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(The Root)   I would put up every song on Off the Wall against every song on Thriller in a Pepsi challenge sort of contest to see which songs were better, and Off the Wall would win every single time   ( thegrapevine.theroot.com) divider line
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1611 clicks; posted to Discussion » on 01 Dec 2017 at 7:36 AM (32 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2017-12-01 02:10:46 AM  
Well, yeah, Off the Wall would win every time. What kind of idiot thinks otherwise?
 
2017-12-01 05:57:57 AM  
At first glance I read that as "off The Wall" and thought man, he is seriously trolling Pink Floyd fans.
 
2017-12-01 07:41:24 AM  

Exluddite: At first glance I read that as "off The Wall" and thought man, he is seriously trolling Pink Floyd fans.


Billie Jean is better than Burn This Disco Out.  I do agree Off The Wall is criminally underrated.
 
2017-12-01 07:42:41 AM  
Gosh what a tough question I never thought about. I can definitely dance and jam with off the wall. I can maybe dance to a few songs on thiller  but I love to listen to the songs.

Why not both??

Yay!!!
 
2017-12-01 07:43:24 AM  
He is alleged to have violated our cultural behavioral norms, so we aren't allowed to enjoy his art any longer.
 
2017-12-01 07:45:05 AM  
"Beat It" and "Thriller" win their rounds due to Eddie Van Halen and Vincent Price.
 
2017-12-01 07:52:43 AM  
is that before all the kiddie touching?
 
2017-12-01 07:56:33 AM  
What a Pepsi challenge may look like:
img.fark.netView Full Size


\window seat please
 
2017-12-01 07:57:46 AM  

Freakin Rican: Gosh what a tough question I never thought about. I can definitely dance and jam with off the wall. I can maybe dance to a few songs on thiller  but I love to listen to the songs.

Why not both??

Yay!!!


Word.

Don't make me choose!
 
2017-12-01 08:04:31 AM  

Biscuit Tin: Well, yeah, Off the Wall would win every time. What kind of idiot thinks otherwise?


This.
 
2017-12-01 08:19:18 AM  

browneye: Biscuit Tin: Well, yeah, Off the Wall would win every time. What kind of idiot thinks otherwise?

This.


A rare Done in One, good sign for a Friday.
 
2017-12-01 08:25:56 AM  
Here's the thing:

The songs on Off The Wall are better, but they've dated horribly. They are a product of their time, and at the time everything was Disco. So they sound very rooted in the fad of the day. They are stuck in a specific time and place and they can't get out.

But the songs on Thriller have a timeless quality that age like fine wine. They are a mix of Funk, Soul, R&B, Rock and straight up Pop that would still work in the (almost) exact identical arrangement if you released them today. They are still fresh and exciting.

Similarly, you compare Thriller to Bad or Dangerous, and it becomes more than apparent how much of an outlier Thriller is. Both latter albums have also dated horribly. Like Off The Wall they are products of their time, with that horrible 80s tinny drum programming (with the ubiquitous gated reverb effect) and New Jack Swing style percussion and arrangement. Nobody wants to hear that shiat today.

So that's my answer: Off The Wall had better songs but Thriller was the better album, and arguably the best album of all time if for no other reason than its inventiveness and the brashness of its gimmicks (I mean, who else could put Eddie Van Halen guitar solo, Vincent Price spoken word, Paul McCartney call-and-response and Alvin The Chipmunk vocal tics on the same album and have it all work seemlessly?). 7 of its 9 songs were Top 10 singles. Not even the Beatles accomplished that.
 
2017-12-01 08:36:28 AM  

Ishkur: Here's the thing:


Sound argument.  I just know which one I'd rather hear at a party.
 
2017-12-01 09:06:21 AM  

Zeb Hesselgresser: Sound argument. I just know which one I'd rather hear at a party.


The remixes of course.

Hi Tack - Say Say Say (Waiting 4 U) [OFFICIAL]
Youtube VVGJ6f_pAdA
 
2017-12-01 09:11:51 AM  
Is there anyone familiar with both albums that disagrees with this? Seriously? Is this even a question?

Actually, there is. I have a friend who is an MJ fan. He thinks Thriller is superior to Off the Wall and that Bad is superior to both.

He is a farking idiot.
 
