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(CBS Sports)   Cleveland Browns crunch the numbers and fire GM Sashi Brown. Surely, this will turn things around   ( cbssports.com) divider line
    More: Facepalm, Browns, National Football League, Sports NFL Insider, GM/executive VP Sashi, Cleveland Browns, Jason La Canfora, owner Jimmy Haslam, extra first-round pick  
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483 clicks; posted to Sports » on 07 Dec 2017 at 12:20 PM (32 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2017-12-07 12:19:02 PM  
Hey, you never know.
 
2017-12-07 12:35:15 PM  
First of all, the Haslams must die.  Or sell the team, whatever.
 
2017-12-07 12:38:30 PM  
I have an unpopular solution to the Cleveland problem.

Tell Jimmy Haslam he has to rename the team and move them to San Diego.  Then in a few years, we can try the Browns experiment again.

/They removed the Browns, but left the Cleveland!
 
2017-12-07 12:42:13 PM  
Maybe not Sashi due to his inability to see value at a position, but what are the chances that another owner tries the moneyball route soon after seeing the Browns' impressive results?
 
2017-12-07 12:47:53 PM  
The best 1-27 team ever, they were always a legit QB away from winning like 10 games during that stretch.
 
2017-12-07 12:51:13 PM  
Something...something...deck chairs...something...Titanic.
 
2017-12-07 12:53:29 PM  

you need help: Maybe not Sashi due to his inability to see value at a position, but what are the chances that another owner tries the moneyball route soon after seeing the Browns' impressive results?


You're being sarcastic, but the results ARE impressive.    They have the most draft picks in history, and the most cap space of any team in history.   I mean,... this was the goal.  Precisely. 

Their 2016 and 2017 record are entirely moot points.

Sashi steered them to this point, and i'm thankful, but i don't have much trust in him using those picks and cap sape wisely, so i'm ok with him being gone, too.
 
2017-12-07 01:00:41 PM  
Trust the process
 
2017-12-07 01:07:13 PM  

AdamK: The best 1-27 team ever, they were always a legit QB away from winning like 10 games during that stretch.


I haven't looked, but i'd have no problem believing they lost at least 10 games by a field goal or less.
 
2017-12-07 01:09:59 PM  

T.rex: but the results ARE impressive. They have the most draft picks in history,


True, but they have a history of absolute unbridled ineptitude when using those draft picks.
 
2017-12-07 01:12:24 PM  
We need to drop the Haslams and the Lerners, with all their shiatty legacy.
 
2017-12-07 01:16:23 PM  
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2017-12-07 01:17:44 PM  

gunsmack: T.rex: but the results ARE impressive. They have the most draft picks in history,

True, but they have a history of absolute unbridled ineptitude when using those draft picks.


That is true, but the person responsible for that function is the person they just fired.   
They are half-way done.  They cleared out the roster, and now they have to rebuild it.   This is the harder part.   They absolutely needs a personell genius to come in.
 
2017-12-07 01:22:57 PM  

T.rex: AdamK: The best 1-27 team ever, they were always a legit QB away from winning like 10 games during that stretch.

I haven't looked, but i'd have no problem believing they lost at least 10 games by a field goal or less.


7 since last year, not including pre-season.
 
2017-12-07 01:54:58 PM  

Atomic Jonb: T.rex: AdamK: The best 1-27 team ever, they were always a legit QB away from winning like 10 games during that stretch.

I haven't looked, but i'd have no problem believing they lost at least 10 games by a field goal or less.

7 since last year, not including pre-season.


My advanced metrics tell me that if they were able to turn one opponent TD into a FG, or one of their own FGs into a TD, this would be, on average, a net gain over over 3 points.  Based on your analysis, that's 7 more wins right there.

If you could so BOTH of those things, look out!

Call me Cleveland, I have the serious statisticals you need to succeed.
 
2017-12-07 02:18:33 PM  
It looks like Hue won the power struggle, but he's probably on a one-season leash. If he doesn't get results quickly, the new GM will find a new coach.
 
2017-12-07 02:19:28 PM  

T.rex: gunsmack: T.rex: but the results ARE impressive. They have the most draft picks in history,

True, but they have a history of absolute unbridled ineptitude when using those draft picks.

That is true, but the person responsible for that function is the person they just fired.   
They are half-way done.  They cleared out the roster, and now they have to rebuild it.   This is the harder part.   They absolutely needs a personell genius to come in.


The guy who was 'smart' enough to empty the roster (except for Thomas and Gordon) and open up loads of cap space, and essentially rebuild the franchise from ground 0, isn't smart enough to complete the job? Sounds more like they are trying to maximize the return on investment while feeding the Browns fans a load of crap.

