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(Reuters)   You know what would be a good idea? A digital pill that reports when you take it to your doctor, said no one, ever. Oh, except Big Pharma. They love the idea   ( uk.reuters.com) divider line
    More: Facepalm, Pharmacology, digital pill, Proteus Digital Health, unlisted Californian company, dementia-related psychosis, complicated medicine routines, Medicine, Pharmaceutical drug  
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2679 clicks; posted to Main » on 14 Nov 2017 at 10:38 AM (35 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2017-11-14 09:39:08 AM  
Why would you take a digital pill to your doctor?
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2017-11-14 09:45:26 AM  
Bipolar people are notorious for not taking medicine.
 
2017-11-14 09:45:36 AM  
Nothing could go wrong with this idea, ever.
 
2017-11-14 09:46:53 AM  
img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2017-11-14 10:13:49 AM  
If it's a blue pill, they already know.
 
2017-11-14 10:43:27 AM  
Care plan compliance is actually one of the greatest determiners of patient outcomes.
 
2017-11-14 10:48:26 AM  

Enigmamf: Care plan compliance is actually one of the greatest determiners of patient outcomes.


Yep.  And lots of older patients could benefit from smarter pills.
 
2017-11-14 10:49:19 AM  
medicalfuturist.comView Full Size


been there, done that.
 
2017-11-14 10:51:48 AM  

colinspooky: Why would you take a digital pill to your doctor?

Oh, no, don't go starting that digital pill vs. analog pill thing again, Martha.
 
2017-11-14 10:52:08 AM  
Are they going to offer digital methadone also?
 
2017-11-14 10:52:39 AM  
That's brilliant and terrible. Patients never take their meds on time.
Privacy is obsolete.

/in THX 1138 he was arrested for "Drug Evasion" right?
 
2017-11-14 10:53:45 AM  
Uh, any doctor, anywhere, would kill for something like this, if it was reliable and cheap.

Patient goes to doc, doc prescribes medicine, two weeks later patient is back, still sick.
a) meds aren't working, maybe diagnosis is wrong
b) meds aren't sufficient, try a larger dose
c) patient forgot to take meds all week, give them a good scolding and/or sign them up for some kind of reminder service
d) patient sold the drugs on the black market

This is a big deal for elderly patients, who take lots of meds and often forget what they're supposed to take.

Trying this in schizophrenics and bipolar people is also a very good idea.  From time to time they'll decide to stop taking their meds, and won't tell anybody.  It can take a few weeks for the symptoms to be obvious, and by that point things tend to get bad - they won't listen to anybody, so the only "treatment" is to wait until they're a clear danger to themselves or others and can be locked up involuntarily, at great expense.  Meanwhile the patient will have completely trashed his career and relationships and may need years to get back to a position of relative self-sufficiency.
  However, it might not work.  This population includes some clever and paranoid people.  Getting the pill to report that it's been swallowed can't be too difficult.
 
2017-11-14 10:55:20 AM  

vpb: Bipolar people are notorious for not taking medicine.


They're not the only ones. People don't take their medicine for a number of reasons: financial, distaste for side effects, or even 'intelligent nonadherence' (i.e. the patient figuring out that the medicine does more harm than good for them, specifically).
 
2017-11-14 10:55:28 AM  
I worked for Proteus a couple of years ago. For Alzheimers and clinical trial patients, this product is a blessing. I'm still concerned about privacy implications for other use cases.
 
2017-11-14 10:55:37 AM  
Hey doc.  Harry just took his Abilify.  Yep.  I'm down here in his gut.  Looking around.  You know how Harry said he was managing his diabetes by limiting his sugar intake?  Yeah.  I'm not seeing that down here, doc.  There's the remains of two donuts and a chocolate bar.  That's the fresh stuff.  I'm sitting on a bunch of fried potatoes.  That should be in his diet either, know what I mean?

Be sure to tell Harry about the ulcer from his drinking.  Look like a big red star gate ready to pop.  Well, looks like I'm heading in to the intestines, or polyptown as I call 'em.  I'll call you again when I hit the toilet.  Abilify out.
 
2017-11-14 10:55:50 AM  
We left 1984. What's wrong?
2004 - THX 1138 - Re-Released Trailer - Whats Wrong - George Lucas
Youtube I0olK2qyoVA
 
2017-11-14 10:57:30 AM  
I think telling someone with schizophrenia that there is a small monitoring device in their medicine is a great way to get them to take it.
 
2017-11-14 10:57:54 AM  

brainlordmesomorph: That's brilliant and terrible. Patients never take their meds on time.
Privacy is obsolete.


