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(Talking Points Memo)   Too many publications serve too few eyeballs through too few sharing platforms, meaning no more VC returns. Digital media is crashing, and nobody wants to talk about it because their funding depends on it. Except for our Heineken-swilling overlord   ( talkingpointsmemo.com) divider line
    More: Interesting, platform monopolies, Finance, Advertising, publications, Investment, Digital, That that is is that that is not is not is that it it is, digital news media  
•       •       •

2216 clicks; posted to Business » on 18 Nov 2017 at 5:56 AM (35 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2017-11-18 01:07:14 AM  
This is kind of a  big deal.
 
2017-11-18 06:05:35 AM  

Kirablue42: This is kind of a  big deal.


You'll get over it.
 
2017-11-18 06:27:22 AM  
You'll take my paper news online articles from my cold dead eyes.
 
2017-11-18 06:52:06 AM  
Now I am craving a Heineken. Not even 7 in the morning and I need to go to work still. Damn you subby!
 
2017-11-18 07:07:38 AM  
Kill Facebook and Twitter. They've proven they do vastly more harm than good. They shouldn't be allowed to exist on that basis alone.

Eventually, someone will develop something new that users will flock to, just as Facebook ended Myspace. Unfortunately, there's no doubt in my mind that the new thing will be even worse.
 
2017-11-18 07:31:23 AM  
FTA: ...No publisher in existence says to themselves, my readers are demanding more of their news on video as opposed to text. Not a single one. The move to video is driven entirely by advertiser demand.

What the 1% wants, the 1% gets. Your opinion does not count.
 
2017-11-18 07:44:59 AM  

likefunbutnot: Kill Facebook and Twitter. They've proven they do vastly more harm than good. They shouldn't be allowed to exist on that basis alone.

Eventually, someone will develop something new that users will flock to, just as Facebook ended Myspace. Unfortunately, there's no doubt in my mind that the new thing will be even worse.


Google TRIED to make a Facebook replacement. . .it failed, miserably.

Twitter needs to DIAF, painfully.  There is nothing of merit there.

Facebook I think may be salvageable, but with a lot of changes, and ones that advertisers wouldn't really like (so it's probably not going to happen).
 
2017-11-18 07:47:02 AM  
Eventually people will have to start paying subscriptions for news, like some sort of pre-1995 caveman.
 
2017-11-18 08:33:25 AM  
Won't somebody please think of the VCs?!?!?!
 
2017-11-18 08:47:20 AM  
Too many publications, says Talking Points Memo.  So this is awkward.
 
2017-11-18 09:01:42 AM  
Off topic, but the big streaming services like Amazon and Netflix really need to get their own news divisions, and hulu should add the news from the major channels to its service.  That more than anything would kill fake news.
 
2017-11-18 09:03:25 AM  
Josh Marshall has been running an actual news site as a business for a dozen years and he's discussing his industry.

But don't fear, Farkers who don't read past the headline will be here to educate us on the REAL story.
 
2017-11-18 09:19:16 AM  

winedrinkingman: Off topic, but the big streaming services like Amazon and Netflix really need to get their own news divisions


That would make the problem worse. A handful of companies are sucking up the revenue. We don't need more "news" comprising 30 second videos.

Watch TV news and note how much of their "reporting" is just glib comments referring to stories done by the people who are actually investigating and talking to principals. We need real reporters, making calls, poring over documents, knocking on doors. Talking Points Memo does that. The Guardian does that. The NYT and WaPo do that.

We don't need to shovel more money to Amazon and Netflix for infotainment "news" divisions.

HERE is the problem:

Apr. 26, 2017 - Business Insider - "Google and Facebook together accounted for an astounding 99% of revenue growth from digital advertising in the US last year, according to an analysis of IAB estimates by Pivotal Research senior analyst Brian Wieser on Wednesday. In a note to clients seen by Business Insider, Wieser said that both ad giants captured a combined 77% of gross spending in 2016, an increase from 72% in 2015"
 
kab
2017-11-18 09:42:08 AM  
Online advertising gas an incredibly low connect rate.  If the average remotely savvy user isnt already avoiding them almost entirely via blockers, they certainly arent clicking on any.

Video allows for unblockable advertising, often placed mid-video.  Twitch has already adopted this, with ads running at the start of every feed, which seem unavoidable (unlike Youtube ads).  Spotify of course, does the same thing...easy to undersfand why its being viewed as preferable by advertisers.
 
