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(Tech Crunch)   Robot shuttle in Vegas goes on a (fender) bender. Promptly blames hookers and blackjack   ( techcrunch.com) divider line
    More: Awkward, NBC, shuttle, Automobile, driverless shuttle, Las Vegas metropolitan area, local NBC affiliate, egglike 8-seater Navya, English-language films  
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910 clicks; posted to Geek » on 09 Nov 2017 at 11:20 AM (32 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2017-11-09 11:02:37 AM  
img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2017-11-09 11:20:13 AM  
Great rant about the shuttle accident. story here
 
2017-11-09 11:36:18 AM  
So does the standard defense that truck drivers can do whatever the hell they want because they bring the food to your table and the clothes on your back to your town still apply here? I suppose a robot WOULD require parts and maintenance supplies to be transported the same way...
 
2017-11-09 11:42:51 AM  
"The shuttle just stayed still and we were like, 'oh my gosh, it's gonna hit us, it's gonna hit us!' and then.. it hit us! And the shuttle didn't have the ability to move back, either. Like, the shuttle just stayed still."

Is there a way for passengers to GTFO?
 
2017-11-09 12:03:45 PM  
A City of Las Vegas representative issued a statement that the shuttle "did what it was supposed to do, in that its sensors registered the truck and the shuttle stopped to avoid the accident." It also claims, lamely, that "Had the truck had the same sensing equipment that the shuttle has the accident would have been avoided."

Wow, what a weak attempt at deflection. No, asshole, the shuttle has to at least try to avoid the accident. What you're telling me is that if a car ran a red light, and the shuttle had the right of way, it would just stop in the middle of the intersection?

WelldeadLink: "The shuttle just stayed still and we were like, 'oh my gosh, it's gonna hit us, it's gonna hit us!' and then.. it hit us! And the shuttle didn't have the ability to move back, either. Like, the shuttle just stayed still."

Is there a way for passengers to GTFO?


Maybe when it is at an official stop, but there may be a door lock that is engaged unless the thing is officially "stopped" to pick up passengers. Otherwise you'd have drunk tourists trying to hop on and off the thing while it was still moving. I would think it would be programmed to only unlock the doors at designated stops, and the lock would default to "unlocked" if it lost power.

And there's probably an emergency exit button, but you kind of get mesmerized when you watch an incident unfold like that and all of the possible things that you would expect to happen don't. They probably waited for it to move. And waited... and by the time they realized it wasn't moving, it was too late. it's not like this was a 5 minute process.
 
2017-11-09 12:04:14 PM  
More precisely, it was standing still and a truck backed into it.
 
2017-11-09 12:04:15 PM  
There's enough robots in Vegas that also move around enough to require their own shuttle service?
 
2017-11-09 12:08:38 PM  
Are we blaming the shuttle for not reversing out of the way of the idiot truck driver who backed into it?

/also if it could fly it wold have been able to just fly out of the way of the truck
//been in a similar small fender bender where someone backed into me. Wasn't safe to get out of the way
 
2017-11-09 12:19:03 PM  
hookers?  strippers maybe, it only got a semi
 
2017-11-09 12:24:02 PM  
Shuttle has no reverse?  what kind of farkery is that?
 
2017-11-09 12:25:44 PM  

Gubbo: Are we blaming the shuttle for not reversing out of the way of the idiot truck driver who backed into it?

/also if it could fly it wold have been able to just fly out of the way of the truck
//been in a similar small fender bender where someone backed into me. Wasn't safe to get out of the way


That's what the rant from TTAC I posted basically says.
 
2017-11-09 12:25:44 PM  

Gubbo: Are we blaming the shuttle for not reversing out of the way of the idiot truck driver who backed into it?

/also if it could fly it wold have been able to just fly out of the way of the truck
//been in a similar small fender bender where someone backed into me. Wasn't safe to get out of the way


Yes, even when another vehicle is at fault, you're expected to at least try to avoid the accident. On other words, never tell the cop that you intentionally rammed the guy who ran the red light, you don't get to do that. On a situation like this, you would expect the robotic shuttle to have at least some basic evasion technique planned. Otherwise, it might just sit there when a truly dangerous situation unfolded, although it had plenty of room to escape. Yes, the truck driver would still be at fault, but this is shiat as fat as robotic cars go if it doesn't even have the instincts of a 3 year old.
 
2017-11-09 12:35:55 PM  
At first I read that as "Robot shuffle", so I was pretty confused for a few minutes there.
 
