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(Yahoo)   If you want to see the future Ajit Pai wants for America, and what his version of "internet freedom" looks like, take a look at Portugal, where you pay at different tiers for access to email, text messages, social networks, music, videos, etc   ( finance.yahoo.com) divider line
    More: Scary, net neutrality, preferential access, net neutrality protections, Network neutrality, Wi-Fi, Google, wireless carrier Meo, big-name apps  
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2403 clicks; posted to Politics » on 22 Nov 2017 at 2:16 PM (34 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2017-11-22 12:02:15 PM  
How to destroy the internet startup industry in one simple step.
 
2017-11-22 12:13:00 PM  
Gosh, when you think of Fourth Industrial Revolution Powerhouses, you don't think of Portugal, but, geez, I guess Pai must be right.
 
2017-11-22 12:24:15 PM  
Boy howdy I sure do look forward to paying twice to get to things like my farking Spotify.  I can't wait till the streaming wars start and people start throttling netflix of hbogo to push their shiattier versions with less content.
I have a feeling I am going to spend a large chunk of the foreseeable future using every farking ounce of bandwidth I have to fill a few massive hard drives with content through questionable means.
 
2017-11-22 12:27:11 PM  

Markoff_Cheney: Boy howdy I sure do look forward to paying twice to get to things like my farking Spotify.  I can't wait till the streaming wars start and people start throttling netflix of hbogo to push their shiattier versions with less content.
I have a feeling I am going to spend a large chunk of the foreseeable future using every farking ounce of bandwidth I have to fill a few massive hard drives with content through questionable means.


I think this will be the first thing. I don't think any ISP would be stupid enough to directly block websites (at least to start with). But slowing down streaming while claiming their own streaming service is just as good is a very logical starting point.
 
2017-11-22 12:37:18 PM  
Struggling through the meo.pt website myself.

Buying extra data for extra apps seems to be only for cellphone internet, and only for apps which are generally agreed to be large data hogs.

(I see YouPorn didn't make the video streaming list!)

Meo's fee structure for cellphone data seems to top out at EUR29.99 a month for 30GB.

If you wanted 20GB, let's say, but you knew 10GB of that would be video streaming (Netflix, say), 19.99 for 10GB + 6.99 for Netflix would be a better deal than the 29.99 for 30GB.

You could also add 10GB to the 30GB if the 30GB was genuinely not enough and you had a good idea of why (you love watching movies on your phone that much).

There don't seem to be data plans for home Internet targeted to particular websites. So you could watch Netflix to your heart's content at home.

So if that were all there were to it, and net neutrality were abolished in Canada tomorrow morning, I could probably live with this. Nobody has a good business incentive to throttle anybody out of spite; they do have an incentive to extract more money from the people and websites who put the biggest strain on the cellphone network (the better to pay for improvements---such fee structures don't seem to have held back investment in broadband in Portugal).

But I seriously doubt that's all there is to it. So what am I missing here?
 
2017-11-22 01:08:53 PM  

MikeyFuccon: So what am I missing here?


That this is going to happen in America.
 
2017-11-22 01:19:29 PM  

MikeyFuccon: Struggling through the meo.pt website myself.

Buying extra data for extra apps seems to be only for cellphone internet, and only for apps which are generally agreed to be large data hogs.

(I see YouPorn didn't make the video streaming list!)

Meo's fee structure for cellphone data seems to top out at EUR29.99 a month for 30GB.

If you wanted 20GB, let's say, but you knew 10GB of that would be video streaming (Netflix, say), 19.99 for 10GB + 6.99 for Netflix would be a better deal than the 29.99 for 30GB.

You could also add 10GB to the 30GB if the 30GB was genuinely not enough and you had a good idea of why (you love watching movies on your phone that much).

There don't seem to be data plans for home Internet targeted to particular websites. So you could watch Netflix to your heart's content at home.

So if that were all there were to it, and net neutrality were abolished in Canada tomorrow morning, I could probably live with this. Nobody has a good business incentive to throttle anybody out of spite; they do have an incentive to extract more money from the people and websites who put the biggest strain on the cellphone network (the better to pay for improvements---such fee structures don't seem to have held back investment in broadband in Portugal).