The makers of one of my cardiac meds used to send me emails when they thought I hadn't refilled my script in a timely fashion.  Creepy.  I told them to fark off and stop bothering me.
 
2017-11-14 10:58:44 AM  
How can I make a pill that cost $0.17 instead cost $20? We can put a computer in it!? Great.
 
2017-11-14 10:59:03 AM  
I know of a camera pill, so assess GI Tract. Probably grossest movie ever.
 
2017-11-14 11:00:02 AM  
So let's say you have a brother who suffers from schizophrenia/bipolar disorder.  He's lost his job/family/everything he owns in the last few years because, on occasion, he stop taking his medication regularly.  You let him stay in the spare bedroom because you don't want him to be homeless on the streets, but you're concerned he could stop taking his medication again.  He's completely fine 99% of the time when he is taking it, but even still when that 1% happens (as it inevitably does) and he stops taking the pills he spirals out of control.  You now have a way to know whether or not he is taking the meds like he's supposed to.  If he misses one you know immediately, rather than finding out days/weeks down the road when he's far gone enough that it's now a crisis situation.  You have the opportunity, while he can still be reasoned with, to get him to resume his medication.

Is this a bad thing?
 
2017-11-14 11:00:05 AM  
I could actually use something like this.  A lot of my medications are very time dependent, and despite several alarms on my phone and using a pharmacy that breaks my prescriptions up by the day and hour I often miss doses.  This is part general forgetfulness and part of the disease I'm struggling with.

The privacy risks can't be casually dismissed however.
 
2017-11-14 11:00:30 AM  

Harry Freakstorm: Hey doc.  Harry just took his Abilify.  Yep.  I'm down here in his gut.  Looking around.  You know how Harry said he was managing his diabetes by limiting his sugar intake?  Yeah.  I'm not seeing that down here, doc.  There's the remains of two donuts and a chocolate bar.  That's the fresh stuff.  I'm sitting on a bunch of fried potatoes.  That should be in his diet either, know what I mean?

Be sure to tell Harry about the ulcer from his drinking.  Look like a big red star gate ready to pop.  Well, looks like I'm heading in to the intestines, or polyptown as I call 'em.  I'll call you again when I hit the toilet.  Abilify out.


First thing I thought of, too.  Now we will crap electronics.
 
2017-11-14 11:01:18 AM  
which then transmits the information to a mobile application so that patients can track the ingestion of the medication on their smartphone.

Of course it does. There's always a smartphone app in the plan somewhere.
 
2017-11-14 11:01:24 AM  

nartreb: Uh, any doctor, anywhere, would kill for something like this, if it was reliable and cheap.

Patient goes to doc, doc prescribes medicine, two weeks later patient is back, still sick.
a) meds aren't working, maybe diagnosis is wrong
b) meds aren't sufficient, try a larger dose
c) patient forgot to take meds all week, give them a good scolding and/or sign them up for some kind of reminder service
d) patient sold the drugs on the black market

This is a big deal for elderly patients, who take lots of meds and often forget what they're supposed to take.

Trying this in schizophrenics and bipolar people is also a very good idea.  From time to time they'll decide to stop taking their meds, and won't tell anybody.  It can take a few weeks for the symptoms to be obvious, and by that point things tend to get bad - they won't listen to anybody, so the only "treatment" is to wait until they're a clear danger to themselves or others and can be locked up involuntarily, at great expense.  Meanwhile the patient will have completely trashed his career and relationships and may need years to get back to a position of relative self-sufficiency.
  However, it might not work.  This population includes some clever and paranoid people.  Getting the pill to report that it's been swallowed can't be too difficult.


FTA: About the size of a grain of salt, the sensor has no battery or antenna and is activated when it gets wet from stomach juices. That completes a circuit between coatings of copper and magnesium on either side, generating a tiny electric charge.

Sounds like you could crush it and drop in lemon juice vinegar. If they wanted to sell or take a bunch of pills at once (if it were opiates), they could boil it off and collect the residue.
 
2017-11-14 11:02:28 AM  

LaChanz: Are they going to offer digital methadone also?


I know you're joking, but for narcotics doctors really do random 'pill count' days where the patient is required to come back to the doctor with the pills they're supposed to have remaining, to show that they've been taking them as directed and not selling them or otherwise diverting them.  Supposedly in some places you can straight up be arrested for not having the proper amount, but usually they just cut you off and write in your file that you're a junkie and never again to receive narcotics.