What happens after the replacement fails to deliver? More 'next year' excuses while they bilk you for more money.
 
2017-12-07 02:27:50 PM  
To me, one of the great puzzlements in sports is how the Browns have consistently and almost continually sucked since they returned to the league in 1999.  This is a league in which teams routinely go from last place to first place from one season to the next -- look at the Rams this year, for example.  But the Browns have had 2 winning records and 1 very brief playoff appearance in all that time.  Normally, sustained suckage is a sign of terrible ownership, but they have changed owners a couple of times since coming back.  So what's going on?  How does a team just keep making bad choice after bad choice, even when the people who make those bad choices keep getting replaced?
 
2017-12-07 02:30:16 PM  
The most joy I get out of the NFL is seeing if the Browns still are winless this year.

Seriously, they're the best team to watch for highlights. They never disappoint in being an utter shiatshow.
 
2017-12-07 02:34:48 PM  

jake_lex: To me, one of the great puzzlements in sports is how the Browns have consistently and almost continually sucked since they returned to the league in 1999.  This is a league in which teams routinely go from last place to first place from one season to the next -- look at the Rams this year, for example.  But the Browns have had 2 winning records and 1 very brief playoff appearance in all that time.  Normally, sustained suckage is a sign of terrible ownership, but they have changed owners a couple of times since coming back.  So what's going on?  How does a team just keep making bad choice after bad choice, even when the people who make those bad choices keep getting replaced?


Any body have a quick count on the number of GMs and Head Coaches they have burned through under two separate owners with the results only getting worse?
 
2017-12-07 02:52:44 PM  

dywed88: jake_lex: To me, one of the great puzzlements in sports is how the Browns have consistently and almost continually sucked since they returned to the league in 1999.  This is a league in which teams routinely go from last place to first place from one season to the next -- look at the Rams this year, for example.  But the Browns have had 2 winning records and 1 very brief playoff appearance in all that time.  Normally, sustained suckage is a sign of terrible ownership, but they have changed owners a couple of times since coming back.  So what's going on?  How does a team just keep making bad choice after bad choice, even when the people who make those bad choices keep getting replaced?

Any body have a quick count on the number of GMs and Head Coaches they have burned through under two separate owners with the results only getting worse?


Here's the list of head coaches:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of​_​Cleveland_Browns_head_coaches

That's 9 since 1999, and 4 since 2012 when Haslem bought the team.
 
2017-12-07 03:17:19 PM  

iron_city_ap: T.rex: gunsmack: T.rex: but the results ARE impressive. They have the most draft picks in history,

True, but they have a history of absolute unbridled ineptitude when using those draft picks.

That is true, but the person responsible for that function is the person they just fired.
They are half-way done.  They cleared out the roster, and now they have to rebuild it.   This is the harder part.   They absolutely needs a personell genius to come in.

The guy who was 'smart' enough to empty the roster (except for Thomas and Gordon) and open up loads of cap space, and essentially rebuild the franchise from ground 0, isn't smart enough to complete the job? Sounds more like they are trying to maximize the return on investment while feeding the Browns fans a load of crap.

What happens after the replacement fails to deliver? More 'next year' excuses while they bilk you for more money.


i think Moneyball Depodesta is more responsible for the state of team's picks and cap space than Sashi, and Sashi is the guy who reportedly bungled the 11th hour AJ McCarron trade, and also made a classless remark about Wentz not being a top 20 guy, which came back and bit him in the butt, big time.

In the end, there HAD to be a scape-goat for 1-27, and i can't really point at Hue Jackson.    He coaches, and calls plays.... The team hasn't been failing because of what Hue does or does not do.
 
2017-12-07 03:18:22 PM  

T.rex: gunsmack: T.rex: but the results ARE impressive. They have the most draft picks in history,

True, but they have a history of absolute unbridled ineptitude when using those draft picks.

That is true, but the person responsible for that function is the person they just fired.   
They are half-way done.  They cleared out the roster, and now they have to rebuild it.   This is the harder part.   They absolutely needs a personell genius to come in.


They fired the scouting department? When did that happen?
 
2017-12-07 03:26:29 PM  

T.rex: you need help: Maybe not Sashi due to his inability to see value at a position, but what are the chances that another owner tries the moneyball route soon after seeing the Browns' impressive results?

You're being sarcastic, but the results ARE impressive.    They have the most draft picks in history, and the most cap space of any team in history.   I mean,... this was the goal.  Precisely. 

Their 2016 and 2017 record are entirely moot points.

Sashi steered them to this point, and i'm thankful, but i don't have much trust in him using those picks and cap sape wisely, so i'm ok with him being gone, too.


It was all good until he left the likes of Dak, Carson, Jared, DeShaun on the table.  Now, you can excuse Jared and Carson (1st rd.) but Watson and Prescott (3rd rd.)?
 