But I seriously doubt that's all there is to it. So what am I missing here?


They'll be able to do this with wired internet as well. You won't pay for X bits per second anymore, you'll pay for X bits per second, for access to Y tier of services and sites, up to a monthly cap of Z gigabytes. They're trying to turn the free and open internet into Cable TV packages.
 
2017-11-22 01:23:15 PM  
Still glad you voted for Trump, assholes?
 
2017-11-22 01:27:52 PM  

MikeyFuccon: Nobody has a good business incentive to throttle anybody out of spite; they do have an incentive to extract more money from the people and websites who put the biggest strain on the cellphone network (the better to pay for improvements---such fee structures don't seem to have held back investment in broadband in Portugal).

But I seriously doubt that's all there is to it. So what am I missing here?


2005 - Madison River Communications was blocking VOIP services. The FCC put a stop to it.
2005 - Comcast was denying access to p2p services without notifying customers.
2007-2009 - AT&T was having Skype and other VOIPs blocked because they didn't like there was competition for their cellphones. 
2011 - MetroPCS tried to block all streaming except YouTube. They actually sued the FCC over this.
2011-2013, AT&T, Sprint, and Verizon were blocking access to Google Wallet because it competed with their own wallet apps. This one happened literally months after the trio were busted collaborating with Google to block apps from the android marketplace.
2012, Verizon was demanding Google block tethering apps on android because it let owners avoid their $20 tethering fee. This was despite guaranteeing they wouldn't do that as part of a winning bid on an airwaves auction.
2012, AT&T - tried to block access to FaceTime unless customers paid more money.
2013, Verizon literally stated that the only thing stopping them from favoring some content providers over other providers were the net neutrality rules in place.

/stolen from ars
 
2017-11-22 01:46:03 PM  
 
2017-11-22 01:47:10 PM  
Ajit Pai has been in the top 5 of most hated Americans for a while, now.
 
2017-11-22 01:49:30 PM  
Please forgive the possibly dumb question I'm about to pose.

Assuming that Ajit Pai has his way and net neutrality is killed here, can net neutrality be re-established if the Democrats regain control of Congress and the presidency? In short, can all this damage be undone if/when the country wises up during the midterms and general election?
 
2017-11-22 01:58:00 PM  
This is going to happen and there's not a goddamn thing you can do about it.

Who spent more lobbying Congress and buying influence?  Comcast, Verizon, AT&T?

Or was it you?

"Ok", you think.  "We'll fix it once The Democrats are back in power."  You won't be able to.  In 2022, the average person will say, "If they pass that 'Neutral Net 2.0 bill', my Internet bill's gonna go up sky high!  We gotta fight it!" ...because that is exactly what they are going to be spoon fed by the people who control the prices owning the channels they rely on for information.

Game Over, kids.  Nice while it lasted.

Of course, you could always stop using the internet, right?
 
2017-11-22 02:07:58 PM  

PirateKing: They'll be able to do this with wired internet as well. You won't pay for X bits per second anymore, you'll pay for X bits per second, for access to Y tier of services and sites, up to a monthly cap of Z gigabytes. They're trying to turn the free and open internet into Cable TV packages.


50 million chronic masturbaters blissfully unaware of this bs will rise up the moment their porn is baffled. 

Wake that sleeping giant and they will burn this motherfarker down.
 
2017-11-22 02:11:26 PM  

Jake Havechek: Ajit Pai has been in the top 5 of most hated Americans for a while, now.


And instead of reflecting on it, he relishes it.
 
2017-11-22 02:14:23 PM  

Giant Clown Shoe: PirateKing: They'll be able to do this with wired internet as well. You won't pay for X bits per second anymore, you'll pay for X bits per second, for access to Y tier of services and sites, up to a monthly cap of Z gigabytes. They're trying to turn the free and open internet into Cable TV packages.

50 million chronic masturbaters blissfully unaware of this bs will rise up the moment their porn is baffled. 

Wake that sleeping giant and they will burn this motherfarker down.


That's part of the evangelical/dominionist plan too. Get rid of porn sites, sin is magically gone forever.
 
