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(Washington Post)   Stories of women who were sexually harassed at work, reported it, and had to deal with the aftermath. There should be no retaliation for reporting harassment, but if HR and management don't step up, the system fails   ( washingtonpost.com) divider line
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1211 clicks; posted to Business » on 17 Nov 2017 at 11:20 AM (35 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2017-11-17 09:31:23 AM  
Obvious tag been tired for being groped by the unlikely tag?
 
2017-11-17 09:50:06 AM  
God, that was depressing to read.  Should be required reading for anyone who says "but why didn't they report it?"
 
2017-11-17 10:57:47 AM  
I know of a guy fired (allowed to retire - which is another slap in the face right there) after harassing a woman the very day he returned from a two week suspension for trying to kiss her.

Turns out he's been doing shiat like that for decades.
 
2017-11-17 11:09:52 AM  
While a lot of those stories are horrible, the problem I have is that harassment differs from person to person. Some people think overhearing someone telling a dirty joke to someone else is harassment, while others think Viagra or "get a bigger d**k" emails getting through the spam filter is harassment. There have been stories of people complaining because a guy had a bikini pic of his wife at his desk. Or repeating a joke a guy heard on "Seinfeld".

And the biggest one is that the only difference between flirting and harassment is whether you are attracted to that person or not.

All these things work towards diminishing the legitimate cases of sexual (and other types of) harassment.
 
2017-11-17 11:21:35 AM  
When will people learn that HR is there to protect the company, not you.
 
2017-11-17 11:33:24 AM  

Uncle Eazy: While a lot of those stories are horrible, the problem I have is that harassment differs from person to person. Some people think overhearing someone telling a dirty joke to someone else is harassment, while others think Viagra or "get a bigger d**k" emails getting through the spam filter is harassment. There have been stories of people complaining because a guy had a bikini pic of his wife at his desk. Or repeating a joke a guy heard on "Seinfeld".

And the biggest one is that the only difference between flirting and harassment is whether you are attracted to that person or not.

All these things work towards diminishing the legitimate cases of sexual (and other types of) harassment.


Are you for real?
 
2017-11-17 11:34:27 AM  
Yeah, companies make a big PR deal out of how well HR will protect you if you speak up.
But reality is different than those Flash-based training courses.

Perhaps it's time for companies to actually follow suit with the protections that they promise.
 
2017-11-17 11:38:49 AM  
Of course it failed. Would you all like to hear some stories about things that happened to me when I got all up in certain men's faces? Haha, LOL no, let's not do that.

But I'm nobody's victim.
 
2017-11-17 11:40:00 AM  
I worked somewhere that the CEO was walked out for harassment. The stupid thing was that he was habitually harassing our legal counsel, who of course had thorough detailing of every instance, including time, place and situation. I don't know how someone capable of that level of stupidity reaches CEO of a mid-level, but there you are.
 
2017-11-17 11:48:32 AM  

mrsleep: When will people learn that HR is there to protect the company, not you.


When will people learn that corporations want to gut workplace protections so the only recourse employees will have is HR?
 
2017-11-17 12:06:42 PM  
Try being in HR and being harassed by someone at the Corporate level for several years and not feeling confident that reporting the behavior would not somehow roll back on me afterwards.

That sucked and it will never happen again.  I was young and gullible and did not want to hurt my career by drawing that kind of attention to myself.
 
2017-11-17 12:10:14 PM  

Shazam999: Uncle Eazy: While a lot of those stories are horrible, the problem I have is that harassment differs from person to person. Some people think overhearing someone telling a dirty joke to someone else is harassment, while others think Viagra or "get a bigger d**k" emails getting through the spam filter is harassment. There have been stories of people complaining because a guy had a bikini pic of his wife at his desk. Or repeating a joke a guy heard on "Seinfeld".

And the biggest one is that the only difference between flirting and harassment is whether you are attracted to that person or not.

All these things work towards diminishing the legitimate cases of sexual (and other types of) harassment.

Are you for real?


