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(WBTV 3 Charlotte)   You're a 'pastor' who owns a grave marker factory, and claim a family didn't pay for 'extras' on their 5 year old's stone. Do you A) Forgive the debt, B) Go to small claims court, or C) Repossess the child's marker?   ( wbtv.com) divider line
    More: Sick, grave marker, Burial, Shoaf, Crystal Leatherman, Cemetery, Money, Headstone, JC Shoaf  
•       •       •

3857 clicks; posted to Main » on 18 Oct 2017 at 2:01 AM (39 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



49 Comments     (+0 »)
 
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2017-10-18 12:13:59 AM  
Looks like C followed by A.
 
2017-10-18 12:31:32 AM  
I'm pretty sure there's something in the bible that you're supposed to worship money before god... or something
 
2017-10-18 01:46:25 AM  
Not very Christian.
 
2017-10-18 02:02:39 AM  

BalugaJoe: Not very Christian.


Most of them aren't.
 
2017-10-18 02:07:52 AM  
You gotta look at the greater good
 
2017-10-18 02:19:09 AM  

BalugaJoe: Not very Christian.


Actually absolutely resembles most "Christians" these days.

picresize.comView Full Size

 
2017-10-18 02:21:13 AM  
I've had to handle the finance for the burials of two grandparents and I made sure the bills were paid.  Both funeral directors were very clear about what the cost would be with itemized invoices   I find it hard to believe that the parents requested additional detail on the headstone and nobody told them it would cost more money.  I find it hard to believe that, for nearly year, they didn't get a single notice that there was an outstanding bill.  "What are they going to do?  Repossess his headstone?"

img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2017-10-18 02:24:28 AM  
Under ideal conditions we each get to plan our own exit to this shiatshow known as humanity. If I should ever be diagnosed with such a horrible condition all I ask is that I be allowed to grapple MMA style with the doctor who performed the diagnosis. I do not suffer fools light;y and neither should you.

/harrumph
 
2017-10-18 02:26:57 AM  
What post hoc extras do you get on a 5 year old's grave stone? Sprinkles?
 
2017-10-18 02:27:36 AM  
This is one of those things where you tell everyone "we have to charge this much because children deserve markers at or below cost".
 
2017-10-18 02:30:49 AM  
Actually had this happen.  A nice headstone for my deceased son (an adult, but still).  Went to the grave and the headstone was gone.  Pieces of shiat as far as I was concerned.  They did a good job, but when the bill is over 1k and you are trying to make it right, it seems like a dick move to do that. A letter, notice or email would have probably gotten it straightened out and we cleared it up, but still the wife was to say the least furious and very upset about it.  I guess since he was special needs, we should have made a big tadoo about it.  Oh, and "Christian" doesn't mean you can let your customers be dead beats and not pay their bills.  Still a dick move without taking them to court to try to get it straightened out.
 
AOW
2017-10-18 02:34:41 AM  
DNRTA but depending on what state this hsppened in removal of a grave marker counts as desecration of a grave, the marker, coffin ect are financed through third parties to eliminate this sort of shenanigans
 
2017-10-18 02:37:55 AM  

Bigdogdaddy: Actually had this happen.  A nice headstone for my deceased son (an adult, but still).  Went to the grave and the headstone was gone.  Pieces of shiat as far as I was concerned.  They did a good job, but when the bill is over 1k and you are trying to make it right, it seems like a dick move to do that. A letter, notice or email would have probably gotten it straightened out and we cleared it up, but still the wife was to say the least furious and very upset about it.  I guess since he was special needs, we should have made a big tadoo about it.  Oh, and "Christian" doesn't mean you can let your customers be dead beats and not pay their bills.  Still a dick move without taking them to court to try to get it straightened out.


I feel like as long as the owner of the company made contact with the family beforehand I don't really have a problem with it.  I wonder how legal it is though...  When a car is repossessed there is a formal legal process that is followed right?  Is it the same for all items or did this guy just go and take it?
 
2017-10-18 02:43:01 AM  
The death industry is a horrible industry.

Most funeral directors are just slick car salesmen with darker suits and softer voices.
 
2017-10-18 02:46:26 AM  
I've had some shiatty jobs in my life, but when part of your job involves repossessing headstones from the graves of children... man... that's rock bottom... where does an employer even find guys like that?
 
