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(YouTube)   How Star Wars was saved in the edit. See how a young George Lucas, not yet obstinant enough to reject good advice, let a team of great editors save Star Wars from certain failure   ( youtube.com) divider line
    More: Interesting, Star Wars, Star Wars Episode IV: A New Hope, cinematic classic, video essay, New Hope  
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1563 clicks; posted to Geek » on 12 Dec 2017 at 9:58 AM (31 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



32 Comments     (+0 »)
 
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2017-12-12 08:18:30 AM  
I had a rant about the prequels years ago. My rant is probably a teenager by now. :)

TLDR version of rant: While he may be a visionary, his ego gets in the way of a good story. Even writers need editors.
 
2017-12-12 09:10:53 AM  
I could have told you that in 2009.

http://redlettermedia.com/plinkett/st​a​r-wars/
 
2017-12-12 09:41:06 AM  
Obstinant?
 
2017-12-12 10:29:25 AM  
George Lucas's wife was an incredible editor who eventually won an Oscar and promptly disappeared when she got all of George's money in the divorce.

/on the positive side - without the divorce we wouldn't of gotten Pixar
//didn't bother viewing the video
 
2017-12-12 10:34:19 AM  

gingerjet: George Lucas's wife was an incredible editor who eventually won an Oscar and promptly disappeared when she got all of George's money in the divorce.

/on the positive side - without the divorce we wouldn't of gotten Pixar
//didn't bother viewing the video


img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2017-12-12 10:35:13 AM  
Editors are always the unsung heroes of filmmaking. The best editing award should come after best director at the Oscars.

So let's not pretend that Lucas is the first director to be bailed out by his editors.

People are just obsessed with trying to tear down George Lucas.
 
2017-12-12 10:37:57 AM  

otiosa: I had a rant about the prequels years ago. My rant is probably a teenager by now. :)

TLDR version of rant: While he may be a visionary, his ego gets in the way of a good story. Even writers need editors.


George strikes me as someone who goes "Hey, I have a great idea" every five minutes. But he needs someone looking over his shoulder and telling him which ideas are actually good.

It's like panning for gold. George is an extremely productive streambed that can be mined for some high quality output, but if nobody is sifting through it, the gold gets lost under all the mud.
 
2017-12-12 10:45:13 AM  

Delta1212: otiosa: I had a rant about the prequels years ago. My rant is probably a teenager by now. :)

TLDR version of rant: While he may be a visionary, his ego gets in the way of a good story. Even writers need editors.

George strikes me as someone who goes "Hey, I have a great idea" every five minutes. But he needs someone looking over his shoulder and telling him which ideas are actually good.

It's like panning for gold. George is an extremely productive streambed that can be mined for some high quality output, but if nobody is sifting through it, the gold gets lost under all the mud.


That's a good metaphor for him.

I'd also point out that he despised Star Wars from the mid-80s (if not earlier, since he consolidated many of his VII-IX ideas into VI) to at least the mid-90s (if not later). And even if he started genuinely liking it again - he lost track of his original concepts for future and past trilogies. Once he started working again, he was in a position where absolutely nobody was willing to wash the mud off his gold, or even point out that most of what was under the mud was actually pyrite.
 
2017-12-12 10:49:07 AM  
I learned a lot from this vid, which doesn't happen often for a fan since '77.
 
2017-12-12 11:14:54 AM  

skyotter: I learned a lot from this vid, which doesn't happen often for a fan since '77.


Agreed.  That was fascinating.
 
2017-12-12 11:31:04 AM  

skyotter: I learned a lot from this vid, which doesn't happen often for a fan since '77.


this

helper_monkey: skyotter: I learned a lot from this vid, which doesn't happen often for a fan since '77.

Agreed.  That was fascinating.


and that.  Enjoyed the video a lot.
 
2017-12-12 11:32:08 AM  

Tr0mBoNe: I could have told you that in 2009.

http://redlettermedia.com/plinkett/sta​r-wars/


This is actually a non-snarky and interesting video that provides real insight into how editing can make or break a movie.

RLM is funny and interesting yet doesn't break it down quite like this.
 
2017-12-12 11:36:24 AM  

Tr0mBoNe: I could have told you that in 2009.

http://redlettermedia.com/plinkett/sta​r-wars/


Harlan Ellison was saying much the same thing in 1977.
 
2017-12-12 12:04:23 PM  

otiosa: I had a rant about the prequels years ago. My rant is probably a teenager by now. :)

TLDR version of rant: While he may be a visionary, his ego gets in the way of a good story. Even writers need editors.


"You can write this shiat, George, but you sure as hell can't make me say it." ~ Harrison Ford, 1977.