Sure. What did I say that was wrong or unbelievable?
 
2017-11-17 12:13:18 PM  
Our regional boss was harassing a lot of women in the region and being an extra sleazy creep about it. Some of the ladies in my office told me about it and it just made me mad and made me want to punch that toothless cokehead. Most of them were afraid to come forward because of who he was and some let him because he was paying their phone bills.
He finally farked up big time when he got drunk at a work function and tried to hook up with a sales rep that was a favorite of the CEO, she was on the Bachelor. He was being a creep to her at the event and the rest of the night sending her suggestive texts and voicemails. After that he was "sick" for three days then fired.
He tried to sue for wrongful termination and lost when they showed up with the texts and voicemails. He is a pastor now, so god knows what kinda creepy shiat he is into.
 
2017-11-17 12:22:31 PM  

mrsleep: When will people learn that HR is there to protect the company, not you.


This.  I was hospitalized and nearly died during the winter break at a previous job.  When I returned to work, my supervisor kept suggesting I should "go home" and continue to take leave.  Not only did she refuse to follow the proper procedure around an employee with disability/access issues, she wasn't even aware I was legally entitled to accommodations because of my condition.  After taking it to HR, it dragged on for two months with no resolution in sight, just constant "mediation sessions" where my supervisor acted nice until the HR rep was gone.  Meanwhile I start getting officially disciplined for ticky tack bullshiat.  I finally got another job and got the hell out of there but sometimes I still feel how horrible that 6 months was.  I may have been able to sue but since a lot of the worst things my supervisor did were said verbally and the HR person circled the wagons, I just gave up.  I was still getting chemo and on powerful medications to keep myself from croaking and the fight just wasn't worth it.  I just wanted to move on.

While this isn't even in the same ballpark as sexual harassment I came to understand how useless HR is and how few options women really had.  I had a certifiable medical condition with a doctors note and a genetic test so the fact that I was disabled wasn't remotely in question.  I may have had an inkling that HR was not all it was cracked up to be before but what I've experienced educated me in a way I don't think listening ever could.  Support strong workplace protections people, corporations/companies are not interested in justice enough to do it themselves.
 
2017-11-17 12:35:06 PM  

edmo: I know of a guy fired (allowed to retire - which is another slap in the face right there) after harassing a woman the very day he returned from a two week suspension for trying to kiss her.

Turns out he's been doing shiat like that for decades.


These guys are almost always habitual offenders.  Cosby, Louis CK, Moore, Weinstein, etc.  All of them had LONG histories.  People who do this shiat don't just do it once.  Either people know it's not OK (and don't desire to do it) and never harass anyone, or they're habitual about it.
 
2017-11-17 12:42:11 PM  

Uncle Eazy: Shazam999: Uncle Eazy: While a lot of those stories are horrible, the problem I have is that harassment differs from person to person. Some people think overhearing someone telling a dirty joke to someone else is harassment, while others think Viagra or "get a bigger d**k" emails getting through the spam filter is harassment. There have been stories of people complaining because a guy had a bikini pic of his wife at his desk. Or repeating a joke a guy heard on "Seinfeld".

And the biggest one is that the only difference between flirting and harassment is whether you are attracted to that person or not.

All these things work towards diminishing the legitimate cases of sexual (and other types of) harassment.

Are you for real?

Sure. What did I say that was wrong or unbelievable?


I think may the part about sexual harassment being boiled down to attraction. Other than that you had a point until that part.
 
2017-11-17 12:48:20 PM  

goat012006: Uncle Eazy: Shazam999: Uncle Eazy: While a lot of those stories are horrible, the problem I have is that harassment differs from person to person. Some people think overhearing someone telling a dirty joke to someone else is harassment, while others think Viagra or "get a bigger d**k" emails getting through the spam filter is harassment. There have been stories of people complaining because a guy had a bikini pic of his wife at his desk. Or repeating a joke a guy heard on "Seinfeld".

And the biggest one is that the only difference between flirting and harassment is whether you are attracted to that person or not.