2017-10-18 02:46:45 AM  

Steakzilla: Bigdogdaddy: Actually had this happen.  A nice headstone for my deceased son (an adult, but still).  Went to the grave and the headstone was gone.  Pieces of shiat as far as I was concerned.  They did a good job, but when the bill is over 1k and you are trying to make it right, it seems like a dick move to do that. A letter, notice or email would have probably gotten it straightened out and we cleared it up, but still the wife was to say the least furious and very upset about it.  I guess since he was special needs, we should have made a big tadoo about it.  Oh, and "Christian" doesn't mean you can let your customers be dead beats and not pay their bills.  Still a dick move without taking them to court to try to get it straightened out.

I feel like as long as the owner of the company made contact with the family beforehand I don't really have a problem with it.  I wonder how legal it is though...  When a car is repossessed there is a formal legal process that is followed right?  Is it the same for all items or did this guy just go and take it?


It actually did.  I think we owed like $75 on it and like I said, it was a beautiful granite headstone that had been laser cut.  An email would have taken care of the misunderstanding.  Will never do business with them again and will let everyone know not to either.  It will cost them way more than the $75 in the long run.
 
2017-10-18 02:49:37 AM  

jtown: I've had to handle the finance for the burials of two grandparents and I made sure the bills were paid.  Both funeral directors were very clear about what the cost would be with itemized invoices   I find it hard to believe that the parents requested additional detail on the headstone and nobody told them it would cost more money.  I find it hard to believe that, for nearly year, they didn't get a single notice that there was an outstanding bill.  "What are they going to do?  Repossess his headstone?"


I'm inclined to agree with you but based on how quickly the dude was to backpedal, I'm thinking maybe some paperwork was not correctly filed or mailed.
 
2017-10-18 02:58:25 AM  

Steakzilla: When a car is repossessed there is a formal legal process that is followed right?  Is it the same for all items or did this guy just go and take it?


The financing contract generally states that the company retains ownership until the item/car/etc is paid in full, and that they can carry out a repossession at any time without any notice beyond the fact of the payment being late.

The only formal process that must be followed is if the item is locked up or otherwise inaccessible, the repossessor may have a sherrif present to demand access, and oversee the breaking of locks if necessary, but otherwise there's no legal process or court action required. If it's out in the open, as this headstone was, they could come and repossess it in the middle of the kid's funeral and it would be just as legal as repossessing it a year later in the dead of night.
 
2017-10-18 02:58:40 AM  

starsrift: jtown: I've had to handle the finance for the burials of two grandparents and I made sure the bills were paid.  Both funeral directors were very clear about what the cost would be with itemized invoices   I find it hard to believe that the parents requested additional detail on the headstone and nobody told them it would cost more money.  I find it hard to believe that, for nearly year, they didn't get a single notice that there was an outstanding bill.  "What are they going to do?  Repossess his headstone?"

I'm inclined to agree with you but based on how quickly the dude was to backpedal, I'm thinking maybe some paperwork was not correctly filed or mailed.


I think he backpedaled because he realized his action could destroy his business no matter how long he's been trying to collect the debt and how annoying it was to be ignored all this time.  He should have sent a registered letter with an invoice demanding payment and then sued them in small claims court.  But this seemed a lot easier.  "Hey, next time you guys are at the cemetery, grab that headstone.  Then they'll stop ignoring me."
 
2017-10-18 03:03:07 AM  

AquaTatanka: BalugaJoe: Not very Christian.

Most of them aren't.


We had exactly one.

He tried to teach us how to live peacefully, and love each other no matter who we were.

So we killed him.

Slowly.
 
2017-10-18 03:12:37 AM  
Here's a picture of the a**hole:

img.fark.netView Full Size
 
2017-10-18 03:38:36 AM  
damn, when i die just toss me in a ditch somewhere and let the wild animals feast on me,
then go shiat on someones lawn where a nice fertile cannabis seed of some good afgani strain has fallen,
accidentally of course.
some squirrel weed here, red, black, rockeez flying squirl ganga!
and that's mule deer black african mind f*ck over there by the chilean red fox pot!
next we come to the redd foxx stairway 2 heaven white magic tail tips, redux!
 