2017-12-01 09:20:03 AM  

Ishkur: The songs on Off The Wall are better, but they've dated horribly. They are a product of their time, and at the time everything was Disco. So they sound very rooted in the fad of the day. They are stuck in a specific time and place and they can't get out.  But the songs on Thriller have a timeless quality that age like fine wine. They are a mix of Funk, Soul, R&B, Rock and straight up Pop that would still work in the (almost) exact identical arrangement if you released them today. They are still fresh and exciting.


Understand what you're saying, but I think that's more a matter of your preferring early '80s production to late '70s production (which I don't mind) or mid-to-late '80s production (where I would concur with you). Off The Wall, Thriller and Bad all sound of their respective times.
 
2017-12-01 09:33:52 AM  

NakedReporta: Understand what you're saying, but I think that's more a matter of your preferring early '80s production to late '70s production (which I don't mind) or mid-to-late '80s production (where I would concur with you). Off The Wall, Thriller and Bad all sound of their respective times.


The difference is R&B, Funk and Soul are still popular today. Disco and New Jack Swing are not. So Thriller has the advantage of targeting genres and musical sensibilities that are still relevant (to the extent that they Grammy categories). And while it's true that technically no music genre goes extinct, when you think of peak Disco or New Jack Swing, there's no rush for the latest releases. At least, not in the commercial music industry.
 
2017-12-01 09:39:38 AM  

Biscuit Tin: Well, yeah, Off the Wall would win every time. What kind of idiot thinks otherwise?


Maybe the 44 million more people who bought Thriller over Off the Wall?
 
2017-12-01 09:42:46 AM  
Michael Jackson's Off The Wall?
 
2017-12-01 10:06:18 AM  
Off the wall was clearly disco\funk-influenced from beginning to end, while Thriller had much more of an expanded palate, from the  hard rock crunch of "Beat it" to the chanting at the end of  "Starting Something," the new wave synths of thriller. It could be argued that as a result "Off the wall" is more cohesive, but Thriller hardly sounds patched together, having a distinct flow of its own.
In the end, really, apples and oranges. Comparing Off The Wall to the Jackson 5 release Triumph makes far more sense as both are grounded in the same disco\funk style, being recorded a year apart.

The Jacksons - Can You Feel It [Audio HQ] HD
Youtube fxn2A1oYqvs
 
2017-12-01 10:06:18 AM  

smurfco: Michael Jackson's Off The Wall?


I'll say. Off the planet, even!

/Murray: present.
 
2017-12-01 10:07:04 AM  

Great_Milenko: Biscuit Tin: Well, yeah, Off the Wall would win every time. What kind of idiot thinks otherwise?

Maybe the 44 million more people who bought Thriller over Off the Wall?


So you're saying Trump supporters have poor taste in music as well as politicians?
 
2017-12-01 10:07:33 AM  
Thriller
 
2017-12-01 10:09:01 AM  

OtherLittleGuy: "Beat It" and "Thriller" win their rounds due to Eddie Van Halen and Vincent Price.


Yacht Rock 5 HD
Youtube YPYaTqP4X68
 
2017-12-01 10:16:07 AM  

NakedReporta: Is there anyone familiar with both albums that disagrees with this? Seriously? Is this even a question?

Actually, there is. I have a friend who is an MJ fan. He thinks Thriller is superior to Off the Wall and that Bad is superior to both.

He is a farking idiot.


I have a weak spot for "Dirty Diana", but for the most part I hate Bad. Off The Wall is just dreck, but then again I hate everything about that sound. It's a personal preference and I can understand of people disagree, but you have to admit that "Thriller" was more groundbreaking than the other two. We need more ground-breaking sounds like Thriller produced. Then again I also think that "Tusk" is the best over-all Fleetwood Mac album, and that "Behind the Mask" was better than "Tango In The Night" or anything after because adding the two country guitarists to replace Lindsey Buckingham on most of the songs added a new depth and dimension to the music that it hadn't had in years.

