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(The Consumerist)   With unemployment at near record lows, it turns out that employers may have to actually offer more money and better working conditions in order to fill vacancies. What a concept   ( consumerist.com) divider line
    More: Obvious, on-demand delivery apps, higher starting pay, Retailing, biggest bricks-and-mortar retailer, entry-level workers, retail apocalypse, entry-level employees, Employment  
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1681 clicks; posted to Business » on 21 Oct 2017 at 11:44 AM (38 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2017-10-21 08:54:55 AM  
You mean nobody is willing to work in a retail environment for $7.25 an hour with no benefits unless they have no other option?! Clearly this is a liberal plot against the job creators!
 
2017-10-21 09:07:27 AM  
Careful, higher wages might induce people to buy more, thus creating demand which will require more jobs to fill.
 
2017-10-21 09:33:53 AM  
All of Trump's shenanigans have been taking the focus away from the big companies freeing them to do whatever they want, namely laying off American workers so they can hire cheaper H1B workers to replace them.

As more companies do this, others follow suit. It's morally and ethically wrong, promoting the equivalent of indentured servants and is a very grey area of the law, but hey, as long as they can get away with it and it improves their bottom line. Wall Street loves it.
 
2017-10-21 09:57:46 AM  
The town I just moved to has Help Wanted signs everywhere and it's not even tourist season. Yet they still pay low wages. It's like supply and demand has been suspended here.
 
2017-10-21 10:04:37 AM  
This is an outrage!
 
2017-10-21 10:27:18 AM  
Never fear, there are swaths of people willing to work for even less than that. They just don't live here.

Yet.
 
2017-10-21 10:45:36 AM  
I liked working retail and I was very good at it, but it sucks most of the time. I generally had higher sales figures, fewer returns, and could build up a bigger repeat customer base but I'm not sure it mattered much for the bottom line of my employers. I don't really know how to judge this--if you are in high-end retail, your personality, honesty, appearance, and skills do make a difference. You are mostly educating people and you need to be able to memorize and know the stock, good points and bad. But in most brick and mortar stores, most of the job is cashiering. Most customers come in knowing what they want and how much they will spend and even the best salesperson can't budge that needle very much. The attributes that make a great associate in retail also make you extremely frustrated by the majority of retail jobs.

And let's face it, for generations retail has depended on hiring women because they honestly didn't have a lot of options. They do now, so fewer are turning to retail for a paycheck.

I still shop brick and mortar because I appreciate expertise and knowledge and service but I'm kind of old and my younger friends are on Amazon looking for the cheap and are willing to spend time they would otherwise spend on looking for a parking space noodling around online doing their own research--being their own salespeople as it were.

I think it's part and parcel with how much less willing people are to hire someone to cut their lawn vs. doing it themselves. We seem to be less likely to be okay with paying other people to do things we could possibly do ourselves even though we may not do it as well. 

So how valuable is a retail associate in the end? And how much money are they worth? I'd like to think I contributed a lot to my company's bottom line both in earnings and as an ambassador for our brand, but most of my job was simply managing the line at the register and managing stock in the last years I worked retail. 

That's not a terribly interesting work environment. And at least in food service they feed you.
 
2017-10-21 11:10:24 AM  

ginandbacon: Most customers come in knowing what they want and how much they will spend and even the best salesperson can't budge that needle very much.


cdn.funnyand.comView Full Size
 
2017-10-21 11:20:39 AM  
More like trickle down raises after the big shots get whatever they want.
 
2017-10-21 11:39:43 AM  
Welcome to classic supply and demand.  The supply of people looking for jobs has gone down, therefore they can get higher "prices" for their labor.  Don't want to pay that price, you don't get an employee.
 
2017-10-21 11:49:28 AM  
So, if unemployment is so damn low, why do we need a YUGE tax cut for the billionaires?
 
2017-10-21 11:54:30 AM  

Lee Jackson Beauregard: So, if unemployment is so damn low, why do we need a YUGE tax cut for the billionaires?


So they can pay their employees more money. Didn't you read? All the wages are low.
 