All these things work towards diminishing the legitimate cases of sexual (and other types of) harassment.

Are you for real?

Sure. What did I say that was wrong or unbelievable?

I think may the part about sexual harassment being boiled down to attraction. Other than that you had a point until that part.


Part of the issue is that it's hard to just say "knock it off" without being ostracized. No one wants to be the office buzzkill.

Although, recently, "I'm going to hug you like Roy Moore does" seems to get the point across to the offenders.
 
2017-11-17 12:53:55 PM  

Shazam999: Uncle Eazy: While a lot of those stories are horrible, the problem I have is that harassment
Are you for real?


The funny thing is people nearly always have an audio recording device on their person (well video as well, but a concealed microphone is trivial, works fine, and is effectively undetectable).  My guess is that obviously plenty of women have the real deal on audio and still can't get anywhere.  It should be blindingly obvious when your are in a situation where you turn the recorder on when you are in the parking lot and download it to your computer overnight.
/suspects that groping increases
//and other non-audible harassment
///hopefully at least the full sociopaths/psychopaths will have trouble avoiding being caught
 
2017-11-17 12:54:42 PM  

Uncle Eazy: While a lot of those stories are horrible, the problem I have is that harassment differs from person to person. Some people think overhearing someone telling a dirty joke to someone else is harassment, while others think Viagra or "get a bigger d**k" emails getting through the spam filter is harassment. There have been stories of people complaining because a guy had a bikini pic of his wife at his desk. Or repeating a joke a guy heard on "Seinfeld".

And the biggest one is that the only difference between flirting and harassment is whether you are attracted to that person or not.

All these things work towards diminishing the legitimate cases of sexual (and other types of) harassment.


That really isn't true.  Because while the first move may be flirting, it becomes sexual harassment when the "flirting" continues but isn't reciprocated.  Or, when people (usually men) jump straight from relatively polite conversation to something WAY past flirting, like groping, or conversation that might be OK during sex, but isn't ok in the office and isn't OK when you aren't even dating.
 
2017-11-17 12:59:02 PM  

Uncle Eazy: While a lot of those stories are horrible, the problem I have is that harassment differs from person to person. Some people think overhearing someone telling a dirty joke to someone else is harassment, while others think Viagra or "get a bigger d**k" emails getting through the spam filter is harassment. There have been stories of people complaining because a guy had a bikini pic of his wife at his desk. Or repeating a joke a guy heard on "Seinfeld".

And the biggest one is that the only difference between flirting and harassment is whether you are attracted to that person or not.

All these things work towards diminishing the legitimate cases of sexual (and other types of) harassment.


I was victim of a spurious "Sexual Harassment" complaint at work once.

I was in a cubicle job, and I would sit at my desk all day.  My dress shirt would slowly ride up through the day, and a couple of times a day I'd just tuck it back in, pushing the shirt that was gradually riding up back under my belt.

I didn't unbutton my pants, I didn't expose myself to anyone, I didn't draw any attention to myself or say anything, I just quietly pushed my shirt back in for a few seconds two or three times a day. . .but a female co-worker in a cubicle across the aisle (that I'd never talked to before, in that she'd ignored the times I'd just tried to make polite small-talk) apparently felt this was sexually harassing her because she could see it, and she filed a complaint against me.

My supervisor officially cautioned me about it, as was policy, but even my supervisor admitted it was a spurious complaint and just advised me to go to the restroom any time I needed to correct my shirt riding up.  If my Supervisor didn't have my back on that, it could have been very bad for me.
 
2017-11-17 01:00:15 PM  

Uncle Eazy: While a lot of those stories are horrible, the problem I have is that harassment differs from person to person. Some people think overhearing someone telling a dirty joke to someone else is harassment, while others think Viagra or "get a bigger d**k" emails getting through the spam filter is harassment. There have been stories of people complaining because a guy had a bikini pic of his wife at his desk. Or repeating a joke a guy heard on "Seinfeld".

And the biggest one is that the only difference between flirting and harassment is whether you are attracted to that person or not.

