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(USA Today)   Delta will no longer offer free checked bags on flights to Europe. Apparently it was just costing the airline too much to misdirect all that luggage to Africa and Asia   ( usatoday.com) divider line
    More: Fail, Airline, basic economy, basic economy fares, regular economy, basic economy tickets, Northwest Airlines, regular economy tickets, Avianca  
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826 clicks; posted to Business » on 11 Dec 2017 at 3:03 AM (31 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



40 Comments     (+0 »)
 
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2017-12-10 11:45:01 PM  
Transfer to JetBlue.
 
2017-12-11 12:08:32 AM  
Anyone who is serious about flying already has the status to check bags free.

Discouraging the cattle from flying is a good thing.
 
2017-12-11 12:22:50 AM  
The Big Three: ensuing that no one ever flies them internationally since forever.

/any foreign carrier's coach seats are almost always better than American carriers', never mind business/first class.
 
2017-12-11 12:49:55 AM  

AverageAmericanGuy: Anyone who is serious about flying already has the status to check bags free.

Discouraging the cattle from flying is a good thing.


Fark you.
Business people =/= travelers, vacationers.
 
2017-12-11 01:04:28 AM  

themindiswatching: The Big Three: ensuing that no one ever flies them internationally since forever.

/any foreign carrier's coach seats are almost always better than American carriers', never mind business/first class.


I have to use a domestic airline just to get to a decent foreign airline to get me to South America. Lan Chile is wonderful. But I have to endure AA to either LAX, Dallas, or Miami first.
 
2017-12-11 01:44:33 AM  
Why don't they just get to it already by charging by the pound, I mean for the flyer and their baggage. Then fire all the stewards and install vending machines in the areas they used for food prep and storage.

They obviously want to turn it into a flying greyhound so just get on with it already.
 
2017-12-11 01:46:04 AM  
img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2017-12-11 03:20:32 AM  

themindiswatching: The Big Three: ensuing that no one ever flies them internationally since forever.

/any foreign carrier's coach seats are almost always better than American carriers', never mind business/first class.


Main Cabin Extra.
 
2017-12-11 04:02:02 AM  
I wonder how ocean liners and trains charged for luggage in the era before the airliners. Steamer trunks might weigh several hundred pounds, would that have been included in the passage costs?
 
2017-12-11 04:53:44 AM  
It's not "free", it's "included in the ticket price" and it's been that way for decades.

Why not advertise a price that includes 1 x 20-kilo item of checked baggage, but offer a discount for no checked baggage, or a discount/frequent flyer credit for every kilo under 20? Each kilogram loaded costs fuel, so less kilos = less fuel costs.
 
2017-12-11 05:05:42 AM  

themindiswatching: The Big Three: ensuing that no one ever flies them internationally since forever.

/any foreign carrier's coach seats are almost always better than American carriers', never mind business/first class.


I like the service and features of Air New Zealand, but the seats are really narrow.
 
2017-12-11 05:44:34 AM  
They'll get rid of it by autumn.

The fee, I mean.
 
2017-12-11 05:46:31 AM  
There's a reason you have airline filters when using Kayak or Google flights. You uncheck the carriers who suck or who have shiatty hubs.

I'm looking at you, Air France
 
2017-12-11 07:21:54 AM  

ol' gormsby: It's not "free", it's "included in the ticket price" and it's been that way for decades.

Why not advertise a price that includes 1 x 20-kilo item of checked baggage, but offer a discount for no checked baggage, or a discount/frequent flyer credit for every kilo under 20? Each kilogram loaded costs fuel, so less kilos = less fuel costs.


I think the idea, though, is they want to continue charging the same average ticket price and then charge additional for a checked bag. Much like our telecoms are going to charge the same average monthly fee and then charge extra to remove their new throttling service for your favorite websites and games (if they're even included in any of their non-throttling packages!).
 
2017-12-11 07:29:03 AM  

Alien Robot: themindiswatching: The Big Three: ensuing that no one ever flies them internationally since forever.

/any foreign carrier's coach seats are almost always better than American carriers', never mind business/first class.

Main Cabin Extra.


False. 100% false.

United's business class is 100% lie-flat. There are plenty of carriers who have angle flat and even (GASP) recliner seats across the pond...now in terms of Service..I've had better service on a angle-flat business seat but I couldn't sleep for shiat versus sleeping no problem on a 4 hour flight (LAX-EWR) in this:

img.fark.netView Full Size


2-4-2 "Business" class, but it is 100% lie-flat and cocoon like.

Also, Troll headline is Troll.

This is about Economy MINUS tickets. This is for people who want the bare-bones ticket price, and Delta (like United with Basic Economy) is responding.

