDs its pretty easy to end up with all SSD for a home system right now.  For a work-workstation is a very use-case based config of course, one of my fall-backs though is always consider over-doing the ram so that all of your storage regardless of caliber benefits from the write-caching of the OS.  Its actually pretty amazing how much performance is gained just by making sure that a linux system is based on LVM instead of raw partition mounts for instance.
 
2017-12-27 11:02:20 PM  
My gf is a pro photographer and saves about 1TB of files per month currently. Maybe a little more. And she has a triple backup system. The largest drives she's comfortable using is 4TB, for the simple reason that if one fails, the losses are manageable. Losing 20TB of data would be horrible for anybody. The SSDs can't come soon enough.
 
2017-12-27 11:11:47 PM  

lake_huron: "I have the world's largest collection of seashells porn. I keep it on all the beaches internets of the world... perhaps you've seen it."

/srsly, why hoard?


That's yours? Hey, thanks for sharing.
 
2017-12-27 11:20:07 PM  

ecmoRandomNumbers: I can't imagine filling a disk drive with 20TB of anything.

The entire country's tax returns?


Uncompressed images and video take up tons of space.
 
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