2017-11-22 02:18:47 PM  
The USA is just jealous of Portugal's freedoms.
 
2017-11-22 02:19:56 PM  

Kubo: Please forgive the possibly dumb question I'm about to pose.

Assuming that Ajit Pai has his way and net neutrality is killed here, can net neutrality be re-established if the Democrats regain control of Congress and the presidency? In short, can all this damage be undone if/when the country wises up during the midterms and general election?


No.
Once this genie is out of the bottle it's out.
 
2017-11-22 02:22:09 PM  

Kubo: Assuming that Ajit Pai has his way and net neutrality is killed here, can net neutrality be re-established if the Democrats regain control of Congress and the presidency?


The democrats are lowkey ok with this.
 
2017-11-22 02:22:53 PM  
Ajit Pai will be the death of online video games.
 
2017-11-22 02:23:47 PM  

Purple_Urkle: Ajit Pai will be the death of online video games.


LoL is going to be pissed.
 
2017-11-22 02:23:48 PM  
And just a hop-skip-and a jump to establish the Great American PayWall
 
2017-11-22 02:24:23 PM  

Jake Havechek: Ajit Pai has been in the top 5 of most hated Americans for a while, now.


Second only to Suq Madiq.
 
2017-11-22 02:24:49 PM  

Donald_McRonald: Kubo: Assuming that Ajit Pai has his way and net neutrality is killed here, can net neutrality be re-established if the Democrats regain control of Congress and the presidency?

The democrats are lowkey ok with this.


Yet they didn't do it.
 
2017-11-22 02:25:00 PM  
A free internet is the opium of the masses, take that away....folks will get very pissed off (maybe, unless they are all got-damn stupid)
 
2017-11-22 02:25:44 PM  

Gubbo: Markoff_Cheney: Boy howdy I sure do look forward to paying twice to get to things like my farking Spotify.  I can't wait till the streaming wars start and people start throttling netflix of hbogo to push their shiattier versions with less content.
I have a feeling I am going to spend a large chunk of the foreseeable future using every farking ounce of bandwidth I have to fill a few massive hard drives with content through questionable means.

I think this will be the first thing. I don't think any ISP would be stupid enough to directly block websites (at least to start with). But slowing down streaming while claiming their own streaming service is just as good is a very logical starting point.


Internet will be like cable. You don't pay as a content provider, we don't allow you on our network.

For those conservatives out there. Comcast NBC could prevent you from seeing your streaming fox news in good qulaity or block it all together,
 
2017-11-22 02:25:58 PM  

Peter von Nostrand: Donald_McRonald: Kubo: Assuming that Ajit Pai has his way and net neutrality is killed here, can net neutrality be re-established if the Democrats regain control of Congress and the presidency?

The democrats are lowkey ok with this.

Yet they didn't do it.


In fact, they did the opposite, and put the rules into place that Ajit Pai is trying to tear away.

Almost like 'Both sides are bad' is complete horseshiat.
 
2017-11-22 02:27:00 PM  
Old money hates new tech money and their liberal ideas, and that they have become rich as fark without crony capitalism.
 
2017-11-22 02:27:04 PM  

JustToLetYouKnowFriend: Kubo: Please forgive the possibly dumb question I'm about to pose.

Assuming that Ajit Pai has his way and net neutrality is killed here, can net neutrality be re-established if the Democrats regain control of Congress and the presidency? In short, can all this damage be undone if/when the country wises up during the midterms and general election?

No.
Once this genie is out of the bottle it's out.


That's bullshiat and you know it.
 
2017-11-22 02:27:06 PM  
If you have anything important in 'The Cloud', you may want to have a physical, local backup of any of your stuff.

/what Internet Tier will I need to access my Google Drives & Dropbox?
 
2017-11-22 02:27:52 PM  

PirateKing: Giant Clown Shoe: PirateKing: They'll be able to do this with wired internet as well. You won't pay for X bits per second anymore, you'll pay for X bits per second, for access to Y tier of services and sites, up to a monthly cap of Z gigabytes. They're trying to turn the free and open internet into Cable TV packages.

50 million chronic masturbaters blissfully unaware of this bs will rise up the moment their porn is baffled. 