2017-11-09 12:43:46 PM  

Mikey1969: Gubbo: Are we blaming the shuttle for not reversing out of the way of the idiot truck driver who backed into it?

/also if it could fly it wold have been able to just fly out of the way of the truck
//been in a similar small fender bender where someone backed into me. Wasn't safe to get out of the way

Yes, even when another vehicle is at fault, you're expected to at least try to avoid the accident. On other words, never tell the cop that you intentionally rammed the guy who ran the red light, you don't get to do that. On a situation like this, you would expect the robotic shuttle to have at least some basic evasion technique planned. Otherwise, it might just sit there when a truly dangerous situation unfolded, although it had plenty of room to escape. Yes, the truck driver would still be at fault, but this is shiat as fat as robotic cars go if it doesn't even have the instincts of a 3 year old.


I've been in a similar accident and I was more than 3 when I was behind the wheel. There just wasn't anywhere to go, so all I could do was go, "No no no no no no no.... IDIOT!" as the big SUV slowly backed up straight into my driver's side door, ignoring my horn the whole time.

The one at fault here was the truck driver who backed up into a stationary object. Yes, while we still have autonomous vehicles and ones piloted by people sharing the road it would be helpful if the robots could work around our human stupidity better....... but the problem inherent in most crashes is still human stupidity. The faster we get robots driving and people NOT in control the better.
 
2017-11-09 12:47:58 PM  
They need to install patches Honk_Horn_Like_Angry_NYer v 1.0, along with Middle_Finger 1.0, and evaluate and optimize Yell_Hey_Asshole 1.0.
 
2017-11-09 12:48:01 PM  
I submitted this with a more truthful headline.
 
2017-11-09 12:54:29 PM  
I was sitting in traffic once and an old geezer in front of me was blocking a dump truck from backing up so he stuck it in reverse and backed into me. I had my horn honking the entire time and there was nothing else I could do since I had someone right behind me. My brother has a similar story. He's in line in a drive-through and the idiot in front of him decides he doesn't want to buy anything and wants out so he sticks it in reverse and runs right into him. Maybe we need to have a special test or something before you're allowed to operate a vehicle in reverse.
 
2017-11-09 12:56:39 PM  
img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2017-11-09 01:01:40 PM  

mongbiohazard: Mikey1969: Gubbo: Are we blaming the shuttle for not reversing out of the way of the idiot truck driver who backed into it?

/also if it could fly it wold have been able to just fly out of the way of the truck
//been in a similar small fender bender where someone backed into me. Wasn't safe to get out of the way

Yes, even when another vehicle is at fault, you're expected to at least try to avoid the accident. On other words, never tell the cop that you intentionally rammed the guy who ran the red light, you don't get to do that. On a situation like this, you would expect the robotic shuttle to have at least some basic evasion technique planned. Otherwise, it might just sit there when a truly dangerous situation unfolded, although it had plenty of room to escape. Yes, the truck driver would still be at fault, but this is shiat as fat as robotic cars go if it doesn't even have the instincts of a 3 year old.

I've been in a similar accident and I was more than 3 when I was behind the wheel. There just wasn't anywhere to go, so all I could do was go, "No no no no no no no.... IDIOT!" as the big SUV slowly backed up straight into my driver's side door, ignoring my horn the whole time.

The one at fault here was the truck driver who backed up into a stationary object. Yes, while we still have autonomous vehicles and ones piloted by people sharing the road it would be helpful if the robots could work around our human stupidity better....... but the problem inherent in most crashes is still human stupidity. The faster we get robots driving and people NOT in control the better.


The point here is that the self driving car didn't attempt anything. At all. Someone in TFA would have said "Well, to be fair, it didn't have anywhere to go", but that's not what they said. They didn't even say so in their "official statement", just that if the truck had collision avoidance, this would never have happened. If I'm the spokesperson for this, I'm sure as shiat going to add that "Well, the shuttle didn't move because there was no place safe to move to." Instead we get "Well, the truck didn't have collision avoidance, so there you go.". Either the PR guy is a complete waste of flesh, or there was somewhere to go and the shuttle farked up.
 
2017-11-09 01:05:55 PM  

mongbiohazard: Mikey1969: Gubbo: Are we blaming the shuttle for not reversing out of the way of the idiot truck driver who backed into it?