2017-11-18 10:23:29 AM  
The problem I see with this shift is that I read my news and information on a tablet with sound muted. I don't or rarely watch video segments to get information.

I suppose I'm an anachronism, but without a total, forced restructuring of my browsing habits, a 'pivot to video' means a loss of my eyeball. Can't imagine I'm the only one with no interest in online video news.
 
2017-11-18 10:30:24 AM  

Schlubbe: The problem I see with this shift is that I read my news and information on a tablet with sound muted. I don't or rarely watch video segments to get information.

I suppose I'm an anachronism, but without a total, forced restructuring of my browsing habits, a 'pivot to video' means a loss of my eyeball. Can't imagine I'm the only one with no interest in online video news.


Watching video with sound is impossible at work for 99% of the people in my office.
 
2017-11-18 10:31:46 AM  
and it's the locals who'll drive change.
tornado alerts, probably.

media news got abandoned here as it worsened. (trump, hillory, france sweden, etc)

weather alerts, sports scores...
oh, and I watched a drug-store put a book store out of biz with a midnight opening for a harry porter book.

at half price, which Killed the bookstore.

I expect to see that, with flash riots and mobs from old school news casts.

get yer mob on, people.\\packrat
 
2017-11-18 10:47:31 AM  
This is what I specialized in for my econ degree back in '99: Netonomics (information economics)

 If one is interested in this kind of thing, one should read this man's book:
https://www.amazon.com/Information-Ru​l​es-Strategic-Network-Economy/dp/087584​863X
a1.amlimg.comView Full Size

...bonus...Dr. Varian is now Google's Chief Economist
 
2017-11-18 10:55:16 AM  

Silverstaff: likefunbutnot: Kill Facebook and Twitter. They've proven they do vastly more harm than good. They shouldn't be allowed to exist on that basis alone.

Eventually, someone will develop something new that users will flock to, just as Facebook ended Myspace. Unfortunately, there's no doubt in my mind that the new thing will be even worse.

Google TRIED to make a Facebook replacement. . .it failed, miserably.

Twitter needs to DIAF, painfully.  There is nothing of merit there.

Facebook I think may be salvageable, but with a lot of changes, and ones that advertisers wouldn't really like (so it's probably not going to happen).


Google is not really all that good at things. The one thing that they really got right out of the box was search and monetizing it through advertising. Every other success they've had is a result of that first success generating essentially infinite money that they can throw at a million different projects and then they keep the handful that work by sheer luck and toss the rest and pretend they never happened.

Any given projects that they do will probably fail.
 
2017-11-18 11:05:31 AM  

jaytkay: winedrinkingman: Off topic, but the big streaming services like Amazon and Netflix really need to get their own news divisions

That would make the problem worse. A handful of companies are sucking up the revenue. We don't need more "news" comprising 30 second videos.

Watch TV news and note how much of their "reporting" is just glib comments referring to stories done by the people who are actually investigating and talking to principals. We need real reporters, making calls, poring over documents, knocking on doors. Talking Points Memo does that. The Guardian does that. The NYT and WaPo do that.

We don't need to shovel more money to Amazon and Netflix for infotainment "news" divisions.

HERE is the problem:

Apr. 26, 2017 - Business Insider - "Google and Facebook together accounted for an astounding 99% of revenue growth from digital advertising in the US last year, according to an analysis of IAB estimates by Pivotal Research senior analyst Brian Wieser on Wednesday. In a note to clients seen by Business Insider, Wieser said that both ad giants captured a combined 77% of gross spending in 2016, an increase from 72% in 2015"


I wasn't talking about them creating infotainment news, I was talking about them forming their own actual news divisions.  With their own field reporters and investigative journalist.  They have the money to do it, and as the biggest media companies in the world, they kind of have a duty to do so as well.
 
2017-11-18 11:05:38 AM  

jaytkay: winedrinkingman: Off topic, but the big streaming services like Amazon and Netflix really need to get their own news divisions

That would make the problem worse. A handful of companies are sucking up the revenue. We don't need more "news" comprising 30 second videos.

Watch TV news and note how much of their "reporting" is just glib comments referring to stories done by the people who are actually investigating and talking to principals. We need real reporters, making calls, poring over documents, knocking on doors. Talking Points Memo does that. The Guardian does that. The NYT and WaPo do that.