2017-10-21 11:56:07 AM  

rzrwiresunrise: Careful, higher wages might induce people to buy more, thus creating demand which will require more jobs to fill.


Demand drive the economy? That's crazy talk.
 
2017-10-21 12:06:53 PM  
damn communists.  why do they hate america
 
2017-10-21 12:12:46 PM  
Time for another recession
 
2017-10-21 12:18:02 PM  

Saiga410: Time for another recession


Soon be.

/it's a feature, not a bug
 
2017-10-21 12:27:59 PM  

itsdan: ginandbacon: Most customers come in knowing what they want and how much they will spend and even the best salesperson can't budge that needle very much.

[cdn.funnyand.com image 624x704]


LMAO.  That's me when I go into HD or Lowe's.  Well, most of the time but certainly not always.

I had an IT coworker who would pontificate about vurtually anything he was asked about and often when he wasn't asked.  And he frequently pulled facts out of his ass and get pissy when called out.  He was laid off (thank dog) and ended up working at HD.  I can only imagine the amount of bad advice he's been giving out.

Classic example of his BS:  The company bought a drive degausser and he told some random visitor that it had a magnetron in it (cringe).  I called him out and told him "the only magnetron here is in the goddam microwave, you dolt."  Then he said "Well it has rotating magnets in it!"  Yeah, uh, no.

In all honesty he's a great human and loves his wife and kids, but goddam he sucked to work with.
 
2017-10-21 12:41:14 PM  

ginandbacon: I liked working retail and I was very good at it, but it sucks most of the time. I generally had higher sales figures, fewer returns, and could build up a bigger repeat customer base but I'm not sure it mattered much for the bottom line of my employers. I don't really know how to judge this--if you are in high-end retail, your personality, honesty, appearance, and skills do make a difference. You are mostly educating people and you need to be able to memorize and know the stock, good points and bad. But in most brick and mortar stores, most of the job is cashiering. Most customers come in knowing what they want and how much they will spend and even the best salesperson can't budge that needle very much. The attributes that make a great associate in retail also make you extremely frustrated by the majority of retail jobs.

And let's face it, for generations retail has depended on hiring women because they honestly didn't have a lot of options. They do now, so fewer are turning to retail for a paycheck.

I still shop brick and mortar because I appreciate expertise and knowledge and service but I'm kind of old and my younger friends are on Amazon looking for the cheap and are willing to spend time they would otherwise spend on looking for a parking space noodling around online doing their own research--being their own salespeople as it were.

I think it's part and parcel with how much less willing people are to hire someone to cut their lawn vs. doing it themselves. We seem to be less likely to be okay with paying other people to do things we could possibly do ourselves even though we may not do it as well. 

So how valuable is a retail associate in the end? And how much money are they worth? I'd like to think I contributed a lot to my company's bottom line both in earnings and as an ambassador for our brand, but most of my job was simply managing the line at the register and managing stock in the last years I worked retail. 

That's not a terribly interesting work env ...


you obviously never worked in food service
 
2017-10-21 12:46:31 PM  

rzrwiresunrise: Careful, higher wages might induce people to buy more, thus creating demand which will require more jobs to fill.


In theory we could hand everyone a few hundred dollars a week to spur the economy, but you'd have to make sure it comes back out in taxes. But I'm not doing economics this week, I'm reading anciet texts and making retro fad artifacts that might appeal to hipsters seeking irony.
 
2017-10-21 12:55:25 PM  

rzrwiresunrise: Careful, higher wages might induce people to buy more, thus creating demand which will require more jobs to fill.


That's how it's supposed to work.
 
2017-10-21 12:56:14 PM  

NotThatGuyAgain: itsdan: ginandbacon: Most customers come in knowing what they want and how much they will spend and even the best salesperson can't budge that needle very much.

[cdn.funnyand.com image 624x704]

LMAO.  That's me when I go into HD or Lowe's.  Well, most of the time but certainly not always.

I had an IT coworker who would pontificate about vurtually anything he was asked about and often when he wasn't asked.  And he frequently pulled facts out of his ass and get pissy when called out.  He was laid off (thank dog) and ended up working at HD.  I can only imagine the amount of bad advice he's been giving out.