What they'd enjoy more out of a 'smart pill' is the ability for them to go inert after a certain amount of time, because we haven't turned ALL of the junkies onto heroin yet, so we need to work on making legal opioids even more of a pain in the ass to use (for any purpose, not just for recreation).
 
2017-11-14 11:02:56 AM  

HotWingConspiracy: I think telling someone with schizophrenia that there is a small monitoring device in their medicine is a great way to get them to take it.


Came here to say this.  I think it might be actively harmful to try this with a schizophrenic.  They could easily become suspicious off all medication.
 
2017-11-14 11:04:13 AM  

SomeAmerican: Enigmamf: Care plan compliance is actually one of the greatest determiners of patient outcomes.

Yep.  And lots of older patients could benefit from smarter pills.


This.  Would have been a nice thing to know when my dad would accidentally take his night pills (including ambien) in the morning before he'd go to town to get the mail.

He fell asleep at a stop light on more than one morning.
 
2017-11-14 11:07:53 AM  

vpb: Bipolar people are notorious for not taking medicine.


This, it's for people with mental disorders who often have trouble not complying with their medical needs.  it would let the doctor know if the patient is actually taking his medicine, or if intervention was needed.  It could also, in cases with daily caregivers, help caregivers keep track on rather or not the patient was taking their pills.
 
2017-11-14 11:11:06 AM  
Is The Government Spying On Schizophrenics Enough?
Youtube FzoXQKumgCw
 
2017-11-14 11:12:26 AM  

nartreb: Uh, any doctor, anywhere, would kill for something like this, if it was reliable and cheap.

Patient goes to doc, doc prescribes medicine, two weeks later patient is back, still sick.
a) meds aren't working, maybe diagnosis is wrong
b) meds aren't sufficient, try a larger dose
c) patient forgot to take meds all week, give them a good scolding and/or sign them up for some kind of reminder service
d) patient sold the drugs on the black market

This is a big deal for elderly patients, who take lots of meds and often forget what they're supposed to take.

Trying this in schizophrenics and bipolar people is also a very good idea.  From time to time they'll decide to stop taking their meds, and won't tell anybody.  It can take a few weeks for the symptoms to be obvious, and by that point things tend to get bad - they won't listen to anybody, so the only "treatment" is to wait until they're a clear danger to themselves or others and can be locked up involuntarily, at great expense.  Meanwhile the patient will have completely trashed his career and relationships and may need years to get back to a position of relative self-sufficiency.
  However, it might not work.  This population includes some clever and paranoid people.  Getting the pill to report that it's been swallowed can't be too difficult.


No way, man.

BIG PHARMA, man.

Also, chemtrails.
 
2017-11-14 11:13:49 AM  

Fonaibung: I worked for Proteus a couple of years ago. For Alzheimers and clinical trial patients, this product is a blessing. I'm still concerned about privacy implications for other use cases.


I can see for Alzheimer patients why it would be useful, and for clinical trials the pharma companies would probably be willing to eat the cost. But it seems like in almost all cases there would be old-fashioned methods like paying someone to make follow-up phone calls that would be cheaper and more reliable. It don't see it as more than a niche thing.
 
2017-11-14 11:18:43 AM  
What a fabulous way to move responsibility from yourself to your already overworked doctor...
 
zez
2017-11-14 11:21:43 AM  
This is totally going to ruin the standard plot device for dystopian sci-fi films, where the protagonist stops taking his medication and realizes what the world is really like.
 
2017-11-14 11:29:57 AM  

zez: This is totally going to ruin the standard plot device for dystopian sci-fi films, where the protagonist stops taking his medication and realizes what the world is really like.


Wouldn't it make that better?  Now the doctor/government have a way to know that one of the citizens slipped their leash in that scenario.  Once they skip a couple of pills, the cops come knocking, forcing the protagonist to make a quick exit and either be on the run or get saved by the local resistance cell.
 
2017-11-14 11:31:18 AM  

zez: This is totally going to ruin the standard plot device for dystopian sci-fi films, where the protagonist stops taking his medication and realizes what the world is really like.


Not at all. It adds a new plot device, how to not take the meds but trick the system into thinking (s)he did.
 
2017-11-14 11:46:03 AM  
tse1.mm.bing.netView Full Size

Next up Pills that make you take them.
 
2017-11-14 11:48:09 AM  
Only the minds at TrumpCo would think this shiat up, if you want to call this "thinking."
 