"I don't like sand. It's coarse and rough and irritating and it gets everywhere." ~ Hayden Christianson trying not to get fired, 2000
 
2017-12-12 12:05:49 PM  

gingerjet: George Lucas's wife was an incredible editor who eventually won an Oscar and promptly disappeared when she got all of George's money in the divorce.

/on the positive side - without the divorce we wouldn't of gotten Pixar
//didn't bother viewing the video


How did Pixar come about from the divorce?
 
2017-12-12 12:20:57 PM  
Really ?...

At Midnight I Will Kill George Lucas With A Shovel
Youtube LDCjIjsZp_Y


/ NSFW language
 
2017-12-12 12:33:23 PM  

phoenix352: gingerjet: George Lucas's wife was an incredible editor who eventually won an Oscar and promptly disappeared when she got all of George's money in the divorce.

/on the positive side - without the divorce we wouldn't of gotten Pixar
//didn't bother viewing the video

How did Pixar come about from the divorce?


Pixar was part of ILM. It was the computer animation department and sold Renderman as a standalone product to animation companies. .When George and Maria divorced, he sold Pixar to Steve Jobs to make some cash because he lost of a ton of it in the divorce. Due to Maria's excellent editorial and management skills, she was a big reason why LucasFilms did so well so she got a lot of George's wealth from the original Star Wars films.

The rest of American Zeotrope related business went bankrupt due to Apocalypse Now and the rest of the project also doing shiat.

The book, Secret History of Star Wars went into great detail over the issue. It's a great read to see where all the threads for the movies and results came and went.
 
2017-12-12 12:57:26 PM  

ZMugg: gingerjet: George Lucas's wife was an incredible editor who eventually won an Oscar and promptly disappeared when she got all of George's money in the divorce.

/on the positive side - without the divorce we wouldn't of gotten Pixar
//didn't bother viewing the video

[img.fark.net image 480x270][View Full Size image _x_]


That triggered my blasters too.
 
2017-12-12 02:20:25 PM  
I have said for a long time that the reality is that George Lucas is a hack who got lucky because he surrounded himself with the right people. Star Wars was a B-movie mess that got elevated because a bunch of people put in overtime to craft something remarkable. I think most of the key people were touched on in the video (Ben Burtt's sound, Rick Baker's makeup, John Williams' score, ILMs visuals, Marcia Lucas' editing and Gary Kurtz to hold the whole thing together.)

When Lucas let other, more talented people play in his world, we got The Empire Strikes Back. When he interjected himself a little back in, we got Ewoks in The Return of the Jedi. When he reclaimed full ownership, we got the schlock that was the prequels.

Star Wars, by all accounts, should have been a disaster. It was overly-long, hamfisted, hackneyed, and incomprehensible. It took the efforts of some of the most talented people in Hollywood to save it. The fact that it became the blockbuster it was was by sure accident.
 
2017-12-12 02:58:53 PM  

thornhill: Editors are always the unsung heroes of filmmaking. The best editing award should come after best director at the Oscars.

So let's not pretend that Lucas is the first director to be bailed out by his editors.

People are just obsessed with trying to tear down George Lucas.


 No, I don't think its anything personal. Its really that he makes a quite compelling example of how much a good editing team makes a difference, as he really does just genuinely suck more than almost any director in the history of ever.
 Given great editors, a great team, and great people to rein him in, he turned out great films.
 Give him his own lead, and you got Howard the Duck. Or the the Star Wars universe, things like that horrifically offensive minstrel show that was Jar Jar and the Wub Wub song.

 /Face it, without very talented and diligent babysitters, he couldn't turn out something watchable if he tried.
 
2017-12-12 03:15:59 PM  

StubePT: When Lucas let other, more talented people play in his world, we got The Empire Strikes Back. When he interjected himself a little back in, we got Ewoks in The Return of the Jedi. When he reclaimed full ownership, we got the schlock that was the prequels  Howard the Duck.


 FTFY
 
2017-12-12 05:13:22 PM  
I just finished reading a book about Warren Zevon (what a mess HE was) and he was friends with Richard Edlund (sp?), who won Oscars for his special effects in Star Wars, Empire and some other movies.

He also invented the Pignose amplifier.  How...random.

/dnrtfa
 
2017-12-12 08:05:49 PM  
Who's the cutie stealing Luke's binoculars who never made it into Star Wars?

img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2017-12-12 08:07:19 PM  

nytmare: Who's the cutie stealing Luke's binoculars who never made it into Star Wars?

[img.fark.net image 850x478][View Full Size image _x_]


Her name is Luka.  She lives on the second floor.
 
2017-12-12 08:32:57 PM  
Sorry, I refuse to believe a movie had great editing when people have been arguing for 40 years about "who shot first."
 