/also if it could fly it wold have been able to just fly out of the way of the truck
//been in a similar small fender bender where someone backed into me. Wasn't safe to get out of the way

Yes, even when another vehicle is at fault, you're expected to at least try to avoid the accident. On other words, never tell the cop that you intentionally rammed the guy who ran the red light, you don't get to do that. On a situation like this, you would expect the robotic shuttle to have at least some basic evasion technique planned. Otherwise, it might just sit there when a truly dangerous situation unfolded, although it had plenty of room to escape. Yes, the truck driver would still be at fault, but this is shiat as fat as robotic cars go if it doesn't even have the instincts of a 3 year old.

I've been in a similar accident and I was more than 3 when I was behind the wheel. There just wasn't anywhere to go, so all I could do was go, "No no no no no no no.... IDIOT!" as the big SUV slowly backed up straight into my driver's side door, ignoring my horn the whole time.

The one at fault here was the truck driver who backed up into a stationary object. Yes, while we still have autonomous vehicles and ones piloted by people sharing the road it would be helpful if the robots could work around our human stupidity better....... but the problem inherent in most crashes is still human stupidity. The faster we get robots driving and people NOT in control the better.


That's what I am wondering was there any room for the car to backup or was another car close and the robot said oh well brace for impact.
 
2017-11-09 01:14:34 PM  
Did the shuttle have a horn and appropriate activation software?
 
2017-11-09 01:29:20 PM  

Mikey1969: mongbiohazard: Mikey1969: Gubbo: Are we blaming the shuttle for not reversing out of the way of the idiot truck driver who backed into it?

/also if it could fly it wold have been able to just fly out of the way of the truck
//been in a similar small fender bender where someone backed into me. Wasn't safe to get out of the way

Yes, even when another vehicle is at fault, you're expected to at least try to avoid the accident. On other words, never tell the cop that you intentionally rammed the guy who ran the red light, you don't get to do that. On a situation like this, you would expect the robotic shuttle to have at least some basic evasion technique planned. Otherwise, it might just sit there when a truly dangerous situation unfolded, although it had plenty of room to escape. Yes, the truck driver would still be at fault, but this is shiat as fat as robotic cars go if it doesn't even have the instincts of a 3 year old.

I've been in a similar accident and I was more than 3 when I was behind the wheel. There just wasn't anywhere to go, so all I could do was go, "No no no no no no no.... IDIOT!" as the big SUV slowly backed up straight into my driver's side door, ignoring my horn the whole time.

The one at fault here was the truck driver who backed up into a stationary object. Yes, while we still have autonomous vehicles and ones piloted by people sharing the road it would be helpful if the robots could work around our human stupidity better....... but the problem inherent in most crashes is still human stupidity. The faster we get robots driving and people NOT in control the better.

The point here is that the self driving car didn't attempt anything. At all. Someone in TFA would have said "Well, to be fair, it didn't have anywhere to go", but that's not what they said. They didn't even say so in their "official statement", just that if the truck had collision avoidance, this would never have happened. If I'm the spokesperson for this, I'm sure as shiat going to add that "Well, the shuttle didn't move because there was no place safe to move to." Instead we get "Well, the truck didn't have collision avoidance, so there you go.". Either the PR guy is a complete waste of flesh, or there was somewhere to go and the shuttle farked up.


I get what you're saying, I'm just saying the bigger picture issue is that the real problem is that humans are bad at being behind the wheel. The truck driver literally backed up into a stationary object. Regardless of how the robot reacted, that's still the main problem - human error. The same problem behind most crashes in general.

Human error is what we need to eliminate from the system if we want to make driving safer. That car blog linked earlier made a good point that hybrid systems where humans are driving some cars and robots are driving others may be something very difficult or impossible to have working smoothly (I'm not sure I really agree with him, but it's a fair enough point that it could be debated). But the human element has always been what has made driving dangerous, and the faster we can eliminate that the better.
 
2017-11-09 01:40:11 PM  
Guys, you're going to give up your horse and buggy sooner or later. This is the time to make peace with that.
 
2017-11-09 01:40:48 PM  

mongbiohazard: I get what you're saying, I'm just saying the bigger picture issue is that the real problem is that humans are bad at being behind the wheel. The truck driver literally backed up into a stationary object. Regardless of how the robot reacted, that's still the main problem - human error. The same problem behind most crashes in general.

Human error is what we need to eliminate from the system if we want to make driving safer.


I don't think you get what he's saying.

He's saying the system exhibited subhuman behavior.
 
2017-11-09 01:44:37 PM  

swahnhennessy: Guys, you're going to give up your horse and buggy sooner or later. This is the time to make peace with that.