We don't need to shovel more money to Amazon and Netflix for infotainment "news" divisions.

HERE is the problem:

Apr. 26, 2017 - Business Insider - "Google and Facebook together accounted for an astounding 99% of revenue growth from digital advertising in the US last year, according to an analysis of IAB estimates by Pivotal Research senior analyst Brian Wieser on Wednesday. In a note to clients seen by Business Insider, Wieser said that both ad giants captured a combined 77% of gross spending in 2016, an increase from 72% in 2015"


http://theoatmeal.com/comics/reaching​_​people
 
2017-11-18 11:11:58 AM  

Delta1212: Google is not really all that good at things. ... infinite money that they can throw at a million different projects and then they keep the handful that work by sheer luck and toss the rest and pretend they never happened.


Babe Ruth was the Strikeout King as well as the Home Run King.

That doesn't mean he was a bad baseball player.
 
2017-11-18 11:17:06 AM  
Gothamist and DNAInfo went bust a couple of weeks ago.

Uproxx and Defy Media are next on the fire sale block after Mashable.

Meanwhile, Fusion (Onion, Jezebel, Deadspin, etc) and Group Nine (Thrillist, The Dodo, etc) are raising hundreds of millions of dollars in fresh capital.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articl​e​s/2017-11-17/mashable-sale-talks-signa​l-reckoning-for-digital-media-upstarts​

http://www.businessinsider.com/group-​n​ine-media-taps-digital-ad-veteran-adam​-shlachter-as-cmo-2017-10
 
2017-11-18 11:17:37 AM  

kab: Online advertising gas an incredibly low connect rate.  If the average remotely savvy user isnt already avoiding them almost entirely via blockers, they certainly arent clicking on any.

Video allows for unblockable advertising, often placed mid-video.  Twitch has already adopted this, with ads running at the start of every feed, which seem unavoidable (unlike Youtube ads).  Spotify of course, does the same thing...easy to undersfand why its being viewed as preferable by advertisers.


Only free Spotify has ads.
 
2017-11-18 11:25:30 AM  

Silverstaff: Twitter needs to DIAF, painfully.  There is nothing of merit there.


As twitter is coming close to making an actual profit - the market thinks otherwise.

/exactly how do you propose killing off services you don't like?
//truly curious
 
2017-11-18 11:27:29 AM  

kab: Online advertising gas an incredibly low connect rate.  If the average remotely savvy user isnt already avoiding them almost entirely via blockers, they certainly arent clicking on any.

Video allows for unblockable advertising, often placed mid-video.  Twitch has already adopted this, with ads running at the start of every feed, which seem unavoidable (unlike Youtube ads).  Spotify of course, does the same thing...easy to undersfand why its being viewed as preferable by advertisers.


Time to return to print. in a big way.
 
2017-11-18 11:28:37 AM  

TedCruz'sCrazyDad: Schlubbe: The problem I see with this shift is that I read my news and information on a tablet with sound muted. I don't or rarely watch video segments to get information.

I suppose I'm an anachronism, but without a total, forced restructuring of my browsing habits, a 'pivot to video' means a loss of my eyeball. Can't imagine I'm the only one with no interest in online video news.

Watching video with sound is impossible at work for 99% of the people in my office.


I can't even stand watching news in video form at home, unless there's a video of an incident that adds to the story. It usually involves me sitting there for three minutes listening to an anchor read something painfully slowly that I could have glazed through in 40 seconds with text.
 
2017-11-18 11:33:35 AM  

wrenchboy: Now I am craving a Heineken. Not even 7 in the morning and I need to go to work still. Damn you subby!


What's wrong with drinking in the morning? When I lived in Vegas, bars were open 24/7 (if there were slot machines in any bar, they had to stay open). Plus now you have a good part of the day to recover, and can enjoy your night sober!
 
2017-11-18 11:36:47 AM  

winedrinkingman: Off topic, but the big streaming services like Amazon and Netflix really need to get their own news divisions, and hulu should add the news from the major channels to its service.  That more than anything would kill fake news.


Why not just host npr news or bbc news?

/no new, fix old
//I feel weird
 
2017-11-18 11:43:49 AM  

gingerjet: Silverstaff: Twitter needs to DIAF, painfully.  There is nothing of merit there.