/STFU you kettles who don't know shiat
//Posted from the last row (no recline) of a United flight
///Last minute flight
 
2017-12-11 09:01:07 AM  

ColonelCathcart: Alien Robot: themindiswatching: The Big Three: ensuing that no one ever flies them internationally since forever.

/any foreign carrier's coach seats are almost always better than American carriers', never mind business/first class.

Main Cabin Extra.

False. 100% false.

United's business class is 100% lie-flat. There are plenty of carriers who have angle flat and even (GASP) recliner seats across the pond...now in terms of Service..I've had better service on a angle-flat business seat but I couldn't sleep for shiat versus sleeping no problem on a 4 hour flight (LAX-EWR) in this:

[img.fark.net image 850x566][View Full Size image _x_]


that looks terrible.
 
2017-12-11 09:10:55 AM  
Perfect for all those people who travel to Europe for just one night with no luggage. Honestly, it wasn't fair to include the price of a checked bag in the ticket for this, the largest demographic of trans-atlantic flyers.
 
2017-12-11 09:17:00 AM  
It's not all the add-ons that bother me so much as how long it takes to figure out the actual cost of a ticket.  I accept the fact that the advertised price is just a come-on much like many other advertised prices for other goods and services.  Of course, the Trump Administration wants to gut the Obama regulation requiring airlines to fully disclose their fees when advertising prices.
 
2017-12-11 10:11:57 AM  

themindiswatching: The Big Three: ensuing that no one ever flies them internationally since forever.

/any foreign carrier's coach seats are almost always better than American carriers', never mind business/first class.


How much do you fly internationally?
Many international airlines offer handbag only fares across the atlantic already. 

The coach seats of the big 3 are pretty standard compared to other airlines. There are a few airlines that are a step up in terms of service but compared to LH/AF/KLM/AZ/BA they are pretty similar. Some aircraft/seat combinations are better than others. 

The big 3 are pretty much middle of the pack on international business, some products are close to top tier (ignoring the ME3) like the A350 suites from delta. But neither American nor United is really comparable to the real international first products (and given they are basically the same price I have no idea who is paying for united first over LH first)
 
2017-12-11 10:44:16 AM  

themindiswatching: The Big Three: ensuing that no one ever flies them internationally since forever.

/any foreign carrier's coach seats are almost always better than American carriers', never mind business/first class.


I agree and I'm a former domestic airline employee. My friends get pretty pissed when I tell them I'd rather fly any foreign carrier over the water.
 
2017-12-11 10:52:44 AM  

ColonelCathcart: Alien Robot: themindiswatching: The Big Three: ensuing that no one ever flies them internationally since forever.

/any foreign carrier's coach seats are almost always better than American carriers', never mind business/first class.

Main Cabin Extra.

False. 100% false.

United's business class is 100% lie-flat. There are plenty of carriers who have angle flat and even (GASP) recliner seats across the pond...now in terms of Service..I've had better service on a angle-flat business seat but I couldn't sleep for shiat versus sleeping no problem on a 4 hour flight (LAX-EWR) in this:

[img.fark.net image 850x566]

2-4-2 "Business" class, but it is 100% lie-flat and cocoon like.

Also, Troll headline is Troll.

This is about Economy MINUS tickets. This is for people who want the bare-bones ticket price, and Delta (like United with Basic Economy) is responding.

/STFU you kettles who don't know shiat
//Posted from the last row (no recline) of a United flight
///Last minute flight


With Norwegian offering $99 flights across the Pond, Delta is going to have to dramatically lower those coach ticket prices.
 
2017-12-11 10:58:07 AM  

You're the jerk... jerk: How much do you fly internationally?
Many international airlines offer handbag only fares across the atlantic already.


He doesn't.  Economy coach in any airline is shiat.  No matter the airline.

/the only real difference is the quality of the food
 
2017-12-11 11:06:12 AM  

gingerjet: You're the jerk... jerk: How much do you fly internationally?
Many international airlines offer handbag only fares across the atlantic already.

He doesn't.  Economy coach in any airline is shiat.  No matter the airline.

/the only real difference is the quality of the food


Airplane matters a bit. A new 787 vs an old 757 is going to be a shift even on the same airline. But you are right. 

The truth is today with the video screens, tablets, and xanex you can survive coach on anyone.
 
2017-12-11 11:07:00 AM  
img.fark.netView Full Size

Worth paying for since they're so easy to recognize on the baggage turnstile thingy.
 
2017-12-11 11:12:52 AM  

ol' gormsby: It's not "free", it's "included in the ticket price" and it's been that way for decades.

Why not advertise a price that includes 1 x 20-kilo item of checked baggage, but offer a discount for no checked baggage, or a discount/frequent flyer credit for every kilo under 20? Each kilogram loaded costs fuel, so less kilos = less fuel costs.