2017-12-07 03:45:26 PM  
I am far from an expert on the Browns, but the impression I had was that the big problem was coaching and lacking a franchise QB. This may help the second problem (I don't know how good a GM this guy was outside of accumulating draft picks) but I don't see how it's going to help with the first. However, I do know that turning over the head coach every year or two is not a formula for success.
 
2017-12-07 03:49:41 PM  

jake_lex: To me, one of the great puzzlements in sports is how the Browns have consistently and almost continually sucked since they returned to the league in 1999.  This is a league in which teams routinely go from last place to first place from one season to the next -- look at the Rams this year, for example.  But the Browns have had 2 winning records and 1 very brief playoff appearance in all that time.  Normally, sustained suckage is a sign of terrible ownership, but they have changed owners a couple of times since coming back.  So what's going on?  How does a team just keep making bad choice after bad choice, even when the people who make those bad choices keep getting replaced?


karma for Tagliabue screwing over Baltimore?
 
2017-12-07 03:56:54 PM  
Someone had this up on Twitter:
Belichik could go 0-16 for 44 straight seasons and have a better career record than Hue Jackson currently does.
 
2017-12-07 04:01:08 PM  

MagicChicken: The most joy I get out of the NFL is seeing if the Browns still are winless this year.

Seriously, they're the best team to watch for highlights. They never disappoint in being an utter shiatshow.


They had a bad fumble and interception against the chargers last week but, that played okay.
 
2017-12-07 04:17:13 PM  

jake_lex: To me, one of the great puzzlements in sports is how the Browns have consistently and almost continually sucked since they returned to the league in 1999.  This is a league in which teams routinely go from last place to first place from one season to the next -- look at the Rams this year, for example.  But the Browns have had 2 winning records and 1 very brief playoff appearance in all that time.  Normally, sustained suckage is a sign of terrible ownership, but they have changed owners a couple of times since coming back.  So what's going on?  How does a team just keep making bad choice after bad choice, even when the people who make those bad choices keep getting replaced?


Because these organizations are determined by their culture, you can get a new owner and the culture stays the same, not to mention Haslam is a hack.
 
2017-12-07 04:36:40 PM  

Duke of Madness Motors: I am far from an expert on the Browns, but the impression I had was that the big problem was coaching and lacking a franchise QB. This may help the second problem (I don't know how good a GM this guy was outside of accumulating draft picks) but I don't see how it's going to help with the first. However, I do know that turning over the head coach every year or two is not a formula for success.


WHile if they got someone like Rogers they could probably put out decent records and make brief playoff appearances, a lack of a franchise QB doesn't stop you from being successful.

It isn't that long since the armless ghost of Peyton Manning and Brock Osweiler won a Super Bowl.

That is no excuse for not attaining a level of mediocrity. Hell they can't even get past "historically bad"
 
2017-12-07 04:39:51 PM  

meanmutton: T.rex: gunsmack: T.rex: but the results ARE impressive. They have the most draft picks in history,

True, but they have a history of absolute unbridled ineptitude when using those draft picks.

That is true, but the person responsible for that function is the person they just fired.
They are half-way done.  They cleared out the roster, and now they have to rebuild it.   This is the harder part.   They absolutely needs a personell genius to come in.

They fired the scouting department? When did that happen?


They fired the guy tangentially responsible for the last two years of suck. The same brain trust that hired and fired him will pick a winner

img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2017-12-07 04:56:23 PM  
Browns Abysmal 2015 Season Review
Youtube 1Rz9FKh8ZjM
 
2017-12-07 04:59:06 PM  
You aren't a REAL Browns fan until you've attempted to hang yourself out of pure despair and misery.

Sh*t, I'm a Bears fan and I don't know how you guys do it. Packers fans are the only people who tell us we suck. For you guys, it's everybody.
 
2017-12-07 05:01:10 PM  

SkylineRecords: You aren't a REAL Browns fan until you've attempted to hang yourself out of pure despair and misery.

Sh*t, I'm a Bears fan and I don't know how you guys do it. Packers fans are the only people who tell us we suck. For you guys, it's everybody.


Bears fans occcasionally encounter this thing called "hope"

Without hope things are much more bearable.

/Bills fan
 
2017-12-07 05:18:20 PM  
Historically, the consistently good teams develop a system and stick with it. A new GM or a new coach will be a guy who buys into that system.

The Browns are the kids that restart a season in Madden after they realize they won't go 16-0
 
2017-12-07 05:44:04 PM  
I love rooting for the Browns...I don't have to know anything about them because no one else does either, other that they are terrible...and that is all the football i wanna talk...other than fantasy football.  I never have to watch a game either, because it doesn't matter.  There is literally no emotional investment here.