All these things work towards diminishing the legitimate cases of sexual (and other types of) harassment.


The what now?

No. Just no. You are wrong. Wrong. Wrong and I hope that no one you know and love is ever harassed, so they won't have to deal with people like you.
 
2017-11-17 01:09:12 PM  
A few years ago I was working at a place that had a well-deserved reputation as being a hostile workplace. Not just for women, for just about everyone - you couldn't be a human being without being treated like dirt on a regular basis. Women, disabilities, younger, older, middle-aged, smart, not-so-smart, too good looking, not good looking enough, too tall, too short, too heavy, too skinny, whatever: you were getting grief. It was so bad that if you didn't give other people grief you actually got grief for that (this was a big part of why I left - I can be a hardass manager when I have to press to get work done, but I'm not going to be a jerk to someone just to fit into a jerk culture).

Well, realizing the company had a problem the geniuses in HR sent out a very carefully worded anonymous survey asking people their feelings on some members of the senior management (really anonymous, not pinky-swear anonymous but actually has tracking codes and whatnot so they know who responded with what). Of course someone used it as an opportunity to document things that had happened in enough detail that it couldn't be overlooked, but vague enough that, since the survey was anonymous, no one knew who submitted it.

So, how does the company respond? Take a long hard look at what needs to be done to change the corporate culture? Do an investigation of any and all likely victims and conduct interviews? "Sensitivity training" for senior managers or something like that? Nope... they knew how bad it was, they just didn't want to know the details, so...


No more anonymous surveys.


/Don't miss them one bit, almost laughed when they asked me to come back.
 
2017-11-17 01:10:46 PM  
When I was a junior techie, nearly 20 years ago, I was on a service call when the sales manager pulled my shirt up trying to look at my back tattoo, and then try to undo my bra. I was the one written up for making a scene and causing trouble; my manager threw me under the bus, as the dude was really great at bringing in the sales. Only time I have ever been written up in my entire career.
 
2017-11-17 01:18:34 PM  

Uncle Eazy: While a lot of those stories are horrible, the problem I have is that harassment differs from person to person. Some people think overhearing someone telling a dirty joke to someone else is harassment, while others think Viagra or "get a bigger d**k" emails getting through the spam filter is harassment.


As a former IT guy who very narrowly escaped serious consequences over precisely that issue...THIS.  She literally screamed out "THERE'S PORN ON MY COMPUTER!" in the middle of a cube farm of a couple dozen CSRs, half of whom were on the phone at the time...
 
2017-11-17 01:24:29 PM  
Two days ago I was at a conference table and the leader of a small company was proudly stating that "while there used to be a boys club attitude, that was no longer the case and everything is perfect now." This was actually in response to an incident of sexual harassment that had recently occurred and been "managed."

I looked around the table which was entirely men, and asked "Is this what the women are telling you?"

The subject was changed and the meeting went on. It's tough to work with people who are that clueless.
 
2017-11-17 01:27:58 PM  
Just to reiterate what others have pointed out : HR is not your friend.
 
2017-11-17 01:41:05 PM  

Silverstaff: My supervisor officially cautioned me about it, as was policy, but even my supervisor admitted it was a spurious complaint and just advised me to go to the restroom any time I needed to correct my shirt riding up.  If my Supervisor didn't have my back on that, it could have been very bad for me.


"OMG he keeps going to the bathroom with his shirt hanging out!"
 
2017-11-17 01:47:53 PM  
Even the head of this company didn't care when his staff was harassing a reporter from a rival UHF television station.

img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2017-11-17 01:49:06 PM  
Developing a plan at work right now so I'm getting a kick....

Any of you HR wiseacres have a hot tip on a library of training materials? 100 person company - blue collar/white collar mix...
 
2017-11-17 01:54:35 PM  
There really should be a new theme day, like, "Bring Mike Tyson to Work Today to Beat Up the HR Department."  I've encountered only one in my entire employment history that didn't suck.
 