2017-10-18 03:43:02 AM  
I think where he screwed up was giving them the headstone if they didn't pay for it. If you did that because it was a time of grief for them blah blah blah, then you gave it to them for whatever they paid. To sneak it back later is farked up.

Wanting to get paid is not wrong, that's the business they're in after all. But then they need to make sure they charged them the correct amount. If the customer keeps adding things, how hard is it to say "Sure we can do that, it adds X dollars to the cost"?
 
2017-10-18 04:21:23 AM  
Interesting version. They left out quite a bit of his side of the story.

http://www.wusa9.com/news/community/5-year-olds-grave-marker-reposses​s​ed-by-monument-company/484068896

Reverend Shoaf said he and the family have been in a financial battle for a while.
The family originally ordered a smaller, simpler marker. The next day, they wanted an upgrade, which costs more. Shoaf showed NBC Charlotte the actual invoice for the new marker. He said the family still owes $918 for the monument.

He says, despite phone calls, multiple messages, and promises of payment being delivered, the outstanding balance was never paid. Shoaf said he was conflicted about what to do for a while, but eventually, when he couldn't collect payment, he decided to collect the marker.


The family's side of the story doesn't pass the smell test to me.  I can't see how anyone would just up and remove a child's headstone due to non-payment without contacting them repeatedly prior to repossessing.  It doesn't make ANY sense to do that, no matter if it's headstones or a car.  Think about it.  Getting a check is a helluva lot easier than a repo.

jtown: He should have sent a registered letter with an invoice demanding payment and then sued them in small claims court

Since no charges have been filed against him it wasn't theft, therefore he had to have something in the 'contract' (invoice?) that stipulated if they didn't pay he would repossess, right?  I guess?  I'm wondering what small claims court could do for him.  Have the judge tell him he already had legal recourse?  Or pass a judgment against the people for something they already owe and aren't paying?
 
2017-10-18 04:34:35 AM  
Pay your bills, deadbeats
 
2017-10-18 04:38:29 AM  

NotThatGuyAgain: Interesting version. They left out quite a bit of his side of the story.

http://www.wusa9.com/news/community/5-year-olds-grave-marker-repossess​ed-by-monument-company/484068896

Reverend Shoaf said he and the family have been in a financial battle for a while.
The family originally ordered a smaller, simpler marker. The next day, they wanted an upgrade, which costs more. Shoaf showed NBC Charlotte the actual invoice for the new marker. He said the family still owes $918 for the monument.

He says, despite phone calls, multiple messages, and promises of payment being delivered, the outstanding balance was never paid. Shoaf said he was conflicted about what to do for a while, but eventually, when he couldn't collect payment, he decided to collect the marker.

The family's side of the story doesn't pass the smell test to me.  I can't see how anyone would just up and remove a child's headstone due to non-payment without contacting them repeatedly prior to repossessing.  It doesn't make ANY sense to do that, no matter if it's headstones or a car.  Think about it.  Getting a check is a helluva lot easier than a repo.

jtown: He should have sent a registered letter with an invoice demanding payment and then sued them in small claims court
Since no charges have been filed against him it wasn't theft, therefore he had to have something in the 'contract' (invoice?) that stipulated if they didn't pay he would repossess, right?  I guess?  I'm wondering what small claims court could do for him.  Have the judge tell him he already had legal recourse?  Or pass a judgment against the people for something they already owe and aren't paying?


If he'd done the things I suggested, he wouldn't have had this negative press after repossessing the headstone.  He would have showed the reporter a receipt of delivery for his letter and a judgement from the court.  The reporter would have either dumped the story or written a story about the deadbeats who let their kid's headstone be repossessed (which would have been dumped by the editor).

What you get by taking every reasonable (and documented) step before becoming unreasonable is righteousness.
 
2017-10-18 05:13:50 AM  
DNRTFA

Baptists?
 
2017-10-18 05:55:19 AM  
3Then the accounting department brought to Him a woman caught in arrears. And when they had set her in the midst, 4they said to Him, "Teacher, this woman was caught in arrears, on her child's grave marker. ...
7So when they continued asking Him, He raised Himself up and said to them, "He who is without a clue among you, let him repossess a stone from her first."
-- John 8:3-7, New Managerial Edition
 
2017-10-18 06:06:03 AM  

NotThatGuyAgain: Or pass a judgment against the people for something they already owe and aren't paying?