Because they'll show up at the bottom of the results on Kayak or Expedia or whatever. People that don't know any better -- and, critically, business travellers with corporate "lowest fare" policy -- will choose the $650 bare-bones fare over the $700 all-inclusive fare.

It shouldn't be that way, but like gasoline prices, consumers are heavily driven by price when buying plane tickets.
 
2017-12-11 11:20:30 AM  
So this just means that everyone will bring their bags to the gate as carry-ons, at which point the attendant will say "we have no more room in the overhead bins, so we'll gate check your bags for free," resulting in additional delay at the gate rather than out at the service desk where they're better equipped to handle checked bags.
 
2017-12-11 11:49:38 AM  

WordsnCollision: [img.fark.net image 236x283][View Full Size image _x_]
Worth paying for since they're so easy to recognize on the baggage turnstile thingy.


img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2017-12-11 01:02:49 PM  

You're the jerk... jerk: Airplane matters a bit. A new 787 vs an old 757 is going to be a shift even on the same airline. But you are right. 

The truth is today with the video screens, tablets, and xanex you can survive coach on anyone.


Leg room can still be a real problem for anyone over about 5'11" even if you have booze and movies. I'm 6' and regular coach seats are not comfortable. I try to get exit rows / premium economy when I can and that makes a huge difference though.
 
2017-12-11 01:16:00 PM  

dukeblue219: You're the jerk... jerk: Airplane matters a bit. A new 787 vs an old 757 is going to be a shift even on the same airline. But you are right. 

The truth is today with the video screens, tablets, and xanex you can survive coach on anyone.

Leg room can still be a real problem for anyone over about 5'11" even if you have booze and movies. I'm 6' and regular coach seats are not comfortable. I try to get exit rows / premium economy when I can and that makes a huge difference though.


I am 6'3" and probably fly a lot more than you... I know the pains. 
Airlines have trouble selling Economy+ and most of it is given away to people with status. People really just want to save a few bucks.
 
2017-12-11 01:28:04 PM  

wildcardjack: I wonder how ocean liners and trains charged for luggage in the era before the airliners. Steamer trunks might weigh several hundred pounds, would that have been included in the passage costs?


In First Class I'm sure it was either included in the exorbitant ticket price, or you had enough money that you didn't care about baggage fees.

Steerage was limited to what you could carry on yourself, and those people didn't own much anyway. Certainly not enough to pack into a steamer trunk.
 
2017-12-11 01:32:37 PM  

ol' gormsby: Why not advertise a price that includes 1 x 20-kilo item of checked baggage, but offer a discount for no checked baggage, or a discount/frequent flyer credit for every kilo under 20? Each kilogram loaded costs fuel, so less kilos = less fuel costs.


I believe ticket price regulations require the airlines to state a price that is all-inclusive (taxes, fees, etc.). They cannot have a "base ticket price" that then has a fuel surcharge, or landing fee, or something else that gets added at the last minute. The stated price up front is to be the final price.

However, baggage fees are excluded from this so I don't know how that would work. It's playing semantics to say a $25 bag fee, or you can get a ticket that is $25 more in the base price and then subtract that $25 if you don't check a bag. Same price no matter what. I'm betting to have a ticket price that offers a no-baggage discount would be confusing, and something the regulators would oppose. Though it's not that much more confusing than these cheap economy fares that have fine print telling people no baggage...
 
2017-12-11 04:13:04 PM  

You're the jerk... jerk: Airlines have trouble selling Economy+ and most of it is given away to people with status. People really just want to save a few bucks.


CSB but I just literally booked an award ticket on DL where Comfort+ was fewer miles than regular economy. Also, if you're in the air a few hours and like to drink you can make up the cost difference in beers and have more space for "free." :)
 
2017-12-11 06:59:40 PM  

mrmopar5287: ol' gormsby: Why not advertise a price that includes 1 x 20-kilo item of checked baggage, but offer a discount for no checked baggage, or a discount/frequent flyer credit for every kilo under 20? Each kilogram loaded costs fuel, so less kilos = less fuel costs.

I believe ticket price regulations require the airlines to state a price that is all-inclusive (taxes, fees, etc.). They cannot have a "base ticket price" that then has a fuel surcharge, or landing fee, or something else that gets added at the last minute. The stated price up front is to be the final price.

However, baggage fees are excluded from this so I don't know how that would work. It's playing semantics to say a $25 bag fee, or you can get a ticket that is $25 more in the base price and then subtract that $25 if you don't check a bag. Same price no matter what. I'm betting to have a ticket price that offers a no-baggage discount would be confusing, and something the regulators would oppose. Though it's not that much more confusing than these cheap economy fares that have fine print telling people no baggage...