2017-11-17 01:55:51 PM  
HR works for management too.  So go figure out for yourself how that will turn out.
 
2017-11-17 01:58:31 PM  

Uncle Eazy: While a lot of those stories are horrible, the problem I have is that harassment differs from person to person. Some people think overhearing someone telling a dirty joke to someone else is harassment, while others think Viagra or "get a bigger d**k" emails getting through the spam filter is harassment. There have been stories of people complaining because a guy had a bikini pic of his wife at his desk. Or repeating a joke a guy heard on "Seinfeld".

And the biggest one is that the only difference between flirting and harassment is whether you are attracted to that person or not.

All these things work towards diminishing the legitimate cases of sexual (and other types of) harassment.


The legal standard of harassment doesn't vary from person to person (and only slightly from district to district).

Just because Shannon thinks being asked out for coffee is harassment doesn't make it actually harassment.

Likewise, just because Jim laughed at Bob's dirty joke doesn't mean it's now ok to say in the workplace.
 
2017-11-17 02:00:04 PM  
The job of HR is to protect the company, not you.
 
2017-11-17 02:07:26 PM  

JohnBigBootay: Developing a plan at work right now so I'm getting a kick....

Any of you HR wiseacres have a hot tip on a library of training materials? 100 person company - blue collar/white collar mix...


Playboy, before the recent de-vamped re-vamp.
 
2017-11-17 02:13:09 PM  
What I truly, really don't get is how "dirty jokes" NOT pointed out at you became harassment. It's an American thing or what?

Very foreign for local culture. Telling a "dirty" joke to a woman who hadn't agreed to such behavior - bad because it could be seen as you trying to use in as unwanted opening. A dirty joke Jim said to Bob, not pointed at her, she just overheard? Yeah, fark off, lady, mind your own damn business. Not harassment, in my point of view.
 
2017-11-17 02:22:51 PM  

Grahor: What I truly, really don't get is how "dirty jokes" NOT pointed out at you became harassment. It's an American thing or what?

Very foreign for local culture. Telling a "dirty" joke to a woman who hadn't agreed to such behavior - bad because it could be seen as you trying to use in as unwanted opening. A dirty joke Jim said to Bob, not pointed at her, she just overheard? Yeah, fark off, lady, mind your own damn business. Not harassment, in my point of view.


Third party harassment is a thing.

Racial jokes between to white guys overheard by a black guy? Hell yes that is harassment. Same goes for dirty jokes, and anyone in earshot.

It's an office, not your house.
 
2017-11-17 02:32:44 PM  

Grahor: What I truly, really don't get is how "dirty jokes" NOT pointed out at you became harassment. It's an American thing or what?

Very foreign for local culture. Telling a "dirty" joke to a woman who hadn't agreed to such behavior - bad because it could be seen as you trying to use in as unwanted opening. A dirty joke Jim said to Bob, not pointed at her, she just overheard? Yeah, fark off, lady, mind your own damn business. Not harassment, in my point of view.


So, it's weird but in the US we feel that people should feel comfortable when they go to to work. I know, silly.
 
2017-11-17 02:37:15 PM  

the_innkeeper: Racial jokes between to white guys overheard by a black guy? Hell yes that is harassment. Same goes for dirty jokes, and anyone in earshot.


Hm. I can understand a joke denigrating women being a harassment, same as with black people or jews or Belgians or whatever. But "dirty joke" is not that, is it? Or I don't understand what "dirty joke" means.
 
2017-11-17 02:44:25 PM  

meanmutton: So, it's weird but in the US we feel that people should feel comfortable when they go to to work. I know, silly.


Silly indeed. What if a person feels uncomfortable because you have your "MAGA!" hat on? Che Guevara shirt? Because you are farking obese?

Do you have a dresscode? Are there different grades of "uncomfortable"?

Yep, silly. But hey, it's your country and your mores and your behavioral patterns. Go at it!
 
2017-11-17 03:03:16 PM  

Grahor: the_innkeeper: Racial jokes between to white guys overheard by a black guy? Hell yes that is harassment. Same goes for dirty jokes, and anyone in earshot.