Sometimes the most experimental albums are the best albums even if they aren't the most popular. Oddly enough, "Rumours" was the top selling experimental album of all time until "Thriller" finally eclipsed it. I say experimental because in-between Mick Fleetwood's cocaine fueled explosions of mediocre productivity, Lindsey Buckingham and Ken Callait were busy smoking pot and actually mastering one of the most painstakingly crafted albums of all time, using taping methods unlike anything used before (at that point) and thankfully they made backup copies for when the originals were so over-layered that they disintegrated. The sound quality on "Rumours" was outstanding because the Masters were literally cured within an hour or less, greatly reducing the shrinkage and preventing fidelity loss resulting in masters more true to the recorded sound than anything that had ever been made before (as most masters were shipped off out of town by mail and would radically shrink by the time they were "cured" and set, a process that was abhorrent to Ken when he found out).

Fast-forward six years and you've got an R&B producer using better technology and adding in new styles that no one had thought of trying before and it totally rocked, with cross-cultural appeal that was picked up by other artists in a way that hadn't been done since Rock n Roll was invented.

Look at how amazing Daft Punk got by completely changing styles.

We need more of that: more creativity in sound and experimentation and utilization of new technologies to produce actual experimental crossover music and not this formulaic cookie-cutter/autotuned/GarageBand® shiat that dominates the market now.

I want to hear a Ska-jazz fusion crossover with the Pan Flute and a piano strummed like a guitar. I want to hear blenders used as primary instruments. I want to hear yodeling harmonies and epic rock thunder mixed with bluegrass on acid.

No more of these shiatty kids with zero talent using programmed digital instruments, we need more kids classically trained on actual musical instruments being set loose in Punk fashion to go wild and come up with something vibrant and better.

This is it kids: this is your last opportunity to produce something truly new before the epic fall of the American Empire and Western Culture as a whole.
 
2017-12-01 10:20:52 AM  
I've always ranked Bad above Thriller, personally.
 
2017-12-01 10:20:55 AM  
Also for the record (no pun intended), as a HUGE Fleetwood Mac fan I think that Lindsey Buckingham is tired and retreading old ground and hasn't come up with an original sound since "Out Of The Cradle" and his latest project with Christine McVie sounds tired and totally unoriginal. He keeps making the same noises over and over again and desperately needs someone to tell his Aspergian ass to try something different for a change. The man has become too set in his ways, and that is why Fleetwood Mac desperately needed new blood.
 
2017-12-01 10:21:25 AM  

Bukharin: OtherLittleGuy: "Beat It" and "Thriller" win their rounds due to Eddie Van Halen and Vincent Price.

[Youtube-video https://www.youtube.com/embed/YPYaTqP4​X68?start=223]


This interview with eddie explaining his part in "Beat It" is a great read.

Tl;dr version
I listened to the song, and I immediately go, "Can I change some parts?" I turned to the engineer and I go, "OK, from the breakdown, chop in this part, go to this piece, pre-chorus, to the chorus, out." Took him maybe 10 minutes to put it together. And I proceeded to improvise two solos over it.
I was just finishing the second solo when Michael walked in. And you know artists are kind of crazy people. We're all a little bit strange. I didn't know how he would react to what I was doing. So I warned him before he listened. I said, "Look, I changed the middle section of your song."
Now in my mind, he's either going to have his bodyguards kick me out for butchering his song, or he's going to like it. And so he gave it a listen, and he turned to me and went, "Wow, thank you so much for having the passion to not just come in and blaze a solo, but to actually care about the song, and make it better."
He was this musical genius with this childlike innocence. He was such a professional, and such a sweetheart.
 
2017-12-01 10:43:35 AM  

Ishkur: The songs on Off The Wall are better, but they've dated horribly. They are a product of their time, and at the time everything was Disco. .


Imaginativescreenname: Off the wall was clearly disco\funk-influenced from beginning to end,


upload.wikimedia.orgView Full Size
 
2017-12-01 11:24:13 AM  
My pal Tom wrote "She's Out Of My Life", so I'm already biased for Off The Wall.

But I know the guys who played trumpet on Thriller, so I'm biased for that record.
 
2017-12-01 11:30:05 AM  

LewDux: Ishkur: The songs on Off The Wall are better, but they've dated horribly. They are a product of their time, and at the time everything was Disco. .

Imaginativescreenname: Off the wall was clearly disco\funk-influenced from beginning to end,


2.bp.blogspot.comView Full Size


FTFM
 
2017-12-01 11:34:59 AM  
While I dig a lot of his sound, I can only ever understand every other word when Michael Jackson sings in most of his songs.  It's like a fuzzy radio station that fades in and out.  And I'm not talking about his scatting sounds, I mean his actual lyrics.  I realize that this is a failing of mine.