Why? Are they no longer street-legal?

img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2017-11-09 01:48:21 PM  

dj_bigbird: Great rant about the shuttle accident. story here


I think he makes a good point about "hybrid" systems with robots driving some vehicles and humans driving others being difficult to integrate. I don't agree with him at all that it's impossible though.

But he also loses me when he talks about the "left coast" types, and infers some sort of conspiracy is afoot. But I would always expect a car blog to be very defensive and negative about autonomous cars.
 
2017-11-09 01:48:54 PM  

swahnhennessy: Guys, you're going to give up your horse and buggy sooner or later. This is the time to make peace with that.


You know those aren't illegal.   We've got quite a few here.  I know a few people who have driven them  Humans are bad a lot of things.  You're probably bad at many yourself.   I hope being without a job suits you in the future.  Al those unemployed drivers might be after your job or customers   There won't be guaranteed income to replace your paycheck.
 
2017-11-09 02:01:14 PM  

This text is now purple: mongbiohazard: I get what you're saying, I'm just saying the bigger picture issue is that the real problem is that humans are bad at being behind the wheel. The truck driver literally backed up into a stationary object. Regardless of how the robot reacted, that's still the main problem - human error. The same problem behind most crashes in general.

Human error is what we need to eliminate from the system if we want to make driving safer.

I don't think you get what he's saying.

He's saying the system exhibited subhuman behavior.


It exhibited a different rule set, a non-human one... which is expected from a non-human. I did get it, I just don't think it's as important as how poorly suited for driving us human monkey-things are in general.

If we're going to blame the machine for not getting out of the way of a person who was farking up, then it's still the person who was farking up that's the ACTUAL problem. The robot just doesn't have a ruleset yet built out enough to compensate for that aspect of human stupidity. Maybe a human could have gotten out of the way in time (which somewhere we don't do on a daily basis), but just because it was dressed that way on its way home that night still doesn't make it OK to smash in to it.

If your friend sticks a laser pointer up his ass and the batteries short giving him a shock... do we blame the manufacturer of the laser pointer even though most other people would know better than to shove the laser pointer up their asses? And yeah, the manufacturer should redesign his product so it's harder to short it out..... but that still doesn't change the fact that the main issue for your friend was really their predilection for being irresponsible and unwisely indiscriminate about what they shove up their ass.

Likewise, the real problem here was human error, just like it is in the vast majority of crashes.
 
2017-11-09 02:18:26 PM  

Uncontrolled_Jibe: swahnhennessy: Guys, you're going to give up your horse and buggy sooner or later. This is the time to make peace with that.

You know those aren't illegal.   We've got quite a few here.  I know a few people who have driven them  Humans are bad a lot of things.  You're probably bad at many yourself.   I hope being without a job suits you in the future.  Al those unemployed drivers might be after your job or customers   There won't be guaranteed income to replace your paycheck.


Which is a problem of poor planning and policy. The appropriate fix for that is proper planning and policy, not to tell Henry Ford he can't make any Model T's.

It's a problem which goes well beyond the automotive industry. Automation is getting better and more general purpose by the day, and already some jobs we thought could never be automated have already started to be. No job is safe from automation - NONE - so as a people we have to decide very soon how we will structure our society in a world where there simply will never again be jobs for most human beings. That world is coming, and it's coming much faster than most people think.
 
2017-11-09 02:18:45 PM  
mongbiohazard:
If your friend sticks a laser pointer up his ass and the batteries short giving him a shock... do we blame the manufacturer of the laser pointer even though most other people would know better than to shove the laser pointer up their asses? And yeah, the manufacturer should redesign his product so it's harder to short it out..... but that still doesn't change the fact that the main issue for your friend was really their predilection for being irresponsible and unwisely indiscriminate about what they shove up their ass.

Likewise, the real problem here was human error, just like it is in the vast majority of crashes.


No, the point here was this was an avoidable accident.  The truck driver is still at fault, but the robot wasn't smart enough to avoid the collision.  Its all well and good to say humans suck at driving, but if we stick a bunch of robots in the system during the likely long transition between human driving and fully autonomous driving, and they're not capable of avoiding accidents humans do every single day, we'll have more fender benders and deaths, not fewer.
 
2017-11-09 02:22:14 PM  
A human driver would have know to be on the lookout for idiot truck drivers. If I'm behind a truck that is stopped, the second I see his reverse lights come on I'll honk. And I'm also in the habit of positioning my car so trucks can see me in their side mirror.