Hm. I can understand a joke denigrating women being a harassment, same as with black people or jews or Belgians or whatever. But "dirty joke" is not that, is it? Or I don't understand what "dirty joke" means.


Dirty jokes, off color jokes, etc can include "jokes that denigrate women".

There can be a fine line. With that, why worry about irritating people you work with? Save the jokes for the bar or your patio. It's just easier to keep it professional than worry about where each person's line is.
 
2017-11-17 03:05:27 PM  

dartben: Uncle Eazy: While a lot of those stories are horrible, the problem I have is that harassment differs from person to person. Some people think overhearing someone telling a dirty joke to someone else is harassment, while others think Viagra or "get a bigger d**k" emails getting through the spam filter is harassment. There have been stories of people complaining because a guy had a bikini pic of his wife at his desk. Or repeating a joke a guy heard on "Seinfeld".

And the biggest one is that the only difference between flirting and harassment is whether you are attracted to that person or not.

All these things work towards diminishing the legitimate cases of sexual (and other types of) harassment.

The legal standard of harassment doesn't vary from person to person (and only slightly from district to district).

Just because Shannon thinks being asked out for coffee is harassment doesn't make it actually harassment.

Likewise, just because Jim laughed at Bob's dirty joke doesn't mean it's now ok to say in the workplace.


That. And honestly, it's very, very difficult to win a harassment lawsuit without an extensive chain of documented behavior that is outrageous enough to make an entire jury lose their shiat.

But what's easy is what this article talks about - winning a lawsuit over retaliation. Someone files a complaint, and suddenly their hours get cut, or they get a bad review for the first time ever, or, worse, their position is suddenly "eliminated" a week later? Better start writing checks, and they better have a lot of zeroes.
 
2017-11-17 03:10:06 PM  

Grahor: What I truly, really don't get is how "dirty jokes" NOT pointed out at you became harassment. It's an American thing or what?

Very foreign for local culture. Telling a "dirty" joke to a woman who hadn't agreed to such behavior - bad because it could be seen as you trying to use in as unwanted opening. A dirty joke Jim said to Bob, not pointed at her, she just overheard? Yeah, fark off, lady, mind your own damn business. Not harassment, in my point of view.


Say Jim and Bob constantly tell dirty jokes right next to Marsha's desk. She's asked them to stop, and they've said "fark off, lady, mind your damn business," and then tell each other a "joke" about the biatch that was always sticking her nose in other people's business and how she got what was coming to her.
Still want to say it's not harassment?

Saying, "I'm not directing this at you, I just purposely do it around you knowing that you'll overhear and feel uncomfortable" is not going to convince anyone.
 
2017-11-17 03:14:26 PM  

the_innkeeper: There can be a fine line. With that, why worry about irritating people you work with?


I don't know. I think a woman who would consider me telling a dirty joke "harassment" hates my guts anyway (because, obviously, I would be objectionable to her in many other small ways) and I'm not going to make things any worse.

But, on the other hand, I hate working with people in one room. I think I've worked in a cubicle for, what, 2 years of my life? I've spent most of my career trying very hard to not work among others, so who am I to even have an opinion.
 
2017-11-17 03:20:51 PM  

Theaetetus: and then tell each other a "joke" about the biatch that was always sticking her nose in other people's business and how she got what was coming to her.
Still want to say it's not harassment?


I'm not sure if it's harassment (it certainly isn't sexual harassment) or not but it's definitely a hostile environment they are creating (the moment they say things related to a current situation it stops being just an overheard conversation and turns into a deliberate hostile action) and sure as hell it should be resolved. There are many ways to resolve it - say, to move them to other parts of the building, where the won't be conflicting with people, to separate them - there is no point in spending valuable working time telling jokes - or by moving Martha to, say, a separate/personal office.

And, of course, if people create hostile situations habitually they either have to go or, if they are that necessary for a company, separated into an isolated space where they can't offend anyone.
 