2017-11-14 11:52:21 AM  

MessinAr: So let's say you have a brother who suffers from schizophrenia/bipolar disorder.  He's lost his job/family/everything he owns in the last few years because, on occasion, he stop taking his medication regularly.  You let him stay in the spare bedroom because you don't want him to be homeless on the streets, but you're concerned he could stop taking his medication again.  He's completely fine 99% of the time when he is taking it, but even still when that 1% happens (as it inevitably does) and he stops taking the pills he spirals out of control.  You now have a way to know whether or not he is taking the meds like he's supposed to.  If he misses one you know immediately, rather than finding out days/weeks down the road when he's far gone enough that it's now a crisis situation.  You have the opportunity, while he can still be reasoned with, to get him to resume his medication.

Is this a bad thing?



Oh no....I'm so sorry.

/My younger brother is mentally ill.
//He just got out of jail and is living with my parents.
///To be honest, I wish he was homeless.
////He was always an asshole.
 
2017-11-14 11:56:19 AM  

winedrinkingman: This, it's for people with mental disorders who often have trouble not complying with their medical needs.


Its a toe-in-the-door for incorporating chips into all pills which would make Proteus really big bucks. From their website: http://www.proteus.com/evidence/

img.fark.netView Full Size


compliance is a big problem for almost all medications.

More creepy than the pill chips is the required wearable patch to record pill ingestion that also records various patient "vital signs". I presume things like body temperature and heart rate but in the future might be able to monitor all sorts of things such as blood alcohol content.

There may be some good scenarios where this system really helps, but If this pill/patch system becomes normalized then expect it as a requirement for all insurance provided medications and maybe just patches alone for all people on parole.
 
2017-11-14 11:59:57 AM  

nartreb: Uh, any doctor, anywhere, would kill for something like this, if it was reliable and cheap.

Patient goes to doc, doc prescribes medicine, two weeks later patient is back, still sick.
a) meds aren't working, maybe diagnosis is wrong
b) meds aren't sufficient, try a larger dose
c) patient forgot to take meds all week, give them a good scolding and/or sign them up for some kind of reminder service
d) patient sold the drugs on the black market

This is a big deal for elderly patients, who take lots of meds and often forget what they're supposed to take.

Trying this in schizophrenics and bipolar people is also a very good idea.  From time to time they'll decide to stop taking their meds, and won't tell anybody.  It can take a few weeks for the symptoms to be obvious, and by that point things tend to get bad - they won't listen to anybody, so the only "treatment" is to wait until they're a clear danger to themselves or others and can be locked up involuntarily, at great expense.  Meanwhile the patient will have completely trashed his career and relationships and may need years to get back to a position of relative self-sufficiency.
  However, it might not work.  This population includes some clever and paranoid people.  Getting the pill to report that it's been swallowed can't be too difficult.


sounds like it would make more sense to have something like a wrist band doser that applies the doses according to what it was programmed to deliver and the doctors refill it.
Tho I can imagine something like that could easily overdose someone if it malfunctions.
 
2017-11-14 12:06:06 PM  

The_Sponge: MessinAr: So let's say you have a brother who suffers from schizophrenia/bipolar disorder...

Oh no....I'm so sorry.

/My younger brother is mentally ill.
//He just got out of jail and is living with my parents.
///To be honest, I wish he was homeless.
////He was always an asshole.


Well in my situation it isn't my brother, nor am I the one doing the care-taking.  I didn't intend for it to sound like that is me, but after re-reading it I can easily see how that's implied.  Sorry for being unintentionally misleading, but I do have a couple family members (one bio, one inlaw) that could really have used something like this for the last 20+ years.  The number of people that skip their meds and, ultimately, end up in jail is probably staggering.  Just think about how many stories we've had on Fark where cops were called and someone ended up dead just because they didn't take their meds.  Every one of them is tragic.

A third family member has someone to help remind him/her to take meds, and this person is doing good in that regard.  From the stories I've heard, back in the day, this person was an absolute nightmare at times before the medication was being taken regularly.

I don't know if the tag was a joke or if I'm just being naive.  I know people suffering from paranoia may not like their pill-taking being monitored, but aside from that issue and, perhaps, the increase in cost (worth it, IMO, given the alternative) I'm having a hard time seeing the bad in this.  If you've seen someone with mental illness being effectively medicated (i.e. "typical") vs. being off their meds I don't know how you could think of this as a bad thing.
 