Classic example of his BS:  The company bought a drive degausser and he told some random visitor that it had a magnetron in it (cringe).  I called him out and told him "the only magnetron here is in the goddam microwave, you dolt."  Then he said "Well it has rotating magnets in it!"  Yeah, uh, no.

In all honesty he's a great human and loves his wife and kids, but goddam he sucked to work with.


No offense, but in all honesty, YOU sound terrible to work with.
 
2017-10-21 12:56:21 PM  

Anad the Barbarian: All of Trump's shenanigans have been taking the focus away from the big companies freeing them to do whatever they want, namely laying off American workers so they can hire cheaper H1B workers to replace them.

As more companies do this, others follow suit. It's morally and ethically wrong, promoting the equivalent of indentured servants and is a very grey area of the law, but hey, as long as they can get away with it and it improves their bottom line. Wall Street loves it.


You do realize that Trump wants to do basically do away with H1B right?  And severely limit immigration right?  And kick out millions of undocumented immigrants right?  And companies aren't happy with any of that.

/H1B should be reformed and expanded
//countries that don't allow immigration die
 
2017-10-21 01:11:21 PM  

rzrwiresunrise: Careful, higher wages might induce people to buy more, thus creating demand which will require more jobs to fill.


This is why I bury my cash. Although there is a rush on shovels and canning jars.
 
2017-10-21 01:12:24 PM  
And my company wonders why they have problems with retention.
 
2017-10-21 01:16:17 PM  

SpaceyCat: Welcome to classic supply and demand.  The supply of people looking for jobs has gone down, therefore they can get higher "prices" for their labor.  Don't want to pay that price, you don't get an employee.


We're paying 20% over minimum wage in our state ($11/hr) for unskilled in-store restaurant workers with a University right down the street.  Our delivery drivers make, on average, $24/hr for a 5 hour shift including tips but not including mileage.

We still can't find people and have a very high turnover.
 
2017-10-21 01:25:43 PM  
We've had almost full employment now in the UK for years, and wages are still pitifully low, way below the level of inflation.
 
2017-10-21 01:26:08 PM  

ginandbacon: Most customers come in knowing what they want and how much they will spend and even the best salesperson can't budge that needle very much.

noodling around online doing their own research--being their own salespeople as it were


When I bought my latest car I had already looked at the dealer's site, where their current inventory was displayed, had done my research, and had picked out the car I wanted. The salesman seemed flabbergasted when I simply walked over to a car and said "I want to test drive this one. Just this one."

And then I bought it.

When it comes to large purchases there's no way I'm taking a saleperson's word for everything. I'm doing the research ahead of time myself.
 
2017-10-21 01:30:47 PM  

Deep Contact: More like trickle down raises after the big shots get whatever they want.


You know, if I was dictator, the first question out of my mouth when corporations started to complain about taxes would be "how much if your tax cut, on paper signed as a legal document,are you willing to guarantee goes towards your lowest level employees(not C suite execs) and how much goes to shareholders? Because if that number is not at least 50%,Fark you, good day sir.
 
2017-10-21 01:41:50 PM  

AngryDragon: We're paying 20% over minimum wage in our state ($11/hr) for unskilled in-store restaurant workers with a University right down the street. Our delivery drivers make, on average, $24/hr for a 5 hour shift including tips but not including mileage.

We still can't find people and have a very high turnover.


Which says that you're still not paying enough to keep employees for going somewhere for better pay/less work.  If someone will get paid more money for less hassle/work, you damn well better believe they'll take it.  Considering the shiat college students put delivery people through, that ain't surprising.
 
2017-10-21 01:42:51 PM  
So wages go up, and prices follow, and the wage increase is gone.

Inflation!

Keeping a dollar amount as a minimum wage instead of an inflation adjusted number hides this. And the fight for fifteen and such don't do a good job getting that point across when they target a specific but just as arbitrary number.

Spend your money while its worth something.
 
2017-10-21 01:43:34 PM  
I hate republicans so much, yes, you submittard.
 