2017-12-12 09:07:09 PM  

nytmare: Who's the cutie stealing Luke's binoculars who never made it into Star Wars?

[img.fark.net image 850x478][View Full Size image _x_]


Koo Stark (her real name even sounds like a Star Wars name). Undistinguished career full of "what would've been" if she hadn't been left on the cutting room floor. Nevertheless, her character Camie Loneozner still got an EU backstory anyway.
 
2017-12-12 09:28:50 PM  

Dadoo: Sorry, I refuse to believe a movie had great editing when people have been arguing for 40 years about "who shot first."


20 years since the Special Editions. And the video here pointed out toward the end that those edits were utter crap.

Like that added scene with big-eyed CGI Jabba outside the Falcon in A New Hope, which merely repeated lines that were already in the movie.
 
2017-12-13 12:03:34 AM  

nytmare: Dadoo: Sorry, I refuse to believe a movie had great editing when people have been arguing for 40 years about "who shot first."

20 years since the Special Editions. And the video here pointed out toward the end that those edits were utter crap.

Like that added scene with big-eyed CGI Jabba outside the Falcon in A New Hope, which merely repeated lines that were already in the movie.


That scene wasn't added. The original Jabba was a human, but didn't make the final cut. For the special edition, they put it back in with a CGIed Jabba.

Jabba Scene Original Cut
Youtube cw1gkNd6Z_8
 
2017-12-13 09:57:25 AM  

Dadoo: nytmare: Dadoo: Sorry, I refuse to believe a movie had great editing when people have been arguing for 40 years about "who shot first."

20 years since the Special Editions. And the video here pointed out toward the end that those edits were utter crap.

Like that added scene with big-eyed CGI Jabba outside the Falcon in A New Hope, which merely repeated lines that were already in the movie.

That scene wasn't added. The original Jabba was a human, but didn't make the final cut. For the special edition, they put it back in with a CGIed Jabba.

[YouTube video: Jabba Scene Original Cut]


"That wasn't added, it was re-added.  Totally different."
 
2017-12-13 10:13:42 AM  

Dadoo: nytmare: Dadoo: Sorry, I refuse to believe a movie had great editing when people have been arguing for 40 years about "who shot first."

20 years since the Special Editions. And the video here pointed out toward the end that those edits were utter crap.

Like that added scene with big-eyed CGI Jabba outside the Falcon in A New Hope, which merely repeated lines that were already in the movie.

That scene wasn't added. The original Jabba was a human, but didn't make the final cut. For the special edition, they put it back in with a CGIed Jabba.

[Youtube-video https://www.youtube.com/embed/cw1gkNd6​Z_8]


Played by a human stand-in. They always intended to composite something else over the actor. We saw the original footage with the human actor way back in the 80s in the "From Star Wars To Jedi" documentary.

img.fark.netView Full Size

When they figured out this wasn't going to happen, that's when the Greedo scene was re-dubbed and re-captioned. That also freed them up to make Jabba a bit less humanoid in Jedi.
 
2017-12-13 01:27:07 PM  

skyotter: Dadoo: nytmare: Dadoo: Sorry, I refuse to believe a movie had great editing when people have been arguing for 40 years about "who shot first."

20 years since the Special Editions. And the video here pointed out toward the end that those edits were utter crap.

Like that added scene with big-eyed CGI Jabba outside the Falcon in A New Hope, which merely repeated lines that were already in the movie.

That scene wasn't added. The original Jabba was a human, but didn't make the final cut. For the special edition, they put it back in with a CGIed Jabba.

[YouTube video: Jabba Scene Original Cut]

"That wasn't added, it was re-added.  Totally different."


I think the contention is that the scene is made up of dialogue literally spliced from other parts of the movie, which is incorrect.
 
2017-12-13 08:50:01 PM  

Jim from Saint Paul: skyotter: Dadoo: nytmare: Dadoo: Sorry, I refuse to believe a movie had great editing when people have been arguing for 40 years about "who shot first."

20 years since the Special Editions. And the video here pointed out toward the end that those edits were utter crap.

Like that added scene with big-eyed CGI Jabba outside the Falcon in A New Hope, which merely repeated lines that were already in the movie.

That scene wasn't added. The original Jabba was a human, but didn't make the final cut. For the special edition, they put it back in with a CGIed Jabba.

[YouTube video: Jabba Scene Original Cut]

"That wasn't added, it was re-added.  Totally different."

I think the contention is that the scene is made up of dialogue literally spliced from other parts of the movie, which is incorrect.


It repeated lines that were already in the movie.  This is an objective fact.

Nobody made the contention that you claimed.  That's all your own strawman.  I'm starting to suspect that you're just looking for an argument, so I'll bow out.  Have fun.  :)

Even I get boarded, sometimes.
 
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