Yes! There are ways to collect the debt that don't incur the PR farkstorm of taking the marker off a child's gravesite and (in effect) holding it for ransom. If the parents have the money they owe you, you can get it out of them as you would any unsecured debt. If they don't, then taking the marker does you very little good anyway (you can't really flip it the way you could a repo'd car).

/this is assuming that the objective is money, not punishment
//PR Farkstorm is the name of my Caribbean folk metal band
 
2017-10-18 06:35:36 AM  

studebaker hoch: AquaTatanka: BalugaJoe: Not very Christian.

Most of them aren't.

We had exactly one.

He tried to teach us how to live peacefully, and love each other no matter who we were.

So we killed him.

Slowly.


And even that Christian was Jewishia

terrible track record for the faith.
 
2017-10-18 07:12:16 AM  

JulieAzel626: Most funeral directors are just slick car salesmen with darker suits and softer voices.


I concur.  Father passed on.  Went to the funeral home with his widow.  Initially, their "basic" package was around $5000.  By the time the director was done, the bill came to more than $12,000.

"Oh, he liked motorcycles, we can add this Harley Davidson medallion to the casket"
"Oh, he was in the Air Force and Army, we can add their medallion as well"
"His favorite color was blue.  we can upgrade the silk lining from the basic white to blue"
... more stuff I can't remember

Took the widow aside and said "My father wouldn't want any of this".  I got barked down that nothing was too good for him.  At that point I wanted to start hinting at additional add-ons just to raise the bill since she was paying but didn't want to further support that industry by accident.

Mother passed, local Cremation Society.  Nice people.  Not pushy at all.  $1500 and $10 membership fee.
 
2017-10-18 07:14:31 AM  

Bigdogdaddy: Steakzilla: Bigdogdaddy: Actually had this happen.  A nice headstone for my deceased son (an adult, but still).  Went to the grave and the headstone was gone.  Pieces of shiat as far as I was concerned.  They did a good job, but when the bill is over 1k and you are trying to make it right, it seems like a dick move to do that. A letter, notice or email would have probably gotten it straightened out and we cleared it up, but still the wife was to say the least furious and very upset about it.  I guess since he was special needs, we should have made a big tadoo about it.  Oh, and "Christian" doesn't mean you can let your customers be dead beats and not pay their bills.  Still a dick move without taking them to court to try to get it straightened out.

I feel like as long as the owner of the company made contact with the family beforehand I don't really have a problem with it.  I wonder how legal it is though...  When a car is repossessed there is a formal legal process that is followed right?  Is it the same for all items or did this guy just go and take it?

It actually did.  I think we owed like $75 on it and like I said, it was a beautiful granite headstone that had been laser cut.  An email would have taken care of the misunderstanding.  Will never do business with them again and will let everyone know not to either.  It will cost them way more than the $75 in the long run.


Do they rely on repeat business?
 
2017-10-18 07:16:48 AM  
Pay your debts. Period.
No one owes you anything.  You aren't entitled to anything.
Grow up.
 
2017-10-18 08:01:16 AM  
Didn't Poltergeist warn us about moving headstones?
 
2017-10-18 08:29:39 AM  
I was going to joke about him being a pastor for Republican Jesus but I couldn't find reference in the article about the owner being a pastor.

/didn't watch the video because I'm at work
 
2017-10-18 08:38:51 AM  

jtown: I've had to handle the finance for the burials of two grandparents and I made sure the bills were paid.  Both funeral directors were very clear about what the cost would be with itemized invoices   I find it hard to believe that the parents requested additional detail on the headstone and nobody told them it would cost more money.  I find it hard to believe that, for nearly year, they didn't get a single notice that there was an outstanding bill.  "What are they going to do?  Repossess his headstone?"

[img.fark.net image 199x254]


In NC, once a marker has been set, it cannot be legally removed without the instruction of the next of kin or estate, or by court order. Guy committed a felony instead of going to small claims like a sane man.
 