2017-10-21 01:50:46 PM  
Once worked as a big-box manager in a town on the fringes of the Bakken oil boom, back in the $100+/bbl days. Trying to staff your absolutely booming store was next to impossible. Anyone with a pulse and half a brain could get $30/hr plus in the oilfeld, so corporate 'authorized' me to start people at $9.50. I could submit a form to get them more (on an individual basis) if I wanted to plead my case and prove they were worth it. Tried it twice. Both candidates found better jobs before I ever heard back from corporate HR.

That's why I always wonder about the 'I know more than you' meme. Of course you do - do you think those corporations really want to pay enough to have knowledgeable staff on the sales floor? The days of staffing with retired contractors have been gone since the nineties. If you really know so much, you'd know that. Lording it over some $9/hr schmoe just trying to earn a crappy living makes you look sad.

They're only approaching you 'cuz they're required to ask 'what project are you working on' to maintain the fiction. You already know what you're looking for, and they already don't care.
 
kab
2017-10-21 01:55:41 PM  

recondite cetacean: So wages go up, and prices follow, and the wage increase is gone.

Inflation!

Keeping a dollar amount as a minimum wage instead of an inflation adjusted number hides this. And the fight for fifteen and such don't do a good job getting that point across when they target a specific but just as arbitrary number.

Spend your money while its worth something.


Except that minimum wage hasn't kept up with inflation for quite a while.   The elephant in the room that no one wants to (or knows how to) address is actually higher end income, and how *that* impacts costs..

Good luck with solving that one though.
 
2017-10-21 02:10:37 PM  
...making the long term fight to fifteen inevitable, and it looks like a victory when the inevitable happens, and the original goal is now worth $20.

Not sure what you mean re higher end income?
 
2017-10-21 02:11:07 PM  

Schlubbe: Once worked as a big-box manager in a town on the fringes of the Bakken oil boom, back in the $100+/bbl days. Trying to staff your absolutely booming store was next to impossible. Anyone with a pulse and half a brain could get $30/hr plus in the oilfeld, so corporate 'authorized' me to start people at $9.50. I could submit a form to get them more (on an individual basis) if I wanted to plead my case and prove they were worth it. Tried it twice. Both candidates found better jobs before I ever heard back from corporate HR.

That's why I always wonder about the 'I know more than you' meme. Of course you do - do you think those corporations really want to pay enough to have knowledgeable staff on the sales floor? The days of staffing with retired contractors have been gone since the nineties. If you really know so much, you'd know that. Lording it over some $9/hr schmoe just trying to earn a crappy living makes you look sad.

They're only approaching you 'cuz they're required to ask 'what project are you working on' to maintain the fiction. You already know what you're looking for, and they already don't care.


Walmart paid more than that 20 years ago. Time and a half on Sundays too.
 
2017-10-21 02:20:10 PM  

8 inches: NotThatGuyAgain: itsdan: ginandbacon: Most customers come in knowing what they want and how much they will spend and even the best salesperson can't budge that needle very much.

[cdn.funnyand.com image 624x704]

LMAO.  That's me when I go into HD or Lowe's.  Well, most of the time but certainly not always.

I had an IT coworker who would pontificate about vurtually anything he was asked about and often when he wasn't asked.  And he frequently pulled facts out of his ass and get pissy when called out.  He was laid off (thank dog) and ended up working at HD.  I can only imagine the amount of bad advice he's been giving out.

Classic example of his BS:  The company bought a drive degausser and he told some random visitor that it had a magnetron in it (cringe).  I called him out and told him "the only magnetron here is in the goddam microwave, you dolt."  Then he said "Well it has rotating magnets in it!"  Yeah, uh, no.

In all honesty he's a great human and loves his wife and kids, but goddam he sucked to work with.

No offense, but in all honesty, YOU sound terrible to work with.


I dunno, sales guys handing out bs information is very frustrating. And if called out on it you either learn something or dig deeper into the bullshiat. No one likes an employee covered in shiat.
 
2017-10-21 02:27:04 PM  

gingerjet: Anad the Barbarian: All of Trump's shenanigans have been taking the focus away from the big companies freeing them to do whatever they want, namely laying off American workers so they can hire cheaper H1B workers to replace them.