2017-11-14 12:13:08 PM  
img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2017-11-14 12:14:51 PM  

MessinAr: So let's say you have a brother who suffers from schizophrenia/bipolar disorder.  He's lost his job/family/everything he owns in the last few years because, on occasion, he stop taking his medication regularly.  You let him stay in the spare bedroom because you don't want him to be homeless on the streets, but you're concerned he could stop taking his medication again.  He's completely fine 99% of the time when he is taking it, but even still when that 1% happens (as it inevitably does) and he stops taking the pills he spirals out of control.  You now have a way to know whether or not he is taking the meds like he's supposed to.  If he misses one you know immediately, rather than finding out days/weeks down the road when he's far gone enough that it's now a crisis situation.  You have the opportunity, while he can still be reasoned with, to get him to resume his medication.

Is this a bad thing?


Organization. Put his pills in a pillbox that stays in the kitchen...he takes the pills in front of someone. It happens in the hospital with any patient, depending on the nurses's tryst. Plus, you have the evidence in front of you to refresh and remind.

/caretaker to my late wife
//lessons learned the hard way
///it doesn't get easier, but it's easier if'n you got the routine figgered out.
 
2017-11-14 12:15:56 PM  
Thisnis actually a great idea. Especially if its used in cases that have violence involved.  Schizophrenics usually stop taking their medication when they feel better or because of side effects. Stoping a medication that is working then starting up again can have sketchy results.  This would be perfect to keep an eye on  people who cant fully be trusted or remember to take medication
 
2017-11-14 12:17:09 PM  

Mikeyworld: MessinAr: So let's say you have a brother who suffers from schizophrenia/bipolar disorder.   You have the opportunity, while he can still be reasoned with, to get him to resume his medication.

Organization. Put his pills in a pillbox that stays in the kitchen...he takes the pills in front of someone. It happens in the hospital with any patient, depending on the nurses's tryst. Plus, you have the evidence in front of you to refresh and remind.

/caretaker to my late wife
//lessons learned the hard way
///it doesn't get easier, but it's easier if'n you got the routine figgered out.


Ummm. That's 'trust'...filter? or farkup?
 
2017-11-14 12:25:40 PM  

MessinAr: So let's say you have a brother who suffers from schizophrenia/bipolar disorder.  He's lost his job/family/everything he owns in the last few years because, on occasion, he stop taking his medication regularly.  You let him stay in the spare bedroom because you don't want him to be homeless on the streets, but you're concerned he could stop taking his medication again.  He's completely fine 99% of the time when he is taking it, but even still when that 1% happens (as it inevitably does) and he stops taking the pills he spirals out of control.  You now have a way to know whether or not he is taking the meds like he's supposed to.  If he misses one you know immediately, rather than finding out days/weeks down the road when he's far gone enough that it's now a crisis situation.  You have the opportunity, while he can still be reasoned with, to get him to resume his medication.

Is this a bad thing?


Let's say I don't like the idea of normalizing monitoring devices of any kind in my stomach. How do I prevent this from spilling over from your crazy, anecdotal, bullshiat into other medications that are taken by people who aren't whackadoo?

Why the fark would your brother or mine effect public opinion on giving up one more piece of privacy?

Jesus, the last thing you should want is for vulnerable people to be more under the microscope of pharmaceutical companies. What happens when information is stored and then hacked? Are you actively hoping to help criminals/governments/information trading companies fark everyone else over? Do you want people to know that you need a pill to get a boner, pass out when you take a shiat, or have a significant opiate dependency?
 
2017-11-14 12:25:48 PM  

Mikeyworld: Mikeyworld: MessinAr: So let's say you have a brother who suffers from schizophrenia/bipolar disorder.   You have the opportunity, while he can still be reasoned with, to get him to resume his medication.

Organization. Put his pills in a pillbox that stays in the kitchen...he takes the pills in front of someone. It happens in the hospital with any patient, depending on the nurses's tryst. Plus, you have the evidence in front of you to refresh and remind.

/caretaker to my late wife
//lessons learned the hard way
///it doesn't get easier, but it's easier if'n you got the routine figgered out.

Ummm. That's 'trust'...filter? or farkup?


Freudian slip?
 
2017-11-14 12:28:43 PM  

Mikeyworld: Mikeyworld: MessinAr: So let's say you have a brother who suffers from schizophrenia/bipolar disorder.   You have the opportunity, while he can still be reasoned with, to get him to resume his medication.

Organization. Put his pills in a pillbox that stays in the kitchen...he takes the pills in front of someone. It happens in the hospital with any patient, depending on the nurses's tryst. Plus, you have the evidence in front of you to refresh and remind.

/caretaker to my late wife
//lessons learned the hard way
///it doesn't get easier, but it's easier if'n you got the routine figgered out.

Ummm. That's 'trust'...filter? or farkup?


But if'nwas intentional?
 
2017-11-14 12:29:31 PM  
All I can say is I think I have the Vapors
 
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