2017-11-17 03:29:31 PM  

Grahor: the_innkeeper: Racial jokes between to white guys overheard by a black guy? Hell yes that is harassment. Same goes for dirty jokes, and anyone in earshot.

Hm. I can understand a joke denigrating women being a harassment, same as with black people or jews or Belgians or whatever. But "dirty joke" is not that, is it? Or I don't understand what "dirty joke" means.


Q: How do you recognize a Belgian pirate?

A: He's wearing two eye patches.
 
2017-11-17 03:41:30 PM  

Satan's Bunny Slippers: Uncle Eazy: While a lot of those stories are horrible, the problem I have is that harassment differs from person to person. Some people think overhearing someone telling a dirty joke to someone else is harassment, while others think Viagra or "get a bigger d**k" emails getting through the spam filter is harassment. There have been stories of people complaining because a guy had a bikini pic of his wife at his desk. Or repeating a joke a guy heard on "Seinfeld".

And the biggest one is that the only difference between flirting and harassment is whether you are attracted to that person or not.

All these things work towards diminishing the legitimate cases of sexual (and other types of) harassment.

The what now?

No. Just no. You are wrong. Wrong. Wrong and I hope that no one you know and love is ever harassed, so they won't have to deal with people like you.


Nothing I said is wrong. Harassment is very relative. What's disgusting to one person is nothing to a second. And, BTW, I'm not talking about blatant harassment. I'm talking about hyper-sensitive people who run to HR for perceived harassment. I've been on the accused harasser side before. It was ludicrous.

The girl in accounting was showing me something on her monitor, I leaned over her, keeping my hands behind my back, to look. Weeks later HR said she accused me of rubbing my junk on her shoulder. Even they thought it was a baseless claim because nothing came of it.

Heck saying the f-word could be considered sexual harassment.
 
2017-11-17 03:45:43 PM  

Grahor: Theaetetus: and then tell each other a "joke" about the biatch that was always sticking her nose in other people's business and how she got what was coming to her.
Still want to say it's not harassment?

I'm not sure if it's harassment (it certainly isn't sexual harassment) or not but it's definitely a hostile environment they are creating (the moment they say things related to a current situation it stops being just an overheard conversation and turns into a deliberate hostile action) and sure as hell it should be resolved. There are many ways to resolve it - say, to move them to other parts of the building, where the won't be conflicting with people, to separate them - there is no point in spending valuable working time telling jokes - or by moving Martha to, say, a separate/personal office.

And, of course, if people create hostile situations habitually they either have to go or, if they are that necessary for a company, separated into an isolated space where they can't offend anyone.


Most harassment is about creating a hostile environment. Sexual harassment is just one way of doing that. It really doesn't tend to be "obtuse guy hits on women badly," and that wouldn't be enough to support a complaint anyway.
 
2017-11-17 04:02:54 PM  

durbnpoisn: Yeah, companies make a big PR deal out of how well HR will protect you if you speak up.
But reality is different than those Flash-based training courses.

Perhaps it's time for companies to actually follow suit with the protections that they promise.


Our sexual harassment training course changed this year.

It no longer takes the "HR will make it better!" line.
It actually gets a bit victimblamey at points.
It pushes the "intent matters more than how the recipient takes it" line vigorously.

Naturally, all the farkwit old boys I work with loved it.
 
2017-11-17 04:08:17 PM  
Having been young, stupid and believed HR (I did say stupid), I soon discovered "Report any workplace issues to HR" is management-speak for "Find the complainers and get them on a watch list"
 
2017-11-17 04:24:58 PM  

nurdgrrl: When I was a junior techie, nearly 20 years ago, I was on a service call when the sales manager pulled my shirt up trying to look at my back tattoo, and then try to undo my bra. I was the one written up for making a scene and causing trouble; my manager threw me under the bus, as the dude was really great at bringing in the sales. Only time I have ever been written up in my entire career.


This is where you get one of your less reputable cousins or uncles/family involved.  Have them have a talk with the offender.
 
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