As more companies do this, others follow suit. It's morally and ethically wrong, promoting the equivalent of indentured servants and is a very grey area of the law, but hey, as long as they can get away with it and it improves their bottom line. Wall Street loves it.

You do realize that Trump wants to do basically do away with H1B right?  And severely limit immigration right?  And kick out millions of undocumented immigrants right?  And companies aren't happy with any of that.

/H1B should be reformed and expanded
//countries that don't allow immigration die


Also I think H1B visas are issued in a set amount every year by Congress.
And who know what Trump really wants to do. He benefited from cheap immigrant labor like anyone else. And if he really wanted to get rid of Mexicans he would have a better idea than a wall considering most are already here or overstay visas. That idea gets votes from racist idiots and Republicans would never pass it while compliainig that the Democrats won't let them pass it to get votes next time.
Or he's a racist idiot. It is honestly hard to tell sometimes.
 
2017-10-21 02:42:20 PM  

SpaceyCat: AngryDragon: We're paying 20% over minimum wage in our state ($11/hr) for unskilled in-store restaurant workers with a University right down the street. Our delivery drivers make, on average, $24/hr for a 5 hour shift including tips but not including mileage.

We still can't find people and have a very high turnover.

Which says that you're still not paying enough to keep employees for going somewhere for better pay/less work.  If someone will get paid more money for less hassle/work, you damn well better believe they'll take it.  Considering the shiat college students put delivery people through, that ain't surprising.


Well, we're not a charity. Every dollar we pay in labor adds .$0.30 in taxes as well. That comes to over $150k in labor tax alone annually.  We already pay more than our competitors and it's not helping.

Some of our drivers make more a year than the store turns in profit. If people are turning their noses up at 50k a year to deliver pizzas, there's a serious problem.
 
2017-10-21 02:58:41 PM  
I have talked to people who hire.  And typically the reason they do not pay hire wages is because "corperate" has set the wages allowed, or they really do not think employees are worth paying more.

It is all the MBAs making the decisions, without a concept of how the real world is, and what actaully happens to employees when you pay employees livable wages
 
2017-10-21 03:01:11 PM  

NotThatGuyAgain: itsdan: ginandbacon: Most customers come in knowing what they want and how much they will spend and even the best salesperson can't budge that needle very much.

[cdn.funnyand.com image 624x704]

LMAO.  That's me when I go into HD or Lowe's.  Well, most of the time but certainly not always.

I had an IT coworker who would pontificate about vurtually anything he was asked about and often when he wasn't asked.  And he frequently pulled facts out of his ass and get pissy when called out.  He was laid off (thank dog) and ended up working at HD.  I can only imagine the amount of bad advice he's been giving out.

Classic example of his BS:  The company bought a drive degausser and he told some random visitor that it had a magnetron in it (cringe).  I called him out and told him "the only magnetron here is in the goddam microwave, you dolt."  Then he said "Well it has rotating magnets in it!"  Yeah, uh, no.

In all honesty he's a great human and loves his wife and kids, but goddam he sucked to work with.


Cool story, bro.

You sound like you are a riot to talk to at dinner parties.
 
2017-10-21 03:08:32 PM  

AngryDragon: SpaceyCat: AngryDragon: We're paying 20% over minimum wage in our state ($11/hr) for unskilled in-store restaurant workers with a University right down the street. Our delivery drivers make, on average, $24/hr for a 5 hour shift including tips but not including mileage.

We still can't find people and have a very high turnover.

Which says that you're still not paying enough to keep employees for going somewhere for better pay/less work.  If someone will get paid more money for less hassle/work, you damn well better believe they'll take it.  Considering the shiat college students put delivery people through, that ain't surprising.

Well, we're not a charity. Every dollar we pay in labor adds .$0.30 in taxes as well. That comes to over $150k in labor tax alone annually.  We already pay more than our competitors and it's not helping.

Some of our drivers make more a year than the store turns in profit. If people are turning their noses up at 50k a year to deliver pizzas, there's a serious problem.