/so very white
// shamone
 
2017-12-01 11:51:23 AM  

stonelotus: is that before all the kiddie touching?


Not sure.  But Jacko was renowned for his multitasking skills.
 
2017-12-01 11:57:21 AM  
Man, that's like Hanzo swords.

If you're gonna compare a Quincy Jones produced Micheal Jackson album, you compare it to every other Micheal Jackson album that wasn't produced by Quincy Jones.
 
2017-12-01 11:57:29 AM  

McGrits: What a Pepsi challenge may look like:
[img.fark.net image 306x538][View Full Size image _x_]

\window seat please


ooooo..Sick burn
 
2017-12-01 12:54:53 PM  
Thriller is better.

Off the Wall wasn't brutally overplayed so the tracks still sound fresh. And it is more of a dance album, which aren't too common.
 
2017-12-01 02:44:16 PM  

Ishkur: Here's the thing:
...
Similarly, you compare Thriller to Bad or Dangerous, and it becomes more than apparent how much of an outlier Thriller is. Both latter albums have also dated horribly. Like Off The Wall they are products of their time, with that horrible 80s tinny drum programming (with the ubiquitous gated reverb effect) and New Jack Swing style percussion and arrangement. Nobody wants to hear that shiat today.

...
I agree with you. But for some reason I love Leave Me Alone off Bad. It's everything you described about horrible 80's music, but for some reason, I like it. The synth, the fake drums, Michael singing his own backup vocals; Its like if you took every MJ gimmick and mixed them up into a parody song, but for me, it just works.
I know, I'm weird.
 
2017-12-01 04:05:24 PM  

Exluddite: At first glance I read that as "off The Wall" and thought man, he is seriously trolling Pink Floyd fans.


I would wager that every track off "The Wall" (including the unlistenable 'Vera') is better than any track off of the Final Cut.

/Not really into daring bets
 
2017-12-01 06:10:30 PM  
"Billie Jean" is a better pop song than anything on Off The Wall, but Off The Wall is, overall, a better record than Thriller.

And except for the hits, I've ignored everything after Thriller.


/ dnrta
// fark The Root
 
2017-12-01 07:34:28 PM  
Nope, Human Nature is the best MJ song ever recorded.
Ever.
 
2017-12-01 08:10:32 PM  
"Off the Wall" might be a better album overall than "Thriller." You can make that argument. But "Billie Jean" is far better than any song on "Off the Wall."

I have a feeling that "Billie Jean" was just overplayed. It's almost like people didn't actually hear it and were just caught up in the hype. There was pandemonium whenever the intro bass riff launched at any of his concerts. It's a ridiculously distinctive song, and also curiously minimalist, but every time the subject came up the audience blew the doors off. The lyrics are as stark and unforgiving (and, according to Jackson, biographical) as the beat, and Jackson always performed it as if possessed. Go ahead and watch the Motown 25 performance if you like, but check out the version he did on "This Is It," and bear in mind that those are the moves of a fifty-year-old man with only a few months to live.

The "Thriller" album was because Michael wanted to do an album in which "every song was a single." That's all well and good, but the result sounds like a compilation; this might be where the reviewer is coming from. "The Girl is Mine" and "Wanna Be Starting Something" don't really belong on the same disc. However, I also agree that "Off the Wall" is ridiculously dated. I just listened to a few tracks and they did not age well at all.
 
2017-12-01 11:56:41 PM  
At my school when Off the Wall came out it shocked everyone. We had all written Michael Jackson off as a has been, his Jackson 5 days long over. But everyone, even the metalheads and punks, loved Off the Wall. It just sounded so perfect, like THIS was the real Michael Jackson. It was truly a sensation. Then when Thriller came out of course a bunch of people liked it but it wasn't the same feeling. It had that sound you associate with the commercial and not the artistic. So he brought in a far bigger audience but some of us will always lament the end of what Off the Wall seemed to begin for him.
 
2017-12-02 07:56:13 AM  
All Michael Jackson fans are closet pedophiles.
 
2017-12-02 08:28:40 AM  
Bjork once said she loved this video because it made her believe in magic.  Yeah.

Michael Jackson - Rock With You (Official Video)
Youtube 5X-Mrc2l1d0
 
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