Yeah, the truck it at fault but it may have been avoided by a human driver in the shuttle.
 
2017-11-09 02:33:07 PM  
Is it time yet to talk about armed shuttle controls?
 
2017-11-09 02:33:59 PM  
"The shuttle just stayed still..."

The bus is made by a French company - Subby missed the obvious Fark reference.
 
2017-11-09 02:36:06 PM  
My feeling is the self driving vehicle did not stop far enough back from the driveway the truck was backing into. Most people driving would not have stopped where the robot car did. They would have realized that the truck needed the whole drive way to be clear as in 90 degrees. The robot could have stopped in time it drove into a space most humans would realized was needed to access the drive. Expect more of these.
 
2017-11-09 02:39:12 PM  

uber humper: A human driver would have know to be on the lookout for idiot truck drivers. If I'm behind a truck that is stopped, the second I see his reverse lights come on I'll honk. And I'm also in the habit of positioning my car so trucks can see me in their side mirror.

Yeah, the truck it at fault but it may have been avoided by a human driver in the shuttle.


Or as many anecdotal stories have shown, a human might have cause a different fender bender

/plural of anecdote is data, right?
 
2017-11-09 02:59:43 PM  

Gubbo: uber humper: A human driver would have know to be on the lookout for idiot truck drivers. If I'm behind a truck that is stopped, the second I see his reverse lights come on I'll honk. And I'm also in the habit of positioning my car so trucks can see me in their side mirror.

Yeah, the truck it at fault but it may have been avoided by a human driver in the shuttle.

Or as many anecdotal stories have shown, a human might have cause a different fender bender

/plural of anecdote is data, right?


You mean the plural of anecdote is fake news...
 
2017-11-09 03:04:44 PM  

asymptonic: mongbiohazard:
If your friend sticks a laser pointer up his ass and the batteries short giving him a shock... do we blame the manufacturer of the laser pointer even though most other people would know better than to shove the laser pointer up their asses? And yeah, the manufacturer should redesign his product so it's harder to short it out..... but that still doesn't change the fact that the main issue for your friend was really their predilection for being irresponsible and unwisely indiscriminate about what they shove up their ass.

Likewise, the real problem here was human error, just like it is in the vast majority of crashes.

No, the point here was this was an avoidable accident.  The truck driver is still at fault, but the robot wasn't smart enough to avoid the collision.  Its all well and good to say humans suck at driving, but if we stick a bunch of robots in the system during the likely long transition between human driving and fully autonomous driving, and they're not capable of avoiding accidents humans do every single day, we'll have more fender benders and deaths, not fewer.


The robot wasn't smart enough to avoid the collision..... well, the human driver wasn't smart enough to not cause it in the first place.

Engineering/programming can eliminate the robot's issue. What can eliminate human fallibility and/or stupidity? Nothing at all. Humans need to be pushed out of the driver's seat as soon as possible. We mustn't let selfish desires get in the way of that.
 
2017-11-09 03:18:05 PM  
The future will be automation for driving. Which will be good. But also bad, because I really do sometimes enjoy a nice drive. Especially if you can throw some nice windy roads in there.

/for the benefit of American farkers, windy roads are those things when it isn't a dead straight highway
 
2017-11-09 04:06:58 PM  

Gubbo: The future will be automation for driving. Which will be good. But also bad, because I really do sometimes enjoy a nice drive. Especially if you can throw some nice windy roads in there.

/for the benefit of American farkers, windy roads are those things when it isn't a dead straight highway


How much wind makes a straight road more interesting?  A breeze?  A gust?  Hurricane force?
 
2017-11-09 04:30:41 PM  

Gubbo: /for the benefit of American farkers, windy roads are those things when it isn't a dead straight highway


The US has several large mountain ranges, with the requisite twisty mountain roads going through them.
For example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deals_G​a​p,_North_Carolina
 
2017-11-09 04:34:59 PM  

lordargent: Gubbo: /for the benefit of American farkers, windy roads are those things when it isn't a dead straight highway

The US has several large mountain ranges, with the requisite twisty mountain roads going through them.
For example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deals_Ga​p,_North_Carolina

The speed limit on the Dragon was 55 mph (89 km/h) prior to 1992; it was reduced to 30 mph (48 km/h) in 2005. The presence of law enforcement on the Tennessee portion has dramatically increased since 2007.[4][5][6]


A few problems.