Delivering pizzas was a sweet gig for me. Pays nice (not as much as you quote, I am from a rural area) and you get to sit in a car and listen to music. When not on a delivery your just another pizza cook but those deliveries are a nice break (although it also counted as a break if one was coming up, not sure if that was legal). Maybe if I did that job in the city where instead of sometimes doing deliveries you were always driving and sometimes had multiple deliveries at once (rare for me) it would have been better.
The real issue is vehicle maintenance. Just a flat tire is bad enough but I drove 5x more miles for work than personal use. When you're young you don't have enough experience dealing with mechanics and knowing the costs to factor that in as well as I could now.
 
2017-10-21 04:17:40 PM  

kkinnison: I have talked to people who hire.  And typically the reason they do not pay hire wages is because "corperate" has set the wages allowed, or they really do not think employees are worth paying more.

It is all the MBAs making the decisions, without a concept of how the real world is, and what actaully happens to employees when you pay employees livable wages


I think it come from being a public company.

Inn-n-Out pays their employees more than their fast food competitors.

/although Chik-Fil-a is also private and pays the same as Taco Bell, Christians can also be cheap azz bastards
 
2017-10-21 04:26:44 PM  
Oh my god, wages might have to rise? Time for the Fed to raise rates, increasing unemployment and saving corporations from a fate worse than death.
 
2017-10-21 04:46:13 PM  
I'm always amused when corps seem to think the laws of supply and demand stop working in the payroll office.
 
2017-10-21 04:57:46 PM  

wildcardjack: rzrwiresunrise: Careful, higher wages might induce people to buy more, thus creating demand which will require more jobs to fill.

In theory we could hand everyone a few hundred dollars a week to spur the economy, but you'd have to make sure it comes back out in taxes. But I'm not doing economics this week, I'm reading anciet texts and making retro fad artifacts that might appeal to hipsters seeking irony.


There's no need to make sure. It certainly would come back in taxes, and via a whole host of streams.
 
2017-10-21 05:22:20 PM  

ginandbacon: So how valuable is a retail associate in the end?


If you render them full you can make a couple votive candles, a small sack of fertilizing bonemeal, a few pounds of "pork" sausage, and if they're bigger there's enough iron in the blood to make a single nail.

So about $35.50 with tax.
 
2017-10-21 05:32:11 PM  
AngryDragon:
Well, we're not a charity. Every dollar we pay in labor adds .$0.30 in taxes as well. That comes to over $150k in labor tax alone annually.  We already pay more than our competitors and it's not helping.

I'm curious, how does that $.30 break down? 7.5 for FICA, the rest for some non-health-insurance-providing-employe​r ACA tax or something?

Also, have you (or the owner or whoever) talked with the ex-employees to find out why they left? It isn't exactly turning up your nose if you can make 10% more somewhere else for similar or less effort. Or maybe there are some toxic managers there that make it not worth staying when they can earn only 10% less elsewhere, especially considering you're only 20% above the "I have a pulse pay me" minimum.
 
2017-10-21 05:41:33 PM  

recondite cetacean: So wages go up, and prices follow, and the wage increase is gone.

Inflation!

Keeping a dollar amount as a minimum wage instead of an inflation adjusted number hides this. And the fight for fifteen and such don't do a good job getting that point across when they target a specific but just as arbitrary number.

Spend your money while its worth something.


So the cost of no mass produced product is 100% labor. You could double what you pay workers and unless you were playing games with your markup, you'd never double the cost of your product.

Labor is only one part of anythings cost.
 
2017-10-21 05:48:30 PM  

itsdan: ginandbacon: Most customers come in knowing what they want and how much they will spend and even the best salesperson can't budge that needle very much.

[cdn.funnyand.com image 624x704]


That guy looks like his project involves ammonium nitrate fertilizer.
 
2017-10-21 05:50:35 PM  

mcreadyblue: Inn-n-Out pays their employees more than their fast food competitors.

/although Chik-Fil-a is also private and pays the same as Taco Bell, Christians can also be cheap azz bastards


Are you implying that In-N-Out is NOT a Christian Company because they pay their workers a fair wage?

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