As twitter is coming close to making an actual profit - the market thinks otherwise.

/exactly how do you propose killing off services you don't like?
//truly curious


I don't care about profits, I don't give a flying fark about the market.

I'm talking about a platform for harassment, anonymous threats, and foreign manipulation of our political system.  I'm talking about a place where someone can whip up a fake account, tweet that a politician sexually assaulted them, and instantly a dozen "news" sources take it as legitimate, a place where vast botnet armies retweet propaganda designed to put Americans at each others throats by exploiting divisions in our society, and a place where trolls from around the world spend their time doing their best to shiat on constructive discourse.

So yeah, markets and profits aren't worth shiat compared to that.
 
2017-11-18 11:45:08 AM  

Tommy Moo: TedCruz'sCrazyDad: Schlubbe: The problem I see with this shift is that I read my news and information on a tablet with sound muted. I don't or rarely watch video segments to get information.

I suppose I'm an anachronism, but without a total, forced restructuring of my browsing habits, a 'pivot to video' means a loss of my eyeball. Can't imagine I'm the only one with no interest in online video news.

Watching video with sound is impossible at work for 99% of the people in my office.

I can't even stand watching news in video form at home, unless there's a video of an incident that adds to the story. It usually involves me sitting there for three minutes listening to an anchor read something painfully slowly that I could have glazed through in 40 seconds with text.


This.  I can read faster than other people can talk.
 
2017-11-18 11:46:35 AM  
I was running a network of local media websites and finally threw in the towel after three years. Selling ads became incredibly difficult and my big supporters were starting to jump ship.

I work at a tech manufacturing company now.
 
2017-11-18 12:06:19 PM  
I wouldn't pay for most forms of advertising beyond the "we exist" level. I think the only branch of advertising I like is called "native content" wherein the advertisement appears to be content, like a "how it's made" or a cooking lesson that calls for the advertised product. Although I had an idea for who should buy Mattel, and turn the whole toy line into a subtle advertising system, but targeting 🎯 kids is "evil". Not even advertising food or drugs, but someone would still call it evil.
 
2017-11-18 12:09:55 PM  
late 90s it was known blogging as journalism paid for with ads wasn't going to work. I'm surprises it's made it this far honestly.
 
2017-11-18 12:17:25 PM  

chasd00: late 90s it was known blogging as journalism paid for with ads wasn't going to work.


Blogs barely existed in the late 90s and virtually nobody (probably literarlly nobody) was trying to make a living at it.
 
2017-11-18 12:24:31 PM  

jaytkay: We don't need to shovel more money to Amazon and Netflix for infotainment "news" divisions.


Maybe winedrinkingman wasn't suggesting that Amazon and Netflix do infotainment style programs (a la Fox News). I'd argue those brands have a higher rate of consumer trust than either current cable media players or the old-style broadcast networks.

Look forward to a Shadowrun style future, Chummer. This might be the last chance you have to pick a corporate allegiance. Might as well sign yourself over to one you like...
 
2017-11-18 12:43:19 PM  

Silverstaff: gingerjet: Silverstaff: Twitter needs to DIAF, painfully.  There is nothing of merit there.

As twitter is coming close to making an actual profit - the market thinks otherwise.

/exactly how do you propose killing off services you don't like?
//truly curious

I don't care about profits, I don't give a flying fark about the market.

I'm talking about a platform for harassment, anonymous threats, and foreign manipulation of our political system.  I'm talking about a place where someone can whip up a fake account, tweet that a politician sexually assaulted them, and instantly a dozen "news" sources take it as legitimate, a place where vast botnet armies retweet propaganda designed to put Americans at each others throats by exploiting divisions in our society, and a place where trolls from around the world spend their time doing their best to shiat on constructive discourse.

So yeah, markets and profits aren't worth shiat compared to that.


I've gotten a lot of important information through Twitter. Maybe the problem is that you don't know how to use it.
 
2017-11-18 12:58:26 PM  
This is what's going to happen with everybody launching their own streaming service.
 
2017-11-18 01:03:08 PM  

Kirablue42: kab: Online advertising gas an incredibly low connect rate.  If the average remotely savvy user isnt already avoiding them almost entirely via blockers, they certainly arent clicking on any.