Wake that sleeping giant and they will burn this motherfarker down.

That's part of the evangelical/dominionist plan too. Get rid of porn sites, sin is magically gone forever.


About that.
 
2017-11-22 02:27:53 PM  
Portugal has net neutrality; the things listed here were already completely legal under the current framework in the United States.

Net neutrality is a good thing: both sides have a bad habit of misrepresenting the most likely outcomes of a policy change.
 
2017-11-22 02:28:26 PM  

amfv: This is going to happen and there's not a goddamn thing you can do about it.

Who spent more lobbying Congress and buying influence?  Comcast, Verizon, AT&T?

Or was it you?

"Ok", you think.  "We'll fix it once The Democrats are back in power."  You won't be able to.  In 2022, the average person will say, "If they pass that 'Neutral Net 2.0 bill', my Internet bill's gonna go up sky high!  We gotta fight it!" ...because that is exactly what they are going to be spoon fed by the people who control the prices owning the channels they rely on for information.

Game Over, kids.  Nice while it lasted.

Of course, you could always stop using the internet, right?


I stopped using the internet years ago.
 
2017-11-22 02:28:57 PM  

Purple_Urkle: Ajit Pai will be the death of online video games.


Online everything.  Streaming?  Done.
 
2017-11-22 02:29:30 PM  
Wrong.  It's worse.

Your internet connection speed effectively would do what the Portuguese internet structure does.  If you had old dial-up speed at the level you're paying for then effectively you'd only be able to do email and text message.  One step up and you could navigate web pages and maybe listen to music, and only with true high speed could you watch video.

What Comcast would do to us is - you pay for high speed internet, but Comcast either blocks or throttles your access to CNN for any reason whatsoever, and might or might not charge you or CNN more money to restore that access.  Or they could just keep it off because Trump asked them to.
 
2017-11-22 02:30:32 PM  

Donald_McRonald: Kubo: Assuming that Ajit Pai has his way and net neutrality is killed here, can net neutrality be re-established if the Democrats regain control of Congress and the presidency?

The democrats are lowkey ok with this.


I used to think that, but Wheeler's about-face on the issue (and the Democratic support for it) proved me wrong.

You could turn it back, but it is the same thing as anti-trust issues: banning something from happening is a hell of a lot cleaner than allowing something to happen, not being happy with the results, and then trying to ban it.
 
2017-11-22 02:30:43 PM  
Youtuber's must be sweating bullets right about now.

You mean I have to get an REAL job?
 
2017-11-22 02:30:50 PM  
Good job, Republicans.  Give yourselves a round of applause.
 
2017-11-22 02:31:41 PM  

Kubo: Please forgive the possibly dumb question I'm about to pose.

Assuming that Ajit Pai has his way and net neutrality is killed here, can net neutrality be re-established if the Democrats regain control of Congress and the presidency? In short, can all this damage be undone if/when the country wises up during the midterms and general election?


No...not likely.

Once this buggery is passed then it's open season.

The only way this ends up changing is if startup and municipal ISP's recognize that there's a market for the way things used to be and start marketing towards that.
 
2017-11-22 02:32:43 PM  

sirrerun: PirateKing: Giant Clown Shoe: PirateKing: They'll be able to do this with wired internet as well. You won't pay for X bits per second anymore, you'll pay for X bits per second, for access to Y tier of services and sites, up to a monthly cap of Z gigabytes. They're trying to turn the free and open internet into Cable TV packages.

50 million chronic masturbaters blissfully unaware of this bs will rise up the moment their porn is baffled. 

Wake that sleeping giant and they will burn this motherfarker down.

That's part of the evangelical/dominionist plan too. Get rid of porn sites, sin is magically gone forever.

About that.


Yeah, in private. And they feel so deliciously guilty and dirty about it that they have to shout it down in public.
 
2017-11-22 02:33:13 PM  

Donald_McRonald: Kubo: Assuming that Ajit Pai has his way and net neutrality is killed here, can net neutrality be re-established if the Democrats regain control of Congress and the presidency?

The democrats are lowkey ok with this.


Not even close. The previous administration tried to enshrine net neutrality by reclassifying internet access as a utility, which would bar this kind of bullshiat from happening.