2017-10-18 09:44:39 AM  
So what do you do with a repossessed headstone?  It's not like you can resell it like  a car.
 
2017-10-18 09:46:52 AM  

Bigdogdaddy: A nice headstone for my deceased son (an adult, but still).


I am sorry for your loss.
 
2017-10-18 10:17:41 AM  

jtown: I find it hard to believe that the parents requested additional detail on the headstone and nobody told them it would cost more money.


Um, yeah...the lettering on my ex-husband's headstone (that he shares with his deceased parents, so it's been there for decades) was $1500 alone. It stated his name (with middle initial) and the words "Father - Son".

All the donations from friends and coworkers to help with final expenses covered most of the lettering and the ex's estate made payments for 6 months to cover the balance.  And the paperwork I have is pretty extensive and clear.

Pretty sure I'm supposed to be outraged by this heartlessness of the owner, but I'm not.  And, good on him for fixing it.
 
2017-10-18 10:23:50 AM  

Monkeyfark Ridiculous: NotThatGuyAgain: Or pass a judgment against the people for something they already owe and aren't paying?

Yes! There are ways to collect the debt that don't incur the PR farkstorm of taking the marker off a child's gravesite and (in effect) holding it for ransom. If the parents have the money they owe you, you can get it out of them as you would any unsecured debt. If they don't, then taking the marker does you very little good anyway (you can't really flip it the way you could a repo'd car).

/this is assuming that the objective is money, not punishment
//PR Farkstorm is the name of my Caribbean folk metal band


Once you've removed all of those options, nobody will ever make a headstone (or perform any other service for that matter) without cash up front...end result is punishing all poor people.
 
2017-10-18 11:16:54 AM  

JulieAzel626: The death industry is a horrible industry.

Most funeral directors are just slick car salesmen with darker suits and softer voices.



The only requirement for the business is the ability to up-sell luxury caskets while still looking sad.

/cremation
//ashes in a coffee can
///duct-tape cherry bomb to the can
//light fuse and launch can with a trebuchet
/KA-BOOM! ashes scattered
 
2017-10-18 11:19:44 AM  

studebaker hoch: AquaTatanka: BalugaJoe: Not very Christian.

Most of them aren't.

We had exactly one.

He tried to teach us how to live peacefully, and love each other no matter who we were.

So we killed him.

Slowly.



Jesus was a Jewish Buddhist.
 
2017-10-18 01:37:50 PM  
Subby, in Engrish we call that a 5-year-old.   What you wrote describes a couple that had five children die at the age of one.

Disappointed in the lack of grammar naziing coming from my fellow farkers.  Back in the day it would not have gone this many posts without a good cane shaking...
 
2017-10-18 04:02:01 PM  
This is why most monument dealers require 50% down at time of order and balance due before the monument is set.  Just to avoid these types of situations.
 
2017-10-18 05:07:08 PM  

Cataholic: Monkeyfark Ridiculous: NotThatGuyAgain: Or pass a judgment against the people for something they already owe and aren't paying?

Yes! There are ways to collect the debt that don't incur the PR farkstorm of taking the marker off a child's gravesite and (in effect) holding it for ransom. If the parents have the money they owe you, you can get it out of them as you would any unsecured debt. If they don't, then taking the marker does you very little good anyway (you can't really flip it the way you could a repo'd car).

/this is assuming that the objective is money, not punishment
//PR Farkstorm is the name of my Caribbean folk metal band

Once you've removed all of those options, nobody will ever make a headstone (or perform any other service for that matter) without cash up front...end result is punishing all poor people.



"All of those options"? I'm removing precisely one option: repossession of the headstone. The same methods used to collect every unsecured debt in the world are still available. Those are the ones where you take the guy's *money* rather than a headstone that you can't resell anyway.
 
2017-10-18 07:20:16 PM  

Bigdogdaddy: Oh, and "Christian" doesn't mean you can let your customers be dead beats and not pay their bills.


According to "Christ" in the "Good Book" you are suppose to give away your riches.

//if you're a Christian, I suggest you read your book
 
2017-10-19 02:06:42 AM  

Monkeyfark Ridiculous: Cataholic: Monkeyfark Ridiculous: NotThatGuyAgain: Or pass a judgment against the people for something they already owe and aren't paying?