The difference is that checking baggage is optional.  If people are travelling between semi-permanent homes or for very short trips they can get by just fine with hand luggage.  Supposedly these people will save money under the new pricing schedule.  In practice, I'm sure they'll save a little and everyone else will pay more.  Netting Delta a few extra bucks.
 
2017-12-11 07:23:55 PM  
I usually try to avoid flying American airlines for international flights to begin with. Especially since Continental was merged out of existence.

This just gives me an extra incentive to keep doing that.
 
2017-12-11 10:38:54 PM  

ColonelCathcart: Alien Robot: themindiswatching: The Big Three: ensuing that no one ever flies them internationally since forever.

/any foreign carrier's coach seats are almost always better than American carriers', never mind business/first class.

Main Cabin Extra.

False. 100% false.

United's business class is 100% lie-flat. There are plenty of carriers who have angle flat and even (GASP) recliner seats across the pond...now in terms of Service..I've had better service on a angle-flat business seat but I couldn't sleep for shiat versus sleeping no problem on a 4 hour flight (LAX-EWR) in this:

[img.fark.net image 850x566][View Full Size image _x_]

2-4-2 "Business" class, but it is 100% lie-flat and cocoon like.

Also, Troll headline is Troll.

This is about Economy MINUS tickets. This is for people who want the bare-bones ticket price, and Delta (like United with Basic Economy) is responding.

/STFU you kettles who don't know shiat
//Posted from the last row (no recline) of a United flight
///Last minute flight


So how does it go,...Business....First Class....Livestock, or First Class....Business...Livestock, and what's the big difference?
/flew once, out west 35+ years ago
 
2017-12-11 11:30:20 PM  
I recoil in horror when I recall the days of regulated airlines - of low fares, jet service to small markets, roomy seats, edible food.  It was hell.  We should all bow down and thank Republicans for deregulating flying into the expensive, disrespectful, inhuman nightmare we all know and love today.
 
2017-12-12 01:14:38 AM  

Tinderlicious: I recoil in horror when I recall the days of regulated airlines - of low fares, jet service to small markets, roomy seats, edible food.  It was hell.  We should all bow down and thank Republicans for deregulating flying into the expensive, disrespectful, inhuman nightmare we all know and love today.


If you account for inflation, or simply do the math on percentage of average income, the ticket prices then were much higher than today.

Norwegian shouldn't be able to fly into the US anyway, but that's another matter entirely.   I know I'm not keen on flying an airline where every aspect of the operation is based on whichever country has the most lax regulations for that area.
 
2017-12-12 09:48:00 AM  

weirdneighbour: ColonelCathcart: Alien Robot: themindiswatching: The Big Three: ensuing that no one ever flies them internationally since forever.

/any foreign carrier's coach seats are almost always better than American carriers', never mind business/first class.

Main Cabin Extra.

False. 100% false.

United's business class is 100% lie-flat. There are plenty of carriers who have angle flat and even (GASP) recliner seats across the pond...now in terms of Service..I've had better service on a angle-flat business seat but I couldn't sleep for shiat versus sleeping no problem on a 4 hour flight (LAX-EWR) in this:

[img.fark.net image 850x566][View Full Size image _x_]

2-4-2 "Business" class, but it is 100% lie-flat and cocoon like.

Also, Troll headline is Troll.

This is about Economy MINUS tickets. This is for people who want the bare-bones ticket price, and Delta (like United with Basic Economy) is responding.

/STFU you kettles who don't know shiat
//Posted from the last row (no recline) of a United flight
///Last minute flight

So how does it go,...Business....First Class....Livestock, or First Class....Business...Livestock, and what's the big difference?
/flew once, out west 35+ years ago


Foods a lot nicer. Booze is free and nice (nicer on international flights and foreign carriers).

Biggest difference is lie flat seats. If people expect me to fly and work the next day, you're putting me up front.

Sleeping in coach means I'm useless for at least a day while I recuperate.

/upgrade vouchers for vacation, I'll never personally pay for Business class (3-5x discounted coach tickets, sometimes *a lot* more).
 
2017-12-12 09:49:17 AM  

Baradium: Norwegian shouldn't be able to fly into the US anyway


So how should Norwegian citizens fly to the US? They shouldn't use their national carrier?
 
2017-12-12 12:50:30 PM  

Cajnik: Baradium: Norwegian shouldn't be able to fly into the US anyway

So how should Norwegian citizens fly to the US? They shouldn't use their national carrier?


There are two different Norwegians.  You have Norwegian out of Norway and then you have the low cost Norwegian Air International (which is the one referenced here)  which is not even a Norwegian airline.  It's headquartered in Ireland and uses various countries for each aspect of its operation based on wherever the most lax laws are.
 
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