Please stop with the Both Sides Are Bad. It was disingenuous then and it's an outright lie now.
 
2017-11-22 02:33:22 PM  

LordJiro: JustToLetYouKnowFriend: Kubo: Please forgive the possibly dumb question I'm about to pose.

Assuming that Ajit Pai has his way and net neutrality is killed here, can net neutrality be re-established if the Democrats regain control of Congress and the presidency? In short, can all this damage be undone if/when the country wises up during the midterms and general election?

No.
Once this genie is out of the bottle it's out.

That's bullshiat and you know it.


Yes and no.  Consider all of the folks who will say "I can't afford to put into action my great idea for the next Amazon or EBay or Spotify or whatever" while the rule is in effect. And the kids who are not trained in using the internet because their parents were too poor to afford any tier beyond e-mail.  Of course it can be reversed, but a great deal of damage will already occur.
 
2017-11-22 02:34:16 PM  

Skarekrough: Kubo: Please forgive the possibly dumb question I'm about to pose.

Assuming that Ajit Pai has his way and net neutrality is killed here, can net neutrality be re-established if the Democrats regain control of Congress and the presidency? In short, can all this damage be undone if/when the country wises up during the midterms and general election?

No...not likely.

Once this buggery is passed then it's open season.

The only way this ends up changing is if startup and municipal ISP's recognize that there's a market for the way things used to be and start marketing towards that.


Why do you think this would be irreversible? It'd be messy and difficult to reverse, as long as the GOP parasites have any scrap of power, true, but it'd be possible.
 
2017-11-22 02:34:30 PM  
The solution to the problem is to eliminate the government granted monopolies that put telecoms in the place of prominence that they are in. Anyone should be able to start their own telecom.
 
2017-11-22 02:37:08 PM  

Jake Havechek: Purple_Urkle: Ajit Pai will be the death of online video games.

Online everything.  Streaming?  Done.


Streaming is not 'done' without Net Neutrality.
It will just a.) cost more, b.) come only from Comcast Xfinity*

But I repeat myself.


*or whatever new branding they come up with to try to make us forget they're evil
 
2017-11-22 02:37:48 PM  

Lost Thought 00: And just a hop-skip-and a jump to establish the Great American PayWall



Build that (pay)Wall! Build that (pay)Wall!

/and make America pay for it :(
 
2017-11-22 02:37:54 PM  

Moroning: Youtuber's must be sweating bullets right about now.

You mean I have to get an REAL job?


I highly doubt it would be cost effective for ISPs to hunt down certain channels to block: more likely they will just throttle YouTube for taking up too much of their bandwith (you know, the bandwidth that their customers are paying for expressly to access that content) and as such Google has to pay them to set up a "fast lane" (which Google likely will pay because it will be worth it to them) and ISPs can say hooray for all the free money.

The question is if Google then deducts that cost from user ad revenue: most YouTubers already say that algorithm changes have caused their view counts (and ad revenue) to plummet over the last year, so I have to wonder when the whole thing breaks down.
 
2017-11-22 02:38:45 PM  

RPG_Guy: The solution to the problem is to eliminate the government granted monopolies that put telecoms in the place of prominence that they are in. Anyone should be able to start their own telecom.


They're already heading that off at the pass.
Have been for years.
 
2017-11-22 02:39:16 PM  

Kubo: Please forgive the possibly dumb question I'm about to pose.

Assuming that Ajit Pai has his way and net neutrality is killed here, can net neutrality be re-established if the Democrats regain control of Congress and the presidency? In short, can all this damage be undone if/when the country wises up during the midterms and general election?


Yes.

Ignore the naysayers.

This is being implemented by a vote of the FCC commissioners. . .it could be reversed just as easily.

It wouldn't take an act of Congress, just a majority of the FCC commissioners being appointed by Democrats or at least having enough sense to realize the damage that the loss of Net Neutrality had.
 
2017-11-22 02:39:43 PM  
The important question is "Once the death of net neutrality causes app-addicted hillbillies to lose access to their favorite sheep-farking and corn-shucking podcasts how will they find a way to blame Obama and Hillary?"
 
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