Go Browns!
 
2017-12-07 06:08:05 PM  
I'm just saying they could do a lot better in the Great Lakes Continental Spring League of American Football.
 
2017-12-07 06:10:40 PM  
Could Sashi end up being the next Hinkie?
 
2017-12-07 06:17:35 PM  

MrPleasant: [Youtube 1Rz9FKh8ZjM image 480x270][Youtube-video https://www.youtube.com/embed/1Rz9FKh8​ZjM]


That's the funniest and saddest thing I've seen in a long time...holy shiat.
 
2017-12-07 06:34:40 PM  
FYI, you can get LOWER deck seats for Browns-Ravens for 6 bucks
 
2017-12-07 06:46:37 PM  
At least they're not Detroit.
 
2017-12-07 06:53:01 PM  

TheManofPA: FYI, you can get LOWER deck seats for Browns-Ravens for 6 bucks


Toilet paper costs more than what tickets for Browns @ Bears on Christmas Eve are getting.

/I'm convinced the Browns will win that one
//Bears fan
 
2017-12-07 07:30:16 PM  

King Something: At least they're not Detroit.


I'd imagine most Browns fans wished their team was in Detroit's position right now. A franchise quarterback and consistent mediocrity are a huge upgrade over what they have.
 
2017-12-07 07:35:42 PM  

gunsmack: T.rex: but the results ARE impressive. They have the most draft picks in history,

True, but they have a history of absolute unbridled ineptitude when using those draft picks.


Plus the salary cap wasn't designed for a team to have that many #1 picks on the roster at the same time.  Sooner or later they will run out of cap room just on their current roster if they keep on finishing last and bringing in #1's.
 
2017-12-07 07:39:30 PM  
It might, and don't call me Shirley.
 
2017-12-07 07:41:54 PM  

cefm: gunsmack: T.rex: but the results ARE impressive. They have the most draft picks in history,

True, but they have a history of absolute unbridled ineptitude when using those draft picks.

Plus the salary cap wasn't designed for a team to have that many #1 picks on the roster at the same time.  Sooner or later they will run out of cap room just on their current roster if they keep on finishing last and bringing in #1's.


The rookie salary cap is what saves the Browns from being bankrupt. Either the rookie makes it big (after being traded somewhere else for more draft picks), or is cut before his rookie contract expires because he is not even able to make it to Browns levels of incompetence..
 
2017-12-07 09:23:53 PM  

feanorn: Could Sashi end up being the next Hinkie?


Yes, the rewards of his methodology won't be realized until long after he's been fired. They both did a good job taking basement dwellers and positioning them for success then got fired before actually experiencing any.

The 76ers are probably a playoff team and may have a championship core. The Browns have the assets to become competitive too. When they fire this new group, the Browns should bring Sashi back.
 
2017-12-07 09:39:58 PM  

T.rex: gunsmack: T.rex: but the results ARE impressive. They have the most draft picks in history,

True, but they have a history of absolute unbridled ineptitude when using those draft picks.


That is true, but the person responsible for that function is the person they just fired.


...from the last two years? The draft pick fiasco has gone on far longer than that. It wasn't Sashi who traded what amounted to Julio Jones for what amounted to Trent Richardson, and then traded Trent Richardson for what amounted to Johnny Manziel.  On the other hand, there are quite a few solid draft picks from Sashi's regime playing right now. Say what you will about not getting a QB with the #1 pick last year, but Myles Garrett is the real deal on defense.  The problem isn't who they got for their picks are bad, it's that they're not good enough at the right positions.
 
2017-12-08 12:01:05 AM  

feanorn: Could Sashi end up being the next Hinkie?


The Brock Lobster trade was 100% out of the Hinkie playbook:

"Sure, we'll take that stupid albatross of a contract off your hands, because we don't even meet the salary floor right now. But, you're still going to have to make it worth our while."
 
2017-12-08 06:54:56 AM  
Ive watched pretty much every Browns game: They're closer to being decent right now in what could be an 0-16 season then any time in the last 5-7 years.

a) With Josh McCown still on the team they probably have at least 4 wins right now.  Letting him walk was by design (draft pick position) and Kiser has looked EVERY bit like a rookie, making every conceivable rookie mistake - his turnovers and bad decisions (including missing wide open TD routes with regular abandon) have easily cost them those 4 games.  And after all of that Kiser hasn't shown enough to even think he's the answer longer term.

Watching the Browns D pressure the hell out of Phillip Rivers last week and him still sling the ball all over the field had me comment out loud "SO THAT's what good QB play looks like....)

b) Hue Jackson might be a good head coach and he might be a good OC, but he clearly cant do both at the same time.

No QB = no wins in the NFL
 
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