Yes! There are ways to collect the debt that don't incur the PR farkstorm of taking the marker off a child's gravesite and (in effect) holding it for ransom. If the parents have the money they owe you, you can get it out of them as you would any unsecured debt. If they don't, then taking the marker does you very little good anyway (you can't really flip it the way you could a repo'd car).

/this is assuming that the objective is money, not punishment
//PR Farkstorm is the name of my Caribbean folk metal band

Once you've removed all of those options, nobody will ever make a headstone (or perform any other service for that matter) without cash up front...end result is punishing all poor people.


"All of those options"? I'm removing precisely one option: repossession of the headstone. The same methods used to collect every unsecured debt in the world are still available. Those are the ones where you take the guy's *money* rather than a headstone that you can't resell anyway.


It would seem that NC already removed that option.

I'm wondering why this guy wasn't charged with felony grave desecration.  http://www.ncga.state.nc.us/EnactedLe​g​islation/Statutes/HTML/BySection/Chapt​er_14/GS_14-149.html

/I'm pretty sure a repo isn't "ordinary maintenance" and I'm also pretty sure this guy didn't have a judgment.
 
2017-10-19 02:14:28 AM  

DarkVader: Monkeyfark Ridiculous: Cataholic: Monkeyfark Ridiculous: NotThatGuyAgain: Or pass a judgment against the people for something they already owe and aren't paying?

Yes! There are ways to collect the debt that don't incur the PR farkstorm of taking the marker off a child's gravesite and (in effect) holding it for ransom. If the parents have the money they owe you, you can get it out of them as you would any unsecured debt. If they don't, then taking the marker does you very little good anyway (you can't really flip it the way you could a repo'd car).

/this is assuming that the objective is money, not punishment
//PR Farkstorm is the name of my Caribbean folk metal band

Once you've removed all of those options, nobody will ever make a headstone (or perform any other service for that matter) without cash up front...end result is punishing all poor people.


"All of those options"? I'm removing precisely one option: repossession of the headstone. The same methods used to collect every unsecured debt in the world are still available. Those are the ones where you take the guy's *money* rather than a headstone that you can't resell anyway.

It would seem that NC already removed that option.

I'm wondering why this guy wasn't charged with felony grave desecration.  http://www.ncga.state.nc.us/EnactedLeg​islation/Statutes/HTML/BySection/Chapt​er_14/GS_14-149.html

/I'm pretty sure a repo isn't "ordinary maintenance" and I'm also pretty sure this guy didn't have a judgment.


I'd guess it's because the next-of-kin signed a contract consenting to removal of the marker under certain circumstances.
 
2017-10-19 09:20:28 AM  

Monkeyfark Ridiculous: Cataholic: Monkeyfark Ridiculous: NotThatGuyAgain: Or pass a judgment against the people for something they already owe and aren't paying?

Yes! There are ways to collect the debt that don't incur the PR farkstorm of taking the marker off a child's gravesite and (in effect) holding it for ransom. If the parents have the money they owe you, you can get it out of them as you would any unsecured debt. If they don't, then taking the marker does you very little good anyway (you can't really flip it the way you could a repo'd car).

/this is assuming that the objective is money, not punishment
//PR Farkstorm is the name of my Caribbean folk metal band

Once you've removed all of those options, nobody will ever make a headstone (or perform any other service for that matter) without cash up front...end result is punishing all poor people.


"All of those options"? I'm removing precisely one option: repossession of the headstone. The same methods used to collect every unsecured debt in the world are still available. Those are the ones where you take the guy's *money* rather than a headstone that you can't resell anyway.


By all those options I mean the varying ways in which someone who sells a headstone has a security interest in it (either UCC purchase-money or perhaps an artisan's lien).  I don't know whether or not the stone could be resurfaced but it obviously has more commercial value to the mason than it would to anyone else.  And, unsecured debts are eventually reduced to judgments at which point they become a lien on all property owned by the debtor and you can go take any property you can find and have it sold to satisfy the judgment.  Are you saying the marker would still be off-limits at that point?  Because there's a certain absurdity that the item which is the issue of the dispute is to be totally excluded from any solution.  It's the one item that this particular debtor best knows where to find and how to monetize in order to recoup his loss.
 
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