Video allows for unblockable advertising, often placed mid-video.  Twitch has already adopted this, with ads running at the start of every feed, which seem unavoidable (unlike Youtube ads).  Spotify of course, does the same thing...easy to undersfand why its being viewed as preferable by advertisers.

Time to return to print. in a big way.


I bought a magazine last week.
 
2017-11-18 01:10:55 PM  
Same problem in music. Never have there been so many talented musicians making so much good music, so the market is saturated. What's the difference between a super talented singer and a large pizza again?
 
2017-11-18 01:14:49 PM  

southernmanblog: Same problem in music. Never have there been so many talented musicians making so much good music, so the market is saturated. What's the difference between a super talented singer and a large pizza again?


A talented singer won't burn the roof of your mout-- oh wait. Was that a rhetorical question?

I bet that was a rhetorical question...
 
2017-11-18 01:21:05 PM  

lennavan: Too many publications, says Talking Points Memo.


...and the editor at TPM is a bit of a bastard.
 
2017-11-18 01:22:43 PM  

Silverstaff: gingerjet: Silverstaff: Twitter needs to DIAF, painfully.  There is nothing of merit there.

As twitter is coming close to making an actual profit - the market thinks otherwise.

/exactly how do you propose killing off services you don't like?
//truly curious

I don't care about profits, I don't give a flying fark about the market.

I'm talking about a platform for harassment, anonymous threats, and foreign manipulation of our political system.  I'm talking about a place where someone can whip up a fake account, tweet that a politician sexually assaulted them, and instantly a dozen "news" sources take it as legitimate, a place where vast botnet armies retweet propaganda designed to put Americans at each others throats by exploiting divisions in our society, and a place where trolls from around the world spend their time doing their best to shiat on constructive discourse.

So yeah, markets and profits aren't worth shiat compared to that.


The problem is the news companies that bring unverified claims to the public light. Need to figure a way to create a quality filter or self policing system. Start sueing news orgs who bring someone out of obscurity to the lime light without basis?
 
2017-11-18 01:38:59 PM  

LoneWolf343: I've gotten a lot of important information through Twitter. Maybe the problem is that you don't know how to use it.


Oh, the important information you get through Twitter. . .

Who or what #45 is ranting about today and what his current insult is for him.
Who the Neo Nazis/Alt-Right are threatening/insulting.
Who anonymous trolls are taunting.
Who botnets are promoting.
What random crap celebrities are saying to keep themselves in the limelight.

I've had a Twitter account for 5 years, and it's been nothing useful.  Trolls, bots, and vapid celebrities. . .and I absolutely positively HATE it's got such a small cap on the number of characters.

140 characters is nowhere near enough to debate or discuss anything of depth or substance, yet people try to treat it as the main public forum of our era.
 
2017-11-18 01:43:11 PM  

wrenchboy: Now I am craving a Heineken. Not even 7 in the morning and I need to go to work still. Damn you subby!


It's 10 am somewhere.
 
2017-11-18 02:08:47 PM  

southernmanblog: Same problem in music. Never have there been so many talented musicians making so much good music, so the market is saturated. What's the difference between a super talented singer and a large pizza again?


I follow app development too. Developers are getting killed because people want to use software that someone sank a year or two of their lives into for $.99.
 
2017-11-18 03:11:34 PM  

Cold soup: I follow app development too. Developers are getting killed because people want to use software that someone sank a year or two of their lives into for $.99.


So? How is it different from any other business? You sink, say, 2 years into your business - ANY business - and statistics say 97% of those businesses go bankrupt. 97% of developers follow the same pattern. No, it's not the problem; it's how it was from the start.
 
2017-11-18 03:30:47 PM  
Am I the only one who read the headline and thought of this?:
media.giphy.comView Full Size
 
2017-11-18 03:52:21 PM  

Schlubbe: I suppose I'm an anachronism


I don't think so - I think we're solidly in the majority here.

The problem is that people begging for venture capital and/or the venture capitalists are convinced that since JoeAidenJaidenBradenCaiden Millenial likes to goof off watching videos on youtube from time to time, it must mean The Internet is now TV and therefore everything has to be video, and they're desperately pushing hard to be Internet TV for everything, despite the fact that most people on the internet are still at least semi-literate and don't want video for everything.
 
2017-11-18 03:54:44 PM  
Fark has tried pivoting to video twice (two and a half times?), and we all saw how that turned out.
 
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