/genuinely don't know how to make my car go that slow on the open road
 
2017-11-09 05:06:50 PM  

Gubbo: /for the benefit of American farkers, windy roads are those things when it isn't a dead straight highway


For the benefit of people who live on a small island, America is farking huge, and, yes, has it's fair share of winding roads.
 
2017-11-09 05:09:59 PM  

Geotpf: Gubbo: /for the benefit of American farkers, windy roads are those things when it isn't a dead straight highway

For the benefit of people who live on a small island, America is farking huge, and, yes, has it's fair share of winding roads.


Relax. It's a little humor at your expense. We mock your straight roads, you mock bad dental hygiene and terrible food.

/you're mostly correct on the food
 
2017-11-09 05:29:12 PM  

Gubbo: Geotpf: Gubbo: /for the benefit of American farkers, windy roads are those things when it isn't a dead straight highway

For the benefit of people who live on a small island, America is farking huge, and, yes, has it's fair share of winding roads.

Relax. It's a little humor at your expense. We mock your straight roads, you mock bad dental hygiene and terrible food.

/you're mostly correct on the food


Have you ever seen the 'Not the Nine O' Clock News' musical routine "We Like Truckin'"?

I've always thought it was hilarious, genius comedy that was based on the concept that, small as the British Isles are, the average Brit would not have a real appreciation of the American Long-Haul Trucker concept of 'Six Days on the Road and I'm Gonna Make It Home Tonight'.

That's almost certainly wrong, though, because Europe is certainly big enough for serious long-haul trucking.
 
2017-11-09 05:39:14 PM  

Nicholas D. Wolfwood: Gubbo: Geotpf: Gubbo: /for the benefit of American farkers, windy roads are those things when it isn't a dead straight highway

For the benefit of people who live on a small island, America is farking huge, and, yes, has it's fair share of winding roads.

Relax. It's a little humor at your expense. We mock your straight roads, you mock bad dental hygiene and terrible food.

/you're mostly correct on the food

Have you ever seen the 'Not the Nine O' Clock News' musical routine "We Like Truckin'"?

I've always thought it was hilarious, genius comedy that was based on the concept that, small as the British Isles are, the average Brit would not have a real appreciation of the American Long-Haul Trucker concept of 'Six Days on the Road and I'm Gonna Make It Home Tonight'.

That's almost certainly wrong, though, because Europe is certainly big enough for serious long-haul trucking.


It was English. They most certainly would not have considered themselves European.
 
2017-11-09 06:53:30 PM  

Gubbo: Nicholas D. Wolfwood: Gubbo: Geotpf: Gubbo: /for the benefit of American farkers, windy roads are those things when it isn't a dead straight highway

For the benefit of people who live on a small island, America is farking huge, and, yes, has it's fair share of winding roads.

Relax. It's a little humor at your expense. We mock your straight roads, you mock bad dental hygiene and terrible food.

/you're mostly correct on the food

Have you ever seen the 'Not the Nine O' Clock News' musical routine "We Like Truckin'"?

I've always thought it was hilarious, genius comedy that was based on the concept that, small as the British Isles are, the average Brit would not have a real appreciation of the American Long-Haul Trucker concept of 'Six Days on the Road and I'm Gonna Make It Home Tonight'.

That's almost certainly wrong, though, because Europe is certainly big enough for serious long-haul trucking.

It was English. They most certainly would not have considered themselves European.


But isn't it common for freight trucks to go back and forth between England and the Continent?  By ferry or Chunnel?
 
2017-11-09 08:39:47 PM  
The "does not compute, I'll just sit" reflex is going to kill a lot of people, until we get sick of it.
 
2017-11-10 11:35:04 AM  

Gubbo: Are we blaming the shuttle for not reversing out of the way of the idiot truck driver who backed into it?

/also if it could fly it wold have been able to just fly out of the way of the truck
//been in a similar small fender bender where someone backed into me. Wasn't safe to get out of the way


Yeah.  I've been in two fender benders when someone pulled out of a parking space into me.  Both times I saw it before impact but there wasn't enough time to get out of the way.  The first one was really stupid--she heard me laying on the horn but thought I was objecting to her backing out when it should have been my lane.

Gubbo: The future will be automation for driving. Which will be good. But also bad, because I really do sometimes enjoy a nice drive. Especially if you can throw some nice windy roads in there.

/for the benefit of American farkers, windy roads are those things when it isn't a dead straight highway


You must be thinking of the midwest.  The land is flat, there's no reason for the roads not to be straight.  I live in the west.  While I'm not in the mountains here life takes me into them at times--and the roads get winding there.
 
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